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------------------------------------
61-79-list Digest Fri, 25 Aug 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 215

In This Issue:
Petersen's Article
Re: Flipped Shackle
Re: Crankshaft & water pump pulleys for FE big block
FW: [Fwd: Fw:  Simple safety test]
Re: Ignition Upgrades
Re: Petersons Article
Re: vehicle inspection
Good Magazine
Re: vehicle inspection
Re: vehicle inspection
Re: sticky king pins
Re: vehicle inspection
Re: Greet this newbie.....
Re: sticky king pins
Re: Power steering feed back..
Re: To Wish
Re: To Wish
Re: Ignition upgrades
Re: Petersons Article
Re: Petersons Article
Re: Stabilizers.....
Re: Power steering feed back..
Re: 351w & 400 crank
For Sale:'79 F-150 S/C 4x4 & 460 kit

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:36:40 -0700
From: scott <scott ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Petersen's Article

>>>>Those guys have always been biased toward Chevy's and Jeeps.  It's          nothing new.  They just don't have
    a clue when it comes to Fords.

They are oblivious to the REAL off road world.
About a month ago I went through the Rubicon with a group of 6 early
Broncos.
Saw 1 ch*vy all weekend.It was left for dead along the trail,along with
a land bruser.Saw a toy*ta pick which had broke the out put shaft off
the the T-case and another one on it's side.
I saw at least 7 je*ps being welded back together,tie rods,drag links,
a axle and frames.One guy broke his frame twice in 2 different places.
I also saw some impressive je*ps.They are the ones that have
aftermarket or heavily reinforced frames,Ford 9" rearends,44 front
axles,NP 435 trans etc.etc.They just have the crampped je*p bodies left.
The Broncos I went with were basicaly lifted and locked with some
sporting winches.They are high quality rigs with alot of time and money
invested,but
they are still Broncos.

The only problems we had were
1 New style BFG A-Ts that would not stay on the rim at 10 psi.15 psi
cured    that
2 Loose hose clamp on a fuel line
3 Bent tire carrier that we straightened with a big rock.
4 Being held up on the trail while the je*ps were being welded
back          together.
As my Bronco owning friends would say " How good can a j*ep be if
putting a ch*vy motor in it is a upgrade?"
If magazine editors would venture out onto a trail now and then,they
might
get a more realistic view of what happens to the almighty je*p when it
is truly put to the test.
I'm thankful for forums like this because now I don't have to rely on
magazines for information.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:31:01 -0700
From: Marv & Marge <ae722 lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Flipped Shackle

"wish" <wish ford-trucks.net> wrote:
> >> Hahahaha, sounds like an old Chrysler with its torsion bar rear suspension
                                                               ^^^^
Then I wrote:
> >Uhhhhh, didn't you mean "front", or did I REALLY miss a few years during the
> >early '70's?  ;-)

Then wish wrote:
> Nope, I really meant rear ... I'm talkin 50's though, the first or second gen
> hemi's ... not the 'cuda's and stuff from the late 60's and early 70's ...
> Just my $.02
> wish

Now I'm gonna write:
Naaaaaahhhhh!  They were ALL rear leaf springs!  FRONT torsion bars, yes.  Started in 1957
if I remember right.  But rears, NOPE!  All leaf springs.  Gonna' have to show me.

(OK, I'll take Azie's word for it.  He's been around forever and would know these
things).

  ;-)

-M-

Marv Miller  mailto:ae722 lafn.org
"Striving to be the person
that my dog thinks I am".



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:17:08 -0500
Subject: Re: 351w & 400 crank
From: Brett L Habben <bhabben juno.com>

Azie,
If you didn't want to cut the counterweights, could you notch the bottoms
of the cylinders?  Or is this just the beginning of the interference
problems on the top side?
Jus' wondering......
Brett
St. Henry's Order of the Immaculate Side Oiler
>
>THE 400 CRANK WILL NOT GO DOWN(SEAT) INTO THE 351W BLOCK.
>It looks as if about .250" will have to be taken off the 400's
counterweights for this to
>happen.  They hit the block at the bottom of the cylinders.
>Azie Magnusson
>Ardmore, Al.
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:10:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Peterson's article
From: Brett L Habben <bhabben juno.com>

Joe,
You didn't also happen to catch the "Mustang's and Ford" mag Stroker
Article's commentary on the FE did you?  They basically said to stay away
due to the parts supply drying up, and to support the arguement thay had
a picture of like 20 FE390 blocks that supposedly they went through
(unsuccessfully) to find a useable core.
I guess if you believe that I should keep my 390 block in a glass shrine
in my living room (sound of monks chanting quietly in the
background..........)
Brett
St. Henry's Order of the Immaculate Side Oiler
>
>Well not sure how many got the new Petersons 4x4 mag..But they give the
>FE motor a kick in the ass for one of the dumbest ideas made...<snip>
>Joe
>68 F-100 FE Proud!

