fordtrucks61-79-digest Saturday, May 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 240



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979
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In this issue:

Re: SB Heads [George Herpich ]
Re: 351 W heads [George Herpich ]
Synthetic Oil [BDIJXS ]
bleeding brakes.... [BDIJXS ]
Pigeon Forge ["Melayne Arnold" ]
RE: Synthetic Oil ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: SOLENOID ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Reviving a poorly stored engine ["John F. Bauer III"
Bowed tailgates ["John LaGrone" ]
Re: Paint&Body [Stu Varner ]
Re: Reviving a poorly stored engine ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Pigeon Forge [Stu Varner ]
Re: SOLENOID [ "SGT WILLIAM A WHITED"]
ADMIN: List downtime scheduled [Ken Payne ]
Re: Paint&Body [Stu Varner ]
Re: Reviving a poorly stored engine [Dan Koster ]
Re: Reviving a poorly stored engine [sdelanty sonic.net]
RE: Reviving a poorly stored engine [Sleddog ]
Re: Reviving a poorly stored engine ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: [Stu Varner ]
4x4 hubs [BDIJXS ]
headers ["Tim Baker" ]
body parts [TOYAC ]
78-F250 conversion ["Richard Baldwin" ]
External Hubs ["Dave Walbeck" ]

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Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 07:20:14 -0400
From: George Herpich
Subject: Re: SB Heads

I think it was '77 when they went to the present rocker arm arrangement.
Other than that there is no big difference. The only real advantage would be
that you could use stuff like the cobra roller rockers.
Earlier (pre '77 I think) 351 heads have 1.84 intake and, I think, 1.54
exhaust valves but you could put these in your heads and with a little
porting they'd outflow stock 351s.
Your heads should have hardened seats as that is the year cats became
standard.
George

Leonard Stampfly wrote:

> Need some information. Are late model 302 and 351 heads the same? Does
> this include the 302 H.O. heads? I need an inexpensive bolt-on
> improvement for my 75 302.
>
> Leo
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Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 07:26:59 -0400
From: George Herpich
Subject: Re: 351 W heads

JK, The June Mustang Monthly has an article on porting sb heads. It's not as
good as the SF one I mentioned but it will give you an idea of what's going on
and some pictures. Basically what I was saying but they say "pocket" where I
said "bowl".
George.

John Kosche wrote:

>
>
> Can someone give me a dimes worth of information on a quick and dirty port
> job on a pair of (' 89) 351 heads... Just went thru the engine and thought
> I'd clean up the heads a little.. Any secrets?
>
> jk
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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:36:57 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: Synthetic Oil

Hey Drew,

Like I said, the synthetic has run real good for me. You might just run
regular oil for the first 3000 miles or so to help let everything break in OK.
I think this especially important if you install new rings/pistons etc. I'm
not sure if putting synthetic in right away will allow the engine to break in
properly...

Good luck,

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:37:02 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: bleeding brakes....

Hey Jesus,

You should start at the wheel furthest from the brake reservoir and work your
way closer.....passenger rear first, driver rear second, passenger front
third, and driver front last....

I also have not had much luck with Obsolete, seems like they have what I need
about 1 in 4 times....have you tried some of the other old Ford truck parts
houses? You should be able to find a bunch in any of the truck magazines...

Good luck!

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:04:10 -0400
From: "Melayne Arnold"
Subject: Pigeon Forge

Need some information on Pigeon Forge from someone who's been there a couple
of times. Don't want to take up list space so e-mail me direct. Thanks.


Stoney


83 F-250, 460,C-6
79 F-250, 429,435
76 F-100, 302,3-on-the-tree
70 F-100, 390, who knows?
73 Mustang, 351-C, Looking for top-loader
84 Gran Prix (swmbo)

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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:11:38 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: Synthetic Oil

> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:07:27 -0400
> From: DC Beatty
> Subject: RE: Synthetic Oil

> All this talk about synthetics has me wondering. In a few weeks I'll
> be dropping in the 390 I got for my truck. I resealed the whole
> motor, and put new rod and main bearings in it. I did nothing to the
> rings or heads, as the compression seemed real good and there was no
> oil fouling on the plugs. Do you guys think going to a synthetic oil
> would be a good idea in this situation?

