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From: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com (61-79-list-digest)
To: 61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: 61-79-list-digest V4 #9
Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Sender: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com
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61-79-list-digest Friday, January 7 2000 Volume 04 : Number 009



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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To unsubscribe, send email to:
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 vrs 400 motor
Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 FE VS the new 5.4
RE: FTE 61-79 - 390 FE VS the new 5.4
FTE 61-79 - Big trks diff than p/ups
FTE 61-79 - FE early 60's
RE: FTE 61-79 - steam
FTE 61-79 - direct
FTE 61-79 - cruze-o-matic, to be or not to be
Re: FTE 61-79 - steam
Re: FTE 61-79 - Big trks diff than p/ups
Re: FTE 61-79 - 360 FE Doubts
FTE 61-79 - Rear differential questions.
Re: FTE 61-79 - tonneau cover
FTE 61-79 - Near Perfect 69 For Sale $1500 Plus others
Re: FTE 61-79 - Big trks diff than p/ups
Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 vrs 400 motor
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Headshake(long)
FTE 61-79 - tonneau cover
FTE 61-79 - Re: 351 vrs 400 motor
FTE 61-79 - Re: 351 vrs 400 motor
FTE 61-79 - splines
FTE 61-79 - Elec fuel pump - filters?

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:40:28 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer" pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 vrs 400 motor

Couple of things...questions really...what does the truck have in it now?
Which 351, M or W, does the 77 car have? These are important because the 400
has the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the 351M but not the 351W. If the
truck had a 302 or six banger then the bellhousing bolt pattern would be the
same as the 351W. If they are both M blocks then go for the 400...it can be
built quite strong. If the truck had a 302 or six then you will need to
change the tranny too or find yourself a 351W.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Williams megavision.com>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 11:12 AM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 351 vrs 400 motor


> Hi,
> I am looking at a 1974 Ford LTD with a 400 and a 1977 LTD with a 351.
> I want to put the motor in a 1978 F-150 4x4. I can get the 1977 351 car
for
> $100.00 or the 1974 400 car for $200.00.
> I am looking for some feedback as to which is the better motor to put in
the
> Pickup and why.
> Thanks in advance for any info.
>



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:39:32 -0600
From: "Jason & Kathy Kendrick" mddc.com>
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 FE VS the new 5.4

Assuming both trucks were geared the same, weighed the same, and both
got the same amount of traction to the ground, I wouldn't want to guess.
I will be cheering for the FE, though!

Jason

A Bernal wrote:
>
> Ok. one question:
> If someone were to put a 97 f-150 4x4 5.4L SOHC and a 77 f-100 4x4 390cid
> (6.4L i think) and put a heavy chain on attached to both chassis (in the
> back) and both trucks started pulling each other, WHO would win? (Even if
> both, or the winner blows his own motor winning)
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:44:05 -0600
From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 390 FE VS the new 5.4

> Ok. one question:
> If someone were to put a 97 f-150 4x4 5.4L SOHC and a 77 f-100 4x4 390cid
> (6.4L i think) and put a heavy chain on attached to both chassis (in the
> back) and both trucks started pulling each other, WHO would win? (Even if
> both, or the winner blows his own motor winning)
>

The guy with the better traction.

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:28:29 -0500
From: "Gary L. Perry" fwi.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Big trks diff than p/ups

You guys like your FE engines, but the large HD FE's are VERY
different than the p/ups use. They came in 330, 359,361,391, maybe
others I don't know. The cranks have bigger pilot bearing holes,
the timing chain covers are way different and need different w/pumps
and carbs are "weird" with governors and Dizzies have two large
vacumm lines and all sorts of other weird things. I was going to put
p/up style parts on my HD 359 to use in Coe for rad. clearance and
found out it couldn't be done. Mine even has a dual thermostat housing
but don't know why? AND my trans has a LARGE shaft (clutch splines
the same) on end for pilot bearing in crank. I'ld bet it's 1" or better.
"G"

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:42:19 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE early 60's

Daniel writes: >>so what was the displacement of the motors ford ran in
the early
sixties against the chevy 409's in nascar? i want to say 406??
was that an FE motor??<<

Yep !!!! 406 was introduced in '62. 427 came out in '63(later than at
launch but before mid year).. Both FE's - both really good engines for
running, longevity and reliability, and really did not get that bad gas
mileage provided you drove them the same as you would any "family
sedan".....

