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From: owner-61-79-list-digest  ford-trucks.com (61-79-list-digest) To: 61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com Subject: 61-79-list-digest V4 #9 Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com Sender: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com Errors-To: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com Precedence: bulk 61-79-list-digest Friday, January 7 2000 Volume 04 : Number 009 ======================================================================= Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe, send email to: majordomo ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list-digest" in the body of the message. ======================================================================= In this issue: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 vrs 400 motor Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 FE VS the new 5.4 RE: FTE 61-79 - 390 FE VS the new 5.4 FTE 61-79 - Big trks diff than p/ups FTE 61-79 - FE early 60's RE: FTE 61-79 - steam FTE 61-79 - direct FTE 61-79 - cruze-o-matic, to be or not to be Re: FTE 61-79 - steam Re: FTE 61-79 - Big trks diff than p/ups Re: FTE 61-79 - 360 FE Doubts FTE 61-79 - Rear differential questions. Re: FTE 61-79 - tonneau cover FTE 61-79 - Near Perfect 69 For Sale $1500 Plus others Re: FTE 61-79 - Big trks diff than p/ups Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 vrs 400 motor Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Headshake(long) FTE 61-79 - tonneau cover FTE 61-79 - Re: 351 vrs 400 motor FTE 61-79 - Re: 351 vrs 400 motor FTE 61-79 - splines FTE 61-79 - Elec fuel pump - filters? ======================================================================= ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:40:28 -0800 From: "Bill Beyer" Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 vrs 400 motor Couple of things...questions really...what does the truck have in it now? Which 351, M or W, does the 77 car have? These are important because the 400 has the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the 351M but not the 351W. If the truck had a 302 or six banger then the bellhousing bolt pattern would be the same as the 351W. If they are both M blocks then go for the 400...it can be built quite strong. If the truck had a 302 or six then you will need to change the tranny too or find yourself a 351W. "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets" - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Williams To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 11:12 AM Subject: FTE 61-79 - 351 vrs 400 motor > Hi, > I am looking at a 1974 Ford LTD with a 400 and a 1977 LTD with a 351. > I want to put the motor in a 1978 F-150 4x4. I can get the 1977 351 car for > $100.00 or the 1974 400 car for $200.00. > I am looking for some feedback as to which is the better motor to put in the > Pickup and why. > Thanks in advance for any info. > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:39:32 -0600 From: "Jason & Kathy Kendrick" Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 FE VS the new 5.4 Assuming both trucks were geared the same, weighed the same, and both got the same amount of traction to the ground, I wouldn't want to guess. I will be cheering for the FE, though! Jason A Bernal wrote: > > Ok. one question: > If someone were to put a 97 f-150 4x4 5.4L SOHC and a 77 f-100 4x4 390cid > (6.4L i think) and put a heavy chain on attached to both chassis (in the > back) and both trucks started pulling each other, WHO would win? (Even if > both, or the winner blows his own motor winning) == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:44:05 -0600 From: "William S. Hart" Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 390 FE VS the new 5.4 > Ok. one question: > If someone were to put a 97 f-150 4x4 5.4L SOHC and a 77 f-100 4x4 390cid > (6.4L i think) and put a heavy chain on attached to both chassis (in the > back) and both trucks started pulling each other, WHO would win? (Even if > both, or the winner blows his own motor winning) > The guy with the better traction. Just my $.02 wish 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:28:29 -0500 From: "Gary L. Perry" Subject: FTE 61-79 - Big trks diff than p/ups You guys like your FE engines, but the large HD FE's are VERY different than the p/ups use. They came in 330, 359,361,391, maybe others I don't know. The cranks have bigger pilot bearing holes, the timing chain covers are way different and need different w/pumps and carbs are "weird" with governors and Dizzies have two large vacumm lines and all sorts of other weird things. I was going to put p/up style parts on my HD 359 to use in Coe for rad. clearance and found out it couldn't be done. Mine even has a dual thermostat housing but don't know why? AND my trans has a LARGE shaft (clutch splines the same) on end for pilot bearing in crank. I'ld bet it's 1" or better. "G" == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:42:19 -0500 From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE early 60's Daniel writes: >>so what was the displacement of the motors ford ran in the early sixties against the chevy 409's in nascar? i want to say 406?? was that an FE motor??