In a discussion with Amsoil Tech I asked a similar question and he
said as long as the engine isn't leaking now it should be ok. He
also said the solvent properties of the oil will clean up the rings
to some extent and may even help them seal better. The flash point
and molecular shear properties of the oil make it hold up better
where there is some blow by also.

Since you put in new bearings I'd try Mobil 1 in 10w30 first and see
how it runs. If oil pressure is an issue try 10W40 but with new
bearings the 10W30 should work well. Amsoil has one they call 0W30
with a very high VI which means it virtually stays the same flow rate
through a large temp range. It's still a 30 wt oil but acts like 0
wt when cold so you get better starts, better initial lube etc..
Mobil 1 and Redline do the same thing pretty much so just get which
one is easiest to get (Amsoil and Redline are similar in cost, about
double Mobil 1 cost)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:20:39 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: SOLENOID

> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 98 19:03:16 -0400
> From: "SGT WILLIAM A WHITED"
> Subject: SOLENOID

> doesn't go it enough detail the solenoid I have is F496 and has 4
> posts the 2 main and 2 little ones I and S. Any info I can get is
> appreciated. Thanks. Tony

It sounds like you have a dead short in the starter to me but may not
be reading your picture right? The "I" terminal goes to the 12v
input to the ignition and is bussed (I believe) internally to the "S"
terminal so when you hit the ignition switch 12v goes out the "I"
terminal to the ignition and the start selenoid is energized at the
same time. I don't think it matters which wire goes to which
terminal but not sure about that. I do know that if voltage is
reversed through a shorted ignition it will energize the start relay
so it shouldn't matter but I could be wrong :-)

Do the battery cables jump when you hit the ignition switch to start?
The connections need to be really clean on all the high amperage
connections including the battery posts, engine block (ground) and
starter lug as well as both sides of the relay. I also put silicone
grease on all my electrical connections.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 10:24:48 -0400
From: "John F. Bauer III"
Subject: Reviving a poorly stored engine

Group:

I pulled a '78 300-I6 out of an old van about 2 years ago, plopped the
engine down as is in the back of my garage and have ignored it until now.
I would like to drop this engine into another van.

The question I have is, are there any tips or suggestions on what I should
do with the engine, as far as preparing, before I just drop it in and fire
it up? When I scrounge up the $$$ (just never seem to have enough), I
would like to either have the engine rebuilt or purchase one of those
re-manufactured engines and swap in the missing parts. Should I just wait
and go for the rebuild to avoid causing some sort of major engine damage
since it has been sitting for two years?

John "trying to not look too inexperienced in front of the masters ..."



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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:32:27 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: Bowed tailgates

I forgot who said that it looked like someone dropped a tree on their
tailgate. 99% of tailgate bashes like that occur from backing into the tree
(or post) while the tailgate is down. The reason I pass this along is so
those of you that get new ones don't bash 'em right up (in?) again. I never
hit a tree with mine, but I did take out a grille and radiator on a
Maverick behind me in a parking lot once. I couldn't see out of the rear
glass and was using mirrors only. Didn't hurt my tailgate. No I didn't
leave, the guy was in the car. My fellow teachers wanted to paint little
Mavericks on my door panels. SWMBO never lets me forget.


- -John

jmlagron tenet.edu
1979 F150 Custom 351M C6
1988 Towncar 5.0 EFI AOD
1979 MC (my son is rebellious)

Dearborn iron rules!!!!!!


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Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 09:42:17 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: Paint&Body

>
>> Been there...years ago. I don't know how soft your truck rides, but
>> if it's like mine (stiff!!) Don'T drive it home after the "plumbing
>> job."
>
>There wasn't a chair soft enough in my house after mine......one week
>of agony but well worth it IMHO :-) Last kid, 1975 :-)

Thanks for the advice!!

Does anyone have the digests from yesterday from about 8 am central time to
10 am central this morning. The state of tenn server has been down and I
have missed all the mail from yesterdy on. I missed something with this
message about the plumbing job...
I am making the assumption you are talking about my anatamical plumbing?! :)

I will be riding with momma in her soft ridin buggy. My pickem up is dismantled
to the last nut and bolt as we speak. Good thing too, I'd hate having her
torture me with a ride home in it.
She would do it for grins!

Stu
Nuke GM!

I just don't want the doc that took care of deacon's surgery, I heard he
wasn't too gentle! That ain't no fun!! I still feel for you Deacon!