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:05:14 -0800
From: "Hogan, Tom" kla-tencor.com>
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - steam

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John LaGrone [mailto:jlagrone ford-trucks.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 9:46 AM
> To: -FordTruckDigest
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - steam
>
>
> >>Well, I'll be hanged. You mean then that clouds are formed
> by the steam
> coming off the earth? Even when the temperature outside is zero?<<
>
> More or less. Most people think of steam as coming off of
> boiling water.
> Vaporous water or water vapor can form at many temperatures
> depending on the
> temperature, humidity, pressure, etc. Water will evaporate when the
> conditions are right. Clothes dryers, hair dryers, fill in
> your own dryer
> make water vapor. None of them boil in the sense of putting a
> pot on the
> stove. Your defroster clears condensation from your windshield.
>
> I think I better shush.
>

Also I have seen ice evaporate (turn to vapor). I forget what it is called
when water goes directly from solid to vapor. We had broken ice off a stock
tank and left the pieces lying on the ground. The temp was around zero
constant and the ice was pretty well in the shade all day and the stock
couldn't get to it. In a couple of days the chunks were almost gone. That
way we didn't have to haul them away in our Ford truck.

Tom H
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:24:40 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - direct

Tlm H. writes: >>Is the 1:1 gear in older transmissions a straight through
shaft?<<

I ain't Gary, but yes in any standard transmission where high gear is 1:1,
then it is straight thru shafts coupled by a sliding gear. The cluster
gears( that group of gears along the side and parallel to input and output
shafts) just go along for the ride in hi gear(direct). They are there for
the lower and reverse only. This may not be true of litterally all
transmissions, but it is for all I've been in and that is litterally
hundreds - autos - industrial - farm medium and semi heavy duty trucks.
For sure it covers all the 61-79 standard trannys in our F series trucks.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:44:19 EST
From: A61fordtruck aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - cruze-o-matic, to be or not to be

Hey everybody,

I told you all about my new '65 a while back. The original 352 is still
bolted up to the orginal (but dead) cruze-o-matic. In your esteemed
opinions, is that Cruze-o-matic worth keeping (after all, it just died last
year) or should I go with the more modern C6? also, what modifications have
to happen to swap, if any if i choose the C6 route?

thanks for your input
Greg
'61 ex airforce stepside
'65 custom cab
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:17:27 -0700
From: "Kiernan, Denny" wenet.net>
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - steam

John LaGrone wrote:
>
> >>Well, I'll be hanged. You mean then that clouds are formed by the steam
> coming off the earth? Even when the temperature outside is zero?<<
>
> More or less. Most people think of steam as coming off of boiling water.
> Vaporous water or water vapor can form at many temperatures depending on the
> temperature, humidity, pressure, etc. Water will evaporate when the
> conditions are right. Clothes dryers, hair dryers, fill in your own dryer
> make water vapor. None of them boil in the sense of putting a pot on the
> stove. Your defroster clears condensation from your windshield.
>
> I think I better shush.
>
> -- John

I imagine there'd be more clouds floating above cattle ranches than just
about anywhere else.
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:41:12 -0500
From: "G.T. Herpich" bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Big trks diff than p/ups

The dual thermostats are for flow. The crank is also steel and has a much
larger snout.
The red line is 3500.
These (FT) motors where real workhorses. I was a mechanic on an aging fleet
of
L600 single axle and L800 tandem dump trucks (they were being replaced by
Macks)
and it was really asking a lot of that little motor to pull a load like
that. The 361s
in the 600s would go 100,000 miles while the 391 800s would get about 35,000

max. I used "Fred Jones"( authorized Ford remanufacturer) long blocks in
standard bore
only. Over bored blocks just didn't hold up.
Just some FT trivia. Hope I didn't bore anyone to sleep:)

George



"Gary L. Perry" wrote:

