fordtrucks61-79-digest Thursday, April 30 1998 Volume 02 : Number 237



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979
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In this issue:

Re: Paint&Body [Stu Varner ]
Re: 351 W heads [George Herpich ]
engine type [Eric Washburn ]
Windshield [Aaron Jacobson ]
Re: Synthetic Oil [BDIJXS ]
New gas tank - anyone used the plastic ones [BDIJXS ]
Front D44 to 3/4 ton conversion [BDIJXS ]
Re: Paint&Body [Dennis Pearson ]
Re: engine type [Dan Koster ]
Re: Windshield [Dennis Pearson ]
Re: Soaked Brake Shoes [Mark Moburg ]
RE: FE teardown [DC Beatty ]
RE: Linkage Design [Ken Payne ]
Re: Hot starts [sdelanty sonic.net]
Re: Windshield [GMPACHECO ]
Alternator Output ["PAUL MONTY" ]
70/71 460 build-up ["Jason K. Schechner" ]
Oil [ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)]

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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:37:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: Paint&Body

>
> I take it back, Stu needs to learn something from you "Older
>Students". Stu has 6th graders so all he gets is milk money for A's.

Deacon,
Oh master, oh wise one of FTE, Oh grasshopper, I have learned from
my elders and I feel I may be in for a transfer next year to the Jr.
High.........
I feel there may be more money in it there!! Got to pay for that new Cobra!!
:^)

Stu

>=============================
>Nuke the unborn baby whales.

Amen and preach on brother Deacon, don't forget GM too!!
>=============================

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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:51:34 -0400
From: George Herpich
Subject: Re: 351 W heads

Your heads are the same as 302s. First, take them to a good head guy and have
seats for 1.84 or 1.94 valves roughed in on intakes and 1.60 on exhaust. Also
have him run a 70 degree cutter into the bowls. take them home and blend the
new seats into the bowls and smooth out any casting flash and reduce the amount
of material around the valve guide. In the exhaust port grind the air bump
away. Don't worry, the a.i.r. system will still function, the only thing the
bump did was give a 90 degree register for the factory to drill into. Smooth
out the exh port while enlarging it a little everywhere but the floor. Use a
header gasket for a guide but don't remove a whole lot. You can scribe the
header gasket size and open up the port to that and taper it about a half inch
down. Leave the intake port alone except maybe a port match but don't make it
flare out too much. If the head port is smaller than the intake manifold it's
ok. Then take them back for a multi angle valve job.
If you don't want to spring for new valves, just do the other stuff and there
will be a fare improvement. The exhaust side is the weak point. Leave the
intake port ruff.
Super Ford had an article with measurements and lots of detail back in '91.
Somewhere around july, I think. If you have any way of finding that issue it's
great. I used it to do a set back then and I may still be able to find it. I'll
look when I get a chance.
George

>
>
> Can someone give me a dimes worth of information on a quick and dirty port
> job on a pair of (' 89) 351 heads... Just went thru the engine and thought
> I'd clean up the heads a little.. Any secrets?
>
> jk
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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:33:35 -0500
From: Eric Washburn
Subject: engine type

I have a 1967 F100 Custom Cab with an inline 6. I need to know how I
can identify what size the engine is because the I.D. tag under the
ignition coil is gone.

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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:35:21 -0700
From: Aaron Jacobson
Subject: Windshield

Took my old 65 back up to the mountain again this weekend with my
girlfriend for a little R&R. Had a little disagreement with this tree
limb that decided to give my girl(truck that is) a slap in the face. I
now find myself needing to replace her windshield.Found one at the local
Ford boneyard for 100 Loonies.Thats dollars for my southern Ford
brothers.I have never replaced one before and the old fellaw at the yard
claims I should pull it out through the inside as I may never get the
chrome trim back on if go through the outside. Any successful backyard
windshield replacement tips appreciated.

Jake in British Columbia
65 F250 camper special, flat black and still going
351c
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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:43:17 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: Re: Synthetic Oil

Just wanted to add my experience with synthetic oil. Its all been very good. I
have it in my truck, car, dirt bike, and tractor. I was leary about the leaks
as well, but if you can believe it, my FE doesn't leak a drop.

