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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:50:56 -0700 (MST)
From: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks61-79-digest)
To: fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks61-79-digest V2 #159
Reply-To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks61-79-digest Wednesday, March 18 1998 Volume 02 : Number 159



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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email to the same address with the word "help" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

RE: 351's [Sleddog ]
Re: 351s ["Dave Resch" ]
Re: Location ["Bill Beyer" ]
Re: Engine Wars, 351s, V10s, and V12s. [Ken Payne ]
1957 F250 Crewcab (no kidding) [Ken Payne ]
Re: Oil Filter Adapter [Ken Payne ]
Re: 6 Cylinder Duraspark [sdelanty ]
Re: Number 4 Main Oil Feed Hole [sdelanty ]
Re: Casting # [sdelanty ]
Re: Intro [sdelanty ]
460 hop-ups [Alan Mittelstaedt / Chad Dailey ]
ADMIN: Topic reminder [Ken Payne ]
Re: 460 hop-ups ["Chris Hedemark" ]
Re: Location> Wipers [CAT LN7 ]
Gas fumes from in-cab tank [Jamey Moss ]
RE: Casting # [DC Beatty ]
Transmissions [Serian ]
Re: 351's [A64F100 ]
Re: 351's [A64F100 ]
Re: Towing [pickup65 juno.com (Jon E Purut)]
Re: 351's [A64F100 ]
Re: 351s [A64F100 ]
Car Show [pickup65 juno.com (Jon E Purut)]
Re: 460 hop-ups ["David W. Anderson" ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:42:22 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: 351's

not a flame, but to build a ford BB, we don't NEED all those choices. the
stock heads are good for power, or torque, and beyond that we only need the
choice of the CJ alum heads or the blue thunders for some wild engines and
then the pro stockers etc have the really good heads to use for these all
out engines.

the same goes for the blocks, rods, etc. in fact many of the parts used
for a killer 460 come off the same shelf as the BB chubby parts. the price
really evens out at higher power levels. sure, you have to look harder for
the info to do the build. but at least when you find it you do not have to
sort thru as BS to find the really important stuff. just my $.02.

sleddog

ps-some of the magazines did comparos on the ford, bowtie, mopar builds.
comparing power, torque, and cost. if i remember right the chevy came out
on the bottom each time (there's that failing memory again?). the mopar
was the cheepest power/$$ deal.

take a look at crate engines. the smallblocks from the OEM cost about the
same, but the mopar 360 (380 hp) makes the most power. can't remember
where the ford & chubby fell.



If you want to talk big blocks the Ch**y's have all the marbles again
and building an equivalent ford will cost about twice as much as a
ch**y and power options are much scarcer. I know, they are out there
but nothing like the ch**ys so hold the flames :-)

The fact that it takes more brains simply means we get more
satisfaction out of our projects because we have accomplished more
Personally that's worth it to me :-)

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's

- -- Gary --






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
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+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:11:15 -0700
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: 351s

>From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
>Subject: Re: 351's
>
>Davey, Ya just got to try a 460 before you get to
>carried away here.
>There really is a BIG difference, trust me :-)
Yo Gary:

I know there's a difference, but I've already been carried away. They
don't call me "M-block devotee" for nuthin! In fact, "they" don't call me
"M-block devotee" at all, I made that one up myself. I figured it sounded
better than "weenie ineffective retrofit smog design that is said to be a
'good torque motor' so we don't hurt their feelings lover." So there!

Dave R (M-block devotee)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:59:01 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: Location

- ----------
> From: am14 chrysler.com
> To: Fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> Subject: Location
> Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 7:19 AM

> No offence meant Bill. I just was not aware of these Names of towns in
> N. America. Sounded more like England to me. I lived in Klamath
> Falls, Oregon for around 18 months, but I don't remember these names.
> I just wanted to know.
>

None taken. Actually I believe that Sebastopol has Russian roots. There was
alot of Russian fur trading along the No Cal coast in the late 1800s. I've
been told that Geyserville is named because of some nearby hot springs.