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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:45:43 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Reviving a poorly stored engine

> Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 10:24:48 -0400
> From: "John F. Bauer III"
> Subject: Reviving a poorly stored engine

> I pulled a '78 300-I6 out of an old van about 2 years ago, plopped
> the engine down as is in the back of my garage and have ignored it
> until now. I would like to drop this engine into another van.
>
> Should I just wait and go for the rebuild to avoid
> causing some sort of major engine damage since it has been sitting
> for two years?

Prop it up and drain the oil watching for any water at the bottom
when you first pull the plug. If there's no water in the oil, I'd
just run it. I ran an old 330 truck engine that sat in a field for 4
years. All I did was change the oil and start it up and drive it.
Ran real nice :-)

If there's water in the oil there may be pitting and other damage so
then it's iffy. I also had a 352 that filled completely full of
water every winter and it only got run occasionally. Every spring I
had to drain the oil and change it and roughly a gallon of water came
out first. That motor still ran when I scrapped the truck and I had
it for many years. I remember at least three seasons I had to do
this and never did figure out where it came from (not coolant) :-)


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 10:13:02 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: Pigeon Forge

At 10:04 AM 5/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Need some information on Pigeon Forge from someone who's been there a couple
>of times. Don't want to take up list space so e-mail me direct. Thanks.
>
Feel free to reply privaetly to me too. I have never been there and need
some advice on the do's and don'ts of East Tennessee. Where to park, where
not to park, etc. all the things to make the trip more enjoyable.


I am still compiling a list of travelers to Pigeon Froge so send me private
email and I will post a list one or 2 days next week of the potential attendees.

Stu
Nuke GM!

Visit my homepage at www.pscico.com/stu

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Date: Fri, 1 May 98 10:52:35 -0400
From: "SGT WILLIAM A WHITED"
Subject: Re: SOLENOID

Thanks, for all the input I got. I replaced the starter, the old
one was bad, recharged the battery, and replaced the solenoid. When I
replaced the solenoid the last time I had the 2 little wires on the wrong
posts I and S so when I put the new one on it did the same thing, switched
the wires from I to S and S to I and she fired up great and even when she's
hot she fires up. Thanks alot for all the input. Tony

74 F100 RANGER SUPER CAB 390
- -------------
Original Text
From "Gary, 78 BBB" , on 5/1/98 6:20 AM:
To: SMTP3 SMTP3 MCB LEJEUNE[]

> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 98 19:03:16 -0400
> From: "SGT WILLIAM A WHITED"
> Subject: SOLENOID

> doesn't go it enough detail the solenoid I have is F496 and has 4
> posts the 2 main and 2 little ones I and S. Any info I can get is
> appreciated. Thanks. Tony

It sounds like you have a dead short in the starter to me but may not
be reading your picture right? The "I" terminal goes to the 12v
input to the ignition and is bussed (I believe) internally to the "S"
terminal so when you hit the ignition switch 12v goes out the "I"
terminal to the ignition and the start selenoid is energized at the
same time. I don't think it matters which wire goes to which
terminal but not sure about that. I do know that if voltage is
reversed through a shorted ignition it will energize the start relay
so it shouldn't matter but I could be wrong :-)

Do the battery cables jump when you hit the ignition switch to start?
The connections need to be really clean on all the high amperage
connections including the battery posts, engine block (ground) and
starter lug as well as both sides of the relay. I also put silicone
grease on all my electrical connections.

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 11:24:52 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: List downtime scheduled

Saturday night at 8:00pm EST the lists will go down for the switch
to the new list server. All posts to the old lists after this time
will disappear into the bit bucket without a trace. Emails such
as "why aren't my posts getting through" and "why is the list dead"
will be ignored - take this as Fair Warning (Lord, strike that
poor boy down.... sorry Deacon, couldn't resist).

The switch should take a couple of hours but don't count on it.
Once the switch takes place, an email will be sent to all list
members containing subscribe, unsubscribe and posting
instructions. After receiving this email you'll be able to
post.

Subscribe requests to the old server will simply result in an
email containing new subscribe instructions. The web site
and FAQ will be updated to reflect the server change.

Also, no posts prior to downtime will get lost. I'll be
forcing a digest to go out to digest members about 5 minutes
before the shutdown so everyone will get their FTE fix.