The primary thing I noticed was that the engine turns over much faster in the
mornings while starting. This seemed like a good thing to me....plus, I change
it about 6000 to 8000 miles. It seems nobody really says when to change it, so
I went with this this interval....no problems so far after about 3 years....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:43:24 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: New gas tank - anyone used the plastic ones

Just a word of caution on stuff from JCW....a lot of it is really not high
quality. One thing you can do is call them and ask them to fax or mail you the
manufacturer's info on these plastic tanks and see what you think from
there.....I've been bitten a few times by JCW's parts like door weatherstrip
(began cracking immediately) and other plastic parts. One the other hand, I
bought a couple of fenders from them and they seemed to be of pretty good
quality....

I would check it out first....

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:43:38 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: Front D44 to 3/4 ton conversion

Hi Michael,

I just finished doing the same conversion to mine and used the 77 F-150 inner
axle shafts and the 76 F-250HD stub axles....sounds like you did it the right
way. Have you tried fitting the 75 inner axle into the housing? If so, it
sounds like it should stick out maybe a half inch or so compared to the stock
one....By the way, are your 75 locking hubs the internal or external type?

Colorado Jeff

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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:54:47 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: Paint&Body

Thanks for your message at 01:37 PM 4/29/98 -0600, Stu Varner. Your message
was:
>
>>
>> I take it back, Stu needs to learn something from you "Older
>>Students". Stu has 6th graders so all he gets is milk money for A's.
>
>Deacon,
> Oh master, oh wise one of FTE, Oh grasshopper, I have learned from
>my elders and I feel I may be in for a transfer next year to the Jr.
>High.........
>I feel there may be more money in it there!! Got to pay for that new
Cobra!!
>:^)

And those Jr High chicks will really go for that Cobra...
They probably wouldn't understand a Classic Ford Truck.

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1970 Marquis 429
1973 Mustang 302 (tired)
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)

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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:51:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Koster
Subject: Re: engine type

Eric,

If you think that the engine is original, the first place I'd look
would be the VIN plate on the drivers side door (facing back if you're
sitting in the truck)

Write down all of the numbers and what categories they're in, and then
post it to the list. 'bout anybody can take it from there!


Good luck,

Dan



- ---Eric Washburn wrote:
>
> I have a 1967 F100 Custom Cab with an inline 6. I need to know how I
> can identify what size the engine is because the I.D. tag under the
> ignition coil is gone.
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979
- --------------+
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|
> | List removal information is on the web site.
|
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- ----------+
>

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:59:00 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: Windshield

Thanks for your message at 04:35 PM 4/29/98 -0700, Aaron Jacobson. Your
message was:
>Took my old 65 back up to the mountain again this weekend with my
>girlfriend for a little R&R. Had a little disagreement with this tree
>limb that decided to give my girl(truck that is) a slap in the face. I
>now find myself needing to replace her windshield.Found one at the local
>Ford boneyard for 100 Loonies.Thats dollars for my southern Ford
>brothers.I have never replaced one before and the old fellaw at the yard
>claims I should pull it out through the inside as I may never get the
>chrome trim back on if go through the outside. Any successful backyard
>windshield replacement tips appreciated.

My friend, Levi, replaced mine and refused to do it if I wanted the chrome
back on. I take it you are not replacing the rubber.

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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 22:31:27
From: Mark Moburg
Subject: Re: Soaked Brake Shoes

At 11:31 PM 4/19/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>Does anyone know the best way to clean brake fluid out of brake shoes?
>Can it be done?

I agree with the lister who suggested to have them relined at a brake parts place. That shouldn't cost too much. I had it done on a '57 Jaguar (last Jag for 40 years with drum brakes - no way are you going to find replacement parts), and it came to about $15 per wheel.

That being said, when I worked at a shop (which will remain nameless), one of the brake mechanics told me that what he'd do to get fluid out of his shoes was to soak them overnight in a pan of white gas (Coleman lantern gas) **way** away from the house, take them out, let them dry a little, and light them. The heat would burn out the brake fluid. He claimed that the fire didn't last long enough to affect the bonding.

I pass this on FWIW. No way do I think it's a good idea . . .

