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61-79-list Digest Mon, 21 Aug 2000 Volume: 2000  Issue: 204

In This Issue:
More on Mice
RE sick duck
Stroker W's
Re: Vacation
Re: Bronco II
Re: Bronco II
Dana  60-70
Electrical Drain
Re: M's, C's and W's.
Re: M's, C's and W's.
Engine
Re: Seized 390 II
Re: Dana  60-70
Re: Engine
Re: Engine
Re: Engine
Re: M's, C's and W's.
FE cam bearings and oiling
Re: Bronco II
Re: Electrical Drain
Re: Engine
Re: M's, C's and W's.
Re: Engine
Re: Engine
Re: Engine

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Desanto, Phillip" <pdesanto Cinergy.com>
Subject: More on Mice
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 06:41:17 -0400

Those little guys get into everything. I had em in my  63 Galaxie a few
years ago. My wife and I were taking it for it's "maiden cruise" into town
to show it off a little. It had been setting about 10 years. Going down the
Highway about 65, SWMBO says " It's hot in here, I want some air". So I
pulled on the long unused vent knob to cool her down. Well, the heater
housing wasn't one of the things that I cleaned out in getting the car ready
to drive. About 2 tons of misc. mouse material blew out of there and filled
the car.   Luckily most of it went into her lap and hair ! Once the debris
settled and the screaming stopped, I turned around and went back home.
But it was quit a while before I got her back in that car !

Another incident was with my Mustang that was stored for the winter a few
years ago.
I had opened the garage door part way, and was going to start it up for a
few minutes.
I gave it a couple of pumps and turned the key, and it lit off.
I held the engine speed up a little to get it off the cam, but it sounded
kinda funny.
So I blipped it a couple of times to clean it out.
Then it got real quiet for a second then, BLAM......SMACK !! Then it
sounded OK.
I got out to see what all the commotion was. Man....what a mess!
I had evicted a whole mouse family, insulation and all, from one of the
turbo's, straight out the 2 1/2" tailpipes
and into the garage door !
Sorry for the length, but I finally had something funny to add to the list.
Later, Phil


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 07:53:35 -0400
From: "Brice Sample" <sampleb state.mi.us>
Subject: RE sick duck


Michael wrote.....
Do you have one, or two horns under the hood?........

Nop....there is one big one that looks like a spittoon....


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 07:55:07 -0500
Subject: Re: the 351 story continues
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> you can tell by
> where the pan hangs low (in the front, not the back) and the
> fact that the oil dipstick is in the front, going into the timing
> chain cover area rather than down the side to the oil pan.

Hold the phone. My (Henry's) dipstick goes in the front timing cover, not
the side of the oil pan. Ford replaced the engine at about 6000 miles.
???????

> The engine mounting pieces
> that are on the frame are just two little brackets rather than
> the across-the-frame section that you find under the engine
> in the 4x2's, and since it is wide open space underneath, the
> oil pan just hangs between them instead of being crunched up
> against a steel frame piece.  The only nuisance in this is that
> the drain plug sits right over the axle, so catching your used
> oil might be a little bit of a challenge, but other than that, it
> works out quite nicely.

Sounds just like Henry, a 4x2.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:02:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Hi/lo Horns
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

>>There was a dual horn option which used a hi and a lo horn.  I think it
>>sounds quite excellent and two 'horns' are better than one.
>
> I agree on the sound...much nice and fuller across the tonal range. :-)
> However, I've noticed that some trucks have 2 lo horns and you have to
> scrounge around a bit to find a hi tone horn. Was there a reason for this
> or have people been modifying their horn setup?

My .2 cents worth on horns. If you want a nice loud set of electric horns,
go to the bone yard and grab a full set off of a Lincoln or Cadillac. Most
of them have a third horn that gives the big luxury cars their distinctive
sound. I haven't hunted off of Lincolns lately, but I know the older Caddies
had a straight bell third horn, then in the mid 70s it was a rolled bell,
but noticeably larger than the standard high low horns.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:06:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Generate into this
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> John LaG. writes:  >>How did Flareside vs stepside ever degenerate into
this?)<<
>
> I threw a punch at Tony M in a very Jokingly manner and it all turned into
this..
> Sorry about that.
>
> Azie Magnusson

No worries. BTDT :-)

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:17:02 -0500
Subject: Re: RE sick duck
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> Do you have one, or two horns under the hood?........
>
> Nop....there is one big one that looks like a spittoon....

