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Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:59:13 -0400 (EDT)
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61-79-list Digest Wed, 23 Aug 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 210

In This Issue:
Re: unusual truck configuration ?
Re: Headers
351M - Distributor rotor doesn't turn
Re: 351M - Distributor rotor doesn't turn
Re: 351M - Distributor rotor doesn't turn
Re: 460 4X4
Re: Headers
Re: 351M headers for a 78 Bronco
Re: 351M Headers for '78 Bronco
Re: Headers
Re: Highboy ID
Re: 351M - Distributor rotor doesn't turn
Re: 351M headers for a 78 Bronco
Bolt patterns
460 into 400 '78 4X4
Web site Bob
Mustangs vs. Trucks
NUKE GM
Re: Mustangs vs. Trucks
400M crank into 351W
Re: bigger tires
Re: Hi Boy question
Michael...  some questions
Re: Engine
Re: 400M crank into 351W

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:18:36 -0400
From: David Wadson <wadsond air.on.ca>
Subject: Re: unusual truck configuration ?

>Ford dealers in my locale want $20 for the side-mount tube (#E1TZ-6754-C) and
>$12 for the dipstick (#E2UZ-6750-A).  There are also several Ford dealers
>in the
>US that sells parts over the internet.  I'd bet there are one or two online
>parts depts that'll sell 'em even cheaper than I can get 'em locally.  Even w/
>shipping, I think you could beat $60 CDN buying from a US dealer.  Maybe the
>tax/import duty is where they'd get ya??

Actually, it's the exchange rate on the Canadian dollar that hurts...$20 US
equals about $30 Canadian. When you add in all the shipping and any
duty...it's probably about the same. I've temporarily fixed it with a
length of brake line in the meantime but I'll eventually fix it properly. I
guess providing that the pan would clear the axle, I could switch to a
front mount dipstick. But then I may consider going to a different engine
depending on what gas prices do all winter...


David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
"PS1" - 79 F100 ...ground into a million pieces.
"PS2" - 78 F100 ...currently alive and kicking.
"PS3" - 79 F150 4x4 ...now what have I gotten myself into...
Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:22:00 -0400
From: David Wadson <wadsond air.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Headers

>> It makes sense to me that they'd fit both 4WD bronco and F-150 but that
>> doesn't mean the manufacturer will support the headers in that application
>> if they don't spec 'em that way.
>
>This is a good point. Going the other way, something might fit a 2wd that is
>advertised for a 4x4, but can't be advertised for a 2wd because of emission
>laws. That's usually where the little "For off road use only" tag sneaks in.

The headers are probably not swappable between 2 and 4WD vehicles do to the
differences in the cross-members. The are significantly different due to
the transfer case. And then you get into all the difficulties routing the
headers around a front driveshaft or an automatic transmission.

...which leads me to...anyone know of headers that fit an F150 4x4 351M
with a C6 automatic? My truck is too quiet...one of my friends has
suggested punching holes in my muffler so he can hear me coming. :-)


David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
"PS1" - 79 F100 ...ground into a million pieces.
"PS2" - 78 F100 ...currently alive and kicking.
"PS3" - 79 F150 4x4 ...now what have I gotten myself into...
Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 03:57:50 -0400
From: David Wadson <wadsond air.on.ca>
Subject: 351M - Distributor rotor doesn't turn

Well, the distributor and motor in question are in a 79 Lincoln aka "The
Pimp-Mobile" (gold paint, plush interior, tinted windows, etc.) we're using
parts off of 73-79 trucks and this problem could very well happen to my
truck! :-)

After much fruitless hunting around I think we've traced the inability to
fire up the engine to a lack of spark at the plugs. We get a spark from the
coil but none right at the plug and have tried replacing the ignition
module. We found out in the process that some ignition modules have three
plugs coming off them instead of 2. Had never seen that before but upon
checking out the handy-dandy factory shop manuals, we found out that some
models of trucks (and cars) have a barometric switch that adjusts the
timing (via the module) based upon your altitude. So if you're ever taking
your 4x4, literally, up a mountain, you should get one of those! However,
you can replace the 3-plug module with a 2-plug module without any apparent
problems.

