fordtrucks61-79-digest Thursday, April 16 1998 Volume 02 : Number 217



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: Timing Questions [George Herpich ]
Re: Ford Pickup Red Book ON SALE [Ken Payne ]
'77 Ranchero [Iris151 ]
Re: Opinions ["Dave Resch" ]
Re: Battery Size ["JAMES MERLO" ]
Difference between a F-100 and F-150 ["Robert Hutchinson"
Re: Difference between a F-100 and F-150 [Ken Payne
Power steering gearbox [Tony Marino ]
Re: Difference between a F-100 and F-150 [Dennis Pearson
Binding Steering and KingPins [Chip Rosan ]
Re: Pitman Arm ["Dean A. Noland" ]
RE: 73-79' Hood Ornaments [Randy Collins ]
RE: Opinions [DC Beatty ]
RE: Difference between a F-100 and F-150 [DC Beatty
RE: New List Member with Some Questions [DC Beatty
humidity & engine behavior problems [DC Beatty ]
Re: humidity & engine behavior problems [Mike Schwall ]
Re: 73-79' Hood Ornaments [POLING4 ]
Engine hoists, barns and pickups [ballingr ldd.net (WILLIAM L BALLINGER)]
Re: humidity & engine behavior problems [sdelanty sonic.net]
Single/Dual Exhausts ["PAUL MONTY" ]
Re: Short Trips, sludge etc. [ballingr ldd.net (WILLIAM L BALLINGER)]
Battery Size [ballingr ldd.net (WILLIAM L BALLINGER)]
Re: Ford Pickup Red Book ON SALE [Kurt Albershardt ]
New member - helping nephew with 61 [Mark Moburg
timing problems v2 #214 ["J.Scott Harkema" ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:45:11 -0400
From: George Herpich
Subject: Re: Timing Questions

One other thing to consider....the timing marks could be off. It's possible that
the outer ring on the damper either moved or the marks or pointer were off from
the get go. The only way to be sure is to find your true tdc, maybe impossible
with the engine in the truck, never tried it. You would need a degree wheel and
a piston stop of some kind. You can make one out of an old spark plug. Note the
degrees from one rotation to the stop and then from the other direction and
split the difference. That will be exact tdc. doesn't matter where the wheel is
positioned.

George

WILLIAM L BALLINGER wrote:

> >It is running a little rough at the stock timing recommendation- but seems
> >to run the smoothest at a timing set that is way off, i.e. not even in the
> >range of the marks.
>
> My FE is like that for some reason. I'm running about 20-22 degrees of
> timing with added ported and centrifugal advance. But I also have a lot of
> blow-by, I suspect a bad ring or piston at #8 due to crossfire at some time
> or another. The other 7 are strong but #8 is weak when cold but improves
> alot when warm, blow-by stays about the same. It's sad that it is only
> supposed to have 10,000 miles on it, and pulls like a freight train, but
> shows these problems. I have an aftermarket cam, intake and headers and with
> this timing I make 15-16 hg of vacuam at idle and no sign of ping. At 6-12
> degrees it just backfires when you accelerate. It was this way when I bought
> it, I did a real double take when I put the timing light on it. I'd
> appreciate any comments or experiences in this area too.
>
> Ballinger
> Preferred Company
> ballingr ldd.net
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:14:29 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: Ford Pickup Red Book ON SALE

At 08:05 AM 4/15/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>> Just got my latest Classic Motorbooks catalog and the Ford Pickup Red Book
>>> is on sale for only 2.74! I happily paid 9.95 for mine so this is a great
>>> opportunity to get a really useful book for a very low price. Don't know
>>> if this means they are discontinuing it or what. The catalog number is
>>> 118924AP. It says the sale ends May 15. The number is 800-826-6600.
>>
>> What is in this book?
>>
>The Red Book is a handbook that lists all the VIN and other code info for
>Ford pickups, Rancheros, and Broncos '46-'77. I use mine probably as much
>as all my other Ford books combined. It's hand sized so it is easy to take
>along with you when looking at used trucks for sale.

I just called and ordered one. If you do not have a catalog with
your name on it the price is 6.98, not 2.74. I bought it anyways
as its still a bargain.

- -Ken

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:23:22 EDT
From: Iris151
Subject: '77 Ranchero

I am giving thought to selling my Ranchero. It is the GT model with a 351.
power everything etc. Mechanically great, body is a little banged up. I
have no idea how much it might sell for since I inherited it. Just put $900
to get the tranny rebuilt. Please reply to me privately so as not to clutter
up the list--Iris151 AOL.com. Thanks so much!!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:57:59 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: Opinions

>From: "John LaGrone"
>Subject: Opinions
>
>snip
>
>One more thing. I looked at a 91 Bronco on a car lot that
>had a 351M multiport EFI in front of an AOD tranny. Wouldn't
> that be great in a 79 F150!!!?

