Re: Aluminum Heads

fordtrucks61-79-digest Monday, April 6 1998 Volume 02 : Number 201

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In this issue:

Re: Aluminum Heads [George Herpich ]
Re: Check out Tony Marino's '78 F150 ["Deacon" ]
Swaybar conversion [BDIJXS ]
Bolt-on tracks for Toyota SUV's. Can go on a Ford? ["Deacon"
Track Bar Bushings [BDIJXS ]
Parking Brake Cables ["Jon" ]
Re: 352 Rebuild Questions [Ken Payne ]
Re: 352 Rebuild Questions [Ractrk002 ]
352 Rebuild [ballingr

ldd.net (WILLIAM L BALLINGER)]
RE: Small block to FE conversion [Sleddog ]
Re: Check out Tony Marino's '78 F150 [GMPACHECO ]
RE: Small block to FE conversion [Mike Schwall ]
RE: Small block to FE conversion [Sleddog ]
RE: Small block to FE conversion [Mike Schwall ]
Re: Check out Tony Marino's '78 F150 [Tony Marino ]

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Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 06:24:45 -0400
From: George Herpich
Subject: Re: Aluminum Heads

I doubt if Edelbrock grinds the valve stems for standard push rods. These heads
are probably meant for adjustable rockers. Do they mention this in the
instructions?
Just something to think about in case you haven't already.

George

PAUL MONTY wrote:

> Hi, Paul from CA here. I lurk alot on this list and I've made a few posts
> and individual communications with a couple of you guys. When I saw the
> dialogue on aluminum heads I thought I'd share my recent experiences. Just
> bought a pair of Edelbrock Performer RPM heads for my '71 F-250, 390. Have
> had the truck since I bought it new at 18. Racked up but 90K in those 27
> years. Only engine work was a valve job in '79, at 49K when I had
> stainless 2.09 valves put in. CA just relaxed their smog stuff for pre'73
> vehicles and I've finally been freed to play.
>
> Bought some cast-iron 406 manifolds that a guy (professional welder) had
> modified to fit his own F-250 but then sold the truck sans the motor. Got
> them for a ridiculous $60 because the right side modification (changed the
> dump-off from straight down to out the back, much like the stock 390
> configuration) killed their restoration value. A few weeks ago I went to
> pull the stock manifolds that suffocate the FE only to break one of the
> studs off flush with the heads. Soaked, tapped, soaked, and warmed-up the
> block and the darn thing still broke. Turned out to be serendipity because
> when I pulled the head I found that my exhaust valves had recessed
> themselves about .125 into their seats. When I had the heads done in '79
> installing hardened valve seats wasn't something that was done.
>
> Instead of opting to plunk several hundred into my stock FE heads I chose
> to pursue my
> long-awaited dream of tweaking the 390. Still waiting on new head bolts
> (both Edelbrock
> ARP are two weeks back-ordered at Summit and PAW suppliers). Got stainless
> bolts for
> intake (also Edelbrock, but not the RPM version--I want the low-end torque)
> and exhaust
> manifolds.
>
> As far as mods necessary to install the Edelbrock heads. They say that
> they are direct
> bolt-on and mostly they are. Since they are modeled after the 427 MR
> configuration more
> than any other, the intake ports don't allow as large a boss for the rocker
> arm bolts and the
> instructions call for you to grind a bit off their length so they don't
> bottom. I took .200 off all
> eight of them. Also, Edelbrock doesn't cast the intakes in exactly the
> same location as the
> stock FE heads so you have to break down the rocker arm shafts (it takes a
> bit of time, but
> inspecting them for wear and cleaning them is always good) and install a
> .060 shim between
> the rocker shaft stands and each of the intake rockers so the rocker
> contacts the valve on
> the middle of the stem face. Edelbrock says you can use valve shims and I
> got eight of them
> with an i.d. of .875 from my local Napa outlet. The rocker shafts measured
> what they should
> at .843.
>
> All that's done. Now I await the head bolts, which Summit says are
> scheduled in this Monday.
> BTW, both heads weigh 57lbs. assembled, as opposed to 48.5lbs. for each
> cast head.
>
> I hope I haven't bored you guys. I'll post more as things develop.
>
> Paul Monty
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79

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> | List removal information is on the web site. |
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Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:07:34 -0700
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: Check out Tony Marino's '78 F150

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tony Marino
Date: Saturday, April 04, 1998 8:29 PM

>WOW! About a week with the page and It's already got acclaim! My
>first critic, I'm sure glad it's a good review!

