fordtrucks61-79-digest Saturday, February 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 077



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

RE: Carb Size? [Sleddog ]
Re: 390 or 460? [George Herpich ]
Re: Carb Size? [Kurt Albershardt ]
Spring swap [am14 chrysler.com]
302 [am14 chrysler.com]
Lost Digest [am14 chrysler.com]
Parts Location Request " Tilt Steering Wheel Required " ["Admiral J.R.E. ]
Re: 351M manifold [George Herpich ]
Re: 390 or 460? [marko helix.net (marko maryniak)]
Re: 67-72 Fender Liners/4 barrel FE's [BDIJXS aol.com]
Re:Married transfer cases [BDIJXS aol.com]
Re: "Floating a Valve" [Jeff ]
Re: floorplate for toploader [BDIJXS aol.com]
Test Drive [Brian ]
Re: Motor Mounts [GMPACHECO aol.com]
Re: Test Drive [marko ]
Re: 351M manifold [A64F100 aol.com]
Re: "Floating a Valve" [danadeb pacbell.net]
Re: Married transfer cases [Don Grossman ]
Re: Test Drive [danadeb pacbell.net]
Horror Story on my 351M [Bzysignl aol.com]
ADMIN: Need digests 30 & 33 [Ken Payne ]
Re: Horror Story on my 351M [marko ]
Re: 390 or 460? [Jeff Larson ]
Re: Test Drive [ECampb5214 aol.com]
Re: "Floating a Valve" [George Herpich ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:53:30 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: Carb Size?

no, it is for any engine, including electric motors and 2-strokes, or even
a hand cranked pully. anything with a rotational torque and an rotational
speed.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Kurt Albershardt[SMTP:kurt nv.net]
Sent: Friday, February 06, 1998 3:02 PM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Re: Carb Size?

At 06:33 PM 2/2/98 EST, SARHOG aol.com wrote:
>
>Horsepower and torque curves cross (therefore, they are the same) at
5252rpm.
>Anything below that, torque is greater than horsepower.
>

Is this specific to an 8-cylinder engine? If so, what would the numbers
for a 6 be?

Thx...










+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| List removal information is on the web site. |
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 16:18:50 -0500
From: George Herpich
Subject: Re: 390 or 460?

I would go for the 390. 410 pistons are hard to find and, I believe,
only available in custom forged. 390 pistons with a 428/410 crank will
poke up out of the block as all FE's,390 and up, use the same rod
length. Bore for the 390 is 4.050 and 4.130 for the 428. You'd strike
water long before you reached that size. Max is .060 with .030
preferred.
The only difference between your 360 heads and 390 heads would possibly
be the combustion chamber volume. Valves and ports are the same.
The 280 .050 cam from the earlier post would be very radical for any
street car let alone a heavey truck. 220 .050 would be about max with a
fairly wide lobe separation. A nice combo for lots of low end torque
would be the Edlebrook performer cam and manifold. Their carbs work real
nice with this setup. Either the 600 or 750. Add headers and you'll have
plenty of power.

George
>
> There was another guy on the list who did what I am doing, and runs a 410 in
> his f250. A Ford Performance book I have sez the 410 makes 444 pounds of
> torque, at 2300 and 330 hp at 5000 or so. That is a huge amount of torque.
> Azie told me also to go for the 410, when I was humming and haw-ing about
> whether or not to go for it.
>
> Of course the build takes a bit of work. You need the crank, the pulley, a
> flywheel (more on that in a later post) but you can use new 390 pistons and
> the valvetrain is all the same. Your existing exhaust setup, bellhousing,
> tin (pan, valve covers), front cover and distributor etc will all bolt right
> up.
>
> But if you were to build something, why not the 410? Or, if your block can
> stand the bore (depends) you could do a full-blown 428.
>
> marko

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 12:02:23 -0800
From: Kurt Albershardt
Subject: Re: Carb Size?

At 06:33 PM 2/2/98 EST, SARHOG aol.com wrote:
>
>Horsepower and torque curves cross (therefore, they are the same) at 5252rpm.
>Anything below that, torque is greater than horsepower.
>

Is this specific to an 8-cylinder engine? If so, what would the numbers
for a 6 be?