Be sure to point the opening down when you install your new horns so that
they don't fill with water. No offense is intended with this post. A lot of
people install stuff by the way it looks and sometime make a fatal error in
functionality.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" <maggie11 HiWAAY.net>
Subject: Stroker W's
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:32:59 -0500


Dave Prasse writes:  >>There is a company making stroker Windsors using 400 cranks.<<

Tell me who/where this Co is, please!!!


Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" <gpeters3 visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Vacation
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:55:15 -0400

Well, I thought I had unsubscribed but failed to answer the confirmation
request so I had 586 emails when I got back......sheesh!  Glad to hear you
are enjoying your Vaca....er, Retirement Azie :-)  I just spent 3 days at
New Philidelphia with my wife's Fibro group.  We took the dog in a cage most
of the trip but once I let her out and stepped into a gas station for ice
and I now have 5 vehicles with damaged seat belts.....:-(  # #$%^# dogs
anyway! :-(  The rest of the trip was pretty nice though :-)  That van was
packed with that cage and chairs for the picknic....going to make a few
adjustments on the next trip for sure :-) (dang dog is staying in her cage
for one thing....:-))

Two weeks and counting.......:-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>Gary writes:  >>How the heck does a retired guy go on
>vacation.........he's already on vacation :-)<<
>
>But I vacated in a different spot with all my family.
>Everyone of them.
>
>Azie Magnusson
>Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:24:39 GMT
Subject: Re: Bronco II

Looks like a few on the 61-79 list have posted already, dunno about the perf
list as I haven't made it that far yet, but here's my $.02 ...

>Bronco II's and Rangers share drivetrain parts.  The front clips are
>interchangeable.

Sort of.  Eddie Bauer editions are a whole nuther ball game though, they have
different interiors, different fenders (believe it or not) and every electrical
option in the book.  A friend of mine has one and hates trying to find parts
for it.  Its been wrecked a couple of times and the wrong front fenders are
on it.  Also some of the aftermarket sheet metal you can get is too small, ie
it fits inside the original pieces so that can cause fitment issues...


>I don't think the drivetrain would hold up well to a 351.

Amen.


> The later ones
>used an 8.8 in the rear (same as the mustang and full size pickups) and a
>Dana 35 in the front.

I think this was post 88 or so, seems like that was a cutoff year for a lot
of the stuff on the BII's.

>The 87 should have an EFI 2.9, a couple of options with transmissions,

The auto WILL NOT take anywhere near a 351, heck they have trouble holding 2.9's
and 2.3L 4's (anyone want a blown one cheap ?)  The 5spd is better, but not
great at high torque loads.

Some have had problems with cracked heads, which is a new one for me, all the
ones around here have oiling issues, lots of clicks from valves/lifters that
shouldn't be there, but they seem to keep running for quite some time with these
noises.

The 2.9L reminds me of a sbc missing its front two cylinders, but then I haven't
played with a sbc in probably 10 years or so.


Swapping a 351 will increase the weight as someone mentioned.  It is also a
big space hog, if you look at the heater box that protrudes into the engine
compartment you can see space issues galore.  Its been done, and since you're
retired with lots of time ... ;)

>BW13-45 transfer case, 7.5" in the rear, and a Dana 28 in the front.

The 7.5" rear will not take the torque for very long, the transfer case might,
but the tranny of course is a problem.

>> Are any of the front body parts interchangeable as with the F series and

>> Fullsize Broncos of same years??

No, they're on about a 3/4 scale I think, they look similar but are a smaller
size for sure.


All that said, the people who have them love them, I've got at least 3 friends
with them (86, 87, 88 ironically) and they love them.  I worked on the 86 for
a while and drove it around and they are a blast to drive, though you do have
to watch the corners a bit, they aren't as bad as most would have you believe,
but a full size pickup can easily out corner one with a decent driver.