End of history lesson.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:33:41 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: Engine Wars, 351s, V10s, and V12s.

At 09:12 PM 3/16/98 CST, you wrote:
- -snip-
>
>BTW, I have one of those old V6's laying around (I am not sure if it is
>a 305 or 351). It came out of a '65 GMC 1/2 ton. Pulled real hard off
>the line! All torque! (I am talking max torque 2000 RPM). A real
>conversation piece. When I mantion it most people *correct* me by saying
>"No, you mean a 305 or 351 V8." He, he, he. Oh yeah, the engine *looks*
>as big as a V8 and has the spark plugs on the intake side of the head
>rather than the exhaust side.
>
>Still not as cool as a Ford 300 I6, though...:)
>
>Harry.
>

My dad had one of those 305s V6s. Anytime you fit that many cubes
into 6 cylinders you're going to get a torque monster. Did Ford
ever make a similar beast?

- -Ken

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:43:40 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: 1957 F250 Crewcab (no kidding)

Someone sent me a picture of a 1957 F250 Crewcab. This
is very rare. The picture is rather old, the truck
problably doesn't exist anymore. Too bad. Anyways,
I'll announce it when its on the web site. I just thought
some of you might be interested.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:55:47 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: Oil Filter Adapter

At 08:27 AM 3/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Somebody, early-on in this thread wrote:
>> >>You cannot use a PH8A. It
>> >>will not fit! And if you could get it in, one good stomp on the
>> >>gas would cause the engine torque to crush it.
>
>Actually, the engine torque will cause the filter assembly to lift away
>from the cross-member. (Exhaust manifold will be lifting on the
>driver's side.) This is assuming, of course, that you are in a forward
>gear. Stomping on the gas in reverse is a different matter.
>
>-Marv-

You are correct. I have first hand experience, broke the
left motor mount two years ago.

Try this one out:
I gave it some gas pulling into a parking lot. Engine mount
broke, pulling the left side of the engine up. This in turn
pulled the throttle linkage, pulling the engine up further,
pulling the throttle linkage.... you get the picture?

One its way up, the linkage pulled out the vacuum line to
the brake booster. Here I was, 60 mph in a parking lot,
virtually no brakes and I jumped a curb to miss another car
and a pedestrian before I was able to turn the gas off.
Closest I've ever come to crapping in my drawers.

I eased it home. Lifted the hood, gave it gas (this time with
the parking brake and the brake peddle floored) and watched the
left side of the engine lift about 9 inches! If the right side
had torn loose in that parking lot I probably would have eaten
a 670lb spinning FE for lunch. It would have been my last meal.

- -Ken

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:44:37 -0800
From: sdelanty
Subject: Re: 6 Cylinder Duraspark

>Don, Any suggestions for sources for the electronic distributor parts ?
>

Dunno where Don gets His, but I know where I get mine...

Used at the wrecking yard, rebuilt at any auto parts store.
I usually search the wreckers first.

Happy motoring,

Steve

Opportunity may knock only once,
but temptation leans on the doorbell.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:44:40 -0800
From: sdelanty
Subject: Re: Number 4 Main Oil Feed Hole

>> Yes! I had forgotten that I did that, too. This is best
>> accomplished with a high-speed tool like a Dremel with a 1/8 inch
>> carbide burr chucked up. Check all five of these, as I remember at
>> least one other that was partially plugged, though not quite so
>> drastically.

>Azie and Marv, Why did you guys do this again?? It seems to fly in
>the face of modern thinking from what I've read? I know for a fact
>that the cleveland required restrictors in the cam passages from the
>mains to run hard or all the oil got pumped up into the top end and
>cavitated the bearings??

Ummm, I'm confused here... Are we talking about opening the hole on
the #4 main bearing saddle? Since the FE bearings are oiled from above,
from the cam bearing area, how does opening this hole increase oil to
anything but the #4 bearing? (Yes, I opened mine up)
Remember that the regular, "non side-oiler" FE's have the main oil
passage *above* the camshaft. Oil comes thru this passage, down to
the cam bearings and then down to the mains. Opening the #4 oil hole
does not increase flow to the top end, only to the #4 bearing.

