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Please do not repost, forward or otherwise publish messages contained in these archives without consent from the respective author(s). These archives may not, in whole or part, be stored on any public retrieval system (FTP, web, gopher, newsgroup, etc.) by individuals or companies, without consent of the respective authors. From: owner-61-79-list-digest  ford-trucks.com (61-79-list-digest) To: 61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com Subject: 61-79-list-digest V4 #16 Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com Sender: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com Errors-To: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com Precedence: bulk 61-79-list-digest Wednesday, January 12 2000 Volume 04 : Number 016 ======================================================================= Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe, send email to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list-digest" in the body of the message. ======================================================================= In this issue: Re: FTE 61-79 - fuel pump life FTE 61-79 - rattling and hard start FTE 61-79 - fuel pump FTE 61-79 - RE: gravity bleeding of brakes Re: FTE 61-79 - rattling and hard start FTE 61-79 - wild rides FTE 61-79 - fuel pumps by Methusalah RE: FTE 61-79 - rattling and hard start FTE 61-79 - low diffs vs od Re: FTE 61-79 - Fuel pump, M-blocks Re: FTE 61-79 - Say.....Ken, about that ford link... FTE 61-79 - re:rattling and hard start FTE 61-79 - P/S rebuild FTE 61-79 - Sump Main stud FTE 61-79 - EFI Fuel Pump #2 FTE 61-79 - '64 For Sale $500 RE: FTE 61-79 - Body mounts, a quiz :-) FTE 61-79 - For Sale:'79 F-150 S/C 4x4 & 460 kit Re: Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 390 engine rebuild (propane) ======================================================================= ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:07:13 -0700 From: "Kiernan, Denny" Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - fuel pump life John LaGrone wrote: > Bill's right. The pump I just replaced on Henry was the original making it > 20+ years old. If run lots of STP gas treatment and B12 Chemtool through it > over the years. I've never used STP or B12 Chemtool. I dont even know exactly what they're supposed to do. How widely used are they by the members of this list? And are they only for special set-ups, or for everybody? Denny '72 F-100 360 2WD Manual everything, 140K == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:06:30 -0600 From: "John LaGrone" Subject: FTE 61-79 - rattling and hard start >>The hard starting is a big block thing, 460's do it and 400/351's do it but it has to be within a certain time span after you shut them off. << Can't say about 460s, but my 351m was hard to turn over at certain times until I bought a 675cc amp battery. That's cold crank amps. If your timing is right and your starter is in good shape, it should spin and kick right off with a high amp battery. If your engine vibrates while running, you may have some loose brackets. My air conditioner compressor used to shake my truck to pieces, literally. A fast constant ticking while the truck is running at idle speed and not moving is probably in the valve train. An come and go tick may be a water pump or alternator bearing. All engines tick when you shut them off as the metal expands after coolant flow stops. Ticking noises are hard to find sometimes. Don't give up. - -- John jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-) 1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm Dearborn iron rules!!!! == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:13:55 -0600 From: "John LaGrone" Subject: FTE 61-79 - fuel pump >>John LsG writes: >> Next, start the bottom bolt, but do not tighten it. You should be applying pressure to make the bolt and holes line up. Henry's 351m had a stud and nut for the bottom fastener and a notch on the bottom of the fuel pump instead of a hole. If you have this configuration, install the stud, insert the fuel pump, then start the nut. Now go to the top hole and start that bolt<< Am I missing something here???? My fuel pumps all have horizonally parallell bolts!!!! Not familar with the 335 series(even though I have two of them in my garage), but I am FE and 385 Competent, and both of them have no top and bottom holes on the fuel pump. << No, Azie, you didn't miss anything. 351m is top/bottom as I described, at least mine is. I can't recall any other engine being top/bottom. All the general's stuff I remember was side to side. Top/bottom is much better IMHO. - -- John jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-) 1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm Dearborn iron rules!!!! == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:18:27 -0500 From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: gravity bleeding of brakes In response to a question from Pat: Well, I put it on the lift, remove all the wheels, drag my cart over to the right rear wheel and crack the bleeder with a clear hose attached and purge all the air out of the line by holding it up till all the bubbles are out and it is running fluid, then I stick it quickly into the open bottle half full of fluid and submerge the end so no air can be drawn back in. Since I previously wrapped the bleeders with gas teflon tape they don't let air in even when loose except via the opening so now I can just let it drip or actually press the pedal with my hand to push the fluid out. When you let up it draws clean fluid back in rather than air and a little from the