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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:06:12 -0700 (MST)
From: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks61-79-digest)
To: fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks61-79-digest V2 #56
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Sender: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks61-79-digest Friday, January 30 1998 Volume 02 : Number 056



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

My 351M Head Gasket Saga Continues [Bzysignl aol.com]
460 Question [Bzysignl aol.com]
Re: Timing ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Duraspark II [Brian ]
Re: Duraspark II [Brian ]
Re: Varsol [Dennis Pearson ]
Ballast resistor [am14 chrysler.com]
Re: Duraspark II ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Varsol [Randy Collins ]
Re: long rods and their effect on piston speed. ["Gary, 78 BBB"
Re: suicide doors ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
RE: 460 Question [Sleddog ]
Re: long rods and their ... spreadsheet [JRFiero aol.com]
Re: Timing [danadeb pacbell.net]
RE: suicide doors [Sleddog ]
RE: long rods and their effect on piston speed. [Sleddog
Re: Duraspark II [danadeb pacbell.net]
RE: long rods and their ... spreadsheet [Sleddog ]
Re: Varsol [danadeb pacbell.net]
Re: Ballast resistor [danadeb pacbell.net]
Re: Duraspark II ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Duraspark II ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Varsol ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:24:44 EST
From: Bzysignl aol.com
Subject: My 351M Head Gasket Saga Continues

Well guys, I have re-installed the heads. I saw no obvious indications of a
blown head gasket, but that water was coming from somewhere. That coupled
with the incredible amount of GOO that was built up on the intake valves has
me excited to get the dude running again. I also tore down each lifter and
cleaned them out. Some seemed totally stuck.
I decided to do the timing chain while I was at it, and boy was that chain
worn. It had about 3/4 of an inch play on each side at the same time. I
bought a double roller that allows me to reset the timing to 0 deg BTDC.
So, I'm about to put the timing chain cover back on. Still have to put the
rockers back on. Intake manifold, distributer, radiator has to go back in.
Almost there, wish me luck. Thanks for all the help and general info so far.
Any tips or comments, please post to group or email at gpark cymer.com. I
can't get on my home pc very often. Lately I'm too grimy, and having too much
fun.
GP

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:36:26 EST
From: Bzysignl aol.com
Subject: 460 Question

Well, between the work I've been doing on the 351 and reading everyone gush
about the 460, I have the urge to rebuild one of these motors. I don't even
know what it will end up in, but it will probably be a truck, and probably be
a 74 or earlier, to get out from under the SMOG police here in CA.
I found one in the paper and here's it's story- it is from a 76 Van, and
supposedly was running when it was pulled. The main bearings went bad, but did
not spin. The oil pressure light came on, and ended this motors (first) life.

Here's my question for the 460 Gurus:
How is this year as far as 460's go? Are they all the same more or less? The
guy wants $250, and it is complete exh man to carb, except for the alternator.
Good deal?
What are the issues with putting this motor in a 74 or older F150 of F250?
I remember someone ran into an issue with a missing crossmember that had to be
added. Any other special things to consider?
Thanks for the info. Please email to gpark cymer.com or post to the list.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:57:23 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Timing

> From: ECampb5214 aol.com
> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:21:04 EST
> Subject: Timing

> To adjust timing, I can mearly unbolt the bolt at the bottom of
> my
> distributor, and turn clock wise to advance, right?

All ford's turn counter clockwise as you look down on the dist. So
to advance you turn clockwise. If you are doing it without a timing
light remember that one degree at the distributor is 2 degrees of
crank rotation.

BTW, I don't recommend doing it by ear. At idle the engine wants
about 40 deg advance with idle mixture at it's best setting which is
very lean. When you try to accellerate then the mechanical advance
will advance it even more. Since you only need up to 38 degrees
total at max rpm, at WOT this will be way too much advance. You need
to determine how much advance your vac pulls in to do this right.

It's a combination of mechanical and vac that keeps the engine at
it's best timing over all rpms. The object is to have it all in
between 3k and 4k rpm and let the vac retard it as needed under load
or advance it at cruise which needs about 40 - 50 degrees advance for
optimum economy.