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------------------------------

From: SHill48337 aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:41:58 EDT
Subject: Re: Crankshaft & water pump pulleys for FE big block

In a message dated 8/25/00 11:22:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
danger csolutions.net writes:

<<  After browsing a few web sites, I've been unable to locate a source for
FE pulleys. Does anybody know where to get 3 groove pulleys (crankshaft &
water pump) for the FE big block?

Michael
 >>
Yes, go to any wrecking yard.  If you want pretty ones go to March at
www.marchperf.com.  They have both underdrive and overdrive for any FE
engine, after your figure out which ones you want call Summit and order them.
You will pay around $180 bucks for three pulleys.  Just my opinion.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460

------------------------------

From: "Hogan, Tom" <Tom.Hogan kla-tencor.com>
Subject: FW: [Fwd: Fw:  Simple safety test]
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:08:15 -0700

Since I'm in the middle of building a deck at the moment this was a scream.
The deck is almost finished.  I am about to go to Hancock's and pick up some
more lumber in my 76 F-150 (only FTE content)

Tom H


>
> pollox wrote:
>
> > from the 7th cav list...
> >
> > > Hypothetical situation to test your common sense and
> safety skills:
> > >
> > > 1) You just got off work and are completely exausted, but
> have a big home
> > > maintinance project you've been trying to get to. You
> > >   a. Go to bed. The deck will be there later.
> > >   b. Rush home to get there ahead of the rain clouds
> threatening to spread
> > > water all over the boards you have spent the week sanding.
> > >
> > > 2) You read on the side of the can of deck stain that it
> is incompatible
> > > with the sprayer you plan to use. You
> > >   a. Return to the store and purchase the correct
> sprayer. Always get the
> > > right tool for the job.
> > >   b. Decide to try it anyway. What do manufactuers really
> know about their
> > > products?
> > >
> > > 3) After the screaming run back through the house,
> stripping your clothes
> > > and ruining the carpet and tile on the way to a sink, you
> > >   a. Ditch the sprayer. Obviously you have damaged it
> beyond recovery.
> > >   b. Attempt to force water through the hosing to clean it out.
> > >
> > > 4) After changing your clothes and returning from the
> store with the
> > > correct sprayer, you
> > >   a. Carefully read the enclosed instructions. Safety
> first. A tool used
> > > right does the job right.
> > >   b. glace at the picture and slap that puppy together. Go for it!
> > > Moderation is for monks.
> > >
> > > 5) After cleaning the stain explosion from the side of
> the deck, you
> > >   a) Read the enclosed instructions and try this again,
> well informed.
> > >   b) change some attachments randomly, and go at it again.
> > >
> > > 6) You are not totally exausted, and the deck looks like
> hell. You chose
> > to
> > > a) Relax, take it in stride and go to bed.
> > >   b) Get on line and admit your stupidity with a safety test.
> > >
> > >
> > > The correct answers, are of course, a. the other choices
> will gain you 2
> > > set of ruined clothes, an uneven and oddly colored new
> tan, a change of
> > > hair color, and ruin your watch. As an aside, the safety
> valve popping
> > from
> > > a sprayer will quickly be followed by a high velocity quart of the
> > contents
> > > which will travel fast enough to go though a cotton
> shirt, and will hurt
> > > anything inadvertantly  still left in it's path such as a
> leg, head, right
> > > eye, or watch.
> > >
> > > (name removed to protect the ... innocent?)
> > > the half blind, recently violently and involantary
> returner to the Order
> > of
> > > Flaming Hair, and in the market for a new watch
> >
> > some of the responses were even better....
> >
> > > Congratulations, granddaughter!
> > >
> > > You have just scored very high on the "Real Man" home
> improvement test!
> > >
> > > Proof positive that if some guy wants to be in the Cav,
> it's the women
> > that
> > > set the standard ...
> > >
> > >
> > > At least you still HAVE hair ......(1)
> > >
> > > GPH
> > >
> > > Very sympathetic, but still ROTFLMPLWTAO
> >
> > (1) a reference to her S.O., who revently went crew cut
> after having a large
> > hank of hair caught in a grinder & yanked out...
>

