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Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 03:50:35 -0700 (MST)
From: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks61-79-digest)
To: fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks61-79-digest V2 #131
Reply-To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks61-79-digest Saturday, March 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 131



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: 460 aftermarket ["Bill Beyer" ]
Re: V*lare Rear End [Marv Miller ]
Re: Antenna Frenching [Antonio Gonella ]
Re: 460 aftermarket ["Chris Hedemark" ]
Re: 460 aftermarket [Gardner ]
Re: Altered suspension [Serian ]
RE: 460 aftermarket [Sleddog ]
Overdrive Transmission [Serian ]
Questions.... ["Chris Samuel" ]
Re: '71 F350 [Ken Payne ]
Re: Airborne? [CandyDMan ]
Re: 460 aftermarket ["Bill Beyer" ]
Re: Frenched antennas [GMPACHECO ]
Re: Frenched antennas [danadeb pacbell.net]
Posting JPGs [danadeb pacbell.net]
Re: Frenched antennas ["Deacon" ]
Re: Frenched antennas [Dennis Pearson ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 15:12:15 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: 460 aftermarket

- ----------
> From: Sleddog
> To: 'fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net'
> Subject: RE: 460 aftermarket
> Date: Friday, March 06, 1998 6:56 AM
>
> i keep hearing that the aftermarket suport for the 460 is not there. why

> do i hear this? the 460 doesn't need many aftermarket parts to make a
very
> strong street motor or even street/strip. they work very well with stock

> parts and a little blueprinting and a good cam, and a little grinding in
> the exhaust port up to more power than most people can use.
>
> now when you want even more power, there is plenty of support. sure, not

> alot of choices as far as cranks, blocks, heads, but enough to say the
> support is there. if you want a million different choices, buy one of
> those bowtie things. in the last couple of years, as ford has almost
> abandoned the 385 series, the aftermarket has expanded its coverage.
>
> the biggest problem with the aftermarket support, is the price of the
> componants. but, now even the CJ heads fully assembled are only a little

> over $2000, and that is well in line with other engines.
>
> my first 460 build i thought there was no support, but i am finding new
> sources all the time for anything i could want (and not afford :( ).
> even the hemi headed 385's are getting big support, although only for
the
> big buck racers.
>



I have to agree. The 460 has a huge aftermarket compared to my poor 400M!

(Sorry just hadta' whine a little!)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 15:19:33 -0800
From: Marv Miller
Subject: Re: V*lare Rear End

marko helix.net (marko maryniak) wrote:

> I got one, running gear was a bit bastardized by the last owner (v*lare > rear end) but the body's quite solid.
> It's a ford though.

Now THAT'S a switch. We got a V*lare FRONT end waiting to go into our
'56 big window. It lends itself nicely to the Effie with front disks,
same bolt pattern, adjustable height, integral power steering, etc.
Never before heard of anybody wanting to use the rear-end, but as
someone (I suppose famous) once said: "there's no accounting for
taste". Sounds like they never heard of a Versailles. Nine inch,
bulletproof, and disks!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 15:27:09 -0700
From: Antonio Gonella
Subject: Re: Antenna Frenching

>From what little I know you use a hole saw (do a trial in some scrap) for
the hole, match tubing size.
Cut tubing which will act as "well" slightly longer than desired and at
angle of cab surface. Cap one end of tube. Drill two holes at bottom, one
for antenna, one for drain. Prime and paint parts of tube that will later
be hidden in body.
Place tube in hole, leaving 1/8" protruding above cab surface.
Tack weld, check alignment. Weld, and grind off the protruding 1/8".
I havent done this myself but this how I saw it described in some books at
the library, and in a article on putting new caddy tailights on an old
truck.
Hope this helps.
Antonio
59 Ranchero

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:28:55 -0500
From: "Chris Hedemark"
Subject: Re: 460 aftermarket

I think you misinterpreted my original post a bit. :-) I know that all the
parts I would need to do a 460 engine are available. No, there's not a WIDE
variety, but it's no trouble at all to get 600hp from a 460 with off the
shelf parts. The point of my original post was that the aftermarket for the
windsor family of engines is *HUGE*. I can't count on all of my fingers all
of the different heads that are available. I'd have to add in my toes to
even attempt counting all of the intake manifold options. EFI support is
VERY STRONG with this car and a 500HP naturally aspirated windsor family
motor is no longer out of reach. In the EFI flavor, you can run insane
amounts of boost on a properly built engine and make more power than I would
ever want at my control. These days it is getting more and more common to
see 12 second Mustangs that are used for commuting *every day* and are very
well behaved on the street. So the R&D, and product availability, are
probably strongest for the windsor family than any other Ford engine family.