Some may respond to this with "I don't need no stinking vac!" but ask
them how the mileage is..................and my engine will ren just
as hard as theirs since the vac gets out of the loop at WOT anyway
:-)

My theory on this is you set the mechanical to operate the engine at
WOT for best performance at all rpms, then mess with the vac to get
the economy and off idle driveability back up to snuff :-) This is a
two step operation and may require different carb tuning (idle
mixture for sure) for each phase to prevent off idle stalling etc
without the vac in stage one.

Buy a timing light :-)

Where's Murphy when
you really need him??

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:40:08 -0500
From: Brian
Subject: Re: Duraspark II

danadeb pacbell.net wrote:
>
> I have said it before and I will say it again.
>
> Go to this site go directly to this site!
>
> Don't even ask anyone's opinion till you have seen this site!!!!!
>
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.wrljet.com/engines/duraspark.html
>
> Not that I don't want to help but there is so much misinformation on the subject
> that it is like a fish story it just keeps getting worse and worse!!!
>
> Flame suit ready!!!
>
> Dana
>
> PS if you don't have a browser then let me know and I will E-Mail the site to
> you piece by piece!!!
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

Been there and done that !! I have printed out there complete story on
the Duraspark II....Its GREAT !! But my problem is not having any
wiring under the hood too start with. That makes it a little bit more
challenging. When you start to rewire from total scratch, its hard to
follow their diagram. You first have to wire for the connections they
suggest you hook up the ignition to !


Brian

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:47:47 -0500
From: Brian
Subject: Re: Duraspark II

Don Grossman wrote:
>
> Hold on here a minute,
>
> Which two wires are we talking about here the two from the coil or the
> two out of the ignition module?
>
> The coil wire gets the resisted wire. This should be the same wire that
> would power the coil for the 64. This was also the same for 63. There
> is a resistance wire just after the ignition switch. It should be a
> slightly larger wire. Mine is pink. No it is not a fuseable link so I
> will just defuse that right now ;)
>
> If you are talking about the power for the ignition module it should be
> 12v constant. You can tap right into the wire that comes off the
> ignition switch but before the resistance wire.
>
> The other wire goes to the I side of the starter relay. It could go
> anywhere there is only power during starting only.
>
> Which box do you have? If it is the early box it will be like this
>
> red+blue = run power
> blue = start wire
>
> later box
>
> red+blue = run power
> white = start wire.
>
> The funny thing is that after 78 I see a full 12V going to the coil?
>
> Whats up with that
> --
> Don Grossman
> duckdon pacific.net
>
> 63 Ford F-100 4x4 67' 390, t-98, Spicer 24, Dana 60, Dana 44, power
> steering, power brakes, and now ON BOARD AIR!
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

I've got the red & white system, But again...my problem is that ALL the
wiring for the engine compartment was gone when I purchased this truck.
It had the engine removed, There was nothing for wiring except the
headlights and the alternator harness. So that's why I'm somewhat
confused. I don't want to burn out the module by hooking up the wrong
thing to it.There was no wiring for the coil under the hood.
And since I'm far from wise on this wiring stuff...I need all the help I
can get !! I do have the engine rewired enough now that it does turn
over. But I'm just not sure where to find the connections for the
module. There was know wiring for the sensors. (oil & water) I installed
mechanical guages so that took care of that.

Brian

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 06:31:57 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: Varsol

Thanks for your message at 10:29 PM 1/29/98 -0800, Deacon. Your message was:
>>Do tell Deacon!!!
>>
>>Dana
>
>You'll get scared! But you asked. :)
>
> When I was just a young lad of 7, my Dad was trying to start and old car
>using a small can of gas.

All these gasoline stories got me going. Brings back memories of when I
was 17 (a couple years ago) and working in a Signal(should give you a clue
to my age) station in Isssaquah (Is this too much detail?). The owner,
Ruby (Harold), would clean out his lube bays with gas from the pump.
Actually, he would have me do it. Scared the cr*p out of me even then. On
days he REALLY wanted to clean, he would have me clean the floors with
battery acid. I went through more damn shoes at that job...

Oh yeah, there was a cherry 1962 Ford pickup parked outside the station,
but nobody noticed cause it was only two years old (just to keep it legal
for the group).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:34:15 -0500
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: Ballast resistor

Gary says: >> The ballast resistor is a white piece of pourous ceramic
with a wire wound ferite core resistor in it about 3" long and about
3/4"
wide and should be somewhere on the firewall or fender wells. Since
it's a 64 and had points I'm not sure where it would be or if it may
have been removed by the previous owner.