Your lucky you caught me in a good mood. :)

>Hey Deacon. Glad to see you back. I've been silent on here for about
>3 months because I felt like I didn't have much to add over what you
>guys cover everyday. You are all great people.

I rarely have anything of value to say. Most people wish I would
keep silent. I post mostly for my own enjoyment (I guess you'd call it
posturbation :]) I do know what your sayin', most of these guys blow me
away with the things they know!

>You remind me of a co-worker named Andre. Get the picture? Ha ha
>ha. I understand every ebonical word!

Hey, what up Homeboy? I'm as white as David Duke! Just cuz I rap
like a gangster don't mean I ain't no cracker! (Flashing gangbang sighs
you can't see) Ain't no culture in my family tree Spanky. Know what my
talkin bout Hommmeboy? :)

>You know, sometimes you have to realize that God does have a sence of
>humor!

Don't I know it! : ]

>The bed was far from stock. (I really didn't like it to tell you the
>truth) but let me say one thing... IT WAS HEAVY!!! The floor was 12x2
>oak! This thing was built to last! (made nice tractor and car ramps!)
>8-)

I figured you didn't like it or you'd of kept it! :) I carry pallets
of stuff in my truck and forklift drivers have made the tailgate a
little ugly and when I have 2 pallets in the back I need to tie a rope
to the second pallet to drag it with a forklift to the back of the bed
so they can pick it up. Makes painting the bed like casting pearls
before swine.
What I want is a flatbed that's no wider than the cab. Two reasons
for this; 1) I can load the pallets from the side and center them on the
bed. When 2000 lbs. isn't centered on the bed I get a little
self-conscious pulling into Mickey D's, plus the Babes with the "No fat
guys" bumper stickers drive past too fast! :) 2) I squeeze my truck into
some tight places. Like when I'm going to turn right and the people
going straight have taken as much of the road as they possibly can so no
one can get passed them. I'll give it a shot If I get the front of the
truck in. I would forget about the bed being wider than the cab and
wipeout cars belonging people I'm already in the mood to punch out! :]
I'd also make sides for it and storage boxes under underneath the
bed. Making it able to dump would be a nice feature too. I thought a lot
about this project. The thing holding me back is the cost of materials.
The wood is expensive but not as expensive as the channel and "I" beam I
what to frame it with. I'm getting too old for bribing the nightshift
guard at the yard for it's liberation. Then again, he's not paid squat
and has mouths to feed too. I feel God would want me to help out the
poor guy. :)

>Actually, part of the deal with getting the shortbed was getting his
>shortbed frame, so I had to retrofit most of my stuff (a few
>crossmembers and things because mine were in better shape) and just
>took it to get blasted and painted.

OK, I get it now. Please excuse the dead brain cells. The 70's were
a little hard on them! :) You cut 18" from your new exhaust! I admit,
from the time I read your page until I asked, my head twisted it around.
What about the vin on the frame? The one on the frame is the primary ID.
That was a slap in the face by reality for me. I bought a '76 F350 cheap
because the paperwork was screwed up. It's clear but one person who had
it lost the pink for it, another guy who had it got a copy from the DMV
but never transferred ownership because of the back fees. Now it's been
so long the fees and fines are as much as what I paid for the truck. I
bought it as a donor for my '73 F100 so the paperwork didn't bother me.
The '73 is smog exempt here in CA. so I wanted to drop my cab on it's
frame, but that's out. I'm going to use everything but the frame now.
The cab is in much better shape on the '76 and so is everything else but
the year it was built. I found out switching the tag on the door isn't a
big deal . I'll just pop rivet it on the new door. If a cop looks at it
and it don't look right to him, the most he'd do is check the frame. As
long as the frame matches the registration everything's cool.

Well, keep us posted on your progress. You've had a lot of
experience already and what your doing to your truck now is what we're
all here to read about. Most of us are just slugs trying to keep our
trucks alive but trust me, even the hard cores here like reading about
projects like yours and they love sharing their knowledge to help out.
(translated that means sticking their nose in your business) :)

Later!