------------------------------

From: "Hogan, Tom" <Tom.Hogan kla-tencor.com>
Subject: Re: Ignition Upgrades
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:08:16 -0700


> Matt,
>
> I use a Mallory Unilite and a Mallory Promaster coil
> and a Holley HP Annihilator multi-spark CD unit PN
> 800-100. It works fine. I prefer the Holley because
> the rev-limit is switch setable, unlike MSD. I really
> prefer the Duraspark cap and rotor to the Mallory
> however, and I even have the Mallory High Energy
> conversion cap, but it gives me trouble in damp cool
> weather. I would recommend keeping the dist. and
> adding the other parts as required. The Holley
> Installation instructions show how to hook up to a
> Duraspark.
>
> Dan lee
> '53 F100
> 400C-4V
>

<Snip prevous post>

Do you have to butcher the Duraspark harness to install the Holly system?

Tom H.

------------------------------

From: "Hogan, Tom" <Tom.Hogan kla-tencor.com>
Subject: Re: Petersons Article
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:08:19 -0700


> Well not sure how many got the new Petersons 4x4 mag..But
> they give the
> FE motor a kick in the ass for one of the dumbest ideas
> made.....F them
> and the mag
> Most likely a Che*y writer..I know the article is made to hit home and
> piss you off,
> and guess what it works :)
> Joe
> 68 F-100 FE Proud!
>

What was the specific complaint?

------------------------------

From: "Deacon" <deconblu ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: vehicle inspection
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:58:23 -0700

From: "John LaGrone"
> So I take Henry in yesterday
> for his inspection, but to a different garage than the one that
flunked Dee
> (the Towncar). This guy didn't even take the gas caps off. He opened
the
> doors to see that I some and that was it. They also had the guidelines
for
> Texas inspections. No where did it mention checking the gas cap to see
if it
> held pressure.

   The Smog Nazi's only care that Smog Inspection Tech's don't let
anyone slide on anything. It's not their concern if they're screwing
their customers. I've had a couple bad experiences at smog stations.

> Needless to say, the other shop has lost my business for good.

   That's about the only recourse you have. For a couple weeks after I
got screwed at one place I had friends go in asking to smog their cars
and I'd pop in saying they screwed me, then gave them a business card
telling them to go there for good service. It got them yelling in Arabic
at me but not much more than that. I was younger then and had time for
such foolishness. Now they just loose my business and anyone else I
tell.
   Glad you found a good place to go! As often as we need to get smog
checks, it's good to find a respectable place to go.


Later!

Deacon

deconblu ford-trucks.com
deconblu earthlink.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.earthlink.net/~deconblu/



------------------------------

From: "Gary L. Perry" <glperry fwi.com>
Subject: Good Magazine
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 21:35:50 -0500

You guys should check out the "Truck Trend" magazine, I thoroughly enjoy it
even tho it
is mostly for newer trucks. They do have occasionally "classic" or 4x4
vehicle too.

G. L. Perry
Huntington, IN
54 Chevy 2-ton (driver)
50 Chevy COE (project)
MM Jet Star 3 Super (tractor)


------------------------------

From: "Matt Schu" <odoa4 hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: vehicle inspection
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:44:17 -0800

IM is just like any other goverment polictics.  Some people care and some
people don't.  And even if they do care, you can always fight politics with
politics.  You should have seen me getting my truck tested at the referree
station.  I provided the tech with a reciept for a stock camshaft and he had
no choice but to pass it, even though I really had this cam in it:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.cranecams.com/cgi-bin/spec.cgi?database=SPECCARD.tab&form=CardSam
p.htm&id=343942

schu

------------------------------

From: "Jason and Kathy" <kendrick mddc.com>
Subject: Re: vehicle inspection
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:29:48 -0500


----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Schu <odoa4 hotmail.com>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 7:44 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: vehicle inspection


> IM is just like any other goverment polictics.  Some people care and some
> people don't.  And even if they do care, you can always fight politics
with
> politics.  You should have seen me getting my truck tested at the referree
> station.  I provided the tech with a reciept for a stock camshaft and he
had
> no choice but to pass it, even though I really had this cam in it:
>
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.cranecams.com/cgi-bin/spec.cgi?database=SPECCARD.tab&form=CardSam
p.htm&id=343942

>
> schu
> =============================================================
> To  unsubscribe:   www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.
>


------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" <flash1 alltel.net>
Subject: Re: sticky king pins
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:40:07 -0400