1st let me say I'm not real familiar with the Ford Trucks prior to
'73., but I'm real familiar with Ford Cars back to around '50. I
always thought Ford (cars & trucks) used a special resistance wire, and
not a Ballast resistor like MOPAR did. Am I wrong on this one
also?????????

Azie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:42:18 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Duraspark II

> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:53:22 -0800
> From: marko helix.net (marko maryniak)
> Subject: Re: Duraspark II

> Unlike your D*dge, which has a small white ceramic brick mounted on
> the firewall with a coily wire inside, looking much like a heating
> element from a toaster or baseboard heater or (get this Azie I AM
> old) an electric fireplace, your Ford has just ensured that the wire

Ok, now you've done it! I know one of my 78's has a "Dodge" type
ballast resistor.............er......maybe one of the other 7
vehicles?? All fords of course :-) I have recently had an 88
Festiva, 92 Tempo, 92 T-bird, 94 T-bird, 91 F-150, 97 F-150 and my
two 78's plus a GM blue bird school bus (my son's) and I know I saw a
ballast resistor on one of these recently and it wasn't the
bus..........sooooooooooooo, I'll hafta go look :-)

BTW, I only have to pay for the 94 and 78 bronco (thank god! :-))
The rest are my kid's or paid off :-)

Where's Murphy when
you really need him??

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:55:16 -0700
From: Randy Collins
Subject: Re: Varsol

The dangerous thing about using gas are the fumes. They are heavy and move
across a floor and if an open flame is present in an enclosed area it will
get to it.Slowly but it will get to it. If you use gas to clean parts,
recognize it is dangerous have only what you need out in the open, don't
think it won't happen to you, throwing caution to the wind, just clean
parts outside to be safe. Randy and Dana aren't just safety fanatics. Their
speaking the truth.



Deacon:

I am sorry to hear about your first hand experience with the dangers of
flammable materials. I think it is funny that you refer to me as a safety
freak. If you knew me you probably would reconsider. Did I mention my C-6
fell off the transmission jack last month? That could have been bad real
bad.

The reason I am so persistent about using things like gasoline as a cleaner
is that often we forgot about the consequences of our actions. Why take a
chance using something as flammable and dangerous as gasoline in an
enclosed environment when there are good alternatives available? I assure
you if mineral spirits (paint thinner) wasn't a good cleaner I wouldn't use
it. It works very well. Often I use solvents that that are much more
volatile than gasoline. When I use these solvents I use them I make sure
there is adequate ventilation and to minimize the explosion risk I take the
solvent saturated rags outside to evaporate. All I am trying to say is
that compared to the risk of using gasoline mineral spirits is cheap and it
works well.

I am out of town for the week. If anyone requires the exact flammability
details of mineral spirits I can get an MSDS sheet next week when I am back
at the office and either get them a copy or help interpret the information.

Wanna talk about the dangers of spontaneous combustion?


Later,

Randy Collins
Boise, Idaho
rcollins micron.net

1975 Ford F250 4WD Supercab "Muscle Truck"
460 SUPER COBRA JET
Short Block Completed...Stage II head work


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:14:44 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: long rods and their effect on piston speed.

> From: Sleddog
> Subject: long rods and their effect on piston speed.
> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:36:27 -0500

> using this, it shows that a longer rod decreases piston velocity
> near TDC and increases it near BDC with the same trend in piston
> acceleration.

This doesn't make sense to me but I haven't really analyzed it yet.
Seems to me the upper left and lower right quadrants would have
identical numbers only reversed and the same tor the other two
quadrants? Anybody want to tackle this one?

I see accelleration in the upper right and lower left quadrants and
decelleration in the other two but since the angles of incedence are
identical the speeds should also be identical for any given point
mirrored to the other hemisphere??

Where's Murphy when
you really need him??

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:19:23 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: suicide doors

> From: "Deacon"
> Subject: Re: suicide doors
> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:05:34 -0800

> The article is from the Aug '97 issue of Ford Truckin' and the

Deacon, do you have the subscription address handy for that magazine?
I've never seen it on any stands or I'm sure I would have picked it
up. The only magazines I've seen for fords have all been for the
ugly, useless Mustang and all they deal with is the puny 302 (whoa,
I'm outahere :-)), what good does that do anyone?? Petersons often
puts out an annual ford engines collectors or reference edition which
I try to grab if I see them but I haven't seen one in a while.