Anyways, after mucking around with the module and the "geez I hope I don't
electrocute myself" grounding out the coil and sparkplug wires" to check
for spark, we realized the plugs aren't sparking.  This kind of perplexed
us that evening but given that we were starting to get chewed alive by
mosquitos, we left it for the night. Further investigation with the cap off
revealed that the rotor does not turn while cranking the engine, hence no
spark. Examination of the distributor shows that it can be turned by hand
when out of the engine. Now we could understand something in there breaking
- timing chain, distributor shaft, camshaft, etc. - but the engine sounds
fine while cranking. Likely culprit would seem to be the timing chain but
how the heck could you break a timing chain and not hear the pieces
crunching around in there when you turn the engine over - there's just not
that much room in there!

Any ideas before we just start ripping the front of the block apart?


David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
"PS1" - 79 F100 ...ground into a million pieces.
"PS2" - 78 F100 ...currently alive and kicking.
"PS3" - 79 F150 4x4 ...now what have I gotten myself into...
Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada



------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" <flash1 alltel.net>
Subject: Re: 351M - Distributor rotor doesn't turn
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 04:27:03 -0400


> how the heck could you break a timing chain and not hear the pieces
> crunching around in there when you turn the engine over - there's just not
> that much room in there!
> David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
=============================================================
hi dave
ive never had a timing chain break and could hear the pieces rattling around
if the dist.  turns outside of the engine but not when its installed its
gotta be the timing chain or gears IF you do replace it use the cast iron
cam gear its allot more durable than the oem one it came with
gordon


------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" <gpeters3 visteon.com>
Subject: Re: 351M - Distributor rotor doesn't turn
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 06:24:56 -0400

Sheared Gear roll pin.  The gear is pressed on but some are not very tight
and this gear has to drive the oil pump as well.  Check the oil pump to see
if it will turn and check the pump shaft that it is not twisted.  If this is
a 335 engine type, that is 351M or 400 then this is very likely what has
happened because the oil pump has seized.

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>Well, the distributor and motor in question are in a 79
>Lincoln aka "The

>revealed that the rotor does not turn while cranking the
>engine, hence no
>spark. Examination of the distributor shows that it can be
>turned by hand
>when out of the engine. Now we could understand something in

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" <gpeters3 visteon.com>
Subject: Re: 460 4X4
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 06:34:49 -0400

L&L and Advance Adapters both have mounts for conversion, about $99/pr :-)
If your 4x4 has stock frame brackets their mounts will adapt the engine
block to them.

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>Hi all,
>I'm in the midst of trying to replace the 400 in my 78 F-250
>4X4 with a 460
>and can't find any engine-to-frame mounting brackets.  We have

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" <gpeters3 visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Headers
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:25:11 -0400

There are several companies who make tri-Y headers for our trucks and these
can also do custom headers.  Stan's is one I can think of right now but
there are others as well.

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>>What do you all have
>>for headers on your '78-'79 Broncos with 351M/400 engines?  TIA!
>
>I got a set of Hedman's on my truck.  The only other set of
>headers I've
>seen for our trucks is a set of Dynomax headers.  I saw them

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 05:01:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Finn <ecfinn yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 351M headers for a 78 Bronco

Dan,

My understanding was the the 351M and 351C heads were identical.  (Of
course I may just be showing my ignorance here...)  In this case headers
for a 351C would mount up fine to a 351M.  Of course I contacted Sanderson
and Thorley about their headers but they both said no dice on getting
headers for my Bronco.  :-(  Thanks for the advice though.  I'll keep
digging.  Actually at this point in time I'm not really looking to rebuild
the motor since I need the Bronco running again in a couple months and
I've never rebuilt one.  ;-)  Probably not a good time to try my first
when I'm on a deadline afterall.