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com




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Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 11:19:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re: Paint&Body

>>I ain't gettin no stinkin Cobra
>
>Liar liar pants on fire. If you do move up to Jr. High School, be
>careful. I've seen on the news they carry guns! :[
>

Being the redneck I am/was when I was a kid, we all carried our shotguns and
deer rifles to school in the back windows of our ford trucks....nobody ever
said a word. That was a different day and time. heck we didn't know it
was illegal!! Just never thought about it I guess!


>
>I'll be more than happy to do it for you. I know the procedure inside
>and out. Trust me, I won't feel a thing!
I have castrated several bulls and pigs in my life. I am sure I could do it
to myself, I just hate the idea of someone messin with my boyz!

I even know where there's a
>vacant Dr. office where I can do it. Everything will be just fine. After
>I finish, you won't even be able to fertilize your grass! ;]

My grass is gone and is now mud...trees cut down and trachoe in
yard.......need to plant new grass seed!! Who needs fertilizer now anyway?
>
>>You guys would throw me off the list If I showed up in a new Snake!!
>Even
>>if it is made by Henry's boys! No carb, no list!!
>
> Cheeses, I hope that's not true. A friend of mine is upgrading his
>Stang's EFI with a Cobra and is giving me his upper and lower intake to
>put on my truck. I wouldn't want to be kicked off the list for it!
>

Deacon, Why would I want to kick you off the list, you are patient and
understanding and lovable and respected by me. After all, you are my mentor!

I think the idea of a late model running gear with EFI in a 60's pickemup
truck would be cool. all you got to do is drive it tyour local dealer and
let him do the work.
Atleast the diagnostics!

> Now that I let that cat out of the bag, I would like to get some
>input on doing this. Anyone know all the parts I'll need to get from the
>junkyard? I'm thinking I'll need an EEC, harness and injectors. Anything
>else? Bring it on boyz. The good, bad and the ugly.

Me ugly, me know nuthin bout efi!


Stu
homepage www.pscico.com/stu
>=============================
>Nuke the unborn baby whales.
AND GM TOO! You'll see nice nuclear mushrooms at the bottom of my homepage!!
>=============================

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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Koster
Subject: Re: Reviving a poorly stored engine

- ---"John F. Bauer III" wrote:

> I pulled a '78 300-I6 out of an old van about 2 years ago, plopped
> the engine down as is in the back of my garage and have ignored it
> until now.
> I would like to drop this engine into another van.
> The question I have is, are there any tips or suggestions on what I
> should do with the engine, as far as preparing, before I just drop
> it in and fire it up? When I scrounge up the $$$ (just never seem
> to have enough), I would like to either have the engine rebuilt or
> purchase one of those re-manufactured engines and swap in the
> missing parts. Should I just wait and go for the rebuild to avoid
> causing some sort of major engine damage since it has been sitting
> for two years?

John,

First off, we're assuming that you haven't taken the engine apart. If
it is torn down, I'd suggest springing a few Jeffersons to get it
hot-tanked.

Second, I'd be real leary of just draining water out of the engine
chambers. If you're from the south, like me, humidity fluctuations
could easily have pitted the inside in places you'll never get to.

IMHO, you've got two options:

1 - you just want to suck the last bit of life out of this engine, so
you throw it in and rev it up - risky but cheap.
2 - you really want to make this engine last, so you wait till you've
got the cash, get it hot tanked, rebuilt, etc.
- patience tester, expensive, conservative.

Where do you fit in?

Personally, I have four months into the rebuild I'm doing and plan on
continuing for another 5 months before I put it into my truck. If I'm
going to pay all that money for a rebuild, I want the engine to last.

My suggestion would be to wait.
Reasons:
- you can tear it apart yourself until you get the cash.
(which will at least make you more familiar with your engine.)
- since we don't know what condition the engine was in before you
took it out, there could have been pre-existing problems that
have been worsened since the engine was stored.
- You said that you just put it up in the garage. Even a properly
stored vehicle should be started and ran 3-4 times a year.
Imagine all the fluids, parts, etc. that have settled. 2 years
isn't that long, but why risk it?
- If you're going to rebuild it anyway, it's possible that it may
only need to be cleaned and honed, and running it dry...

I could go on all day.

If there's one thing I believe in, it's a good days work for a good
day's pay. You're engine has worked plenty, give it a break.



> John "trying to not look too inexperienced in front of the
> masters ..."

Join the crowd. We all don't know nuthin', we just like to type.