<< Yep !!!! 406 was introduced in '62. 427 came out in '63(later than at launch but before mid year).. Both FE's - both really good engines for running, longevity and reliability, and really did not get that bad gas mileage provided you drove them the same as you would any "family sedan"..... Azie Ardmore, Al. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:05:14 -0800 From: "Hogan, Tom" Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - steam > -----Original Message----- > From: John LaGrone [mailto:jlagrone ford-trucks.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 9:46 AM > To: -FordTruckDigest > Subject: FTE 61-79 - steam > > > >>Well, I'll be hanged. You mean then that clouds are formed > by the steam > coming off the earth? Even when the temperature outside is zero?<< > > More or less. Most people think of steam as coming off of > boiling water. > Vaporous water or water vapor can form at many temperatures > depending on the > temperature, humidity, pressure, etc. Water will evaporate when the > conditions are right. Clothes dryers, hair dryers, fill in > your own dryer > make water vapor. None of them boil in the sense of putting a > pot on the > stove. Your defroster clears condensation from your windshield. > > I think I better shush. > Also I have seen ice evaporate (turn to vapor). I forget what it is called when water goes directly from solid to vapor. We had broken ice off a stock tank and left the pieces lying on the ground. The temp was around zero constant and the ice was pretty well in the shade all day and the stock couldn't get to it. In a couple of days the chunks were almost gone. That way we didn't have to haul them away in our Ford truck. Tom H == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:24:40 -0500 From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - direct Tlm H. writes: >>Is the 1:1 gear in older transmissions a straight through shaft?<< I ain't Gary, but yes in any standard transmission where high gear is 1:1, then it is straight thru shafts coupled by a sliding gear. The cluster gears( that group of gears along the side and parallel to input and output shafts) just go along for the ride in hi gear(direct). They are there for the lower and reverse only. This may not be true of litterally all transmissions, but it is for all I've been in and that is litterally hundreds - autos - industrial - farm medium and semi heavy duty trucks. For sure it covers all the 61-79 standard trannys in our F series trucks. Azie Ardmore, Al. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:44:19 EST From: A61fordtruck aol.com Subject: FTE 61-79 - cruze-o-matic, to be or not to be Hey everybody, I told you all about my new '65 a while back. The original 352 is still bolted up to the orginal (but dead) cruze-o-matic. In your esteemed opinions, is that Cruze-o-matic worth keeping (after all, it just died last year) or should I go with the more modern C6? also, what modifications have to happen to swap, if any if i choose the C6 route? thanks for your input Greg '61 ex airforce stepside '65 custom cab == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:17:27 -0700 From: "Kiernan, Denny" Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - steam John LaGrone wrote: > > >>Well, I'll be hanged. You mean then that clouds are formed by the steam > coming off the earth? Even when the temperature outside is zero?<< > > More or less. Most people think of steam as coming off of boiling water. > Vaporous water or water vapor can form at many temperatures depending on the > temperature, humidity, pressure, etc. Water will evaporate when the > conditions are right. Clothes dryers, hair dryers, fill in your own dryer > make water vapor. None of them boil in the sense of putting a pot on the > stove. Your defroster clears condensation from your windshield. > > I think I better shush. > > -- John I imagine there'd be more clouds floating above cattle ranches than just about anywhere else. == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:41:12 -0500 From: "G.T. Herpich" Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Big trks diff than p/ups The dual thermostats are for flow. The crank is also steel and has a much larger snout. The red line is 3500. These (FT) motors where real workhorses. I was a mechanic on an aging fleet of L600 single axle and L800 tandem dump trucks (they were being replaced by Macks) and it was really asking a lot of that little motor to pull a load like that. The 361s in the 600s would go 100,000 miles while the 391 800s would get about 35,000 max. I used "Fred Jones"( authorized Ford remanufacturer) long blocks in standard bore only. Over bored blocks just didn't hold up. Just some FT trivia. Hope I didn't bore