Thx...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:25:47 -0500
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: Spring swap

Joe writes: >>With spring approaching, I getting my apples in a row..
I'm swapping my 302 to a 390 wat coil springs should I use???I assume
the 302's wont hold the extra 150+ pounds can i use the ones
from a 76-79 F-150 that i got the dana 44 from??I swapping to discs
at the same time the truck that i got the dana44 from had a 400 in it.
Also can i use F-250 rear springs in my f-100???74 is the f250 year?

What year truck you working on??? 2wd or 4X4???? The coils from
the 400 engine donor truck should be sufficient. Also the F250 springs
should bolt in down to about '67, and possibly down
to '63. Measure the width of the springs of each truck, and the
distance from front hanger to rear hanger on each truck. If they are
the same, then you can use them. When changing around rear springs, be
sure to tighten the U-bolts tight enough, and if you don't use NEW
nuts, then you need to 'Bugger' the threads slightly at the top of the
nuts to keep them from vibrating loose. This is important.

Azie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:37:22 -0500
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: 302

>>And the 302 is really only...

4.949197 liters. Ch**by's 305 is closer to 5.0 liters than anything
built in the USA.

Azie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:45:14 -0500
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: Lost Digest

Yo Ken!!!!!! I didn't get digest #74!!!!! could you retransmit it to
me???? Please????

Azie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 13:56:04 -0800
From: "Admiral J.R.E. Mc Kenzie"
Subject: Parts Location Request " Tilt Steering Wheel Required "

Hello everyone ( all of you Ford Guys too.... ):

It's me again " Lest B Pestor " ( but I'm the real Mc Coy though )?!!!

I'm searching for a tilt wheel assembly for the " El Ranchero " my
1975 Ranchero. I'm open as to color or perhaps the feature of cruise control
as my present cars wheel has that option ( cruise that is ), anyone know or
have one to vend to me? Yet another sorce perhaps is the Gran Torino would
also be suitable. Item two a shell or canopy is my next item, color is un
important as condition as well.

I quite often see requests here for 4 X 4 parts which is very common
up here ( in Canada ). I'm willing to forward whats up here ( should any of
these parts be required ( all most all oil field trucks here F250's & F350's
) are vend very reasonabliy too. I'd be willing to offer you guys help in
getting the at a " REDUCTION " of Fourty cents on your dollar! Please e mail
me if interested okay?

last but not least, I've assembled a source of parts locations
through out North America for automotivre dealerships ( light & heavy
applications ), any one have any questons as to the contents please contact
me at my e mail address okay.


Regards


John Mc Kenzie ( Ret. )

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 16:53:29 -0500
From: George Herpich
Subject: Re: 351M manifold

Dennis Pearson wrote:
>
> I have a friend who is looking for a 4 barrel manifold for a 351M. What
> will fit? Anyone have one?
>
> Dennis Pearson
> (too many Dennises)
> (too many Dennis Pearsons--see
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/9487/dlp.htm )
>
> 1962 Ford Unibody 351C
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+
He will have to go aftermarket for that one..........George

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 14:06:16 -0800
From: marko helix.net (marko maryniak)
Subject: Re: 390 or 460?

>I would go for the 390. 410 pistons are hard to find and, I believe,
>only available in custom forged. 390 pistons with a 428/410 crank will
>poke up out of the block as all FE's,390 and up, use the same rod
>length. Bore for the 390 is 4.050 and 4.130 for the 428. You'd strike
>water long before you reached that size. Max is .060 with .030
>preferred.
>The only difference between your 360 heads and 390 heads would possibly
>be the combustion chamber volume. Valves and ports are the same.
>The 280 .050 cam from the earlier post would be very radical for any
>street car let alone a heavey truck. 220 .050 would be about max with a
>fairly wide lobe separation. A nice combo for lots of low end torque
>would be the Edlebrook performer cam and manifold. Their carbs work real
>nice with this setup. Either the 600 or 750. Add headers and you'll have
>plenty of power.
>
>George

Hey George,

I went thru this very question with my engine builder before we got going on
the project. If you use stock-replacement 390 truck replacement pistons
(68-76 all I think is the listing) you end up with 0.010 clearance at tdc in
a 410 mercury. Or I wouldn't be building one. This is because stock
compression height of a 390 piston was actually less than that of a 410
piston. I don't have the book in front of me right now but I can post the #s
when I get home. And you can get these either in FedMogul or Silvolite,
hypereutetic.