Later,

Eric Finn
'78 Bronco "The Beast" (Project still in progress)

--- Dan Lee <danlee_58 yahoo.com> wrote:
> Eric,
> My answer is to put 4V Cleveland heads on it and get
> Sanderson headers (the ones that the right hand side
> goes above the starter). While you are at it you could
> put flattop pistons and a 400 crank in it.
>
> Dan Lee
> '53 F100
> 400C-4V


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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 05:02:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Finn <ecfinn yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 351M Headers for '78 Bronco

Ok looks like Flowtech is off the list?  Thanks George and Tim for the
heads-up.  I appreciate it.

Later,
Eric Finn
'78 Bronco "The Beast" (Project still in progress)

--- Tim and Pam Allgire <tim-pam williams-net.com> wrote:
> I agree with him on the Flowtech Headers.I ordered a set for my 94 F-150
> with a 302 in it & they did not even come close to fitting. Had to send
> them
> back & got my money back.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GMontgo930 aol.com <GMontgo930 aol.com>
> To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
> Date: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 9:54 PM
> Subject: [61-79-list] Re: 351M Headers for '78 Bronco
>
> >I'd stay away from teh Flowtech's. I got a set on mine, and Im not
> crazy
> >about the fit, quality (holes in the welds NEW!), or the funky path
> needed
> on
> >the Dr side pipe. On the plus side they were relativly inexpensive
> (read
> >cheap), and I got what I paid for, kinda sorta anyway!
> >
> >George M in Fl.


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 05:11:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Finn <ecfinn yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Headers

Gary,

Great to have you back!  Your comments confuse me however.  I contacted
both Thorley and Sanderson regarding headers for our trucks and they both
said "no dice".  I also looked at Stan's and they don't have anything
listed for this application either.  Could you possibly expand upon this
statement a little bit with some specific companies that make them?  So
far I've looked at the following companies: Thorley, Hedman, JBA,
Sanderson, Gibson, Hooker, Dynomax, Flowtech, Edelbrock, Stans, and
Flowmaster.  Am I missing any that you know of?  The only ones that listed
an application for my bronco were Flowtech, Hedman, Hooker, and Dynomax
and I've already ruled out Flowtech.  I'm guessing that custom headers
would be too pricy for me right now but feel free to prove me wrong.  ;-)

At this point I'm seriously considering the Dynomax ceramic coated headers
from Jeg's.  They are only $206 delivered and they are Jet-Hot coated
inside and out.

Later,

Eric Finn
'78 Bronco "The Beast" (Project still in progress)

--- "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" <gpeters3 visteon.com> wrote:
> There are several companies who make tri-Y headers for our trucks and
> these
> can also do custom headers.  Stan's is one I can think of right now but
> there are others as well.
>
> --
> Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
> 78 Bronco Loving, Gary
> --
>
> >>What do you all have
> >>for headers on your '78-'79 Broncos with 351M/400 engines?  TIA!
> >
> >I got a set of Hedman's on my truck.  The only other set of
> >headers I've
> >seen for our trucks is a set of Dynomax headers.  I saw them


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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------------------------------

From: Rubberducky23 webtv.net (Danny Ling)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:22:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Highboy ID

the easiest and quickest way is to look for the power assisted steering.
(aka slave cyl steering).  highboys also had a divoriced mounted NP205
Tcase, the front springs are a 6 leaf spring pack 3 inches wide while
the rear are a 9 leaf pack 2 1/4 inches wide. The highboys also have 2
crossmembers that travel under the transmissions while non highboys only
have one. also when veiwed from the front highboys have a crossmember
with a 1/2 inch hole (guessing) in the middle of it that is visible just
behind and below the front bumper... non highboys this crossmember was
relocated upward to where it is not visible anymore. Highboys also the
only light truck offered in great quantities that came equipped with the
large external locking front hubs.... (the ones that take the monster
3/8s allen wrench to disassemble)....