However, I was
> going to try heating the pin area top and bottom to see if I could free
them
> up.  By heating I don't mean cherry red but enough to get old, hard grease
> to flow. Heard that this does work. Anybody ever tried this and any
caveats?
> =============================================================
hi
years ago we used to heat them up like that if they didnt want to take the
grease so i guess it wouldnt hurt to try it myself tho when you do grease
them try the new slick 50 grease ive had good results with it but even
better results with some stuff called HYDROTEX grease
gordon


------------------------------

From: "Jason and Kathy" <kendrick mddc.com>
Subject: Re: vehicle inspection
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:43:27 -0500

Sorry about the repeat! The fingers were in overdrive, and the brain was
looking for second!
Jason


------------------------------

From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" <tim-pam williams-net.com>
Subject: Re: Greet this newbie.....
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:10:57 -0400

welcome to the list. we are all family here.ask any question you want to
about Ford Trucks.
-----Original Message-----
From: Southerland, Rich <rsouther alldata.com>
To: '61-79-list ford-trucks.com' <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Date: Friday, August 25, 2000 1:16 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: Greet this newbie.....


>I had a similar problem with my '77 E150 (wandered and would follow grooves
>in the road).  Front end checked out all the way.  Added a steering
>stabilizer, was like night and day.  One of the best $40 I've spent on the
>truck...
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: daves8 juno.com [mailto:daves8 juno.com]
>Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 10:07 AM
>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>Cc: colman76 hotmail.com
>Subject: [61-79-list] Re: Greet this newbie.....
>
>
>Thanks, Marty...
>
>The radius arm bushings have been replaced.  I think I'm going to take a
>close look at making sure the king pins are free.  What I'd really like
>to do is reduce the steering assist and get more road feel.  Perhaps a
>different pump with a relief valve set at a lower pressure?
>
>Dave
>
>On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:53:55 GMT "MARTY COLMAN" <colman76 hotmail.com>
>writes:
>Dave wrote:.....> >The truck still wanders around.  The steering is vague
>and much too light for my tastes.
>>
>Marty answered:.....Sounds like you have covered most everything.  I only
>have one thought to add...
>> Have the radius arm bushings ever been replaced?  If these are worn
>they will give the front some extra play....
>
>_
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>Please remove this footer when replying.
>


------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" <gpeters3 visteon.com>
Subject: Re: sticky king pins
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:39:38 -0400

If you know they are bronze bushings you can get them pretty hot but there
are rubber seals in the top and bottom too that can be damaged depending on
what kit was used last time.  If you concentrate the heat in the I beam end
area and let it flow into the pin you will do less damage to the bushings
and seals but you should also have someone move the steering back and forth
as you heat it to help distribute the heat as well.

The key is to get them loose enough to move with one finger with tie rods
removed.  Even when a little loose they will track perfectly.  My last set
was reamed over size by a newbie mechanic but works just fine :-)  The truck
sits a lot now so I did have to heat it up once to get it to track well last
time I used it.  Once loosened up, and while still hot, I pumped some new
grease into it.  After it cools down, grease it again and you should be good
to go.

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>RE: wandering truck.

>going to try heating the pin area top and bottom to see if I
>could free them
>up.

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" <gpeters3 visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Power steering feed back..
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:04:01 -0400

That's an interesting comment Tom :-)  I put a smaller one on my bronco
because of the larger tires and way too much feed back :-)  BTW, If you ever
work on these pulleys, get the proper puller and use the thrust bearing that
comes with it, saves a lot of grief.

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>The only way I can think of to improve feedback over a
>properly operating
>stock system would be to put a larger pully on the pump to
>slow it down.

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" <gpeters3 visteon.com>
Subject: Re: To Wish
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:16:14 -0400

Wire ties are SO MUCH more elegant! :-)  Use 'em all a time :-)  My bronco
(and f150 come to think of it) grill is held on with them :-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>> Are wire-ties kinda like the modern bailing wire and
>duct-tape. Thought you
>> were
>> more caring mechanic than that kinda work.
>
>I hadn't thought about the baling wire paradigm, but I believe
>you have hit
>on a modern truth here. Personally, I don't see any problem
>with repairs of
>this nature

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" <gpeters3 visteon.com>
Subject: Re: To Wish
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:17:48 -0400

And wire ties don't cause any unexpected electrical difficulties either
which we can sometimes attribute to wire :-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>Hahahaha, actually the cool thing is it doesn't do ANY
>permanent damage, so
>when I get a real stereo to put in there I still have
>everything I started with

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:03:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Michael (Cut me and I'll bleed FORD Blue) Whittington" <broncoman85 excite.com>
Subject: Re: Ignition upgrades

Hey Matt I'm with Dan Lee I'm running an MSD Ignition(Pro Billit dist,6AL
box and Adj. timing control) It is a head ache changing the rpm chips, not
neccessarily changing but having to keep up with them, I'm thinking of going
to the adj. add on they have for this. Just another part to buy when holley
has the adj. built in.