MC too so you eventually do move the bubbles out this way. I've found that to get all the air out I usually have to give it a little push to "jar" the bubbles loose in the cylinders and fittings etc. but just letting it drip will get you fairly solid brakes. I put a step ladder up by the MC and keep it full as I go, not allowing any air to enter at the MC, ever.....I hate bleeding MC's :-( Opening a bleeder about 1/2 turn will drain the MC in about 5 minutes or less so watch it closely. You can't just walk away and let it "bleed" like a gut shot deer :-) I spent $100 on a fancy outfit to pressure bleed them when I was having trouble getting them to work (turned out to be the Proportioning/residual valve) but the old gravity bleed still works about as good as any I've tried but it will not dislodge hung bubbles so a mixture is what I usually use. If I have someone available I will use him (or her) but I usually don't. As to the fancy outfit, don't buy a Pheonix kit, it's a waste of money and the Mity Vac works just as well, is better made and comes with a vac gauge all for about half what I paid and didn't even get a gauge. Got a nice carrying case though :-) The one Sears sells for about $40 is a real keeper due to the brass body and quality parts in it, might be made by Mity Vac not sure. You can get them on sale for around $30. Only good thing I got out of this kit is one stinking bleeder fitting for the clear tube and the case, the rest was a waste of money IMNSHO :-( BTW, the Pickup has firmer brakes than the Bronco, probably due to the 4x4 front axle on the bronco, and it gravity bleeds beautifully, no pumping or anything. Dissertation, eh? Aint touch typing neat? You just go like blazes and next thing you know you got a screen full of "stuff" which may or may not be of value :-) - -- Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping, 78 Bronco Loving, Gary - -- > Hi Gary, > I read your posting on the new cab mounts and you > mentioned that you > had "Gravity bled the brakes again last night" > get a pedal pusher. Any solitary brake bleeding info that you > can share > would be much appreciated. (By the way, that dissertation on == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:25:37 -0800 From: wicowboy Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - rattling and hard start but my 351m was hard to turn over at certain times > until I bought a 675cc amp battery. That's cold crank amps. Must be from down south, i run 2 1200cca batteries to get my truck started........These big blocks don't like the COLD up here.... == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:35:50 -0600 From: "John LaGrone" Subject: FTE 61-79 - wild rides >>Everything that started out in the front seat was in the back seat, including the screwdriver that I'd used as a key. << Hahahaha. You're supposed to use the light switch from the living room. A resurrected Mustang once sported an ignition switch of this type. We didn't realize at the time it was a safety feature. Of course we rebuilt the front end steering linkage by hooking a chain and tractor to it and rolling it on its side, too. - -- John jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-) 1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm Dearborn iron rules!!!! == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:37:40 -0600 From: "John LaGrone" Subject: FTE 61-79 - fuel pumps by Methusalah >>Anyway that's my rant, for more info on the ethanol thing see http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.ethanol.org/ethanol_racing.html And its not just 'cause I'm in Iowa!<< Sure it is!!! I don't have a problem with alcohol in fuel and I don't think it will effect the life of your fuel pump to use it which is what I meant to be conveying in my original post. I have burned ethanol blend when visiting states where it is available and it was OK. >>>Especially Ethanol.....:-) Blind and wrapped around a tree.....<< If you drink denatured alcohol (ethanol), one of the side effects is blindness. Next is death. >>The story I heard about ethanol is that the alcohol attacks the heavy metals in the carb, copper, tin (I'll catch it for this), lead, zink etc. found in brass and bronze parts so a different material is needed for jets, needles and seats etc...Never heard anything about rubber parts being affected :-)<< I've heard that ethanol destroys rubber parts in the fuel system due to its similarities to water. I have no actual experience to refute or support this claim. - -- John jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-) 1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm Dearborn iron rules!!!! == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:47:20 -0600 From: "William S. Hart" Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - rattling and hard start > but my 351m was hard to turn over at certain times > > until I bought a 675cc amp battery. That's cold crank amps. > > Must be from down south, i run 2 1200cca batteries to get my truck > started........These big blocks don't like the COLD up here.... Hahhaaha ..yeah that was my first thought too :) I think its getting time to change my 975cca out, I'll be sad to see it go though, its lasted 4 years or so and has jumpstarted more cars than I can count, along with starting my 360 in -50 weather one time ... wow it was cold that day and of course my sister's FI V6 wouldn't start (dead battery) and her roommates car wouldn't start (hundai so even if it started, then what ?) ... Mine was one of three moving at 8 oclock that morning, the other 2 were 4cyls wondering how my lumbering V8 got started :) Just my $.02 wish 