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4   6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" <gpeters3 visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Bronco II
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:50:39 -0400

Ok, that's it, I'm off this #$%$#$ # list!!  If we can't talk about 61-79's
here then..........:-)  I actually liked my son's 86 pretty well in the
snow.  Tracked real nice at 70 or so in 6" of snow......:-)  I would venture
that a 302 swap would be pretty easy but 351?........OTOH I know a guy who
put a 460 in a ranger.......

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>a while and drove it around and they are a blast to drive,
>though you do have
>to watch the corners a bit, they aren't as bad as most would
>have you believe,

------------------------------

From: "NP 540" <np540 hotmail.com>
Subject: Dana  60-70
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 15:02:32 GMT


Hi everybody!
  Since noticing recently some talks about the Dana-60 rear-end,
I was wondering; how do you differentiate between a Dana-60 and a
Dana-70 on a '70's Ford truck? Just wondering which of those there
is on my 1975 F-250 SuperCab Camper-Special 2x4(junked).
I'm talking about the rear-end here.

Many thanks!

Gerry
1978 F-150 SuperCab 4x4
1979 F-150 regular cab 4x4
M-block disciple.........
VIVE LE FORD!



________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hotmail.com


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:16:36 -0700
From: Clare Waterman-Storer <waterman scripps.edu>
Subject: Electrical Drain

Hi Guys-

long time no speak... been real busy with the new job.

I have run into a problem, however-  my truck (71 f250 recently rebuilt 360, c6)
has a slow electrical drain such that if i dont run it regularly (i.e. if it
sits for 5-7 days) the battery runs dead.  It is a brand new battery.  I am
wondering if you all might have some suggestions.  Since i got my 69 mustang
fastback (built 302, toploader, 9" with 3.90's, etc) i dont drive the truck as
much as i used to, mostly for work around the property.

thanks for any suggetstions

Clare


-- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Listar --
-- Type: text/x-vcard
-- File: waterman.vcf
-- Desc: Card for Clare Waterman-Storer



------------------------------

From: "Bill Beyer" <bbeyer99 home.com>
Subject: Re: M's, C's and W's.
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:58:57 -0700

Jason, I'm going to type slowly and use short words so hopefully you can
understand. Someone used the paragraph out of the book as a source of
information proving that M meant modified. Since Mr Ganahl's assertion that
the 351W crank was simply slapped into a 400 block to make the 351M is
incorrect it is highly likely that  his assertion that the M means modified
is also incorrect. I have done lengthy research on the subject,  including
emailing the former webmaster of the Ford V-8 Engine Workshop, Bill Lewis, a
man who has done more work with Ford V-8s than anyone I've ever met. His
response was:

"I have not found a Ford reference yet for the meaning of the M. But, since
the 351W and 351C are named for the Windsor and Cleveland foundry/engine
plants, I assume M is for Michigan Casting Center. I've also heard Midland."

Rest assured I will continue to pursue this though I don't intend to make it
my life's work.

So why don't you toddle on down the road of ignorance believing whatever you
hear is true and let's just leave it at that...OK?


"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Derra" <derrar internetcds.com>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 4:23 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: M's, C's and W's.


> You're not getting anywhere by proving that the guy made a mistake in the
> sentence.  We all know that the cranks are different.  It doesn't mean
that
> the whole book is loaded with bad information.  Get over it already.  If
you
> want to prove that the "M" means... whatever, go do some real research and
> find the information to back up your facts.  Quit trying to disspell
> everyone elses information.
> I thought this subject died 2 days ago...
> Jason
> '69 Bronco 5.0 HO EFI, NP435
> '96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke E4OD
>









------------------------------

From: "Southerland, Rich" <rsouther alldata.com>
Subject: Re: M's, C's and W's.
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:02:37 -0700

Geez.  Does it really matter THAT much?  If y'all wanna get into a pi$
match, can you do it somewhere else?

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Beyer [mailto:bbeyer99 home.com]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 8:59 AM
To: 61-79 List
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: M's, C's and W's.


