fordtrucks61-79-digest Thursday, April 16 1998 Volume 02 : Number 218
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
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In this issue:
Re: timing problems v2 #214 [George Herpich ]
hoist wheels [jniolon uss.com]
Re: Power steering gearbox ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Engine hoists,barns and pickups... and age [jniolon uss.com]
Re: humidity & engine behavior problems ["Gary, 78 BBB"
Re: Difference between a F-100 and F-150 ["Gary, 78 BBB"
Battery size [John Strauss ]
Re: '64 F100 for sale [bobherring juno.com]
Re: 2 into 1 ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: hoist wheels ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Engine hoists,barns and pickups... and age ["Gary, 78 BBB"
Pwr Steering whine [am14 chrysler.com]
Re: Opinions ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Stalls out in Humidity [am14 chrysler.com]
Re: New member - helping nephew with 61 ["Gary, 78 BBB"
RE: 2 into 1 ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Pwr Steering whine [Tony Marino ]
re:dreaming/b...sing/460's [Bruce Hart ]
RE: 2 into 1 [Sleddog ]
RE: nice blown I-6 [Sleddog ]
Re: Pwr Steering whine [John MacNamara ]
Re: humidity & engine behavior problems [Ractrk002 ]
Re: Difference between a F-100 and F-150 [Ractrk002 ]
Manuals, Parts, etc. ["Bill Beacon" ]
Re: re:dreaming/b...sing/460's ["Deacon" ]
That wouldn't affect the timing marks, it would just keep you from getting
to the one you want.
J.Scott Harkema wrote:
> Sounds to me like the distribitor is off by
> one tooth. Try pulling the distribitor out and
> reinstalling.Verify proper installation by
> lining up TDC (or O ) mark on dampener with
> pointer and then make sure rotor is pointing
> at No.1 on dist. cap
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I'm interested in your arrangement for "yard hoist". I had the same
problem moving a big ole Quincy compressor with a 80 gal tank from
inside the garage to outside...alone. Used the engine hoist to load
the compressor on the trailer...no problem..concrete floor.
Drove the trailer around back and got it as close as possible to
install site...soft dirt area... Then drug, pushed, cussed, kicked
the engine hoist across the yard and finally kicked, pushed, pryed,
cried and managed to get it under trailer and hooked up compressor.
The hoist immediately sank 4 inches into soft ground. It's where it
should be now but the little cast iron wheels didn't help the process
at all. Details please... my engine hoist could do a lot of "yard
jobs" , like moving heavy old **Ford** (content)parts around, if I
could just get it in the yard.
I'm also sure others could profit from your labors.
thanks, and you can email privately if you don't want to waste the
> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:27:38 -0400
> From: Tony Marino
> Subject: Power steering gearbox
> My 78's steering pump is whining. I just got done rebuilding this
> truck, and now when I turn, it sounds like I have a compressor under
This particular year (type) of pump seems to be hard to bleed. The
instructions that came with my rebuild suggested jacking up the front
end and manually turning the steering wheel slowly from lock to lock
with engine off to bleed the system. Mine is much quieter now since
I did that. You must do this slowly or you will force the fluid out
of the resivoir. My guess is that if you're not forcing fluid out
the cap you're probably in the required speed window :-)
> How does this set screw work internally? Aside from the obvious
The sector shaft "hangs" from the lug via a groove in the lug and
fork in the top of the sector. When you turn the screw in you allow
the sector to "fall" further into the rack both having tapered teeth
for this purpose. There is enough slack in the connection to allow
the sector to float up under heat expansion or heavy load so there
can be a small amount of backlash in the system for that purpose but
under normal conditions no backlash can be felt when it's adjusted
Based on this info you should be able to see that forcing the lug in
till it feels like it's bottoming is wrong. You should turn it in as
you rock the steering shaft back and forth to feel the free play
until the free play is gone and tighten the lock nut. At that point
there will still be clearance for the sector to ride up out of the
rack as needed but it will stay tight for normal driving etc..