Mark Moburg
MarkMoburg mindspring.com
Seattle, Washington
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:13:28 -0400
From: DC Beatty
Subject: RE: FE teardown

Also, you'll notice that two of the rocker shaft attaching bolts are
different. Two of them are slightly tapered on the non-threaded upper
portion of the bolt. These need to go into the holes that are also used a=
s
oil holes (the ones with little holes off to the side of the bolt hole). =
I
hope this is understandable. You should be able to see what I'm talking
about. =


I'm not sure if not getting these right is an invitation to disaster or
not. I doubt it, but it's worth doing. =


Drew Beatty
1967 F100 352 (soon to be 390)
1974 Maverick 302


When replaing your pushrods make sure they
are the EXACT same as your old ones. I got a
set once & fired my 390 up & instantly bent =

2 of them.Puled all 16 out & compared them =

to each other and noticed 2 more were about
=2E030 longer than the rest.
+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:11:55 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: RE: Linkage Design

Could someone answer this question for this gentleman?
The picture he attached was basically the steering
linkage using on the twin i-beam trucks.

Thanks,
Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

>From: SHillman Hunter.COM
>To: kpayne mindspring.com
>Subject: RE: Linkage Design
>Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:22:13 -0500
>Return-Receipt-To: SHillman Hunter.COM
>
>The older F and E 150's. I have attached a picture.
>
>
>
>"I will not let my schooling interfere with my education" --- Mark Twain
>
>
>Scott Hillman
>Instructor
>Hunter Engineering Training Center
>11250 Hunter Drive
>Bridgeton, MO 63044
>Training Center(314) 731-3020
>Fax:(314) 731-9930
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:Ken Payne [SMTP:kpayne mindspring.com]
>Sent:Sunday, April 26, 1998 2:22 PM
>To:SHillman Hunter.COM
>Subject:Re: Linkage Design
>
>Which trucks, the current F150s, older F150s or the new
>SuperDuty F250?
>
>Ken Payne
>CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
>http://www.ford-trucks.com
>
>At 01:45 PM 4/25/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>I have read your "please don't send mail if..."
>>
>>I might be sending you one of those emails. I apologies if I
>am.
>>
>>My name is Scott Hillman. I am an instructor for Hunter
>Engineering
>>Company. We are manufactures of undercar service equipment.
>>
>>I am doing research to find the name of the steering linkage
>design used
>>on Ford trucks. The linkage design is similar to a relay rod
>style of
>>linkage, but it is not relay rod. I have heard that the
>correct name
>>for this linkage design is "Haltenburger". If you have any
>information
>>on this subject I would enjoy hearing from you.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Scott Hillman
>>
>>"I will not let my schooling interfere with my education" ---
>Mark Twain
>>
>>
>>Scott Hillman
>>Instructor
>>Hunter Engineering Training Center
>>11250 Hunter Drive
>>Bridgeton, MO 63044
>>Training Center(314) 731-3020 ext. 279
>>Fax:(314) 731-9930
>>
>>
>

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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:12:47 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: Hot starts

>I'm thinking we need to get the higher pressure pump to feed the
>regulator so we don't lose volume and then regulate it down for the
>carb. I believe the regulators are almost all made for that purpose
>so may not work as well with lower pressure inputs.

Yeah, they need a certain amount of extra pressure on the inlet
side to get good flow thru the regulator valve. I don't know how
big the regulator orifice is, but I would hope it doesn't drop more
than 1-2 PSI at max flow.

>The other option is to put two regulators on in a "Y" configuration
>and back to a single carb inlet again or get double pumper bowls (if
>you have a Holley) and feed the primary and secondary with their own
>regulator.

That's a lot of hardware connections to leak. It would be nice
to just find a good quality single regulator that's up to the task...

>The first choice makes more sense to me since regulators are based on
>springs and have a finite input/output relationship for good accuracy
>so it the input is too low the regulator can't make the right
>adjustments, what do you think?

I'm thinking that the bypass type regulator makes more sense than a
series type regulator does...
If the regulator valve leaks a little on a series type reg, then during
a hot soak the pump can still overpressure the carb float valves and
cause trouble. If the reg valve leaks on a bypass type reg, then it
simply returns fuel to the inlet side of the pump.
If a series type regulator is too small, then carb fuel pressure will
decrease at higher RPM's. If a bypass type reg is too small, then fuel
pressure will increase with highers RPM's...
The bypass type presents no fuel restriction to the carb, and essentially
does nothing until the pump presseure exceeds it's "blow off" pressure.