I will get cam specs from the shop and post.


marko

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 17:59:05 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: Re: 67-72 Fender Liners/4 barrel FE's

Hey 67-72 guys,

I was at the junkyard today pulling parts off of a 77 F-150 4x4 and noticed
that the front fender liners were in good condition. Just out of curiosity, I
took them out and hung them under my 69 F-100 4x4, and they look like they fit
with very little modification. They're not a perfect fit since the wheel-well
profile is slightly different, but quite close.

I looked at the areas on the '77 behind where the liner was, and they were
totally clean. I picked them up for $20 total.

You guys with 67-72 rigs know that the front fenders just in front of the
doors and down low like to rust out....that little pocket gets filled with
stuff and the fender rusts from the inside out....not to mention the area
around the hood spring mounts. These liners should go a long way to cutting
down on this....

I'm assuming this will work on the 2x4 models as well....check it out!

The rear liners didn't look like they would work, but they are easier to make
than the front ones....I've also seen some advertized in JCW....I wonder if
they're any good or not?????

Another topic. While at the same junkyard, I came across a complete FE engine,
pretty rusty, with a 4-barrel manifold on it. Seemed interesting...wonder what
it could be??? One could always hope for a 428. My question is, what FE's came
stock with the 4-barrels besides 390's and 428's. I'm checking with Marko to
see if his 410 was a stock 4-barrel. I need some 390 rods anyway, maybe I
could pick up up for a dime or two....

This junkyard also has several 70's pickups, I saw several good doors and
fenders, not to mention trim.....If anyone is desperate, maybe I can check
something out for you....

Colorado Jeff


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 17:59:20 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: Re:Married transfer cases

Hey Azie,

I'm pretty sure that when you say "married" you mean the transfer case is
bolted directly to the transmission. If this is the case, FYI, my 69 F-100 4x4
is married...Don't know about any earlier than this though. I now have a 74'
transfer case in the truck....bolted right in....

Colorado Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 18:05:20 -0500
From: Jeff
Subject: Re: "Floating a Valve"

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Keith Srb wrote:

> I have heard people saying this from time to time inn the past and never really stopped long enough to find out what "floating a valve" really is. So what is happening when you float a valve.
>

Hi Keith,

Basically, "floating the valves" is the point at which the PRM's are so high that the valve
spring never gets the chance to close the valve before the cam lobe comes by and opens
the valve again. Hence, the valve "floats", a rather undesirable condition, needless to say...

Hope this helps.

Jeff



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 18:38:51 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: Re: floorplate for toploader

Hey Dennis,

I remembered your question from the other day while I was at the junkyard
today, and there one was, a floorplate for the toploader. However, if I
remember correctly, it was for a 4x4, meaning it had an extra hole for the
transfer case shifter as well...I can do a double check if you're unable to
find one....it was unbolted and everything...

Colorado Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 19:23:27 -0500
From: Brian
Subject: Test Drive

Well at about 5:30 pm tonight I finally got all things together. And I
went for the first trip in the '64 with the new 460. What a RIDE !!!
It is not timed yet (since my son has light) but timed enough by ear to
run shall we say..."Quick" But the steering (stock manual) is a liitle
bit scary, tends to wander quite a bit, so I only went to about 60mph.
But I was quite surprised that I couldn't keep from breaking the tires
loose, And to here a little rubber squeal when its only about 30 degrees
outside was strange!!
Still a few bugs to work out with the wiring for lights and stuff, but
at least I got to drive it down the road. Did turn a few heads too !
makes the last 4 months of work worth the effort...and all the cuts and
bruises heal quicker.

Brian

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 20:51:09 EST
From: GMPACHECO aol.com
Subject: Re: Motor Mounts

I have a picture of these mounts if you need to see what it looks like.

Mike in Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 20:15:05 -0800
From: marko
Subject: Re: Test Drive

At 07:23 PM 2/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!



