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From: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com (61-79-list-digest)
To: 61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: 61-79-list-digest V4 #16
Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Sender: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com
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Precedence: bulk


61-79-list-digest Wednesday, January 12 2000 Volume 04 : Number 016



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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To unsubscribe, send email to:
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - fuel pump life
FTE 61-79 - rattling and hard start
FTE 61-79 - fuel pump
FTE 61-79 - RE: gravity bleeding of brakes
Re: FTE 61-79 - rattling and hard start
FTE 61-79 - wild rides
FTE 61-79 - fuel pumps by Methusalah
RE: FTE 61-79 - rattling and hard start
FTE 61-79 - low diffs vs od
Re: FTE 61-79 - Fuel pump, M-blocks
Re: FTE 61-79 - Say.....Ken, about that ford link...
FTE 61-79 - re:rattling and hard start
FTE 61-79 - P/S rebuild
FTE 61-79 - Sump Main stud
FTE 61-79 - EFI Fuel Pump #2
FTE 61-79 - '64 For Sale $500
RE: FTE 61-79 - Body mounts, a quiz :-)
FTE 61-79 - For Sale:'79 F-150 S/C 4x4 & 460 kit
Re: Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 390 engine rebuild (propane)

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:07:13 -0700
From: "Kiernan, Denny" wenet.net>
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - fuel pump life

John LaGrone wrote:

> Bill's right. The pump I just replaced on Henry was the original making it
> 20+ years old. If run lots of STP gas treatment and B12 Chemtool through it
> over the years.

I've never used STP or B12 Chemtool. I dont even know exactly what
they're supposed to do. How widely used are they by the members of this
list? And are they only for special set-ups, or for everybody?

Denny
'72 F-100 360 2WD Manual everything, 140K
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:06:30 -0600
From: "John LaGrone" ford-trucks.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - rattling and hard start

>>The hard starting is a big block thing, 460's do it and 400/351's do it but
it has to be within a certain time span after you shut them off. <<

Can't say about 460s, but my 351m was hard to turn over at certain times
until I bought a 675cc amp battery. That's cold crank amps. If your timing
is right and your starter is in good shape, it should spin and kick right
off with a high amp battery.

If your engine vibrates while running, you may have some loose brackets. My
air conditioner compressor used to shake my truck to pieces, literally. A
fast constant ticking while the truck is running at idle speed and not
moving is probably in the valve train. An come and go tick may be a water
pump or alternator bearing.

All engines tick when you shut them off as the metal expands after coolant
flow stops. Ticking noises are hard to find sometimes. Don't give up.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:13:55 -0600
From: "John LaGrone" ford-trucks.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - fuel pump

>>John LsG writes: >> Next, start the bottom bolt, but
do not tighten it. You should be applying pressure to make the bolt and
holes line up. Henry's 351m had a stud and nut for the bottom fastener and
a
notch on the bottom of the fuel pump instead of a hole. If you have this
configuration, install the stud, insert the fuel pump, then start the nut.
Now go to the top hole and start that bolt<<

Am I missing something here???? My fuel pumps all have horizonally
parallell bolts!!!! Not familar with the 335 series(even though I have two
of them in my garage), but I am FE and 385 Competent, and both of them have
no top and bottom holes on the fuel pump.
<<

No, Azie, you didn't miss anything. 351m is top/bottom as I described, at
least mine is. I can't recall any other engine being top/bottom. All the
general's stuff I remember was side to side. Top/bottom is much better IMHO.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:18:27 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: gravity bleeding of brakes

In response to a question from Pat:

Well, I put it on the lift, remove all the wheels, drag my cart over to the
right rear wheel and crack the bleeder with a clear hose attached and purge
all the air out of the line by holding it up till all the bubbles are out
and it is running fluid, then I stick it quickly into the open bottle half
full of fluid and submerge the end so no air can be drawn back in.

Since I previously wrapped the bleeders with gas teflon tape they don't let
air in even when loose except via the opening so now I can just let it drip
or actually press the pedal with my hand to push the fluid out. When you
let up it draws clean fluid back in rather than air and a little from the MC
too so you eventually do move the bubbles out this way.

I've found that to get all the air out I usually have to give it a little
push to "jar" the bubbles loose in the cylinders and fittings etc. but just
letting it drip will get you fairly solid brakes. I put a step ladder up by
the MC and keep it full as I go, not allowing any air to enter at the MC,
ever.....I hate bleeding MC's :-( Opening a bleeder about 1/2 turn will
drain the MC in about 5 minutes or less so watch it closely. You can't just
walk away and let it "bleed" like a gut shot deer :-)

I spent $100 on a fancy outfit to pressure bleed them when I was having
trouble getting them to work (turned out to be the Proportioning/residual
valve) but the old gravity bleed still works about as good as any I've tried
but it will not dislodge hung bubbles so a mixture is what I usually use.
If I have someone available I will use him (or her) but I usually don't.