Jason, I'm going to type slowly and use short words so hopefully you can
understand. Someone used the paragraph out of the book as a source of
information proving that M meant modified. Since Mr Ganahl's assertion that
the 351W crank was simply slapped into a 400 block to make the 351M is
incorrect it is highly likely that  his assertion that the M means modified
is also incorrect. I have done lengthy research on the subject,  including
emailing the former webmaster of the Ford V-8 Engine Workshop, Bill Lewis, a
man who has done more work with Ford V-8s than anyone I've ever met. His
response was:

"I have not found a Ford reference yet for the meaning of the M. But, since
the 351W and 351C are named for the Windsor and Cleveland foundry/engine
plants, I assume M is for Michigan Casting Center. I've also heard Midland."

Rest assured I will continue to pursue this though I don't intend to make it
my life's work.

So why don't you toddle on down the road of ignorance believing whatever you
hear is true and let's just leave it at that...OK?


"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Derra" <derrar internetcds.com>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 4:23 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: M's, C's and W's.


> You're not getting anywhere by proving that the guy made a mistake in the
> sentence.  We all know that the cranks are different.  It doesn't mean
that
> the whole book is loaded with bad information.  Get over it already.  If
you
> want to prove that the "M" means... whatever, go do some real research and
> find the information to back up your facts.  Quit trying to disspell
> everyone elses information.
> I thought this subject died 2 days ago...
> Jason
> '69 Bronco 5.0 HO EFI, NP435
> '96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke E4OD
>








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------------------------------

From: "Dave Emerick" <djemerick hotmail.com>
Subject: Engine
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:10:51 EST

Contemplating rebuilding the 'ol 360 in my '75 4x4.  I'm curious....I always
read and see just 390 in trucks, but never any 360's.  I realize the longer
stroke equals more torque, but with a decent rebuild the 360 ought to
present some respectable torque numbers.

I've got a 390 out in the barn, but in questionable condition (it's not
apart).  This engine was originally in a car, and I bought it in non-running
condition.  I know what the general opinion will be...use the 390, but I
know the general condition of the 360...it's been a great running engine,
the short time I had the truck on the road.  Guess I could see saving the
390 for another future project....

So you FE nuts, there's the question.....why not more 360's? Is power the
ONLY reason?


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------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:13:53 EDT
Subject: Re: Seized 390 II

What motor is it exactly?

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:21:52 EDT
Subject: Re: Dana  60-70

Just look on the pumpkin, passenger side, near the top.  They cast a 60 or 70
into them to distinguish them.  But if your just eyeballing, the 70 is as
much bigger than a 60 as a 60 is to a 44. BUT they use the same diff cover.
So dont try counting bolts.  And for all you Dana 70 owners.  A missprint in
the latest FELPRO book will give you a gasket for a 44 instead of a 70.  Just
ask for the 60 gasket.  You'll be fine.

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:23:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Engine
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> So you FE nuts, there's the question.....why not more 360's? Is power the
> ONLY reason?

I'll get this one started. The 390 and 360 are basically the same engine.
They are so similar that you can't tell them apart on the outside. The
stroke is different. There are a few internal parts that you swap from a 360
for 390 parts (I think pistons and rods, and maybe crank? Someone will fill
in the details.) At any rate, the general consensus is that for a few extra
bucks, you can have all of the bang of a 390 instead of the 360.

I thought lots of trucks came with 360s ?????

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:29:24 EDT
Subject: Re: Engine

Well I'll tell ya one thing. Stock 360 versus a stock 390, I believe the 360
revs better, and performs better at a higher RPM.  We have a 73 F-350 with a
600 gallon tank on the back.  IT started with a junker 360, and ran fine for
about 11 years.  Well about 6 months ago I tore the truck down and rebuilt
everything.  I also installed a 390.  The torque off the line is better,
which is great for getting 600 gallons of water moving.  But On the freeway,
the 360 always seemed to accelerate faster.  Also the 360 would hit 115 mph,
the 390 barely breaks 100.  Other than the cube difference these engines are
identical.  Same 2 bbl carb and intake, exhaust fan, both had solid fans, etc
etc.  If I was building an FE for Tweety, Id go the bigger is better route,
but only because I have a block I could turn into a 406.  But If I was
buildin a stocker that didn't have to work to hard, I'd opt for the 360.
Just feels like a better cruisin motor.