Yo John:

The '91 Bronco you saw probably had a 351W, if it was the original factory
engine. Ford discontinued the 351M (and its handsomer brother, the 400)
after 1983, and the Ms were never equipped with either EFI or even a
feedback carburetor. The Bronco's transmission was probably the 4R70W,
which is the electronically-controlled, updated version of the AOD.

Other than nitpicking, the 351M and C6 you now have in your F150 are better
than what's in that Bronco anyway.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:14:08 -0500
From: "JAMES MERLO"
Subject: Re: Battery Size

I have a floor box in my 62 f350

- ----------
> From: John Strauss
> To: Ford Trucks List
> Subject: Battery Size
> Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 8:02 AM
>
> >What battery type do the 61-64 F Series trucks use? Will a group 24 fit
> >in the floor box properly?
> >
> Floor box? I think you are talking about 51-54 there because 61-64 the
> battery is under the hood, mounted on the right side firewall. It takes
a
> Group 27 which many battery manufacturers don't even make any more. You
> can probably find it at an auto parts store but you won't see it at
> Wal-Mart. You can put a 24 in there but it won't fit the original hold
> down bracket.
>
> As for the "floor box" in earlier models, I think a 24 will fit in there
> but not a 27.
>
>
> _
> _| ~~. John Strauss
> \, _} jstrauss inetport.com
> \( Texas Fight!
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 19:53:39 -0400
From: "Robert Hutchinson"
Subject: Difference between a F-100 and F-150

Can anybody tell me the difference between a F-100 and a F-150? They're
both 1/2 ton trucks, but everybody I've talked to in the past always come up
with, "it must be the weight capacity".

I'm new to this discussion group, so if my question seems ignorant, well, it
is. Sorry.

Thanks,

Robert "Hutch" Hutchinson
hutch297 groupz.net

1978 F-100, 302, 3-speed

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:09:01 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: Difference between a F-100 and F-150

At 07:53 PM 4/15/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Can anybody tell me the difference between a F-100 and a F-150? They're
>both 1/2 ton trucks, but everybody I've talked to in the past always come up
>with, "it must be the weight capacity".
>
>I'm new to this discussion group, so if my question seems ignorant, well, it
>is. Sorry.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Robert "Hutch" Hutchinson
>hutch297 groupz.net
>
>1978 F-100, 302, 3-speed

Ford came up with F150 as a "heavy half ton" because 1/2 tons were
not excluded from emissions laws but anything over was. Hence, the
F150 is a "more than an 1/2 ton (F100) but less than an F250."
Production of F100s pretty much stopped in 81 but I've seen an
F100 as new as 83.

Ken Payne

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:27:38 -0400
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Power steering gearbox

Hey all!

My 78's steering pump is whining. I just got done rebuilding this
truck, and now when I turn, it sounds like I have a compressor under the
hood. (what's the problem you ask?!) While I had the truck in many
numerous pieces I had played with the "preload" set screw? on the
gearbox and took what I thought was a little slop out of the box. Did I
screw something up that might cause the pump to whine? How does this
set screw work internally? Aside from the obvious suggestions, I have
plenty of fluid, no air in the lines or case, and these are both
remanufactured parts I bought about a year ago and never had a noise
from them until I just started it after the teardown about a week ago.

Thanks in advance.

- --
Tony Marino
tony pscico.com
www.pscico.com/~tony

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:03:04 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: Difference between a F-100 and F-150

Thanks for your message at 08:09 PM 4/15/98 -0400, Ken Payne. Your message
was:
>Ford came up with F150 as a "heavy half ton" because 1/2 tons were
>not excluded from emissions laws but anything over was. Hence, the
>F150 is a "more than an 1/2 ton (F100) but less than an F250."
>Production of F100s pretty much stopped in 81 but I've seen an
>F100 as new as 83.
>
Wasn't the 150 rated a 5/8 ton to be bigger than a 1/2 ton?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:19:35 -0400
From: Chip Rosan
Subject: Binding Steering and KingPins

OK--

That's two votes for the king pins on the '65. Am seriously considering
replacing all of the front steering components, including the king pins,
anyway. Thanks for the advice.