Does that mean I want a windsor in a truck? Maybe. I'd like to look into
the feasability of doing a 460 buildup but I'm really hooked on EFI motors
now and I don't even think that there is an EFI lower intake available for
the 460, is there? Ford SVO makes one for the 351W which basically allows
you to bolt on a Mustang EFI system. I've also heard of a similar intake
available from a 3rd party manufacturer that will mate a Mustang EFI to a
351 Cleveland. Both of these options are *quite* tempting.

Chris Hedemark
Yonder Way
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 19:09:12 -0500
From: Gardner
Subject: Re: 460 aftermarket

Chris Hedemark wrote:
>
> I think you misinterpreted my original post a bit. :-) I know that all the
> parts I would need to do a 460 engine are available. No, there's not a WIDE
> variety, but it's no trouble at all to get 600hp from a 460 with off the
> shelf parts. The point of my original post was that the aftermarket for the
> windsor family of engines is *HUGE*. I can't count on all of my fingers all
> of the different heads that are available. I'd have to add in my toes to
> even attempt counting all of the intake manifold options. EFI support is
> VERY STRONG with this car and a 500HP naturally aspirated windsor family
> motor is no longer out of reach. In the EFI flavor, you can run insane
> amounts of boost on a properly built engine and make more power than I would
> ever want at my control. These days it is getting more and more common to
> see 12 second Mustangs that are used for commuting *every day* and are very
> well behaved on the street. So the R&D, and product availability, are
> probably strongest for the windsor family than any other Ford engine family.
>
> Does that mean I want a windsor in a truck? Maybe. I'd like to look into
> the feasability of doing a 460 buildup but I'm really hooked on EFI motors
> now and I don't even think that there is an EFI lower intake available for
> the 460, is there? Ford SVO makes one for the 351W which basically allows
> you to bolt on a Mustang EFI system. I've also heard of a similar intake
> available from a 3rd party manufacturer that will mate a Mustang EFI to a
> 351 Cleveland. Both of these options are *quite* tempting.
>
> Chris Hedemark
> Yonder Way
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

I am quite happy with my 94 lightning with the 351 windsor. gt40 head
and cobra style intake. I think SVO offers this as a crate engine now
and there are lots off after market parts. Lots of different head,
superchargers, mass air conversions, cams, computer chips, NOS, ignitons
uprades, you name its out there.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 20:26:36 -0500
From: Serian
Subject: Re: Altered suspension

A listmember wrote:
>So just because your state looks like "truck country", don't assume that the
>lawmakers are looking out for your best interests.

This is because of voter apathy. If you want your lawmakers to kill the bill
that offends our trucks, tell them, yell at them, make them do their job of
*representing the people*. If they dont, vote them out of office and out of
a job that they obviously won't do properly anyway.

If enough people make it known that we like our trucks with a little more
road and stump clearace, they will listen, or they won't be lawmakers any
more.

== Serian

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 19:59:19 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: 460 aftermarket

no, i didn't think i did. but, it wasn't directed at you really. i hear
it alot. yes i know there's a HUGE selection of parts for the windsors (i
have been paying a little attention as the factory five cobra kit looks
like a real value and i would use a 351W for it.)

i just mean that, as for heads, the little blocks have TOO many choices,
and half of them are so similiar that it really just confuses things. and
as for other parts, every one charges the same amount basically, so which
company do you buy from? which part is better? here, i think less choices
makes for an easier engine build. as for a 500 horse windsor, it would be
cheaper to build an equal 460 by far. it still holds true, no substitute
for cubic inches!