> You guys like your FE engines, but the large HD FE's are VERY
> different than the p/ups use. They came in 330, 359,361,391, maybe
> others I don't know. The cranks have bigger pilot bearing holes,
> the timing chain covers are way different and need different w/pumps
> and carbs are "weird" with governors and Dizzies have two large
> vacumm lines and all sorts of other weird things. I was going to put
> p/up style parts on my HD 359 to use in Coe for rad. clearance and
> found out it couldn't be done. Mine even has a dual thermostat housing
> but don't know why? AND my trans has a LARGE shaft (clutch splines
> the same) on end for pilot bearing in crank. I'ld bet it's 1" or better.
> "G"
>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:47:35 -0500
From: "G.T. Herpich" bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 360 FE Doubts

The FT crank is the only way to go with that setup. That motor is so over square

it just begs for ultra high rpms.
BTW, with a standard bore, our motor P&G'd at 396.

George H

> >
> I've been thinking about this earlier. A 427 bore and a 360 crank will
> yeild 393 cubes. I've been wanting to put one together but 427 blocks ain't
> cheap and there are no guarantees on used parts. :0(
>
> Tom H
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:36:36 -0600
From: "Steve Beadle" mindspring.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear differential questions.

I have a 1979 Ford F150 with axle code 12 . I got the gear ratio (2.73)
from the VIN decoder on the classicpickups.com site. I need to know if the
diff has 28 or 31 spline axles. Also, I would like to know the range of
years of trucks (F100-F250) that the center section would be a bolt-in swap
for my 1979. Thanks for any help. Steve

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:47:41 -0800
From: Mike Pacheco USWEST.NET>
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - tonneau cover

I bought a nice one from Gem top, they will fabricate one that will fit
with the tool box in place.
I put this on a 72' F-100 long box. e-mail me off line and I'll send you
a few pictures.
Mike in Burien
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:11:21 -0800
From: Carver ncwebsurfer.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Near Perfect 69 For Sale $1500 Plus others

Spotted these in the local Grass Valley paper,
and thought I'd pass them along:

1969 1/2 ton long bed, 360 engine, 83,000 original
miles, Truck in near perfect condition $1500 Firm
530-273-4990

and while were at it, here's some more Ford goodies
from the same source:

'68 Ford 428 block and rods, standard bore
$300 OBO 530-273-4044

'75 Ford Ranchero good condition, new tires,
runs good, $1800 obo, 530-292-1934

'69 Ford Falcon Futura/Sprint Rare car
too many extras to list $4500 530-273-5685

'74 F250 390 eng 4 sp, runs great
xlnt work truck, $1500 or offer 530-639-0334

Don't know anything about any of these except
what you read here. I'd be willing to go look
at the trucks, but I'm not an expert. As for
looking at the engine, you'd be better off finding
someone else.

Jeff '64 F100 CrewCab


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:26:28 EST
From: SevnD2 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Big trks diff than p/ups

In a message dated 01/06/2000 3:34:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
glperry fwi.com writes:

< < You guys like your FE engines, but the large HD FE's are VERY
different than the p/ups use. They came in 330, 359,361,391, maybe
others I don't know. > >

Do you mean the FE's compared to what I have heard them referred to as FT's ?

Rollie .
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:37:02 EST
From: GMontgo930 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351 vrs 400 motor

Go 400. IF you must settle for the 351 (im assuming it's an M block here)
then you can upgrade it to a 400 by swapping the crank with a 400s. If it's a
W or C, then you'll be stuck with the 351 ci for the most part. Crank trick
won't work in it.

George M


In a message dated 1/6/2000 2:16:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tjwilli megavision.com writes:

> Hi,
> I am looking at a 1974 Ford LTD with a 400 and a 1977 LTD with a 351.
> I want to put the motor in a 1978 F-150 4x4. I can get the 1977 351 car for
> $100.00 or the 1974 400 car for $200.00.
> I am looking for some feedback as to which is the better motor to put in
the
> Pickup and why.
> Thanks in advance for any info.
>
> Tom
> Columbus, NE
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:00:40 -0800 (PST)
From: canzus seanet.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Headshake(long)

At 10:30 PM 5:1:00 -0800, Chris Samuel wrote:

>-> I can't argue with anyone who has raced and I can't argue with
>-> book specs in
>-> a Ford shop manual but I've experienced what I've experienced
>-> and recall the
>-> toe out thing from the class so don't think I am trying to run this
>-> discussion, I'm looking for more input :-)
>
>Let's see I have raced, and I'll argue (and have) with anyone (can ya tell)
>until they make sense! I only use the shop manual for the most basic
>reference and exploded parts drawings. And if I don't make sense, stick my
>foot in mouth, or your experience is different well then, we discuss, or we
>don't, and ether way we all still drive Ford Trucks and in that we have
>common ground and friendship.
>
>Peace
>Muel

I have raced, and won a time or two, in an abomination, AKA the
Mini Cooper. I remember the suspension being set to toe in to
accelerate, and toe out to corner, at the same time. Basically at
normal ride height the car would have 0 toe, but when you loaded
the suspension (braking) it would have 1/8+ toe out. And when you
unloaded the suspension, it would toe in an 1/8+.

Yes, Henry would prolly look down his nose at FWDers, but they
are a huge KITA to drive when set up correctly....


Steve & the Rockette
68 F100, 390cid, FMX
63 F100, 292cid, 3speed
72 Capri 2000, hers
73 Capri 2600,tube frame going in.....
73 MGB GT, Our Toy
94 SHO, SWMBO's
98 Contour SVT, Mine, Mine, All Mine....

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:55:35 -0500
From: "Redden" enter.net>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - tonneau cover

A soft tonneau would work great if your box is under the rail. I imagine
that you can get a custom one.
I think Gaylord's makes a hard lid that is designed to be used with an
across the bed toolbox.
It has a hinge down the middle, giving you access from either side of the
truck (the fiberglass lids are about
twice as much money). Gaylord's seems to cater to older trucks, BTW.
I'm buying an extang (www.extang.com) for my '71 longbed. It's a soft
tonneau that has the aforementioned clamps so you don't have to drill the
bed rails (my truck had lots of holes to be filled in the rails). Since I
currently don't have a box, I may get the style that sits inside the bed so
I can use the soft tonneau and still lock stuff in the toolbox.
California Concepts has a website that shows a number of lid styles:
www.calconcepts.com

Mike





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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:48:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Chad Morris yahoo.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351 vrs 400 motor

The choice between 351M and the 400 is just a choice
between fuel economy vrs power. Granted, however
there is not much difference because they both average
around 10 mpg. If you are wanting more power I would
definately go for the 400. Your main concern would be
the conditions of the engines in these 2 cars.

Kevin

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://im.yahoo.com
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:48:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Chad Morris yahoo.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 351 vrs 400 motor

The choice between 351M and the 400 is just a choice
between fuel economy vrs power. Granted, however
there is not much difference because they both average
around 10 mpg. If you are wanting more power I would
definately go for the 400. Your main concern would be
the conditions of the engines in these 2 cars.

Kevin

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://im.yahoo.com
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:51:15 -0800
From: "bronco66" teleport.com>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - splines

did 72 f100 4x4 come with 28 or 31 spline rear axles? And is it a big
bearing or small bearing?

- ----- Original Message -----
From: William S. Hart iastate.edu>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 8:11 AM
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - rebuild q's--finally!!


>
> > Good suggestion to have the bores checked before taking them out that
far.
> > I would point out thogh that the 428 bore is "60 over" a 360/390
> > bore. They
> > may have cast a 428 block differently to give it more material at
> > this size.
> > Does anyone know if the 428 block was cast differently?
>
> Aren't they .080 over on a 390 ? 4.05 vs 4.13 ? At least that's the info
> I've got ... hey a 428 is only 426.5 .... a 427 isn't quite that even is
it
> ?
>
> Nope, 424.9 ...must've been a 425cubic inch rule huh ? ;)
>
> ever wish they would show the real displacements ?
>
> FYI 390 = 389.57
> 360 = 360.71
>
> Just my $.02
> wish
>
> 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
> 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 23:49:19 -0800
From: "Jeff Norville" sosinet.net>
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Elec fuel pump - filters?

So I am trying the dual fuel pump thingy that was discussed a couple of
weeks back - electric pump at the rear near the tank on a dash switch,
backing up the standard pump. The old "if one is good two is better"
philosophy.

Question is where to put the fuel filter(s)?

I would like to use two - bought those clear glass filters with little
plastic shield - they're nearly 3.5" long I think. Pretty long to fit....


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