Remembe this is not rack and pinion steering and there is no way to
get it absolutely tight and still have it work right. The older
systems like this need just a hair backlash (as described above) to
allow enough freedom for them to self center through the steering
> Now, if it's a dry day, even if it's real cold, the truck acts
> perfectly normal. It runs fine (as possible for the poor beast) and
> drives fine and doesn't stall out. However, if there is much
> humidity in the air it will idle pretty well for about ten minutes.
> Then the idle slowly decreases, gets rougher, and dies out. If I
> start it up again right away it runs like crap and dies. If I try to
ICE not moisture or water. Do you have manifold heat hooked up to
the air cleaner? On this old of a truck I suspect you have the oil
filled air cleaner with no snout or even a good way to attach one
right? Is the intake hot air cross over plugged? I never had much
trouble with my trucks except with my van which had a cold intake and
no hot air intake setup (and Holley carb, yuck!)
I'm guessing you need to get hot air into the intake somehow at idle
and cruise which means a vac operated valve like is on the mid 70's
trucks and cars. At the very least you need to get the carb warmed
up a bit with the manifold cross over.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:36:33 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Difference between a F-100 and F-150
> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:03:04 -0700
> From: Dennis Pearson
> Subject: Re: Difference between a F-100 and F-150
> Wasn't the 150 rated a 5/8 ton to be bigger than a 1/2 ton?
That's the way I understand it but the EPA stuff is probably what
promted the change. One of the reasons I like the 78 year is that it
just slipped past the emissions stuff. In 79 it got caught up in it
again. My 78 will haul 2 tons without bottoming the springs but, of
course, It has half the spring pak of a 75 E-150 tacked on to them
:-) Lets see F-250 = 3/4 ton so what's a F-150 with 2 ton capacity??
BTW, this isn't a guess, I hauled 1.95 tons of stone weighed at a
gravel pit on one load and 1.96 on the second load. When I find some
10 ply, 15" tires it will improve on that I'm sure :-)
>No, I think Jon is right, under the passenger side floor is correct. Yes a
>group 24 will fit in the space. On the larger trucks and 4x's up until 66
>the battery is under the floor. Everyone who looks under my hood does the
>"where's the battery" look, or looks at me strange when I give someone a jump
>and put my passenger door by the engine compartment. I plan on mounting 2
>batteries under the hood when I install my set of 65 inner fenders and adding
>a quick disconnect to the front bumper for the jumper cables.
Well, I don't think it's right to say I am INCORRECT since a) all he said
was 61-66 and b) I have a 61 and a 64 and they are both under the hood.
I'd venture to say there are WAY more of those model trucks with the
battery under the hood than under the floor. And I did guess the size
right on the floor box, too. :-)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:16:09 EDT
From: bobherring juno.com
Subject: Re: '64 F100 for sale
On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:14:45 EDT POLING4 writes:
>Do you have any extra chrome or parts for the 72 F-100 that you would
>like to sell?
>Interior or exterior parts.
I only have what's on the truck. Sorry.
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> Plus you have in the dual pipe setup whether or not you have a
> transfer tube (which I have heard helps alot). In this case by
> sharing part of two pipes, you in effect almost double the available
> area for the exhaust flow per cylinder, and create more scavenging.
> Also certain header designs are designed to scavenge, based upon on
> an exhaust pulse creating a vacuum effect for the next exhaust pulse
> to "follow".
The issue of the balance tube as I understand it is that the banks do
not fire exactly in succession so the pulse in either bank is not
evenly timed which messes up the resonance tuning and the
inertia flow etc.. A single exhaust reduces this problem but adds,
as you say, some restriction unless the pipes are sized to allow for
it. The balance tube also reduces the problem and by sizing the
tube correctly for the system you can regain almost all of the
resonance and inertia gains the headers give you. The formula that
sticks in my head is roughly 3/4 the exhaust pipe size and it should
be as close to the collectors as possible to get the best effect.