EFI can be done on a 460, but i never tried, though i have heard that the
later model heads and the EFI will make power.

small blocks really are fun and a good choice. supercharging a modern
motor can be very exciting and will provide great reliability with a better
than stock bottom end, or even a stock one for those who don't use the
boost often. gas mileage for a blown small block should be better than a
equal 460 i would think.

but, i also do have a thing for EFI motors. always liked a modern engine
in an old car/truck (like a V10 in a 40's powerwagon, or a SHO v6 in a
small british sports car from the 50's)

i'd like to hear about what you decide to do. i just like motors, big or
small, new or old. how about EFI on a 400M using 351C 4V heads? hmm, i
like that idea...now, where did i put that 400 block...oh, theres some
heads...maybe noone will notice they're missing...

sleddog

- ----------
From: Chris Hedemark[SMTP:chris yonderway.com]
Sent: Friday, March 06, 1998 6:28 PM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Re: 460 aftermarket

I think you misinterpreted my original post a bit. :-)

Does that mean I want a windsor in a truck? Maybe. I'd like to look into
the feasability of doing a 460 buildup but I'm really hooked on EFI motors
now and I don't even think that there is an EFI lower intake available for
the 460, is there? Ford SVO makes one for the 351W which basically allows
you to bolt on a Mustang EFI system. I've also heard of a similar intake
available from a 3rd party manufacturer that will mate a Mustang EFI to a
351 Cleveland. Both of these options are *quite* tempting.

Chris Hedemark
Yonder Way
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.yonderway.com








+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| List removal information is on the web site. |
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 20:51:54 -0500
From: Serian
Subject: Overdrive Transmission

>Another question: I don't know what the Ford 4sp O/D transmissions are
>called, but will one bolt onto the bellhousing of a 71 F350 w/360 and a New
>Process 435 w/granny gear?

According to my Chilton's, there is one referred to as a "Clark 4 spd
overdrive"
that was put into the some of the same years and models as the NP435. I would
guess that this would be a bolt in, or the most you would have to do is swap
bellhousings too.

Transmission code is B for the 79-86 model years

I'm not sure, but I dont think this transmission was made prior to '79, so you
will have the best luck finding one in an '80's truck.

Personally, I like the NP435 ... and there are a lot of them. I think that
it may
very well be easier to get parts for the NP435 unit than the Clark if and when
they are needed. (manufactured from mid 60's to mid 80's was it ?)

== Serian


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:08:40 -0800
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: Questions....

I am in the final stages of putting my 79 Bronco back together. Having set
the empty block in its home to build the Headers, I set the intake manifold,
Carb and Air Cleaner on the Heads and... The top of the Air Cleaner will be
about 1.75 inches above the hood. I am curious if you all have any input on
the type of Hood Scoop that looks the best on our trucks. I looked at the
CJ Shaker type but the scale is wrong. This is a serious 4x, my only
stipulations are: 2.5 to 3.5 inches tall, Rear Opening, and must be
Fiberglass.

Recently I designed a Valve Cover for a customer, while this cover was for
a engine of inferior design and manufacture then any of us would ever run
(BBC); is strikes me that there might be a demand for a custom Valve Cover
for a thinking persons choice of power plant.
The Valve Cover I designed accommodates virtually any Valve Train, and is a
light weight Casting, easily polished should one wish it. The top of the
cover was left blank (no holes) but with 2 inch wide, 3/4 inch thick bosses
(Internal) that could be machined for Breathers or whatever; it also had my
customers company name cast into the top.
The cost of the Valve cover varies depending on the quantity ordered, but
for the BBC items ready to bolt on, it ran about $125 a set in a low
quantity run (100 sets I believe).
So, is there enough interest here in a high quality custom Valve Cover to
justify such an undertaking?
If so for which engines?