One of the problems with the FE is that it pumps *way* too much oil to
the rocker assemblies, robbing pressure from the bottom end and also
filling the rocker chambers with oil at high RPM's.
This is easily cured by tapping the oil passage in the head (just under
the rocker stand) and inserting a restrictor plug.
This passage is the right diameter to tap for a 3/8"-18 bolt.
I ran a tap down the passage, took a 3/8"-18 bolt and cut a piece about
7/16" long off of it so I had a short "stud". I took this piece and sawed
a groove on one end of it for a screwdriver slot, then drilled a 1/16"
hole (.062") down the center of it.
These were my "restrictor plugs". I screwed them into the tapped passages
in the heads and put the rockers back on and all done...
This change brought my "summertime hot" idle oil pressure up from 12-13psi
up to 16-17psi. I use 10-40 oil...
The rockers still get more than enough oil and I may change the restrictor
plugs to 3/64" (.047") next time I've got a reason to take the rockers off.

Have any of You other FE guys done this "restrictor trick" yet?
If You're carefull and adventurous it can be done in a couple hours
without removing the heads...

Happy motoring,

Steve

Opportunity may knock only once,
but temptation leans on the doorbell.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:44:44 -0800
From: sdelanty
Subject: Re: Casting #

>Steve writes: >>Hell, I couldn't even *find* casting #'s when I had my
>>390 block stripped down... It was all clean and I searched
>>everywhere. Where are they supposed to be?

>In the front of engine, just to the left(drivers side) of the timing
>chain cover you will most likely find "352" cast right in.
>Don't mean a Darn thing, but its there.
>
>Azie
>Ardmore, Al.

Well yeah, the "352" is there, but what about some real block numbers?
Ya' know, D1AE-xxxxx or something like it...
I had my block stripped on the stand and clean enough to make lunch on
and I couldn't find anything other than the "352".
That only identifies it as FE and I knew *that* already!
It seems not all FE blocks have a number. Do Yours?
Where are they?

Happy motoring,

Steve

Opportunity may knock only once,
but temptation leans on the doorbell.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:44:46 -0800
From: sdelanty
Subject: Re: Intro

>> Marko - Sorry to hear about your nose, get a steering wheel puller.
>
>I always leave the nut part way on..............??
>
>78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
>78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
>
>- -- Gary --

I made a "puller" for mine.
My steering wheel has two 5/16" fine thread (5/16"-27?) bolt holes in it
on either side of the steering shaft.
I took a piece of 1-1/2" wide x 3/8" thick flat bar, 2" long and drilled
a 3/8" hole near each end. I lay this over the end of the steering shaft
and start some bolts thru my "puller" into the holes in the steering wheel.
As You tighten the bolts it pulls the steering wheel off.
And it doesn't hurt Your eye or nose...

Steve

Opportunity may knock only once,
but temptation leans on the doorbell.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:53:09 -0800
From: Alan Mittelstaedt / Chad Dailey
Subject: 460 hop-ups

Hi all--

Just reading thru my new National Dragster (vol. 39 issue 9, Pit Talk,
page 34), and saw a page long article on 460 build-ups. There are some
impressive torque numbers in this article. William McKinley in Ada,
Ohio (419) 634-7556 is the responsible gentleman for the improvement. I
am willing to scan this article for those of you interested. (Sleddog,
do you hear this?)

Chad
- --
No good deed goes unpunished.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:05:29 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: Topic reminder

We have a few list members who have limited daily emails
with their providers. Please keep the topics on Ford
Trucks if at all possible so people's mailboxes don't
overflow. This causes me problems because I receive
the hundreds of bounced email messages when this happens.