chip

Thought for the day: Never insult an alligator until after you have
crossed the river.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:20:17 -0400
From: "Dean A. Noland"
Subject: Re: Pitman Arm

I have a 69 F100 Ranger that I just converted to power steering. I used
a power steering gear (Bendix) and pump from a 67 ford truck. I used
this setup because I didn't have to change the steering column! But now
I am having trouble finding a pitman arm to fit my new gear. My manual
pitman arm will not work because the steering gear hole is to small.
The (Bendix Type) pitman arm I am looking for has a part number
[C7TZ-3590 F]. If anyone has one or knows where I can locate one please
let me know.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 19:00:22 -0700
From: Randy Collins
Subject: RE: 73-79' Hood Ornaments

Does anybody remember seeing a "Ranger" Hood Ornament on the 73-79' Trucks?


I remember seeing an Explorer hood ornament. I am not sure about a Ranger ornament.


Later,

Randy Collins
Boise, Idaho
rcollins micron.net

1975 Ford F250 4WD Supercab "Muscle Truck"
460 SUPER COBRA JET
Short Block Completed...Heads Sitting on the work bench!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:51:03 -0400
From: DC Beatty
Subject: RE: Opinions

Welcome John. =


You wrote: =


replaced
both lines. It still leaks between the case and the high pressure
connection. I think the Towncar is starting the same thing. Is there a cu=
re
for this besides a new pump? The o-ring is not the problem.>>

You can get rebuild kits for pumps. There's a mess of seals in the pump,
and I think there's one back where you are describing the leak. The kits
are cheap. The last time I did one I think it cost $12 or something. All
you need is a pulley puller, the instructions/blow up view that comes wit=
h
the kit, and patience. There are a-lot of little spring-loaded teeth in
there that can fall out when you pull the guts apart, and this can be
annoying, but other than that it's not too bad of a job and beats a $100
new pump every time. =



he
two reservoirs, then put the lid on with a stainless steel hose clamp. >>=
>

I think this is dangerous, man!! Also, the two (front and rear) brake
systems are totally isolated to my knowledge, and if I'm wrong I'm sure
someone will let me know. You probably have a bad seal to the lid on the
master cylinder, and that's why the two reservoirs are swapping fluid.
Either that or you have leaks somewhere. It's ok, a new cap will come wit=
h
the new master cylinder you'll be buying:).


Hope this helps,

Drew Beatty
1967 F100 352 (soon to be 390)
1974 Maverick 302

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:51:06 -0400
From: DC Beatty
Subject: RE: Difference between a F-100 and F-150


re
both 1/2 ton trucks, but everybody I've talked to in the past always come=

up
with, "it must be the weight capacity".>>


Yup. It's weight capacity, or GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating). The For=
d
Pickup Red Book shows 1975 as the first year for the 150. It has a GVWR o=
f
6050 # as opposed to the 5100 # of the F100 that year. And it was
introduced due to federal emissions controls. A truck of this weight (ove=
r
6000 #) did not have to use unleaded gas. =


Drew Beatty
1967 F100 352 (soon to be 390)
1974 Maverick 302

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:51:09 -0400
From: DC Beatty
Subject: RE: New List Member with Some Questions

Ditto. My king pins were worn and acted stupid too until I had them chang=
ed
out. If it's wandering bad or if there is excess play in the wheel a bad
rag joint (the fabric disk that couples the column to the steering box)
could be the cause as well.

Hope this helps,

Drew Beatty
1967 F100 352 (soon to be 390)
1974 Maverick 302



Are you sure your steering box is the problem? =

When the king-pins in my '68 F100 started to go, =

they would bind up. I could turn the steering wheel =

while going down the highway, let go, and it would =

not straighten out. Ended up that the king-pins
were shot. Have you greased them recently?
Also, make sure you have enough pressure in your
front tires. If one of my front tires drops in pressure,
turning the steering wheel becomes a real work out.
Just two thoughts...

Bill
(I need a catchy sig.here...) >> =

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:51:14 -0400
From: DC Beatty
Subject: humidity & engine behavior problems

OK, here's one for the scientific community on the list. My truck (again,=
a
'67 F100, worn out 352 and 2 bbl. carb with manual choke) does not seem t=
o
like humidity at all. I'll try to make this explanation complete and brie=
f:

I get up in the morning and start the truck. I always let the truck idle
for 15 or so minutes to evaporate crankcase water and to get the worn out=

rings as heat-expanded as possible. =


Now, if it's a dry day, even if it's real cold, the truck acts perfectly
normal. It runs fine (as possible for the poor beast) and drives fine and=

doesn't stall out. However, if there is much humidity in the air it will
idle pretty well for about ten minutes. Then the idle slowly decreases,
gets rougher, and dies out. If I start it up again right away it runs lik=
e
crap and dies. If I try to drive it it will run like hell and stall out a=
t
ever light--or when I try to take off from a light. However, if I wait
about 15 minutes, just let it sit out there not running, then start it up=
,
there is no rough idle and the motor runs like normal like nothing stupid=

ever happened. What's up with this???