Deacon
deconblu

gte.net
=============================
Nuke the unborn baby whales.
=============================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/

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Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 10:06:49 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: Track Bar Bushings

Hey Spock,

The track bar wearing out is a new one to me. Are you sure he ordered the
correct bushings? I've had my track bar on my '69 F-100 4x4 for 20 years, and
the bar never wore out. I have had problems with the lower bolt on the axle
housing and the upper bolt hole in the bracket wearing out, but never the bar
itself wearing out....If he knew what he was doing with the welder, its
probably ok. But, on stuff like that, I usually try to stay away from the
mickey fix. If you spend just a little time at a few junkyards, you find
another bar.....

Good luck,

Colorado Jeff

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Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 08:23:00 -0800
From: "Jon"
Subject: Parking Brake Cables

I'm replacing the 9inch in my '77 F-150, to a Dana 60
and will need new cables, I'm told there was a change order
in '77 for the F-250 for these cables.
My question is, does anybody know what this change is?

thankyou

jon
URJB Racing...because walking sucks!
VORRA #827 class 8
FORD F-150 svo power
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.urjb.com

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Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 12:00:46 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: 352 Rebuild Questions

At 12:08 AM 4/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi everyone. My problem is that my 65 F100 Custom w/h Camper Spcl. is WORN
>out. The stock 352 smokes likes its going out of style. I cant drive three
>blocks without everyone thinking that my truck's on fire. The problem is
>that its time for a rebuild, but I dont know if I want to rebuild the 352
>or get a larger engine. I've been told that the 352 is rather expensive to
>rebuild and I should look for a 427/460. I'd like to keep the original
>engine in the truck since everything is still original.
>
>So here's my questions.
>1) Would a big block have the same bolt pattern as the 352? So I can keep
>my NP435.
>2) Would it be cheaper to build a 427/460? I dont plan on using the truck
>on the strip, just to tow a camper.

A 352 is not more expensive to rebuild. A high horse power
352 is more expensive to build. Big difference.

>3) How hard is it to rebuild an FE? I've done 302's and 460's.

Easy. Buy "How To Rebuild Big Block Ford Engines", by Steve Christ.
Not only a good FE book, but one of the best rebuild books around.

>4) Should I bore the 352 and build a 390?

>5) What difference is their between the 352 and the 390? Besides cubes.

The stroke is longer and the bore is a blond's hair bigger. All
FEs, for the most part, are identical except for the bore and stroke.
Steves books details differences in the ports but you can pretty much
ignore all that for a stock rebuild.

Ken

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 12:31:29 EDT
From: Ractrk002
Subject: Re: 352 Rebuild Questions

If you could get your hands on a 390 or a 428 It would be worth looking into
building one of those, because you would get an obvous power gain as well as
being a fairly easy swap being that you'd stay in the FE class. Id get the
tranny rebuilt too when you either rebuild that 352 or put another engine in
it.

JT
1969 F100 302/T18 soon to be Hi-Po289 w/C-4

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Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 11:27:42 -0500
From: ballingr

ldd.net (WILLIAM L BALLINGER)
Subject: 352 Rebuild

The 352 is not very expensive to rebuild. Just remember that the engine is
over 30 years old and has performed many hot-cold cycles. The machinework
that you have done will make or break it. You can do a cheapie ring and
valve job that will last 30k, if even that, depending on whether your bores
are tapered too much. Or you can rebuild it. Bores, decks, and mains need to
be made perfect by a competent machinist. Hardenened valves and valve seats
need to be put on the exhaust side. Pull all of the galley plugs and clean
out the oiling system with a rifle brush. Work on the valve covers and oil
pan bolt holes making sure that evey bolt is doing it's job to contain oil.
These things will make a 150k engine that doesn't leak. There are no
(excepting core-shifted castings)bad engines in the Ford family, just poor
machinists and assemblers. Everyone that I have heard complaining about
their "new" engine usually bought a reman from NAPA. If you've ever seen the
cores they reman from, you'll see why. Many home rebuilds fail because of
lack of a clean assenbly area and proper tools. A lot bite the dust when
they are dry-fired, or run without the cooling system bled out. You can't
run a new engine without oil, and you can't get it hot. I have an engine in
my truck now with 10k on it that is a victim of the yahoo mentality, if
someone with half a brain had rebuilt it, it would have been a powerful
quiet engine that didn't leak. It's powerful, but noisy as hell, with a huge
amount of blow-by, and I had to pull and work over the oil-pan and valve
covers to keep oil in it. I bought it with the truck, and I knew it was a
piece, but thats beside the point.
Machinework (don't scrimp!) Assembly (clean and properly lubricated)Break-in
(light-load, moderate acceleration, no decceleration for 150 miles, as
little steady speed running as is possible for 500 miles)
You will be rewarded with an engine equal to anything new.
My personal opinion....keep it with it's original engine. I wish I could
have had mine, even in a basket.