anyone to sleep:) George "Gary L. Perry" wrote: > You guys like your FE engines, but the large HD FE's are VERY > different than the p/ups use. They came in 330, 359,361,391, maybe > others I don't know. The cranks have bigger pilot bearing holes, > the timing chain covers are way different and need different w/pumps > and carbs are "weird" with governors and Dizzies have two large > vacumm lines and all sorts of other weird things. I was going to put > p/up style parts on my HD 359 to use in Coe for rad. clearance and > found out it couldn't be done. Mine even has a dual thermostat housing > but don't know why? AND my trans has a LARGE shaft (clutch splines > the same) on end for pilot bearing in crank. I'ld bet it's 1" or better. > "G" > > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:47:35 -0500 From: "G.T. Herpich" Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 360 FE Doubts The FT crank is the only way to go with that setup. That motor is so over square it just begs for ultra high rpms. BTW, with a standard bore, our motor P&G'd at 396. George H > > > I've been thinking about this earlier. A 427 bore and a 360 crank will > yeild 393 cubes. I've been wanting to put one together but 427 blocks ain't > cheap and there are no guarantees on used parts. :0( > > Tom H > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:36:36 -0600 From: "Steve Beadle" Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear differential questions. I have a 1979 Ford F150 with axle code 12 . I got the gear ratio (2.73) from the VIN decoder on the classicpickups.com site. I need to know if the diff has 28 or 31 spline axles. Also, I would like to know the range of years of trucks (F100-F250) that the center section would be a bolt-in swap for my 1979. Thanks for any help. Steve == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:47:41 -0800 From: Mike Pacheco Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - tonneau cover I bought a nice one from Gem top, they will fabricate one that will fit with the tool box in place. I put this on a 72' F-100 long box. e-mail me off line and I'll send you a few pictures. Mike in Burien == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:11:21 -0800 From: Carver Subject: FTE 61-79 - Near Perfect 69 For Sale $1500 Plus others Spotted these in the local Grass Valley paper, and thought I'd pass them along: 1969 1/2 ton long bed, 360 engine, 83,000 original miles, Truck in near perfect condition $1500 Firm 530-273-4990 and while were at it, here's some more Ford goodies from the same source: '68 Ford 428 block and rods, standard bore $300 OBO 530-273-4044 '75 Ford Ranchero good condition, new tires, runs good, $1800 obo, 530-292-1934 '69 Ford Falcon Futura/Sprint Rare car too many extras to list $4500 530-273-5685 '74 F250 390 eng 4 sp, runs great xlnt work truck, $1500 or offer 530-639-0334 Don't know anything about any of these except what you read here. I'd be willing to go look at the trucks, but I'm not an expert. As for looking at the engine, you'd be better off finding someone else. Jeff '64 F100 CrewCab == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:26:28 EST From: SevnD2 aol.com Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Big trks diff than p/ups In a message dated 01/06/2000 3:34:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, glperry fwi.com writes: < < You guys like your FE engines, but the large HD FE's are VERY different than the p/ups use. They came in 330, 359,361,391, maybe others I don't know. > > Do you mean the FE's compared to what I have heard them referred to as FT's ? Rollie . == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:37:02 EST From: GMontgo930 aol.com Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 vrs 400 motor Go 400. IF you must settle for the 351 (im assuming it's an M block here) then you can upgrade it to a 400 by swapping the crank with a 400s. If it's a W or C, then you'll be stuck with the 351 ci for the most part. Crank trick won't work in it. George M In a message dated 1/6/2000 2:16:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, tjwilli megavision.com writes: > Hi, > I am looking at a 1974 Ford LTD with a 400 and a 1977 LTD with a 351. > I want to put the motor in a 1978 F-150 4x4. I can get the 1977 351 car for > $100.00 or the 1974 400 car for $200.00. > I am looking for some feedback as to which is the better motor to put in the > Pickup and why. > Thanks in advance for any info. > > Tom > Columbus, NE == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:00:40 -0800 (PST) From: canzus seanet.com Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Headshake(long) At 10:30 PM 5:1:00 -0800, Chris Samuel wrote: >-> I can't argue with anyone who has raced and I can't argue with >-> book specs in >-> a Ford shop manual but I've experienced what I've experienced >-> and recall the >-> toe out thing from the class so don't think I am trying to run this >-> discussion, I'm looking for more input :-) > >Let's see I