What I figure is this: The only thing that changes in this equation is
humidity. What I think is the air humidity, combined with the excessive
blow by from the worn out motor(which I bet has a high moisture content
since the truck has sat overnight), combines, becomes too much, and
condenses on the choke or throttle plates, and stalls the truck. As I sai=
d,
it will run good for 10 minutes or so before it stalls. In this ten minut=
es
of running it becomes warm enough that, when it stalls and I let it sit,
the motor will actually warm up due to the non-removal of engine heat, an=
d
evaporate this water. I theorize that this is why after letting it sit I
can go out there and it will fire up and run right. =


I hope this is understandable. The questions I have are: am I on target
with my diagnosis? If so, does anyone else have a problem like this? And,=

is there anything I can do short of moving to AZ that will alleviate or
reduce this problem? It gets annoying having to screw around with getting=

the truck to run right when I should be leaving for work. I will be putti=
ng
in the other motor pretty soon and I hope this will make it go away. But
this other motor might not solve the problem. =



As usual, any help or advice is appreciated.

Drew Beatty
1967 F100 352 (soon to be 390)
1974 Maverick 302

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:07:14 -0500
From: Mike Schwall
Subject: Re: humidity & engine behavior problems

>Now, if it's a dry day, even if it's real cold, the truck acts perfectly
>normal. It runs fine (as possible for the poor beast) and drives fine and
>doesn't stall out. However, if there is much humidity in the air it will
>idle pretty well for about ten minutes. Then the idle slowly decreases,
>gets rougher, and dies out. If I start it up again right away it runs like
>crap and dies. If I try to drive it it will run like hell and stall out at
>ever light--or when I try to take off from a light. However, if I wait
>about 15 minutes, just let it sit out there not running, then start it up,
>there is no rough idle and the motor runs like normal like nothing stupid
>ever happened. What's up with this???

Carb icing? Does your truck have any provisions for supplying heated air
to the carb?

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mikes intx.net
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:35:10 EDT
From: POLING4
Subject: Re: 73-79' Hood Ornaments

Hey Randy,

Your on the right track, I see a 73 at our local home base store with the
exact hood ornament "Ranger" inscription within the chrome and red paint.

Hopefully you can find one.

Rick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:18:59 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (WILLIAM L BALLINGER)
Subject: Engine hoists, barns and pickups

>P.S. I wonder if the day will ever come when I can go out to the
>garage and do something so simple as turn on my compressor without
>having to rewire the garage to do a 5 min job...........

Man, you are asking the question of the ages...... I went out to my workshop
and didn't have any lights. Bulbs?, fuses?, MAINS???? noooo!!!!! Went back
in and looked real hard at the bottle of Scotch on the kitchen counter, cat
looking at me like "you are an idiot, you know that don'tcha?" then I
remembered that I'd had a plumber over to switch a rusted out water heater
(can you say stinking carpet??)a few days ago. Checked the breaker box in
the house, and.... DOH!!! A breaker marked OPEN was kicked OFF (not
tripped)and vaavavaavoom, heeeeyyyy Ralphie!!! I got lights!!! Forgot what I
went out there for though..........


Ballinger
Preferred Company
ballingr ldd.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:39:36 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: humidity & engine behavior problems

At 10:51 PM 4/15/98 -0400, you wrote:

>Now, if it's a dry day, even if it's real cold, the truck acts perfectly
>normal. It runs fine (as possible for the poor beast) and drives fine and
>doesn't stall out. However, if there is much humidity in the air it will
>idle pretty well for about ten minutes. Then the idle slowly decreases,
>gets rougher, and dies out. If I start it up again right away it runs like
>crap and dies. If I try to drive it it will run like hell and stall out at
>ever light--or when I try to take off from a light. However, if I wait
>about 15 minutes, just let it sit out there not running, then start it up,
>there is no rough idle and the motor runs like normal like nothing stupid
>ever happened. What's up with this???