Laters, Danny Ling


------------------------------

From: TBeeee aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:28:24 EDT
Subject: Re: 351M - Distributor rotor doesn't turn

Gary affirmatively diagnosed:
<<Sheared Gear roll pin. >>

Can't tell you how many times I installed and
removed a distributor in a 400 (notice I did not include an "M" before I
realized it was a sheared pin.  I couldn't make the gear spin by hand, but
sure enough when installed it did.

Stock Man
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://hometown.aol.com/tbeeee


------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" <gpeters3 visteon.com>
Subject: Re: 351M headers for a 78 Bronco
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:36:57 -0400

The 351C has a lower deck height so the tubes have to be bent differently to
fit the frame etc..  The 4v cleveland has much larger ports so requires a
totally different header setup.  The 2v is the same as the 351/400
essentially.

I haven't personally checked into it but I understood the Stan's headers and
Sanderson's would work on 460 applications.  Maybe the stock applications
are not available.  The 335 series is not a popular platform for performance
so is probably not on the list in most performance companies.  I would
venture to guess that custom headers would be somewhat more expensive.

Cheap headers will get the gases out as well as the expensive ones if you do
your homework.  I bought cheap Walker headers for my pickup and wrapped them
with fiberglass wrap.  They didn't do a thing for the power I can tell but
they look and sound cool :-)  The advantage of the tri-Y headers is that
they get the pulses closer to a perfect syncapation so the torque band gets
wider toward the bottom end but still has plenty of top end.  I guess I
should have been more careful in the way I worded my post.  I'm used to 460
swap discussions :-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>Dan,
>
>My understanding was the the 351M and 351C heads were identical.  (Of

------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Bolt patterns
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:35:32 -0500


Alex C. rites:  >>I recently got a great deal on a t-10 sideloader (it was practically
given to me) with some other stuff for a '63 390.  Or so I thought.  When I
got it home it had the narrow bolt pattern on the case like a small
block--it would not fit to my eared 390 bellhousing.  a knowledgeable friend
is convinced (but I'm skeptical) that the transmission is only for 406/427
hi-po engines, and is worth $$.  I didn't think that 406/427 had a unique
bolt pattern, is that the case?<<

The very early('58 thru say around '63) manuals were a narrow pattern.  In '65
(or thereabouts) Ford started having both patterns(wide and narrow) on the transmissions
but as far as I know only one of the patterns on the bellhousing(either narrow or wide).  Don't
know their reasoning, but this kinda coincides with the introduction of the all syncronized
3 speed manual transmissions introduction and I believe all of them have the wide pattern.

I have a top loader out in my garage that has both patterns in it.  I also have an early T10
(side loader as you call it) that has only the narrow pattern.  All you need is the correct
bellhousing to make it work(I think).

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: 460 into 400 '78 4X4
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:49:57 -0500


Tim in Ankorage writes:  >>Does anyone know if there is a
conversion kit that will allow a 460 to sit on the 400's supports?<<

There are no factory '78 4X4's with 460's.  You have to buy aftermarket motor mounts, and L&L is the only place I know of.  They are in Dallas, Texas and very proud of their stuff to make the conversion you are doing($$).  I am satisfied with mine however.


Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 06:06:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Michael (Cut me and I'll bleed FORD Blue) Whittington" <broncoman85 excite.com>
Subject: Web site Bob

LOL Not yet hell I'm still just learning to use this computer. I'm usually
to busy at work or working on all those toys to do more than check email.
I've got the 77 down right now had the heads shaved for compression and
ported the heads some more along with going to roller rockers(to much cam
for the stockers). Are you lifting a Bronco? If you are and are a decent
hand with a welder, there's a cheap way to get an extra 3 and a half inchs
of lift by flipping the rear spring shackles and moving your front coil
spring towers down on the frame. The only thing is you've got to modify the
track bar bracket by moving it down too. I used these mods. and 4 inchs of
susp. lift along with 3 body. Be real careful what you wish for tho, One-the
law hates it (and the 77, of course it pro. doesn't help that its got 35
foot flamethrowers on it)[no joke.....35 feet out each side.....gee ya think
I like my flamethrowers?] Two-with half ton componets and these tires I go
through axles and joints like heck....course I tend to treat it like Darrel
does Tweety ...abuse.....abuse .....abuse!!! And Three-it aint exactly
something you'd want to drive everyday. It's a handful!!!!!
Oh, Ken sorry for the long message, but.....I tend to get going,lol.

Whit

77 F250 4X4 20 inchs lift 800 horse 429 44 Boggers
75 F100 460
78 Bronco 11 inchs lift stock 351M 44 Gumbos
69 F100 302
76 F250 Dual wheels 390 Tow Truck
85 Bronco 302





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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:16:24 -0500
From: John Strauss <jstrauss inetport.com>
Subject: Mustangs vs. Trucks

>The other thing is there are probably
>just as many or more Mustangs in the world than Ford Trucks, so you get ALL
>kinds ...
>
Uh, no, there is no way that is correct.  I bet Ford has sold 10 times as
many trucks than they have Mustangs.  Mustangs have only been around since
'66 but Ford has been making the F-Series since, what, '46?  The Ford
F-Series has been the best selling VEHICLE IN THE WORLD for the past 10
years or so - the Mustang is not even in the top 20.
  _
_| ~~.  John Strauss
\, *_}  jstrauss inetport.com
  \(    Texas Fight!


------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: NUKE GM
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:34:24 -0500


Ox writes:  >>Is this anyone we know??? :-)

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.blueovalnews.com/

See http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.blueovalnews.com, 3rd story down "Is this Heaven? No,
it's Mustang Alley" (picture at bottom)

Stu!!  Did you not "Register" your Call sign???

Looks as if someone else thinks as you do.. Dang!!!  That is scarey...

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:42:03 -0400
From: Ken Payne <kpayne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: Mustangs vs. Trucks

At 09:16 AM 8/23/00, you wrote:
>>The other thing is there are probably
>>just as many or more Mustangs in the world than Ford Trucks, so you get ALL
>>kinds ...
>>
>Uh, no, there is no way that is correct.  I bet Ford has sold 10 times as
>many trucks than they have Mustangs.  Mustangs have only been around since
>'66 but Ford has been making the F-Series since, what, '46?  The Ford
>F-Series has been the best selling VEHICLE IN THE WORLD for the past 10
>years or so - the Mustang is not even in the top 20.

Just a minor correction.  The Mustang started with year model 1964 and 1/2.
:-)  On the point of selling numbers, you are very correct.  I wonder how
Toyota can claim that the Corolla is #1? They even bragged how they outsold
the Model T but forgot to mention they did it in twice as much time to a
population 4 times larger!

Ken


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:35:57 -0500
Subject: Re: NUKE GM
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> Is this anyone we know??? :-)
>
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.blueovalnews.com/
>
> See http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.blueovalnews.com, 3rd story down "Is this Heaven? No,
> it's Mustang Alley" (picture at bottom)

Couldn't be Stu or the plates would be from Tennessee. ;-) (and on a Ford
truck, of course!)


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:44:51 -0500
Subject: Re: 351M - Distributor rotor doesn't turn
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

>  Likely culprit would seem to be the timing chain but
> how the heck could you break a timing chain and not hear the pieces
> crunching around in there when you turn the engine over - there's just not
> that much room in there!

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your diagnosis, but if they are typical
timing chain set, the cam gear is plastic molded to aluminum. I have
silently destroyed several on sb chebbies.

Maybe you could pull the fuel pump off and try to determine from the
eccentric if the cam shaft is turning?