have raced, and I'll argue (and have) with anyone (can ya tell) >until they make sense! I only use the shop manual for the most basic >reference and exploded parts drawings. And if I don't make sense, stick my >foot in mouth, or your experience is different well then, we discuss, or we >don't, and ether way we all still drive Ford Trucks and in that we have >common ground and friendship. > >Peace >Muel I have raced, and won a time or two, in an abomination, AKA the Mini Cooper. I remember the suspension being set to toe in to accelerate, and toe out to corner, at the same time. Basically at normal ride height the car would have 0 toe, but when you loaded the suspension (braking) it would have 1/8+ toe out. And when you unloaded the suspension, it would toe in an 1/8+. Yes, Henry would prolly look down his nose at FWDers, but they are a huge KITA to drive when set up correctly.... Steve & the Rockette 68 F100, 390cid, FMX 63 F100, 292cid, 3speed 72 Capri 2000, hers 73 Capri 2600,tube frame going in..... 73 MGB GT, Our Toy 94 SHO, SWMBO's 98 Contour SVT, Mine, Mine, All Mine.... == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:55:35 -0500 From: "Redden" Subject: FTE 61-79 - tonneau cover A soft tonneau would work great if your box is under the rail. I imagine that you can get a custom one. I think Gaylord's makes a hard lid that is designed to be used with an across the bed toolbox. It has a hinge down the middle, giving you access from either side of the truck (the fiberglass lids are about twice as much money). Gaylord's seems to cater to older trucks, BTW. I'm buying an extang (www.extang.com) for my '71 longbed. It's a soft tonneau that has the aforementioned clamps so you don't have to drill the bed rails (my truck had lots of holes to be filled in the rails). Since I currently don't have a box, I may get the style that sits inside the bed so I can use the soft tonneau and still lock stuff in the toolbox. California Concepts has a website that shows a number of lid styles: www.calconcepts.com Mike == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:48:16 -0800 (PST) From: Chad Morris Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351 vrs 400 motor The choice between 351M and the 400 is just a choice between fuel economy vrs power. Granted, however there is not much difference because they both average around 10 mpg. If you are wanting more power I would definately go for the 400. Your main concern would be the conditions of the engines in these 2 cars. Kevin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://im.yahoo.com == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:48:16 -0800 (PST) From: Chad Morris Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351 vrs 400 motor The choice between 351M and the 400 is just a choice between fuel economy vrs power. Granted, however there is not much difference because they both average around 10 mpg. If you are wanting more power I would definately go for the 400. Your main concern would be the conditions of the engines in these 2 cars. Kevin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://im.yahoo.com == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:51:15 -0800 From: "bronco66" Subject: FTE 61-79 - splines did 72 f100 4x4 come with 28 or 31 spline rear axles? And is it a big bearing or small bearing? - ----- Original Message ----- From: William S. Hart To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 8:11 AM Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - rebuild q's--finally!! > > > Good suggestion to have the bores checked before taking them out that far. > > I would point out thogh that the 428 bore is "60 over" a 360/390 > > bore. They > > may have cast a 428 block differently to give it more material at > > this size. > > Does anyone know if the 428 block was cast differently? > > Aren't they .080 over on a 390 ? 4.05 vs 4.13 ? At least that's the info > I've got ... hey a 428 is only 426.5 .... a 427 isn't quite that even is it > ? > > Nope, 424.9 ...must've been a 425cubic inch rule huh ? ;) > > ever wish they would show the real displacements ? > > FYI 390 = 389.57 > 360 = 360.71 > > Just my $.02 > wish > > 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L > 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L > http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish > > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 23:49:19 -0800 From: "Jeff Norville" Subject: FTE 61-79 - Elec fuel pump - filters? So I am trying the dual fuel pump thingy that was discussed a couple of weeks back - electric pump at the rear near the tank on a dash switch, backing up the standard pump. The old "if one is good two is better" philosophy. Question is where to put the fuel filter(s)? I would like to use two - bought those clear glass filters with little plastic shield - they're nearly 3.5" long I think. Pretty long to fit.... To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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