Most of the "Truckin" magazines are for guys who want to look at
naked girls and expensive shop built trucks. Then there's the "Gang"
rags from the back alleys of LA..........

Where's the real ford stuff, like normal, ordinary, sane, blue
collar worker, non drug dealer truck enthusiast want??????

Where's Murphy when
you really need him??

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:02:27 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: 460 Question

74 is not a good, or bad year. 68 and 69 were great years, and then till
sometime in 80 they are all good motors, just need a little help. they are
basically all the same except between the van-truck and car models have
different pans, exhaust mans, etc. getting one out of a van is good, as it
already has the right oil pan, pickup tube, timing cover, and exhaust
manifolds you need for a truck. it may be a good deal, but how do you know
that what he said is true? maybe there is alot more wrong than just a loss
of oil pressure. the crank may need regrinding, all new bearings inc. the
cam bearings, new oil pump, and the possibility of hard parts you won't
know of till you get inside. i myself would pay between 150-200 for it if
it "looked" good and $250 if could pull the pan first to look at it.

sleddog


Here's my question for the 460 Gurus:
How is this year as far as 460's go? Are they all the same more or less?
The
guy wants $250, and it is complete exh man to carb, except for the
alternator.
Good deal?
What are the issues with putting this motor in a 74 or older F150 of F250?
I remember someone ran into an issue with a missing crossmember that had to
be
added. Any other special things to consider?
Thanks for the info. Please email to gpark cymer.com or post to the list.






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| List removal information is on the web site. |
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:29:26 EST
From: JRFiero aol.com
Subject: Re: long rods and their ... spreadsheet

In a message dated 98-01-30 01:09:31 EST, you write:


spreadsheet" as the subject and i shall email you a copy.
>>

Sleddog -
I'd like a copy of that spreadsheet, please. I'm going to have to quibble
with this next statement, tho. Whatever effect rod length has should be the
same at TDC and BDC, and opposite halfway down. If velocity is lower at top
and bottom it has to be higher in the middle to make it all the way down in
the same amount of time.


and increases it near BDC with the same trend in piston acceleration.
>>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:20:20 -0800
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Timing

Gary, 78 BBB wrote:
>

> All ford's turn counter clockwise as you look down on the dist.

What about "I" 6s? They rotate clockwise!



> So
> to advance you turn clockwise. If you are doing it without a timing
> light remember that one degree at the distributor is 2 degrees of
> crank rotation.
>
> BTW, I don't recommend doing it by ear. At idle the engine wants
> about 40 deg advance



If you set the initial to 40 deg you will have a bear of a time turning the
engine over IMNSHO!

Also why is there no mention of these type of settings in any book I have read?




This is my opinion!!!!!

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:16:02 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: suicide doors

- ---snippage---

Where's the real ford stuff, like normal, ordinary, sane, blue
collar worker, non drug dealer truck enthusiast want??????

they are a dying species! of course i can't tell you who the "new ones"
are, as i can't see them in their black out windows, lowrider, so much
chrome i get blinded by the sun, and even if i wanted to i can't get close
enough to take a good look as the music is so loud it takes the few hairs
left on my head just about rips them out by the roots, ford explorers that
mommy and daddy bought for them for their 16th birthday even though they
still haven't learned how to use a turn signal or properly enter an
interstate highway or that they bought with money from people who can't
afford it but bought drugs from people who could, but don't use them
because it is the user that's the loser and ...........

i am sorry, just venting, i live next to the projects and , uh that's
really not about ford trucks though ....

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:30:30 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: long rods and their effect on piston speed.

well gary, first, this has all been assuming a constant crank velocity. of
course this isn't the case, as the crank changes speed constantly. but we
can still get the general idea.

what you say, would first seem to be the case, but mathimatically it is not
the case. this means also that the piston travels a greater linear
distance between 90 BTDC to 90 ATDC than the 90 BBDC and 90 ABDC. the
difference is minor, but at the ragged edge of performance it can mean the
difference between broken rods, and reliability.

offsetting the piston pin also changes the piston speed and velocity.
460's come from ford offset one direction, actually creating an effective
shorter rod, but offsetting to the other side makes an effective longer rod
- - on the down stroke. many other brands have this also, for example many
mopars that have been built for performance over the years the pistons are
just hung the opposite way and the piston acts as if it had about a .150"
longer rod.

with a centered piston pin, the upper 2 quadrants are equal and opposite,
and the bottom two are, not criss crossed as you may initially think. to
find piston speeds, etc, you need to calculate from TDC to BDC on either
side of the cranks throw.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Friday, January 30, 1998 4:14 AM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Re: long rods and their effect on piston speed.