On Indy cars they have cross over headers which "exactly" balance the
pulses into the exhaust system eliminating the need for the balance
tube, again, as I understand it :-)
460's have a firing order of 15426378 as I recall which gives a bank
succession of: L-R-L-L-R-L-R-R As you can see the pulses, if left
to each side's header and pipe, would be uneven and the resonance
would be lost (resonance is the vacuum effect you mentioned).
On an Indy car with this firing order, cylinders 2 & 3 would be
piped over to the right bank and cylinders 6 & 7 would be piped to
the left bank which makes the pulses in each side of the system
exactly even at the collectors and in the pipes throughout their
lengths. My guess is that Indy cars have a more even firing order in
the first place so not as many tubes would have to be moved but not
> iron wheels didn't help the process at all. Details please...
> my engine hoist could do a lot of "yard jobs" , like moving
> heavy old **Ford** (content)parts around, if I could just get
> it in the yard.
> I'm also sure others could profit from your labors.
That's what the list is for, right? Basically I used the original
spring plates with the "U" bolt holes in it as a base but used 1"
square bar as a spacer to space it from the top of the rear cross
tube of the hoist (opposit of where the casters were, on top instead
The axle has flat spring perches welded on already so I used those to
mount it on the hoist. It was too long so I cut 16" out of the
center of the axle tube and used angle iron and clamps to position it
for welding it back together with spring perches clamped flat to the
hoist to square them up.
The spacers were the spring plate with 1" square piece welded in the
center so the "U" bolt would fit past it and allow for the nuts.
(looked like a short "T" with a wide top) This assy then was welded
with 1" square down to the top of the hoist rear tube. Next lay the
axle on the slip the "U" bolts into the plate and tighten it all up.
My "U" bolts were too long since I didn't need the springs and the
threads were too short to cut them off so I welded the spring perches
to the spacer instead but I can add "U" bolts any time I want since
that's the way I designed it.
The result puts the tires just on the ground with most of the hoist
weight on them but not quite as much as the casters so the front two
sets of casters still carry the whole load when operating as a hoist
as they did any way since the rear casters were behind the load
center but now I can tip the hoist back on the tires with no step or
drop and just walk it anywhere the tires will work. I believe they
are 13" trailer tires. It moves very easily and all I need do now is
add a hitch where the "T" handle is and It can be towed on the
highway since I was very carefull to line the axle up with the axis
of the hoist.
As to your sinking problem, I always have a piece of plywood or OSB
lying around just for that purpose. I just keep it on edge in the
garage against a wall where I can drag it out when needed but stored
it only takes up a couple of inches of floor space.
The only draw back to using this out in the yard is that it basically
still has to stay where you set it while using it. You still can't
roll it around with a load on it, but that wasn't my purpose. If you
really need it for that you could make a dolly up to fit to the front
and use it as a trailer I suppose but my plan is to simply set it in
the back of the truck bed and use it like a wrecker (tied down of
course) If you do this make sure to tie the boom with chain so it
can't swing sideways and damage the boom pivot bracket etc. before
trying to take off across the lawn with it loaded with a 1200#
engine/tranny load :-)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:23:32 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Engine hoists,barns and pickups... and age
> From: jniolon uss.com
> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 06:49 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Engine hoists,barns and pickups... and age
> and vaavavaavoom, heeeeyyyy Ralphie!!! I got lights!!!
> I wonder how many of our gentle readers can appreciate this
> "0ne of these days, Alice...POW...straight to the moon !!!"
I thought it was "right in the kisser"?? Guess I'll have to get
cable and refresh my memory with "Nick" :-) How many people do you
know who can (could) sink all the balls on the break??
Tony writes: >>My 78's steering pump is whining. I just got done
rebuilding this truck, and now when I turn, it sounds like I have a
compressor under thehood. (what's the problem you ask?!)
Make sure you don't have the belt too tight. Sometimes this will cause
whining in the pump. The belt on a powersteering pump needs only to be
tight enough for it not to slip. Too many people think of alternators
when they are tightening the pwr steering and this will usually get the
front bushing in the pump real quick.