Now the next trick is too come up with a suitable bypass type regulator
that can be set for 6 PSI...


Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
-- Hunter S. Thompson

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Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:36:24 EDT
From: GMPACHECO
Subject: Re: Windshield

You know the trick with the fishing line don't you? one person on the inside
and yourself on the outside working the fishing line around the windshield

MIKE IN SEATTLE
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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:15:48 -0700
From: "PAUL MONTY"
Subject: Alternator Output

Now that my truck is running and summertime is upon us, I've loaded the
camper onto it so SWMBO and I can see some things away from the house. By
now you surely think I'm crazy--Edelbrock heads on a 390 with a stock
bottom-end and a truck loaded with a camper!!! Well, the camper is as
timeless as the truck (1973 Alaskan 8' telescopic).

I installed a multi-battery isolator to prevent any current drain on the
main battery and noticed that the casing on my alternator is stamped
55-amps. Ouch! I bought this truck new and it had the camper special
package. Only thing I can think of if is that I went brain-dead a while
back during one of the several times I've replaced the alternator! Can
anyone shed some light on my dilemma. I'd like to think that all the
housings are interchangeable and I have the guts from either a 65amp or
higher alternator inside. Can anyone recommend a good alternator source.
I have installed some junk units from Napa in the past.

Paul
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Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:30:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jason K. Schechner"
Subject: 70/71 460 build-up

Took the 460 into the machinist today so I'm going to need to mae
some decisions pretty soon. Stock CR for this engine was 10.5:1, though
that was with leaded fuel, etc. This engine is going into my offroad
truck and isn't likely to see high RPM's. The cams I'm considering have
redlines of 4500 and 5500 (I'll bring in my catalogs tomorrow to give
specific specs) with fairly low duration to make lots of low-end torque.
How high could/should I go with the CR to be able to use pump gas,
preferably 87octane? I know I'm going to have to reduce it from 10.5:1,
but how much? Will 9.5:1 work? Remember that this truck will spend a
lot of time off-road, going slowly through trails and idling while other
(less worthy trucks) get stuck in front of me. :-)
Thanks! I'm also looking for cam recommendations. Crower
supposedly makes cams that work well with higher CR engines. Any seconds
to that? How 'bout compcams?

- -Jason
79 Bronco (460 in progress! C6, 33" BFG AT's) GRN GYNT - offroad monster
79 Bronco (400M, C6, 31" Wranglers) blue - BGHOSS
95 Mustang GT - LTLHOS - Eibachs, 3.55's, K&N, 13deg timing
84 Kawasaki GPz550 - TNYHOS - to make up for the Broncos' appetite

- -----
Jason K. Schechner - check out www.cauce.org and help ban spam-mail.
=The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has bounds=
JaSage: "Do bald men have bad head days?"

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 01:36:37 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L Ballinger)
Subject: Oil

>>Jay
>Back in the late 60's and early 70's a friend of mines father ran a
>service center that was sponsored by Penzoil. Since I worked and
>learned there I got gas and oil for free. I have used Penzoil oil in my
>cars ever since then and have never had a problem with it.

>>(Gary)
>I bought Amsoil 0W30 for my applications but they have 10W40 and
>20W50 as well. I would recommend the 20W50 if you had any idea how
>the bearings were toleranced, otherwise maybe the 10W40 would be a
>good choice. They have both a diesel and a gas version with
>different properties.


>>(Rick)
>My favorite is the Castrol family. I use their 20/50 in my stuff, and their
>10/30 (warrany requirement) in my wife's new car. They have a good product.
>Of course, this is just my .02...

Is the general consensus 20w50? Is it to go with synthetic? Does anyone else
have an opinion ar experience to share? I plan to change it this weekend, so
any thing to add would be appreciated. I've used Penzoil forever, and the
straight 40 would probably quiet it down some. I've had friends who swore by
it for drag racing in loose engines, but drag racing isn't 4 mile each-way
street work, with a once a week trip the long way home. As stated before I
would like to switch once and stay at least with one brand and preferrably
one type to prevent additive package compatability troubles.

Jay- I've too have had good luck with Penzoil, but it's possible that my....


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