> From: Sleddog
> Subject: long rods and their effect on piston speed.
> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:36:27 -0500

> using this, it shows that a longer rod decreases piston velocity
> near TDC and increases it near BDC with the same trend in piston
> acceleration.

This doesn't make sense to me but I haven't really analyzed it yet.
Seems to me the upper left and lower right quadrants would have
identical numbers only reversed and the same tor the other two
quadrants? Anybody want to tackle this one?

I see accelleration in the upper right and lower left quadrants and
decelleration in the other two but since the angles of incedence are
identical the speeds should also be identical for any given point
mirrored to the other hemisphere??

Where's Murphy when
you really need him??

- -- Gary --






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| List removal information is on the web site. |
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:37:58 -0800
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Duraspark II

You can hook the red wire to the ignition switch lead that has 12V in the run
position only.

Hook the White wire to the ignition switch lead that has 12V only when the key
is in the start position.

The ballast resister is probably under the dash and pink as said before. I don't
think that you can read the 6-8V it will allow unless there is a load on the
wire. If the dash is out follow the run wire from the ignition switch to the
firewall if you notice a thicker then the rest wire doubled back on itself under
all that black tape that is probably the one. Also the wire that used to come
from the "I" terminal of the starter relay should hook to it at a point near
where it starts to go through the firewall.

Hope it helps.

BTW if you have trouble understanding the schematic down load it to your pc (
right click on it and save it) use a paint program to mark questions on it and
E-Mail it to me direct.

I just did the swap swap and I built all of the wire harness my self.

Dana

danadeb pacbell.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:34:05 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: long rods and their ... spreadsheet

i'll send you one. but, math doesn't lie. the reason for the difference
is because of the way vectors (velocity or acceleration) are computed. for
a scothch yoke type mechanism the velocities are the same in each quadrant,
but not for a simple rod & crank.

sleddog


- ----------
From: JRFiero aol.com[SMTP:JRFiero aol.com]
Sent: Friday, January 30, 1998 9:29 AM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Re: long rods and their ... spreadsheet

In a message dated 98-01-30 01:09:31 EST, you write:


spreadsheet" as the subject and i shall email you a copy.
>>

Sleddog -
I'd like a copy of that spreadsheet, please. I'm going to have to
quibble
with this next statement, tho. Whatever effect rod length has should be
the
same at TDC and BDC, and opposite halfway down. If velocity is lower at
top
and bottom it has to be higher in the middle to make it all the way down in
the same amount of time.


TDC
and increases it near BDC with the same trend in piston acceleration.
>>






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| List removal information is on the web site. |
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:48:15 -0800
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Varsol

WOW Deacon! I thought I was going to be a humorous gas story not a Horror
story. Glad you are OK ( Well at least physically ;) )the list would not be the
same with out ya!

Where is our resident chemist?


BTW, pound for pound, gas has more BTUs then dynamite!

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:52:46 -0800
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Ballast resistor

am14 chrysler.com wrote:

> 1st let me say I'm not real familiar with the Ford Trucks prior to
> '73., but I'm real familiar with Ford Cars back to around '50. I
> always thought Ford (cars & trucks) used a special resistance wire, and
> not a Ballast resistor like MOPAR did. Am I wrong on this one
> also?????????
>
> Azie



NO!
You are correct sir! ( that was my best Ed McMan ( sp? ) impersonation )

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:52:55 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Duraspark II

> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:47:47 -0500
> From: Brian
> Subject: Re: Duraspark II

> it does turn over. But I'm just not sure where to find the
> connections for the module. There was know wiring for the sensors.
> (oil & water) I installed mechanical guages so that took care of
> that.