> here) changed the oil and filter in the transmission. Somewhere
> along the line, someone put Ford ATF in the C6 instead of Dexron.
> The viscosity is different and they aren't interchnageable. Ford ATF
> is thinner and ruins the cooling, efficiency, internal pressure and
> everything else. It also won't back up a hill with a ton of oak
If you mean Dextron III this may be true but if you mean Dextron II I
think you are badly mistaken. It may be better than generic ATF but
not better than Ford Type F. ALL ford transmissions except the H-5
use the same spec as type F including the AOD etc.. The new standard
is "Mercon" which is the type F spec with some additions and is
supposed to work in older ford trannys too. If you want flow try
synthetic ATF but get a good one like AMSOIL. That's my next
project. It will be going into my 94 Tbird and my daughter's 97
F-150 as soon as I get a new converter for the 94 (clutches are
> The multi vis will break down at the high heat, especially the
> pariffin based oils.
If you read up on the latest break throughs in synthetics and read
the spec sheets and compare to Petroleum specs I think you will have
to agree that most of these complaints have been essentially
eliminated. Synthetics have roughly twice the heat tolerance and
much greater shear strength than the best petroleum oils along with
much better Viscosity Index which is really what keeps things lubed
between temp extremes. I beat my engines to death (lousy driver) in
Michigan temps between -30 and 100+ and don't change oil when I
should (varies from 3k to 10k) and get 120k out of every thing
easily. I'm lazy so I'm going to try the AMSOIL 0W30 racing oil in
both vehicles mentioned as well and see if the 25k oil change cycle
really works :-) I'm putting it in engines that don't leak and are
still fairly fresh although the tech guy I talked to said he put it
in an engine with 110k miles on it and it's working so far with no
leaks but it wasn't leaking before either.
> I also beleive in Slick 50. My brother's Grand Marquis has 160,000 miles and is still going strong.
Now we really have a problem................:-)
> proper brake bleeding sequence was just in time. My temporary fix
> for the master cylinder was to drill a hole between the two
> reservoirs, then put the lid on with a stainless steel hose clamp.
> The truck has to be doing a nose dive to check th fluid.
Essentially you have defeated the safety aspect of the separated
resivoirs but I don't understand the nose dive thing? Bend the wire
retainer so it pulls more tightly on the cap and it won't leak. I
had to do this on a rebuilt one I just installed. Sanding the edge
of the resivoir to smooth the lip may help too but don't get the grit
into the system :-(
> My other problem involves the power steering pump. It leaks, so I
> replaced both lines. It still leaks between the case and the high
> pressure connection. I think the Towncar is starting the same thing.
There is an "O" ring in the fitting the hose screws into. The
fitting can be removed from the back of the pump and the "O" ring
replaced. Some also have an "O" ring on the hose (the ones that
swivel). I pinched one and had to replace it once.
The other fittings are all flares and must be free of burrs, dents or
dirt to seal.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:57:48 -0400
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: Stalls out in Humidity
Drew!!! Have you ever changed the plug wires????????? Give this some
thought. I don't think your problem is with the carb. Maybe the air
filter, but I'm thinking more on the ignition side.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:06:49 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: New member - helping nephew with 61
> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 03:57:36 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Mark Moburg
> Subject: New member - helping nephew with 61
> There seems to be a loud knocking noise. At first we thought it
> might be a rod bearing, but it's intermittent, it sounds higher up
> in the engine, and it doesn't go away when I pull off the spark plug
> leads one at a time. My thoughts are: collapsed lifter, bent
> pushrod, broken piston or piston rings. Any suggestions?