As to the fancy outfit, don't buy a Pheonix kit, it's a waste of money and
the Mity Vac works just as well, is better made and comes with a vac gauge
all for about half what I paid and didn't even get a gauge. Got a nice
carrying case though :-) The one Sears sells for about $40 is a real keeper
due to the brass body and quality parts in it, might be made by Mity Vac not
sure. You can get them on sale for around $30. Only good thing I got out
of this kit is one stinking bleeder fitting for the clear tube and the case,
the rest was a waste of money IMNSHO :-(

BTW, the Pickup has firmer brakes than the Bronco, probably due to the 4x4
front axle on the bronco, and it gravity bleeds beautifully, no pumping or
anything.

Dissertation, eh? Aint touch typing neat? You just go like blazes and next
thing you know you got a screen full of "stuff" which may or may not be of
value :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
- --

> Hi Gary,
> I read your posting on the new cab mounts and you
> mentioned that you
> had "Gravity bled the brakes again last night"

> get a pedal pusher. Any solitary brake bleeding info that you
> can share
> would be much appreciated. (By the way, that dissertation on
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:25:37 -0800
From: wicowboy gateway.net>
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - rattling and hard start

but my 351m was hard to turn over at certain times
> until I bought a 675cc amp battery. That's cold crank amps.

Must be from down south, i run 2 1200cca batteries to get my truck
started........These big blocks don't like the COLD up here....
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:35:50 -0600
From: "John LaGrone" ford-trucks.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - wild rides

>>Everything that started out in the front seat was in the back seat,
including the screwdriver that I'd used as a key. <<

Hahahaha. You're supposed to use the light switch from the living room. A
resurrected Mustang once sported an ignition switch of this type. We didn't
realize at the time it was a safety feature. Of course we rebuilt the front
end steering linkage by hooking a chain and tractor to it and rolling it on
its side, too.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:37:40 -0600
From: "John LaGrone" ford-trucks.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - fuel pumps by Methusalah

>>Anyway that's my rant, for more info on the ethanol thing see

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ethanol.org/ethanol_racing.html

And its not just 'cause I'm in Iowa!<<

Sure it is!!! I don't have a problem with alcohol in fuel and I don't think
it will effect the life of your fuel pump to use it which is what I meant to
be conveying in my original post. I have burned ethanol blend when visiting
states where it is available and it was OK.

>>>Especially Ethanol.....:-) Blind and wrapped around a tree.....<<

If you drink denatured alcohol (ethanol), one of the side effects is
blindness. Next is death.

>>The story I heard about ethanol is that the alcohol attacks the heavy metals
in the carb, copper, tin (I'll catch it for this), lead, zink etc. found in
brass and bronze parts so a different material is needed for jets, needles
and seats etc...Never heard anything about rubber parts being affected :-)<<

I've heard that ethanol destroys rubber parts in the fuel system due to its
similarities to water. I have no actual experience to refute or support this
claim.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:47:20 -0600
From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - rattling and hard start

> but my 351m was hard to turn over at certain times
> > until I bought a 675cc amp battery. That's cold crank amps.
>
> Must be from down south, i run 2 1200cca batteries to get my truck
> started........These big blocks don't like the COLD up here....


Hahhaaha ..yeah that was my first thought too :) I think its getting time
to change my 975cca out, I'll be sad to see it go though, its lasted 4 years
or so and has jumpstarted more cars than I can count, along with starting my
360 in -50 weather one time ... wow it was cold that day and of course my
sister's FI V6 wouldn't start (dead battery) and her roommates car wouldn't
start (hundai so even if it started, then what ?) ... Mine was one of three
moving at 8 oclock that morning, the other 2 were 4cyls wondering how my
lumbering V8 got started :)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:51:27 -0600
From: "John LaGrone" ford-trucks.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - low diffs vs od

Gary,

I thought of another possible problem with a low number diff and a properly
geared tranny for a 1:1 output. If you stomp it to pass it wouldn't have any
guts without dropping several gears. Dropping more than one gear is hard to
do in a hydraulic system and it takes time for each shift. It seems the
buying public thinks they are all race drivers now days so that this combo
might not sell well.

My uncle always said you could scatter an auto by downshifting too early
while pulling a steep hill. He said that eventually the bands would snap.

Besides, Overdrive is a buzz word now and most people think they want it.
There are numerous examples of marketing for one company being so successful
that the entire industry thinks they have to follow suit.