All vehicles since the dawn of time.............Ok, maybe not but I'm
sure the 64 has a start pin and run pin on the ignition switch. Go
into the dash, find these pins and "try" to follow them throgh the
fire wall. If you can't get through the fire wall with them then
splice into them at a convenient location, soldering the joints you
make, and run two distinctly colored wires (preferably red for run
and white for start) out to the module area. Get an old "Dodge" or
"ford" ballast resistor and hook it in series with the red wire to
the module and since the starter works you don't need to worry about
that part, just run the start pin wire to the white wire on the
module and you're all set. If you have the later harness with green
wire in the 4 pin plug and same model distributor pickup then you
just plug it all in and you're done. I'll have to double check the
coil connections (forgot where the red wire goes) but they are part
of the harness too so should be a no brainer.

Where's Murphy when
you really need him??

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:24:44 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Duraspark II

> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:48:30 -0800
> From: Don Grossman
> Subject: Re: Duraspark II

> > Be careful here the.
>
> > The "I" side of the starter relay has voltage from 2 sources. one
> > is the ignition switch ( 12V ) the other is from the ballast
> > resister. ( 6-8V ) Since the "I" side wire bypasses the ballast
> > resister it has to be attached between the ballast resister and
> > the coil thus it has some voltage as long as the kay is in the
> > start or run positions. The proper place is to put the white wire
> > is on the "s" terminal which supplies 12V only when the key is in
> > the Start position.

Here's a post I sent to the bronco list a while back. There are a
couple more with additional info but I think this one will cover most
of it:

> Well, I grabbed the wrong book! It has the Canadian version which
> seems to be the same wiring scheme and the book calls it the
> "standard" dura spark II but it's harder to decipher than the one in
> my 79 Peterson's manual so I'll throw out a bit here and bring in
> the Peterson's tomorrow to finish up.
>
> Most Ford vehicles going way back to the mid 60's at least have a
> starter relay with one or two small wires on it to operate the
> selenoid. I'm familiar with the two wire version, one being the
> trigger and the other being the 12v signal to the coil for start
> mode. As long as the selenoid is energized the coil gets 12 v. When
> deenergized the ignition has to find another source of power which
> comes through the ballast resistor at about 6-8 v.
>
> Apparently power is supplied from the ignition switch to the start
> relay, coil and ignition module at the same time in parallel more or
> less so that the distributor wiring is also affected by these
> voltage values through the module. The shematic I have today leaves
> too much to the imagination so I'll confirm all this tomorrow with
> my Peterson's. This manual also has the complete run down on the
> years the wires were switched which I'll post tomorrow as well.
>
> I had to replace a starter once because the module shorted
> internally to the white wire roughly 2v in run mode which was
> sufficient to keep the selenoid energized which kept the starter
> energized and 12v to the ignition as well. Starters don't like to
> spin at 12k rpm all day long :-(
>
> As already mentioned, at some point the orange and purple wires
> changed purposes but the colors didn't change so while the plugs
> will match up and the colors will look right the system won't
> operate correctly if you mix them up. Get the box with the blue
> seal BTW.
>
> Basically, the Purple, Black and Orange wires from the module go to
> the distributor. The black wire is ground. The green wire in the
> module goes more or less directly to the dist side of the coil. Red
> and white go to the ignition switch, red to the run terminal and
> white to the start terminal.
>
> In the case of the points ignition there should be a wire coming
> from the run terminal of the switch to the ballast resistor to the
> coil and another wire coming from the start terminal of the switch,
> either to the start relay and then to the coil or two wires, one to
> the realay and one to the coil depending on which relay it uses.
> These wires can be used to hook to the red and white wires of the
> Dura Spark module as described above.
>
> The wire which went to the batt side of the original coil can then
> be hooked to the batt side of the new coil assuming the above is
> true and the green module wire can then be connected directly to the
> dist side of the coil.
>
> The other three wires should have a plug on them which plugs
> directly into the distributor or harness leading to the distributor,
> either 3 or 4 pins. The one with 4 pins simply has the dist green
> wire in the plug instead of by itself and a pigtail going to the
> coil from the mating plug which is one of the several changes which
> were made basically to this plug arrangement. If you happen to get
> the orange and purple wires crossed the engine will not start at all
> and I found that the red and white wires are not necessarily matched
> either and crossing them will cause the engine to start but won't
> keep running when you release the key.....


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