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:51:27 -0600 From: "John LaGrone" Subject: FTE 61-79 - low diffs vs od Gary, I thought of another possible problem with a low number diff and a properly geared tranny for a 1:1 output. If you stomp it to pass it wouldn't have any guts without dropping several gears. Dropping more than one gear is hard to do in a hydraulic system and it takes time for each shift. It seems the buying public thinks they are all race drivers now days so that this combo might not sell well. My uncle always said you could scatter an auto by downshifting too early while pulling a steep hill. He said that eventually the bands would snap. Besides, Overdrive is a buzz word now and most people think they want it. There are numerous examples of marketing for one company being so successful that the entire industry thinks they have to follow suit. I personally prefer the wide ratio C6 and low diff to the OD setup, especially in a truck. - -- John jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-) 1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm Dearborn iron rules!!!! == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:44:35 -0800 From: "Jeff Norville" Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Fuel pump, M-blocks > John LsG writes: >> Next, start the bottom bolt, but > do not tighten it. You should be applying pressure to make the bolt and > holes line up. Henry's 351m had a stud and nut for the bottom fastener and > a > notch on the bottom of the fuel pump instead of a hole....<< > Azie querries: Am I missing something here???? My fuel pumps all have > horizonally > parallell bolts!!!! Not familar with the 335 series(even though I have two > of them in my garage), but I am FE and 385 Competent, and both of them have > no top and bottom holes on the fuel pump. Jeff suggests: Can't remember which motor the pump was replaced on in original post, but I think all 385 series motors have the horizonal pump bolt pattern, the 335s (at least the 351 & 400 M-blocks that I am familiar with) have a vertical bolt pattern. Makes it super nice and easy to install the pump per Azie's directions (bolts line up with direction of resistance from cam). I didn't spin my motor when installing the fuel pump, but then the bock was on a stand with no timing cover, making things pretty easy to see... My M-block no longer had the stud but a bolt instead - suppose the stud would make things even happier doing an underhood install. After all the personal agonizing done before swapping in the 400M for the stock, worn out 351M, I am pretty happy with my decision. Yes, 460 would've been nifty. But this block is lighter. Better economy? A little. EASY to find parts for here in Ca's fruit basket, where every farmer has retired one or two late 70s f150 to a local boneyard. And, in spite of one of the most confusing vac diagrams I have read (after reading my wiring diagram), it seems to run smoothly through the rpms (oh for a clutch fan), and idles very cleanly (warm the globe!). Jeff Whose new fad is getting off topic to express feelings that m-blocks are underrated in terms of reliability (sorry!) == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:17:10 -0500 From: Ken Payne Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Say.....Ken, about that ford link... >From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" >To: "'61-79-list ford-trucks.com'" <61-79-list ford-trucks.com> >Subject: FTE 61-79 - Say.....Ken, about that ford link... >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:00:07 -0500 > >Now that you are a big shot and have all this power how about a direct link >to one of ford's sites where they take complaints? - -snip- Actually, I only have access to their press agent site. Dealers also have a private site. I do however, have a few email addresses inside of Ford but I certainly don't want to abuse the trust of those who gave them to me. Picture this, you're a Ford employee, and suddenly your email address gets listed as a complaint address... with millions of Fords out there, your mailbox would soon collapse! I will, however, ask of Mr. Masone of Ford's plans with respect to public interaction of problems and/or suggestions on the net. Ken == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:55:25 -0700 From: "Greg Sage" Subject: FTE 61-79 - re:rattling and hard start I don't think the Wife would go for that as I have a small lot in the city. Have to get an acreage first...hehe. I have thought of that though, buddy has a 79 Bronco with a 351M in it for 500 bucks I could use for parts. Ran it past the Wife and she wasn't impressed. Thanks to all that posted. Going to look at the timing chain this weekend. Greg Sage (M/M/29) Calgary, Alberta Canada 78 F150 2WD REGULAR CAB 351M/400 C6 Hi Greg, Can't help you with the engine problems but maybe I can with the replacement stuff. New engine!! Buy a beater rust bucket with a good engine for $500Cdn. and stick it in. You'll not only get the engine, but all the little bits and pieces that you can strip off of it, all of which come in handy at some point. I've found that you can buy the complete truck for a lot less than you can buy a cab, tranny, motor or what have you. Patsplace 78 F-150 W/Overloads 77 F-250 4X4 79 F-250 4X4 Dream Truck Under Way 72 F150 Ranger parts truck 79 F250 Lariat donor vech. for the '79 4X4 == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:35:10 -0800 From: "S.Harkema" Subject: FTE 61-79 - P/S rebuild >Does anyone know a source for rebuilding p/s boxes? L and M Power Steering Reno NV 775 353 3777 All work is performed by and guarateed by the owner. He ain't cheap tho.......... == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:16:47 -0600 From: ballingr bootheel.net Subject: FTE 61-79 - Sump Main stud Would anyone have a spare main bolt for a 4X4 FE that has the stud for bolting the pick-up to. I have one in my other engine, but I don't want to break into it yet. Please email me privately if you do. Thanks. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 02:23:10 GMT From: davewild tc3net.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - EFI Fuel Pump #2 I may not have made myself to clear when I wrote the first message. (I'm new at this) My plan is to put an EFI 4.9 six into my 78'. I am trying to figure out the best way to rig up the older trucks fuel system to work with the EFI. My dad has an 87' with this engine in it. It has an in tank pump which is low pressure and he just had to get a new one and it cost about $160 new from Ford. It then has a high pres. pump mounted to the frame rail which supplies the high pres. needed for the EFI(45-60lbs I don't know off hand). Any way I wanted to know if I could get just a high pressure pump that could do the job because I don' want to get a new tank that would accept the newer model fuel pump. I just wanted to solder in a return line into my sender and use one pump or two a low and a high but out of the tank. OR would it be better to get the new tank and use the same setup as on the newer trucks? I just didn't know of anyone who made a high pres. fuel pump for EFI. I appreciate all your help. This project is still in planning hoping to start this spring just trying to think of as many problems as I possibly can. Dave Wild 78' F150 Custom 300six 3 on the tree == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:31:33 -0800 From: Carver Subject: FTE 61-79 - '64 For Sale $500 I have an open ended ad in a really local paper asking for parts for a '64. I could probably have 3 more '64 trucks by now, but I'm lazy. Got a call tonight, Matt wants to sell his '64, 262 inline 6 special ordered, originally purchased by his sister-in-law's dad. Have original receipts from dealer. Stock except with flatbed. Didn't ask if it was an F100 or F250 though. Even has the orignal seat with Ford logo on the back, seat worn though. 4 speed. Decent running stock truck, $500 530-268-1708 Just a couple miles from me, so I can go check it out easily. Located about 35 miles from Sacramento in the Sierra foothills. Jeff '64 F100 CrewCab == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:39:14 -0800 (PST) From: canzus seanet.com Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Body mounts, a quiz :-) At 06:25 AM 11:1:00 -0500, Peters, Gary (G.R.) wrote: >I wonder what would happen with rhino liner for paint on those standoffs, >would they last till I die? I'm thinking about just doing one at at time >and blasting them and painting with several coats of imron, what do you >think? I hate rust more than an unfaithfull woman......:-( > Hey Gary, I've got a buddy who Rhino-lined the underside and passenger compartment of his Suzuki Samari a couple of years ago, before we stuffed a B*ick 3.8L into it. He was building a serious rock crawler. Well, there's no rust yet, and he can hose the damn thing out too....we see more mud 'round here than rocks... Steve & the Rockette 68 F100, 390cid, FMX 63 F100, 292cid, 3speed 72 Capri 2000, hers 73 Capri 2600,tube frame going in..... 73 MGB GT, Our Toy 94 SHO, SWMBO's 98 Contour SVT, Mine, Mine, All Mine.... == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 00:30:34 -0500 From: frenz.6 osu.edu (Dale Frenz) Subject: FTE 61-79 - For Sale:'79 F-150 S/C 4x4 & 460 kit For Sale: 1979 F-150 XLT Supercab 4x4 Approx: 109,000 Miles Body is above average condition, not "spotless" but good. Bed floor is the usual. 351M V-8 New main bearing installed, new oil pump, new fuel pump. Runs strong. C-6 Automatic Front and Rear leaf springs 31" tires, 75% tread New brake pads, shoes, front calipers, and rear wheel cylinders 460 conversion "KIT" for your installation project Includes: - - NOS Ford 460 bare block - - '77 460 (complete) - - rear sump oil pan, pick-up, support bolt - - 460 "van" alternator bracket - - 460 "truck" exhaust manifolds - - L&L 460 motor mounts Price: $3200.00 Interested parties should email me privately. Dale Frenz Columbus OH == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 00:21:27 -0800 From: John Lord Subject: Re: Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 390 engine rebuild (propane) You are correct. In a gasoline carb, as you open the butterflies the effect of the venturi draws gasoline into the intake system. the rest of the carb simply meters the amount, mixture and adds more during times of hard acceleration or low vacum. The air being drawn through the propane mixer pulls the propane vapor from the converter through the mixer and into the intake system. the valve and spring assembly in the converter is so sensitive their is no need for power valves and accelerator pumps (except for one model of propane mixer). The type mentioned with the open ring is the most effective at this, the other 2 popular brands have a tapered cone in the top of the mixer that raises based on the amount of vacum inside the venturi area. it helps to meter the flow of propane by controlling the vacum that draws the propane vapor. At some point when i can find use of a scanner i will find a place to post all the diagrams and design and instalation information that i have. I will also add performance tips and comments as to.... To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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