I personally prefer the wide ratio C6 and low diff to the OD setup,
especially in a truck.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:44:35 -0800
From: "Jeff Norville" sosinet.net>
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Fuel pump, M-blocks

> John LsG writes: >> Next, start the bottom bolt, but
> do not tighten it. You should be applying pressure to make the bolt and
> holes line up. Henry's 351m had a stud and nut for the bottom fastener and
> a
> notch on the bottom of the fuel pump instead of a hole....<<

> Azie querries: Am I missing something here???? My fuel pumps all have
> horizonally
> parallell bolts!!!! Not familar with the 335 series(even though I have two
> of them in my garage), but I am FE and 385 Competent, and both of them have
> no top and bottom holes on the fuel pump.

Jeff suggests:

Can't remember which motor the pump was replaced on in original post, but I
think all 385 series motors have the horizonal pump bolt pattern, the 335s
(at least the 351 & 400 M-blocks that I am familiar with) have a vertical
bolt pattern. Makes it super nice and easy to install the pump per Azie's
directions (bolts line up with direction of resistance from cam). I didn't
spin my motor when installing the fuel pump, but then the bock was on a
stand with no timing cover, making things pretty easy to see...

My M-block no longer had the stud but a bolt instead - suppose the stud
would make things even happier doing an underhood install.

After all the personal agonizing done before swapping in the 400M for the
stock, worn out 351M, I am pretty happy with my decision. Yes, 460 would've
been nifty. But this block is lighter. Better economy? A little. EASY to
find parts for here in Ca's fruit basket, where every farmer has retired one
or two late 70s f150 to a local boneyard. And, in spite of one of the most
confusing vac diagrams I have read (after reading my wiring diagram), it
seems to run smoothly through the rpms (oh for a clutch fan), and idles very
cleanly (warm the globe!).

Jeff
Whose new fad is getting off topic to express feelings that m-blocks are
underrated in terms of reliability (sorry!)
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:17:10 -0500
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Say.....Ken, about that ford link...

>From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
>To: "'61-79-list ford-trucks.com'" <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Say.....Ken, about that ford link...
>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:00:07 -0500
>
>Now that you are a big shot and have all this power how about a direct link
>to one of ford's sites where they take complaints?

- -snip-

Actually, I only have access to their press agent site. Dealers
also have a private site. I do however, have a few email addresses
inside of Ford but I certainly don't want to abuse the trust of
those who gave them to me. Picture this, you're a Ford employee,
and suddenly your email address gets listed as a complaint address...
with millions of Fords out there, your mailbox would soon collapse!

I will, however, ask of Mr. Masone of Ford's plans with respect to
public interaction of problems and/or suggestions on the net.

Ken




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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:55:25 -0700
From: "Greg Sage" home.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - re:rattling and hard start

I don't think the Wife would go for that as I have a small lot in the city.
Have to get an acreage first...hehe. I have thought of that though, buddy
has a 79 Bronco with a 351M in it for 500 bucks I could use for parts. Ran
it past the Wife and she wasn't impressed. Thanks to all that posted.
Going to look at the timing chain this weekend.

Greg Sage (M/M/29)
Calgary, Alberta Canada
78 F150 2WD REGULAR CAB 351M/400 C6


Hi Greg,
Can't help you with the engine problems but maybe I can with the replacement
stuff.
New engine!! Buy a beater rust bucket with a good engine for $500Cdn. and
stick it in. You'll not only get the engine, but all the little bits and
pieces that you can strip off of it, all of which come in handy at some
point. I've found that you can buy the complete truck for a lot less than
you can buy a cab, tranny, motor or what have you.
Patsplace
78 F-150 W/Overloads
77 F-250 4X4
79 F-250 4X4 Dream Truck Under Way
72 F150 Ranger parts truck
79 F250 Lariat donor vech. for the '79 4X4


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:35:10 -0800
From: "S.Harkema" ford-trucks.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - P/S rebuild

>Does anyone know a source for rebuilding p/s boxes?

L and M Power Steering Reno NV 775 353 3777
All work is performed by and guarateed by the owner.
He ain't cheap tho..........
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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:16:47 -0600
From: ballingr bootheel.net
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Sump Main stud

Would anyone have a spare main bolt for a 4X4 FE that has the stud for
bolting the pick-up to. I have one in my other engine, but I don't want to
break into it yet.

Please email me privately if you do. Thanks.