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:31:18 EDT
Subject: Re: Engine

In a message dated 8/21/00 9:24:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jlagrone ford-trucks.com writes:

<< There are a few internal parts that you swap from a 360
for 390 parts (I think pistons and rods, and maybe crank? Someone will fill
in the details. >>

If he used the pistons, rods and crank from a 360, wouldnt he still have a
360?  Actually none of these parts are the same, crank has longer stroke, the
360 rod is longer then the 390 rod, and the 390 piston is notched for rod
clearance.

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:33:42 EDT
Subject: Re: Engine

In a message dated 8/21/00 9:24:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jlagrone ford-trucks.com writes:

<< I thought lots of trucks came with 360s ????? >>

The 360 was the biggest FE available in a 4x4 from Ford, although Ive heard
rumors that on year of the 67-72 bodystyle had a 390 option.  Fords idea was
to overbuild the drivetrain with all the strongest stuff available, then put
an adequate motor in so everything else lasts forever.

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:41:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Finn <ecfinn yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: M's, C's and W's.

AMEN!  This should have been in private email a LOOONNNGGG time ago.

Later,
Eric

--- "Southerland, Rich" <rsouther alldata.com> wrote:
> Geez.  Does it really matter THAT much?  If y'all wanna get into a
> pi$
> match, can you do it somewhere else?


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:48:26 -0500
From: "Howard Bottles" <Howard.Bottles austin.ppdi.com>
Subject: FE cam bearings and oiling


Does anyone know if FE cam bearings have one or 2 oil holes? I am
working on a 390 and am having lots of problems
with it. It appears to me that the oiling path is as follows for a
hydraulic lifter block, top oiler:

oil pump, to top gallery, oils cam bearings, then down to mains. I had
new cam bearings installed and they only have
oil holes pointing to the top, but I can't figure out how the mains get
oil.

Thanks
Howardb


------------------------------

From: "Jason Derra" <derrar internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: Bronco II
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:20:29 -0700


> Sort of.  Eddie Bauer editions are a whole nuther ball game though, they
have
> different interiors, different fenders (believe it or not) and every
electrical
> option in the book.  A friend of mine has one and hates trying to find
parts
> for it.  Its been wrecked a couple of times and the wrong front fenders
are
> on it.  Also some of the aftermarket sheet metal you can get is too small,
ie
> it fits inside the original pieces so that can cause fitment issues...
Yes, the EB models do have different interior panels, but the body panels
are identical from year to year.  They changed the front end design in 88/89
to accomodate aero headlights.  I have heard that the later front ends will
bolt to the earlier models, but it does take quite a bit of work to
accomplish.  I had an '85 Bronco II Eddie Bauer.  I gave it to my brother in
law.  He had it repainted and the interior (from the headliner to the
carpet) redone, rebuilt the engine, among everything else that was done.
And then proceeds to trade it in back east for a new pickup.  They only gave
him $500 for the trade in. :^(
Jason
'69 Bronco 5.0 HO EFI, NP435
'96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke E4OD



------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" <gpeters3 visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Electrical Drain
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:11:08 -0400

Voltage Regulator or hung brake light switch due to non-returning brake
pedal or under hood light that doesn't turn off.....ever try to see if a
refrigerator light goes out..........:-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>I have run into a problem, however-  my truck (71 f250
>recently rebuilt 360, c6)
>has a slow electrical drain such that if i dont run it
>regularly (i.e. if it
>sits for 5-7 days) the battery runs dead.  It is a brand new
>battery.

------------------------------

From: "Hogan, Tom" <Tom.Hogan kla-tencor.com>
Subject: Re: Engine
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:16:13 -0700


>
> Contemplating rebuilding the 'ol 360 in my '75 4x4.  I'm
> curious....I always
> read and see just 390 in trucks, but never any 360's.  I
> realize the longer
> stroke equals more torque, but with a decent rebuild the 360 ought to
> present some respectable torque numbers.
>
> I've got a 390 out in the barn, but in questionable condition
> (it's not
> apart).  This engine was originally in a car, and I bought it
> in non-running
> condition.  I know what the general opinion will be...use the
> 390, but I
> know the general condition of the 360...it's been a great
> running engine,
> the short time I had the truck on the road.  Guess I could
> see saving the
> 390 for another future project....
>
> So you FE nuts, there's the question.....why not more 360's?
> Is power the
> ONLY reason?
>
>

The opinion of the group has been that the 390 gives more power with the
same or better fuel mileage.  So, why not a 390?  I've thought that a 360
with higher compression should get better mileage and keep up with a stock
390.