It's carb icing. The pressure drop across the throttle plate causes
a significant tempurature drop, and moisture freezes on the edge of
the plate and screws everything up. (gets real rich)
I had this problem with my 390, just exactly as You describe it.
Putting the preheat tube from the hot air stove on the manifold back
on cured it.

>I hope this is understandable. The questions I have are: am I on target
>with my diagnosis?

Pretty much.

>If so, does anyone else have a problem like this?

Yep. But only when I run without carb preheat on cool humid days.

>And,
>is there anything I can do short of moving to AZ that will alleviate or
>reduce this problem?

Get some preheat air to the carb during cold wheather...


Steve

Only those who will risk going too far can
possibly find out how far one can go.
-- T. S. Eliot

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:41:08 -0700
From: "PAUL MONTY"
Subject: Single/Dual Exhausts

Thanks for the different perspectives you guys provided. I think you
swayed me back to my original preference for retaining my dual exhausts.
Based on your info, I'll probably have the guy add a crossover tube to
them after he welds them up to the manifolds.

The wife will just have continue to suffer the noise abuse (I've never felt
they were that noisy; however, I had musclecars long before I met her). I
think I'll share with you guys an acroynm that is used alot on other list I
belong to (Yamaha XS-1100 Owner's)...A while back a guy put forth the
acroynm SWMBO to refer to his wife. A week later he shared what it meant
and now most all the guys on the list refer to their wives in that manner.
She Who Must Be Obeyed... Then again, maybe Ford and Harley-type husbands
are too proud to admit to it? Food for thought...Thanks again for the
info you
provided and when I get the old truck fired-up I'll do an evaluation of the
Edelbrock heads for you.

Paul and Kathy (SWMBO)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:00:06 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (WILLIAM L BALLINGER)
Subject: Re: Short Trips, sludge etc.

> where the PCV comes in. If it's working there will be
>very little moisture accumulation since it's constantly swept clean.
Very good velocity on mine, but I do have a lot of blow-by to deal with.
>Older engines require more frequent oil changes to preserve the lubrication
and protecion built into the oil due to much higher contamination rates from
blow by
etc..
Keeping fuel contamination to minimum is another factor, which is why I
ditched the Holley. The Quadrajet, with inlet heat, does this alot better.
My oil change interval will range from six to eight weeks according to
outside temperature, six ( about 400 miles)in the winter, eight in the
summer( 500 miles). I use Penzoil 10W40 year round, and it never gets darker
than medium honey. If I didn't have so much blow-by to deal with, I'd
stretch it out to 1200 to 1500, but such is life....
My oil pressure runs 30 lbs at idle fully warmed. In cold weather it gets
down to 45 lbs ( from a cold 55 lbs ) and 35 to 40 lbs in warm weather when
I arrive at work, so I know that the oil isn't up to it's maximum operating
temp, but I've done all of this on other engines for many years and I've
never had a problem with sludge buildup, so, though marginal in theory, in
practice it's working for me.
But your points are true, I do have to keep good PCV flow, minimize engine
warm-up time, and change my oil on a radically shorter schedule. Oil life is
related to its operating conditions and time, not miles driven, thus much
shorter mileage intervals. Thanks for your reply.


Ballinger
Preferred Company
ballingr ldd.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:05:14 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (WILLIAM L BALLINGER)
Subject: Battery Size

>Floor box? I think you are talking about 51-54 there because 61-64 the
>battery is under the hood, mounted on the right side firewall.

My '65 F250 4X4 has it in the floor box too.


Ballinger
Preferred Company
ballingr ldd.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:18:33 -0700
From: Kurt Albershardt
Subject: Re: Ford Pickup Red Book ON SALE

At 08:05 AM 4/15/98 -0500, John Strauss wrote:
>The Red Book is a handbook that lists all the VIN and other code info for
>Ford pickups, Rancheros, and Broncos '46-'77. I use mine probably as much
>as all my other Ford books combined. It's hand sized so it is easy to take
>along with you when looking at used trucks for sale.

Is there anything like this for '78-'79 trucks?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 03:57:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Moburg
Subject: New member - helping nephew with 61

Greetings!

My nephew (16 and just got his license) just bought a '61 half ton fleetside (sorry if that's the wrong term) unibody from a neighbor. It's kind of rough but all there, and it only cost him $100. I'm going to help him do some work on it, and I thought I'd seek the collective knowledge. A couple of questions to start off:

The truck is a 6-cylinder, he told me it was 223 cu. in. It appears to have adjustable rocker arms, with which I'm very familiar (2 Triumphs and an MG). What are the clearances, and do you set them hot or cold?....

---

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