Dan


p.s. if you're married... start taking the engine apart and locating
the parts all over the house - you'll be surprised how quickly you
suddenly have enough money to put it back together!
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:56:18 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: Reviving a poorly stored engine

>The question I have is, are there any tips or suggestions on what I should
>do with the engine, as far as preparing, before I just drop it in and fire
>it up? When I scrounge up the $$$ (just never seem to have enough), I
>would like to either have the engine rebuilt or purchase one of those
>re-manufactured engines and swap in the missing parts. Should I just wait
>and go for the rebuild to avoid causing some sort of major engine damage
>since it has been sitting for two years?

My technique for starting a motor that's been sitting a couple years
usually goes kinda like this:

Change oil and filter.

Change points (if applicable)

Remove spark plugs and put a tablespoonfull of light oil in the cylinders.
I usually use marvel mystery oil for this. It's a good light oil and has
wonderfull solvent properties to help free gummed up rings.

Remove valve cover(s) and pour motor oil all over the rockers and top end
stuff.

Remove distributor and prime the oiling system with a suitable
"oil pump spinning tool". Put distributor back in.

Turn engine over by hand to distribute oil and make sure everything
turns free.

Put the spark plugs back in, say a short prayer to Your Diety of choice
and crank it over.

The fuel system may need attention too... Is there stale gas in the
tank? Varnish and gum from evaporated gas in the carb?

After it starts and has run for 20-30 minutes I usually shut it
down and change the oil and filter again...

Good luck!

Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty/

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
-- Hunter S. Thompson

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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:23:52 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: Reviving a poorly stored engine

or how quickly your wife takes all your money, kids, house, truck, dog, computer,......

;-)

- ----------
From: Dan Koster[SMTP:rumpus1 yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, May 01, 1998 5:38 AM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Re: Reviving a poorly stored engine

snipped---

Dan

p.s. if you're married... start taking the engine apart and locating
the parts all over the house - you'll be surprised how quickly you
suddenly have enough money to put it back together!




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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:29:01 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Reviving a poorly stored engine

> From: sdelanty sonic.net
> Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:56:18 -0700
> Subject: Re: Reviving a poorly stored engine

> My technique for starting a motor that's been sitting a couple
> years usually goes kinda like this:
>
> Change oil and filter.

- -- Snip --

Good process Steve. I'm usually just too lazy to go to all that
trouble :-) Actually I've done parts of this many times myself but
the 352 just got new oil and a start at least 3 seasons in a row.


78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --
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Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 14:13:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Stu Varner
Subject: Re:

At 01:19 PM 4/30/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Jake in BC.
>The fishing line trick is this as I know it...
>
>Install the trim in the rubber. Put the rubber onto your new glass. Put
>a small bead of dish soap, about 1/4 inch all the way around the rubber
>where it fits into the window frame. Wrap a very strong piece of fishing
>line, or very strong rope, cord etc into the same groove as the soap.

They did this on my classic car (TNN) with a Mustang a few weeks ago.
Thought it was a great way to put a windshiled in and get it right. Look
for reruns or go to

www.myclassiccar.com

for technical resto tips.

\Stu
Nuke GM!
visit my homepage at:
www.pscico.com/stu

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:22:27 EDT
From: BDIJXS
Subject: 4x4 hubs

Hey Mike,

I checked out your picture of the 4x4 hubs, and the big ones on the left are
the external type....let me know if you run across any spares of this type,
I'll be interested in getting them!

Colorado Jeff
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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:55:03 +0100
From: "Tim Baker"
Subject: headers

I have a 56 f100 that I have finally got off the blocks and very soon will
be running. I am trying to find a decent set of headers for it and do not
have the cash to spend on custom setups. Does anybody know a part # or
manufacturer that has headers for a 351w in a 56 f`100 w/c6. Your help
would be might appreciated.
Thanks to all who can help
tim

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Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 20:35:32 -0400
From: TOYAC
Subject: body parts

Looking for short bed for '79 F150, and any other information regarding
sheet metal for same truck.
Any help would be appreciated.
Send replies to Jeff at toyac prodigy.net
+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:42:22 -0700
From: "Richard Baldwin"
Subject: 78-F250 conversion

I want to convert my 2 wheel drive F-250 to a 4 wheel drive... If any one has done
this I could use some does and dont's to this matter...Any help will be greatly appreciated.......


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