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Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 02:23:10 GMT
From: davewild tc3net.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - EFI Fuel Pump #2

I may not have made myself to clear when I wrote the first message. (I'm new at this)
My plan is to put an EFI 4.9 six into my 78'. I am trying to figure out the best
way to rig up the older trucks fuel system to work with the EFI. My dad has an 87'
with this engine in it. It has an in tank pump which is low pressure and he just
had to get a new one and it cost about $160 new from Ford. It then has a high pres.
pump mounted to the frame rail which supplies the high pres. needed for the EFI(45-60lbs
I don't know off hand). Any way I wanted to know if I could get just a high pressure
pump that could do the job because I don' want to get a new tank that would accept
the newer model fuel pump. I just wanted to solder in a return line into my sender
and use one pump or two a low and a high but out of the tank. OR would it be better
to get the new tank and use the same setup as on the newer trucks? I just didn't
know of anyone who made a high pres. fuel pump for EFI. I appreciate all your help.
This project is still in planning hoping to start this spring just trying to think
of as many problems as I possibly can.

Dave Wild
78' F150 Custom 300six
3 on the tree

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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:31:33 -0800
From: Carver ncwebsurfer.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - '64 For Sale $500

I have an open ended ad in a really local paper asking for
parts for a '64. I could probably have 3 more '64 trucks
by now, but I'm lazy.

Got a call tonight, Matt wants to sell his '64, 262 inline 6
special ordered, originally purchased by his sister-in-law's
dad. Have original receipts from dealer. Stock except with
flatbed. Didn't ask if it was an F100 or F250 though.
Even has the orignal seat with Ford logo on the back, seat
worn though. 4 speed.

Decent running stock truck, $500 530-268-1708

Just a couple miles from me, so I can go check it out easily.

Located about 35 miles from Sacramento in the Sierra foothills.

Jeff '64 F100 CrewCab


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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:39:14 -0800 (PST)
From: canzus seanet.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Body mounts, a quiz :-)

At 06:25 AM 11:1:00 -0500, Peters, Gary (G.R.) wrote:
>I wonder what would happen with rhino liner for paint on those standoffs,
>would they last till I die? I'm thinking about just doing one at at time
>and blasting them and painting with several coats of imron, what do you
>think? I hate rust more than an unfaithfull woman......:-(
>

Hey Gary, I've got a buddy who Rhino-lined the underside and passenger
compartment of his Suzuki Samari a couple of years ago, before we stuffed
a B*ick 3.8L into it. He was building a serious rock crawler. Well, there's no
rust yet, and he can hose the damn thing out too....we see more mud 'round
here than rocks...

Steve & the Rockette
68 F100, 390cid, FMX
63 F100, 292cid, 3speed
72 Capri 2000, hers
73 Capri 2600,tube frame going in.....
73 MGB GT, Our Toy
94 SHO, SWMBO's
98 Contour SVT, Mine, Mine, All Mine....

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 00:30:34 -0500
From: frenz.6 osu.edu (Dale Frenz)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - For Sale:'79 F-150 S/C 4x4 & 460 kit

For Sale:

1979 F-150 XLT Supercab 4x4
Approx: 109,000 Miles

Body is above average condition, not "spotless" but good. Bed floor is the
usual.

351M V-8
New main bearing installed, new oil pump, new fuel pump.
Runs strong.

C-6 Automatic

Front and Rear leaf springs

31" tires, 75% tread

New brake pads, shoes, front calipers, and rear wheel cylinders


460 conversion "KIT" for your installation project Includes:

- - NOS Ford 460 bare block
- - '77 460 (complete)
- - rear sump oil pan, pick-up, support bolt
- - 460 "van" alternator bracket
- - 460 "truck" exhaust manifolds
- - L&L 460 motor mounts

Price: $3200.00

Interested parties should email me privately.

Dale Frenz
Columbus OH


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 00:21:27 -0800
From: John Lord home.com>
Subject: Re: Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 390 engine rebuild (propane)

You are correct.
In a gasoline carb, as you open the butterflies the effect of the venturi
draws gasoline into the intake system. the rest of the carb simply meters
the amount, mixture
and adds more during times of hard acceleration or low vacum.

The air being drawn through the propane mixer pulls the propane vapor from
the converter
through the mixer and into the intake system. the valve and spring assembly
in the converter
is so sensitive their is no need for power valves and accelerator pumps
(except for one model of propane mixer).
The type mentioned with the open ring is the most effective at this, the
other 2 popular brands have a tapered cone
in the top of the mixer that raises based on the amount of vacum inside the
venturi area. it helps to meter the flow of
propane by controlling the vacum that draws the propane vapor.

At some point when i can find use of a scanner i will find a place to post
all the diagrams and design and instalation
information that i have. I will also add performance tips and comments as to....


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