Chris.
Husband, Father, Machinist, Gearhead
79 Bronco Built 400M and going back together finally!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 21:37:28 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: '71 F350

At 10:13 PM 3/5/98 EST, you wrote:
>I was rold it was a 360 but I have noticed 352 molded into the block on the
>drivers side of the engine just above where the fuel pump sits. If it turns
>out to be a 352 or 360 what are some simple ways to tweak out some more
>horses? I have been thinking about an aluminum intake and headers.
>
>darell

All FE blocks have 352 on them. Find a 4 barrel intake at
a junk yard (the stock 4 bbl intakes weren't bad) and get
a carb and cam to go with it.

Ken Payne

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:42:15 EST
From: CandyDMan
Subject: Re: Airborne?

They don't put Airborne personnel into "perfectly good" airplanes--keeps the
incentive to jump out up!! :)

Dennis Candy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:57:14 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: 460 aftermarket

- ----------
> From: Chris Hedemark
> To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> Subject: Re: 460 aftermarket
> Date: Friday, March 06, 1998 3:28 PM
>
> Does that mean I want a windsor in a truck? Maybe. I'd like to look
into
> the feasability of doing a 460 buildup but I'm really hooked on EFI
motors
> now and I don't even think that there is an EFI lower intake available
for
> the 460, is there? Ford SVO makes one for the 351W which basically
allows
> you to bolt on a Mustang EFI system. I've also heard of a similar intake
> available from a 3rd party manufacturer that will mate a Mustang EFI to a
> 351 Cleveland. Both of these options are *quite* tempting.
>

By EFI do you mean MFI? EFI stands for Electronic Fuel Injection. Just
about all fuel injection systems these days are electronic. MFI is
multiport/multipoint fuel injection where the injectors are actually in the
manifold as opposed to TBI throttle body injection where the injectors are
in a throttle body on top of the manifold. I thought that the new 460s are
all EFI/MFI. If so that means that Ford must make a "lower intake" for
460s. Maybe I read you post wrong.

On a side note I have also been hearing that actually TBI systems are
better for making power because they do a better job of mixing the air and
fuel. I know that Barry Grant has just come out with a new TBI system which
will mount on any 4V manifold. Don't know the CFM rating but it says it's
for minimum 400 hp engines so it should feed a 460 quite well.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 22:38:33 EST
From: GMPACHECO
Subject: Re: Frenched antennas

What the heck is a Frenched antenna? Is it just me or what??

Mike in Seattle...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 20:17:59 -0800
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Frenched antennas

The term "frenching" refers to recessing things. Headlights taillights antennas
ETC....


The final look for a frenched antenna would be a hole with no visible signs of
the electronically raised and lowered antenna unless you look down into the
hole.


As a side note:

There is another technique for frenching an antenna. Do about everything that a
normal french would need except the large dia tube would not go through the body
panel. There would be only a small hole a little larger then the dia of the
antenna for the antenna to come out of.

Under body mount:

( NOTE: if the image looks funny try quoting this message into a new message,
but don't send the new message, it seems to "fix" the image )

()
( )
||
||
hole ||
- -------------\ || /---------------- body panel
|| || ||
|| || ||
|| || || stud welded to body panel
||
||
|| antenna mast
||
___ __ || __ ____
hole | || | hole
| || |
| || |
| || |
| || | tube with adapters to bolt under body panel
| || |
| || |
|__ __|

hole for antenna
to mount to.


Hope this image makes sense!

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 20:34:09 -0800
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Posting JPGs

Ken,
is there any way that you could setup a spot on the web site for list members to
upload JPGs for all list members to see. Idea is if I scan a picture or draw a
sketch that will help answer or make clearer an answer to a list question, I
could post it where all who wanted to, could go to see. Maybe have an automatic
deletion date of 5 days or so from posting.

What do you think?

If it's possible what do you all think?

Maybe someone on the list with a web site could donate a page to this and we
could E-mail the JPGs to that member and he / she could upload the JPGs to their
page. To keep a sense of separation, the page would not need to be linked to
from the members home page.

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:44:14 -0800
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: Frenched antennas

>From Dana
>The term "frenching" refers to recessing things. Headlights taillights
antennas
>ETC....

Wish Someone said this earlier, before I started thinking about it and
almost choked to death on a 76 antenna ball! :)

Deacon Blues deconblu ....


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