I'm just as guilty as anyone else (I too posted to the
gas price thread) so I'm not pointing any fingers at
anyone. Just wanted to make everyone aware that not
everyone can handle the volume. Most notable cases:
AOL and Juno have 100 email storage limites.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:20:12 -0500
From: "Chris Hedemark"
Subject: Re: 460 hop-ups

Consider me a vote for "interested"

Chris Hedemark
Yonder Way
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: Alan Mittelstaedt / Chad Dailey
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 10:01 PM
Subject: 460 hop-ups


>Hi all--
>
>Just reading thru my new National Dragster (vol. 39 issue 9, Pit Talk,
>page 34), and saw a page long article on 460 build-ups. There are some
>impressive torque numbers in this article. William McKinley in Ada,
>Ohio (419) 634-7556 is the responsible gentleman for the improvement. I
>am willing to scan this article for those of you interested. (Sleddog,
>do you hear this?)
>
>Chad
>--
>No good deed goes unpunished.
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
>| List removal information is on the web site. |
>+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:52:01 EST
From: CAT LN7
Subject: Re: Location> Wipers

>Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:25:51 -0800
>From: "Bill Beyer"
>Subject: Re: Location
>
>Mandatory FTC: Anybody ever have a problem with the wipers not turning off?
>Yes the switch has already been replaced.

Check the "PARK" switch or wire. This is required for the wipers to shut off.

Chris Thompson
67 F100 240/ 3sp (soon to be 302/C4)
68 Cougar DGS 302/C4
82 Merc LN7 1.6L/4sp

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:40:21 -0600
From: Jamey Moss
Subject: Gas fumes from in-cab tank

I sent this message a couple months ago, but I never saw it show up in the
digest. I recently scanned the archives and it looks like it never went out,
so here it goes again:


The gas fumes coming from my in-cab tank on my '67 F100 were getting a bit
obnoxious, so I replaced the 4" hose that connects the filler neck to the tank
to try to correct the problem. I also used new screw-type hose clamps instead
of the factory clamps, and now the cab has _no_ gas smell at all. I had
always assumed that "old trucks just smell like that," but this completely
fixed the problem.

I bought the hose at the Ford dealership for about $11 (a bit high for 4
inches of hose) and had to use some silicone lubricant to slide the new hose
onto the tank because that's a really awkward position to use much force when
the tank and seat are still in the truck. I also replaced the filler neck
grommet while I was at it (easy as pie when the filler neck is out).

Just thought I'd pass on a cheap (
these trucks with gas tanks behind the seat.


Jamey Moss ra4001 email.sps.mot.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:58:57 -0500
From: DC Beatty
Subject: RE: Casting #

Steve. Check down around where the oil filter adapter bolts up. There wer=
e
two screwed in tag looking things on mine with ##. Also, at the back of t=
he
block below the right side head. I saw numbers there on mine. Next time I=
'm
over at the garage I'll try to narrow it down more for you.

Drew Beatty
1967 F100 352
1974 Maverick 302

snip

Steve wrote =



numbers?
Ya' know, D1AE-xxxxx or something like it...
I had my block stripped on the stand and clean enough to make lunch on
and I couldn't find anything other than the "352". =

That only identifies it as FE and I knew *that* already!
It seems not all FE blocks have a number. Do Yours?
Where are they? >> =

=

Happy motoring,

Steve
=

Opportunity may knock only once,
but temptation leans on the doorbell. =

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:33:15 -0500
From: Serian
Subject: Transmissions

>Uh Serian, why not just buy *one* well built transmission and be done with
>it? I don't know how much you are spending on transmissions but I'm sure if
>you added it up it would be worth the price of one really solidly built
>trans.

Um, because ten used transmissions over the course of six years is a bit more
affordable than shelling out the cost of one brand new one all at once.
Some of
us folk just cant afford to fork over $1200 or so for just one part to a
vehicle.

Wish I had that kind of readily available cash ... but, I don't, and so got
to get
what works within the budget as well as bolts up properly. Besides, I can
find some pretty decent WHOLE vehicles for that cost ...