Tom H

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:21:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Engine
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> << There are a few internal parts that you swap from a 360
>  for 390 parts (I think pistons and rods, and maybe crank? Someone will fill
>  in the details. >>
>
> If he used the pistons, rods and crank from a 360, wouldnt he still have a
> 360?  Actually none of these parts are the same, crank has longer stroke, the
> 360 rod is longer then the 390 rod, and the 390 piston is notched for rod
> clearance.

Darrell,
I think what I meant was that those 390 parts in a 360 block put you well on
the way to turning a 360 into a 390.

> I believe the 360
> revs better, and performs better at a higher RPM.

I've never owned either so have no opinion on which is better, but your
initial analysis seems accurate. Generally, shorter stroke engines rev more
quickly and rev higher, all else being equal.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

From: "Jason Derra" <derrar internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: M's, C's and W's.
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:38:21 -0700

I'm sorry I sent my last post to the list.  It was meant to go just to Bill.
Jason


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:31:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Electrical Drain
From: "John LaGrone" <jlagrone ford-trucks.com>

> Voltage Regulator or hung brake light switch due to non-returning brake
> pedal or under hood light that doesn't turn off.....ever try to see if a
> refrigerator light goes out..........:-)

What do you think about shorted field coil in the alternator?

Also, I'd try a different battery, regardless of the age of the battery.
Actually, you might eliminate the battery as a problem by disconnecting it
for the typical go dead time and see if it goes dead just sitting in the
truck.

The best way to find something like this is to get an inductive amp meter
that you can clamp across the hot battery cable near the battery. Disconnect
things one at a time until the draw disappears. I'd start with the
regulator, the alternator, then the starter. Next I'd go pull fuses one at a
time. When you isolate the circuit, then you can isolate the item.

Good luck, Clare. Electrical problems are not fun :-(

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com     <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:42:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Engine

Whoops, I was still enjoyin my coffee when I read that.  Sorry bout that.

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 14:31:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Hall <sch8489 garnet.acns.fsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Engine

On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, John LaGrone wrote:

> I'll get this one started. The 390 and 360 are basically the same engine.
> They are so similar that you can't tell them apart on the outside. The
> stroke is different. There are a few internal parts that you swap from a 360
> for 390 parts (I think pistons and rods, and maybe crank? Someone will fill
> in the details.) At any rate, the general consensus is that for a few extra
> bucks, you can have all of the bang of a 390 instead of the 360.

if the 360 has a shorter stroke than the 390, the crank will not swap.  at
least, not without some, er...modifications. ;-)

sorry.

scott


------------------------------

From: "wish" <wish ford-trucks.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 19:20:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Engine



>Well I'll tell ya one thing. Stock 360 versus a stock 390, I believe the 360

>revs better, and performs better at a higher RPM.

hmmm,that's interesting... headers can make a huge difference on an FE's revving
ability, but I know you said everything was the same between them ... I've never
really played with a "stock" 390 though, mine's a bit too tweaked for that ...


> Also the 360 would hit 115 mph,
>the 390 barely breaks 100.  Other than the cube difference these engines are

>identical.  Same 2 bbl carb and intake, exhaust fan, both had solid fans, etc

>etc.

There's most of the problem right there, you're trying to feed more displacement
with the same dinky carb ... that carb could barely feed a 360 at any kind of
rpm's, much less a 390, I'll bet a swap to a 4V would really wake up the top
end on that motor ...


Someone else mentioned a high compression 360 and I'm not sure if you can get
pistons for such a beast, but that would be my route too, except that I found
a deal on a 390 that made it just as viable as a 360 rebuild, so I decided on
the bigger is better, cammed it and beefed the compression ratio up (a bit too
far I might add) ... I've always thought about building a high compression high
revving 360 ... hmm, we just picked up an 88 mustang 4cyl parts car ... I could
scrounge up a C6 .. ;)

If you just need to freshen the motor that's in there, and money is a concern,
then I'd go ahead with a 360 build, adding a 4V and headers will really make
it a lot meaner motor too. ....


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