>
> Brian
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
>| List removal information is on the web site. |
>+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+


marko in vancouver

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:33:57 EST
From: A64F100 aol.com
Subject: Re: 351M manifold

In a message dated 98-02-06 16:06:43 EST, you write:


I have a friend who is looking for a 4 barrel manifold for a 351M. What
will fit? Anyone have one?
>>

I got an edelbrock performer 400 for my 400, it also fits 351m, It's a good
manifold, and as luck would have it, I lucked out. I went in to the racing
shop to see about buying one, and the guy behind the counter told me a brand
new one was given to him, and he didn't need it so I got it for $50. But the
brand new ones are about $150

later,
Scott L

*Keep It Ford Blue*

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 19:34:06 -0800
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: "Floating a Valve"

I probably "floated the valves" once. I had only had my new truck for a month or
so. I did not have a kick down lever, but I was used to that. I got on the
freeway doing about 60 when I "needed" to accelerate alot! My old trucks kick
down lever was non existent and if you down shifted to any gear it would only go
one gear down till the speed was lower, so I used to through the automatic's
shifter into low when I wanted a boost!( takes too long to find second ) Well I
sure was in the habit of doing it and when I did on my new truck I found out
that a C6 CAN go into first at 60 MPH ( about 6500 rpm in first gear, by my
calculations ) After a big puff of smoke, one heck of a loud noise and some
deceleration, I up shifted. Scared the #$% out of me! Don't know if it did any
harm, it still runs the same 4 years later.

The following weekend I installed a kick down lever in my new truck.

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 19:54:57 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: Married transfer cases

BDIJXS aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey Azie,
>
> I'm pretty sure that when you say "married" you mean the transfer case is
> bolted directly to the transmission. If this is the case, FYI, my 69 F-100 4x4
> is married...Don't know about any earlier than this though. I now have a 74'
> transfer case in the truck....bolted right in....
>
> Colorado Jeff

Starting with the 65production year Ford switched to the "married" case
in the F-100's
- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net


63 Ford F-100 4x4 67' 390, t-98, Spicer 24, Dana 60, Dana 44, power
steering, power brakes, and now ON BOARD AIR!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 19:48:44 -0800
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Test Drive

Brian,
I know the feeling well. My first engine swap was a 289 in a 63 econoline van (
did someone say fun!) Bad thing for me I forgot the put the through bolts in
the engine mounts and the first peddle to the floor sent the fan blade through
the brand new custom radiator. OUCH!!!

the radiator shop felt so sorry for me they replaced the core at cost and didn't
charge me labor!

Again, have fun with your new truck.

Dana

P.S. was the first test run with mufflers or not?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 23:06:50 EST
From: Bzysignl aol.com
Subject: Horror Story on my 351M

Well I just finished up the 351 head gasket job. You may remember I had the
head gasket problem? Well, that's what I and all my buddies here in diego
seemed to think it was anyway.

I fired it up, and looks like there's still H2o where no H2o should ever go.
The oil
breather cap drips water when I remove it. Water. Like the water coming from
my eyes. The cooling system is pumping up like crazy too. Pressurizing.

The real butt-burner is how nice the motor runs now. You may recall how
my timing chain was so worn that it seemed like it could come off w/o removing
the sprockets? Couple that with the fact my intake valves were so jammed up
with toe jam that I'm surprised it could run, and you get the picture. It revs
and idles at least, like a real V8. Too bad I'm not going to be able to drive
it.

Where is the water coming from? You may also remember that I never did see any
obvious sign of hd gasket problem once the heads were off?
Do I have a cracked block, or is there ANYTHING, PLEASE, ANYTHING, it might be
that I wouldn't have to tear everything apart again.
I'm looking at long blocks now. Thank the Lord I held off on buying the 460.
At this point, I'll have to use the cash for the long block.

Thanks to all and especially Tyler and Azie and you other guys who've helped
in this crazy project. I haven't given up yet, but I'm hanging by a thread.
This one is hard to swallow.
Gregg

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 23:25:08 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: Need digests 30 & 33

I was just compiling the January archives and found out I've
lost digests 30 & 33. If anyone has them available I would
appreciate it if you could email them to me.