Ballinger
Preferred Company
ballingr

ldd.net

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Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 13:51:37 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: Small block to FE conversion

never heard of that done, as that year never came with a FE. but, why not
a 351W? it is a good engine and should drop right in and bolt to your
current tranny. a 460 can fit too, but you'll need a different tranny bolt
pattern.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Mike Schwall[SMTP:mikes

intx.net]
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 1998 11:34 PM
To: fordtrucks61-79

ListService.net
Subject: Small block to FE conversion

I'm not too familiar with the FE series engines, so I would like some input
from the list about an engine swap. I would like to know what I need to
change/modify to swap a 302 w/C6 to a 390 FE in an '84 F150.

Thanks,

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mikes

intx.net
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes
Ford Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes/fordarea.htm

+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79

listservice.net, |
| List removal information is on the web site. |
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:16:53 EDT
From: GMPACHECO
Subject: Re: Check out Tony Marino's '78 F150

I'm interested in the am/fm radio, I have a 72 that would greatly appreciate
it...

Mike in Seattle

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Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 17:13:45 -0500
From: Mike Schwall
Subject: RE: Small block to FE conversion

At 01:51 PM 4/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>never heard of that done, as that year never came with a FE. but, why not
>a 351W? it is a good engine and should drop right in and bolt to your
>current tranny. a 460 can fit too, but you'll need a different tranny bolt
>pattern.
>
>sleddog

Yeah a 351W and 460 would work great, but I can get my hands on two 390
long blocks for a case of beer each. Just wanted to know what would have
to change, like accessory brackets, bellhousing, tranny, driveshaft
length/yoke.

A friend wants one in his '84 F150 (if it is cheap to convert). He
currently has a 302 with a C6. Would the C6 bolt up to the FE bellhousing
- - or would I have to change tranny cases? What about frame perches? How
does the engine size vary from a 351W or 460?

Thanks,

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mikes

intx.net
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:08:33 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: Small block to FE conversion

AFAIK everything needs to be changed, and you would need a C6 from an FE,
not a small block, M, or 460 engine. frame perches? i have no clue.
cheap to convert? i doubt it!

sleddog

- ----------
From: Mike Schwall[SMTP:mikes

intx.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 1998 6:13 PM
To: fordtrucks61-79

ListService.net
Subject: RE: Small block to FE conversion

At 01:51 PM 4/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>never heard of that done, as that year never came with a FE. but, why not
>a 351W? it is a good engine and should drop right in and bolt to your
>current tranny. a 460 can fit too, but you'll need a different tranny
bolt
>pattern.
>
>sleddog

Yeah a 351W and 460 would work great, but I can get my hands on two 390
long blocks for a case of beer each. Just wanted to know what would have
to change, like accessory brackets, bellhousing, tranny, driveshaft
length/yoke.

A friend wants one in his '84 F150 (if it is cheap to convert). He
currently has a 302 with a C6. Would the C6 bolt up to the FE bellhousing
- - or would I have to change tranny cases? What about frame perches? How
does the engine size vary from a 351W or 460?

Thanks,

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mikes

intx.net
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes

+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79

listservice.net, |
| List removal information is on the web site. |
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 18:48:23 -0500
From: Mike Schwall
Subject: RE: Small block to FE conversion

At 07:08 PM 4/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>AFAIK everything needs to be changed, and you would need a C6 from an FE,
>not a small block, M, or 460 engine. frame perches? i have no clue.
> cheap to convert? i doubt it!
>
>sleddog

That's what I needed to know. Looks like the search for a 351W continues...

Thanks,

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mikes

intx.net
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes
Ford Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes/fordarea.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Apr 1988 21:56:31 -0400....

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