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:20:02 EST
From: A64F100
Subject: Re: 351's

In a message dated 98-03-17 14:53:02 EST, you write:


that's a fact, Jack. >>

That may be true but think of all the motorsport stuff now made for a 5.0
(although expensive). I'm not tryin to say one's better than the other, I
mean, I owned a 75 effie with a 390, and I loved it,(except the smog laws) but
I think 5.0's are a bitchin way to customize an old ford... I saw a '37 pickup
(I think) that had a 5.0/AOD and 9" rear in it. It was sweet. I guess it's
kinda the best of both worlds.. old cars, new technology (and without any smog
regulations...)

Later,
Scott L

*Keep It Ford Blue*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:23:27 EST
From: A64F100
Subject: Re: 351's

In a message dated 98-03-17 15:55:37 EST, you write:


satisfaction out of our projects because we have accomplished more
Personally that's worth it to me :-)
>>
that's a good philosophy. :)

Later,
Scott L

*Keep It Ford Blue*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:14:15 -0500
From: pickup65 juno.com (Jon E Purut)
Subject: Re: Towing

The instructions that came with my tow bar has a section specifically on
towing with pickups.

And I quote:

"Special instructions for using a pickup truck or van as the towing
vehicle

*Pickup or van must weigh 1-1/2 times as much as towed vehicle.
Example: To tow 3000 lb. vehicle, pickup or van must weigh at least
4500 lb.
*If towing vehicle does not weigh enough, Weight must be added to prevent
an unstable towing combination. Instability can lead to loss of control
and/or a "jackknife" condition.
*Some step bumpers restrict turning. Use extra caution. Turning too
sharply can damage the tow bar, the hitch ball and the bumper."

End Quote.

Just thought I would pass this along.

Jon E. Purut
Pickup65 juno.com
JCPurut worldnet.att.net
Web Site Under Construction

1964 F500 (too heavy for a tow bar)
1965 F100 SWB Daily Driver
1965 F100
1977 F150
1970 Mustang Fastback
1993 Escort Wagon (wife's car)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:34:40 EST
From: A64F100
Subject: Re: 351's

In a message dated 98-03-17 17:50:11 EST, you write:


comparing power, torque, and cost. if i remember right the chevy came out
on the bottom each time (there's that failing memory again?). the mopar
was the cheepest power/$$ deal. >>
I saw an article like that in Car Craft (I think) and the che*y 502 crate
motor came in third. The 460 Ford was in 2nd with (I think, I'm still tryin to
dig the article up) around 500 hp. Of course the 518 Hemi Mopar was in 1st, I
think that's not quite a surprise considering the cubic inch difference. I'm
not sure about the prices on any of these, but I know they're all crate
motors, and the Hemi was VERY expensive... Looks like Ford was the best bet in
this one...

Later,
Scott L

*Keep It Ford Blue*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:42:12 EST
From: A64F100
Subject: Re: 351s

In a message dated 98-03-17 19:32:55 EST, you write:


better than "weenie ineffective retrofit smog design that is said to be a
'good torque motor' so we don't hurt their feelings lover." >>

OUCH! Don't be so hard on yourself, and other M block owners for that
matter... I think 351M/400's are great... I'm not a hardcore racer, but my 400
accomplishes what needs to be done... and frankly anything over 5500 rpms
scares the crap outta me- No matter what the engine. -I mean, I need my daily
driver so why push the limit... and after all, it's not always HP that wins
the race.. If you got low RPM torque, you got a good takeoff.. And some good
towing power (should you need it)
Well, just thought I'd throw in my view of things....

Later,
Scott L

*Keep It Ford Blue*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:46:55 -0500
From: pickup65 juno.com (Jon E Purut)
Subject: Car Show

Chris and George (fomoconut too), you guys may be interested in this. The
first saturday of every month the Carolina Cruisers Custom Car Club have
a gathering here in Raleigh. It is held at the Char Grill hamburger joint
on Wake Forest Road and is open to anyone. People bring out everything
from wild customs to bone stock restos. Last time I went among other
things there were four cobra replicas and one rail dragster. What a rush!


The real treat is when the show breaks up and the participants start
driving back home they always seem to apply too much throttle when
pulling out of the parking lot. The sound of a 427 screaming up the road
is beautiful to hear even if it is in a cobra replica. (Disclaimer: I do....


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