I'll vote for the sheared pin problem over the destroyed timing set.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:56:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Kaczmar <biertest-r excite.com>
Subject: 400M crank into 351W

This is a pretty common swap. The thing is that it entails quite a bit of
machining. The 400M crank is based off of the Cleveland design, and the
mains are Huge compared to the 351W. I think almost .25" has to be removed,
if not more to make the main fit.

a friend of mine at Ford was considering using this crank on a 351W project
for his Bronco, but once he figured the machining cost, i.e. cutting the
mains, fluxing, and rebalancing, he was looking at a less than $100
difference to getting a stroker crank to start with. I'll poke his brain as
to where he found a commercially available stroker crank.

Michael Kaczmar
53 and 70 F-100's





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------------------------------

From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: Re: bigger tires
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:03:58 -0700 (PDT)

gordon wrote:
> i have 33 x 10:50 15s on my f 100 it looks pretty good and sets up
> just about like a stock 4 x 4 does i use factory rims tho

I want to switch to 33x10.50 from the 33x12.50's that came with my
truck.  Since it is a new size, I haven't yet seen a truck with them
on it.  Is your suspension stock height?  You don't have any fit
problems with those tall tires?  Do you have a picture of your truck
that I can look at?

If anyone in my area wants 15x10 wheels (5lug) with 33x12.50's, I am
looking to trade them for the right set of 15x8 or maybe even 15x7
aluminum wheels.  I am definetely not willing to ship them though.

And BTW, to the original poster, 33x12.50's do not fit on a stock
suspended F-100. :(


Mark in Southwest Washington
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacifier.com/~draco/Truck.html
--
'74 F-100 Ranger XLT 4X4
in digest mode


------------------------------

From: Matt Senn <msenn avistacom.net>
Subject: Re: Hi Boy question
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:12:04 -0700

here are some pics of my highboy if you're interested in visual aids -->
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.chaoticdelusions.com/truck



-----Original Message-----
From: Greg [mailto:greg gregster.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 10:03 PM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [61-79-list] Hi Boy question


To the list

What are some features of the Hi Boys that distinquish them from regular
4x4's? I'd like to know what to look for when I'm out "shopping".

TIA
Gregster
'77 F-250 Explorer 4x4

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From: "Bob" <xavetarx home.com>
Subject: Michael...  some questions
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:25:46 -0400

Actually, I've lifted my 79 Bronco about 8 inches already.  I'd go higher,
but I also use it on the road a few days a week.  (it's a pain to get it
passed as is) Thanks for the advice on getting an extra 3 inches though.
I'm only 21 and could be called a weekend warrior when it comes to
mechanics.  I'd love to rebuild an engine, however.  I actually have a 460
sitting in front of my trucks parking spot right now.  I've been on the list
for some time now, and have been gaining infinite knowledge on the process
of the swap of a 460 into a halt-ton 79.  Before I did the swap, I'd like to
have a running engine to put in there mind you.  (preferably one that will
rip apart the C6 a couple weeks after I put it in, if you know what I mean)
That's where I've come to the summation that your 77 engine is perfect.  If
you don't mind me asking, how did you get so much power out of it?  I'd
"like" to get at least/around half that much out of my 460.  (key word
"like")  I now figure I'll get to it NEXT (grrr) summer, and have quite some
time to acquire all the necessary parts.  I contacted Holley on the matter
(because I have a 750 holley duel feed) to see what they recommend for the
cam/intake.  I tried to put the 750 on the 400, but I couldn't get it to run
(at all, basically).  Gees, I'm really rambling here myself, but...  I guess
I'm asking for any suggestions you have for me in reference to getting a bit
of horsepower with the fact in mind that I'm fairly knowledgeable, but still
young and inexperienced.