Thanks,
Ken

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 21:30:27 -0800
From: marko
Subject: Re: Horror Story on my 351M

At 11:06 PM 2/6/98 EST, you wrote:
>Well I just finished up the 351 head gasket job. You may remember I had the
>head gasket problem? Well, that's what I and all my buddies here in diego
>seemed to think it was anyway.
>
>I fired it up, and looks like there's still H2o where no H2o should ever go.
>The oil
>breather cap drips water when I remove it. Water. Like the water coming from
>my eyes. The cooling system is pumping up like crazy too. Pressurizing.
>
>The real butt-burner is how nice the motor runs now. You may recall how
>my timing chain was so worn that it seemed like it could come off w/o removing
>the sprockets? Couple that with the fact my intake valves were so jammed up
>with toe jam that I'm surprised it could run, and you get the picture. It revs
>and idles at least, like a real V8. Too bad I'm not going to be able to drive
>it.
>
>Where is the water coming from? You may also remember that I never did see any
>obvious sign of hd gasket problem once the heads were off?
>Do I have a cracked block, or is there ANYTHING, PLEASE, ANYTHING, it might be
>that I wouldn't have to tear everything apart again.
>I'm looking at long blocks now. Thank the Lord I held off on buying the 460.
>At this point, I'll have to use the cash for the long block.
>
>Thanks to all and especially Tyler and Azie and you other guys who've helped
>in this crazy project. I haven't given up yet, but I'm hanging by a thread.
>This one is hard to swallow.
>Gregg

Geez Gregg, I don't know what to say, except that I had that problem once
with a 350 somthingorother which, as it turned out, had a cracked head.

Is the water problem any different now? If so, it might be the alignment of
the intake manifold gasket. Or, the intake manifold could be cracked.

If the head gaskets are okay, and looked okay before, then I'd say maybe it
was a head or an intake problem.

Wish I could say "well just advance the timing a bit and it'll all be ok"
but I don't think so.

marko in vancouver
marko helix.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 21:27:20 -0800
From: Jeff Larson
Subject: Re: 390 or 460?

John Pajak wrote:
>
> Alright folks, help me out! Should I convert my 360 to a 390 or
> go through all the pain and heartache of finding a 460/C6 and all the
> mounts, manifolds, etc to make the conversion? I realize the 460 has
> more ultimate potential but I don't need a race truck :) ....But, how
> well does a mild 390 4V run in a truck? I have 3.50 gears in there
> now...and a 2.75 9" pumpkin in stock. I tow 5500 lbs of car trailer
> and race car occasionally. The current 360 has virtually no
> ooomph...thanks to the previous owner who installed a big cam :( And,
> he also put on a Performer intake and Holley 750. I do have a 600
> Holley in stock also though....
>
> ===
> John Pajak JSPajak rocketmail.com
> Lexington Park, Maryland http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.tripod.com/~JSPajak
>
> 75 F100




John

First is this a 4x4 truck? If it is, don't put the 460 in it. It's
nice but it'll cost ya. I did it but wouldn't do it again. I suggest
building up a 390 on the side and dropping it in, especially if you
decide to try and use headers. If you do decide to do it then here is
how I did it. First get a 460. I got one out of a Lincoln with 30K on it
for $150. That was a good deal. You will also need to get the 460
motor mounts. They cost about $200 new so get used. I then got motor
mount adaptors from "Hooker Header", they attach the the frame with the
correct offset for the engine. The 460 motor mounts, mount to the
Hooker adapters and then engine should bolt right in. For the
transmission, I found a transmission shop that had a spare transmission
case that fits 460, they took the guts out of my transmission and put
them in the 460 case along with a shift kit. This cost me $300 bucks,
or you could just get a transmssion that fits 460. After this
everything went fine.

Jeff Larson jlarson ix.netcom.com
78 F150 4x4 351M (I miss my other truck 75 F100 460)

> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 01:10:20 EST
From: ECampb5214 aol.com
Subject: Re: Test Drive

Yet another success story congrates!!

Now my 360 well break them loose with the best of 'em. Cause of some long
past due brake work i only have front brakes. So i sit on that and squeze the....


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