Whit
77 F250 4X4 20 inchs lift 800 horse 429 44 Boggers
75 F100 460
78 Bronco 11 inchs lift stock 351M 44 Gumbos
69 F100 302
76 F250 Dual wheels 390 Tow Truck
85 Bronco 302





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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:07:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Michael (Cut me and I'll bleed FORD Blue) Whittington" <broncoman85 excite.com>
Subject: Re: Petersons Article

Yeah Darrel kind of makes you think they should read they're own mag huh?
Whit
77 F250 4X4 20 inchs lift 800 horse 429 44 Boggers
75 F100 460
78 Bronco 11 inchs lift stock 351M 44 Gumbos
69 F100 302
76 F250 Dual wheels 390 Tow Truck
85 Bronco 302





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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:07:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Michael (Cut me and I'll bleed FORD Blue) Whittington" <broncoman85 excite.com>
Subject: Re: Petersons Article

Yeah Darrel kind of makes you think they should read their own mag huh?
Whit
77 F250 4X4 20 inchs lift 800 horse 429 44 Boggers
75 F100 460
78 Bronco 11 inchs lift stock 351M 44 Gumbos
69 F100 302
76 F250 Dual wheels 390 Tow Truck
85 Bronco 302





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------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" <gpeters3 visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Stabilizers.....
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:56:14 -0400

I've been running my bronco with no stabilizer since I redid the front end
with no ill effects until just recently.  There is a RR track on one road I
travel that gave it fits and the old "head shake" returned to haunt me.  I
will be installing dual, head to head stabilizers soon.  With the bronco I
don't expect any trouble with steering due to this but with a van I built,
due to sticky ball joints and worn everything I installed a stabilizer which
ended the head shake but caused a vagueness in the tracking, just enough to
be troublesome but still not as bad as some 2wd trucks with seized king
pins.

My point here is that it is possible to "Over stabilize" a front end so that
it does the same thing as sticky king pins.

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>I had a similar problem with my '77 E150 (wandered and would
>follow grooves
>in the road).  Front end checked out all the way.  Added a steering
>stabilizer, was like night and day.  One of the best $40 I've
>spent on the
>truck...

------------------------------

From: "Jason and Kathy" <kendrick mddc.com>
Subject: Re: Power steering feed back..
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:57:05 -0500

I seem to remember a magazine article that dealt with this issue. I can't
remember if it was Mustangs&Muscle Fords, or Super Ford. They built a
hydraulic line that formed a "T" in the lines. One side was hooked to the
high pressure line, and the other to the return line. They used an inline
valve of some sort that would allow a certain amount of high pressure fluid
to bypass the steering gear, and this improved feedback at the wheel. It
would certainly seem easier to install a larger pulley, IMHO.
Jason Kendrick

> >The only way I can think of to improve feedback over a
> >properly operating
> >stock system would be to put a larger pully on the pump to
> >slow it down.
> =============================================================



------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:30:45 -0700
From: dave Prasse <burgess4 gte.net>
Subject: Re: 351w & 400 crank



James Oxley wrote:
>
>
>  What rods/pistons do you use with it?

It does not mention the rod/piston combo in the article.
The articles main focus is the Probe 377.

It does mention that the block needs some clearancing work to run
the 400 crank in the 351W block.

dPrasse

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 23:08:56 -0400
From: frenz.6 osu.edu (Dale Frenz)
Subject: For Sale:'79 F-150 S/C 4x4 & 460 kit

For Sale:

1979 F-150 XLT Supercab 4x4
Approx: 109,000 Miles

Body is decent. Not "spotless" by any means, but good. Bed floor is the usual.
(Had been treated with "Z-bart" undercoating at some point)

351M V-8
New main bearing installed, new oil pump, new fuel pump.
Runs strong.

C-6 Automatic

Front and Rear leaf springs

31" tires, 70% tread

New brake pads, shoes, front calipers, and rear wheel cylinders

(Misc. extra parts to go too. Sliding rear window, tail lights, etc.)

460 conversion "KIT" for your installation project Includes:
....


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