Thanks,

-bob-

-----Original Message-----
From: 61-79-list-bounce ford-trucks.com
[mailto:61-79-list-bounce ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of Michael (Cut me
and I'll bleed FORD Blue) Whittington
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 9:07 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [61-79-list] Web site Bob


LOL Not yet hell I'm still just learning to use this computer. I'm usually
to busy at work or working on all those toys to do more than check email.
I've got the 77 down right now had the heads shaved for compression and
ported the heads some more along with going to roller rockers(to much cam
for the stockers). Are you lifting a Bronco? If you are and are a decent
hand with a welder, there's a cheap way to get an extra 3 and a half inchs
of lift by flipping the rear spring shackles and moving your front coil
spring towers down on the frame. The only thing is you've got to modify the
track bar bracket by moving it down too. I used these mods. and 4 inchs of
susp. lift along with 3 body. Be real careful what you wish for tho, One-the
law hates it (and the 77, of course it pro. doesn't help that its got 35
foot flamethrowers on it)[no joke.....35 feet out each side.....gee ya think
I like my flamethrowers?] Two-with half ton componets and these tires I go
through axles and joints like heck....course I tend to treat it like Darrel
does Tweety ...abuse.....abuse .....abuse!!! And Three-it aint exactly
something you'd want to drive everyday. It's a handful!!!!!
Oh, Ken sorry for the long message, but.....I tend to get going,lol.

Whit

77 F250 4X4 20 inchs lift 800 horse 429 44 Boggers
75 F100 460
78 Bronco 11 inchs lift stock 351M 44 Gumbos
69 F100 302
76 F250 Dual wheels 390 Tow Truck
85 Bronco 302


------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:51:36 GMT
Subject: Re: Engine


>>>The 352 and 360 share the crank and long rods (to me these are small and

>>>weak) the bore was the difference.
>>>
>>
>>Pull them out and check their numbers, you never know what Ford was trying

>to
>>get rid of in some of those later model motors...
>
>
>Check the numbers on what??  The rods or the crank??  I know the 352 and 360

>share the same rod and crank.
>

Sorry I meant hte rods, you never know, you might find a nice strong rod from
a hi-po 352 or something that they were trying to use up :)

>Every part of the exchange can be debated individually and research must be

>done to insure that the rotating mass will fit and work in any particular
>rebuild situation.

I agree completely, there's always running changes and just plain factory screw
ups that will always make a general rule look like swiss cheese ... we've got
a 69 Mustang that my mom bought new sitting in the garage, its missing one of
its 351 emblems on the pass. side, never had it when it left the factory, so
there's even room for the drunk worker on the line to really screw things up
...

>P.S.-both of my 360's have slipper skirts on the pistons.  Both are original

>bores so I'm assuming they are original to the engine.
>

Cool, guess we know that you can't always tell from the skirts then, but if
it has a full one then you know its a 360/352, if its partial it can go either
way ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "Jason Derra" <derrar internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: 400M crank into 351W
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:06:47 -0700

The journal sizes are the same from the 400 and the 351W.  There is no
machining needed on the mains.
This is the beauty of the 351W.  Small, light package with large durable
bottom end components.  The 351W's main and rod journals are larger than the
standard 289/302's.
Jason
'69 Bronco 5.0 HO EFI, NP435
'96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke E4OD


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Kaczmar" <biertest-r excite.com>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 7:56 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] 400M crank into 351W


> This is a pretty common swap. The thing is that it entails quite a bit of
> machining. The 400M crank is based off of the Cleveland design, and the
> mains are Huge compared to the 351W. I think almost .25" has to be
removed,
> if not more to make the main fit.
>
> a friend of mine at Ford was considering using this crank on a 351W
project
> for his Bronco, but once he figured the machining cost, i.e. cutting the
> mains, fluxing, and rebalancing, he was looking at a less than $100
> difference to getting a stroker crank to start with. I'll poke his brain
as
> to where he found a commercially available stroker crank.
>
> Michael Kaczmar ....


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