LIfters can be intermittant if hydraulic and cams can make a bunch of
noise if the retainer gets loose and allows the lobes to whack the
cast iron. Timing chains can sometimes make some noise if very loose
too. The only other think that comes to mind is a damaged
distributor gear........Oh and a sticking fuel pump lever. When it
pops loose it can whack the cam with some noise but the engine should
be having some trouble running smoothly with some of these problems
The small ford 6's can have holed pistons if run hard but that would
cause firing through the crank case usually. A wrist pin can make
some noise but usually isn't intermittant as can piston slap with the
It's a tough call without actually hearing the noise :-(
Deacon,your opinon has been noted.If buying a cab/chassis and a blower
constitutes dreaming in your world,glad I'm in mine,as for just the way
you see it,try a different perspective,yours could stand some
improvement.Re:Dennis and form follws function.Its a great idea and I
follow it in most fo what I do,however when it comes to hobbies its
boring and sometimes I like to be different for its own sake.I'm sure
big blocks,in particular the 460 are great pullers and if it works for
you,great.If cost were the only consideration then I would move up to a
late 70's early 80's ford as the parts around here are cheaper and
much,much easier to find,But I want a 1969 F-350 with a kick-ass I-6
that looks great and if past experience is an indicater I'll have
the equilizer tube increase collector volume. that is why they say to
install it as close to the collector as possible. it also does have a
scavenging effect. but is the better scavenging from the volume increase
or the joining of the 2 collectors? maybe a combo of both. the data i
have seen shows that there sometimes is an improvement by using one, but
never a loss. so it is always good to have one.
most engines do not have enough length to the collector, so i feel that the
volume increase may help more than the pressure wave oscillating in the
balance pipe for most street engines. i could be wrong though.
my point tho, was that the balance pipe does not actually increase
available flow through the exhaust by a substantial amount. but, it does
make it run quieter though, enough to be noticeable to those delicate ears
in the passenger seat.
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 1998 7:11 AM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: RE: 2 into 1
+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
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sounds like a cool truck to me!! is that a 2wd or 4wd? any lift/drop?
duallies or single wide meats? or is it all stock resto but the blower?
tell me! i like different!
From: Bruce Hart[SMTP:tripp golden.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 1998 11:45 AM
To: fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net
,But I want a 1969 F-350 with a kick-ass I-6
that looks great and if past experience is an indicater I'll have
> You know, That stopped that! I must've cranked it down too tight.
> Thanks! (and thanks Gary for the explanation. That combined with my
> shop manual pictures helped)
While on the power steering topic, my front end had a clunk in it when
turning from side to side. Cranked down on the screw and it went away but
the clunking leads me to believe the steering box needs building. Did
someone earlier post some info on rebuilding these. I've rebuilt the one
in my mustang and they are pretty simple, except this one has hydraulics in
it. Does someone make a rebuild kit for these large steering boxes.
Have to say my 69 F100 w/302 2bbl does this also on any rainy day and like
you said it runs fine for a while but then will not idle at all. I have to
keep my foot in it between gears to keep it from stalling.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:23:18 EDT
Subject: Re: Difference between a F-100 and F-150
I've had two 800 pound rocks it the back of my F100 along with the enigine
hoist we used to get them in and it was no where near bottoming out the
suspension with no mods. TRhis isn't what I do often but boy does she ride
like a Caddy then!
From: Bruce Hart
>Deacon,your opinon has been noted.
That was an observation Bruce. If you want my opinion, I'll be more than
happy to share my thoughts!
>If buying a cab/chassis and a blower
>constitutes dreaming in your world,glad I'm in mine,
Your truck needs a cab and chassis and your buying a $2500 blower
it. Dreamer isn't really what I'm thinking, but I'll stick with it. Yes
in my world your dreaming.
I know your happy in your world. To be honest, I wish I was in
>as for just the way you see it,
>try a different perspective,yours could stand some improvement.
You are absolutely right Bruce! I'll work on my perspective. It's hard
when I see things so clearly. But I will try!
>Re:Dennis and form follws function.Its a great idea and I
>follow it in most fo what I do,however when it comes to hobbies its
>boring and sometimes I like to be different for its own sake.I'm sure
>big blocks,in particular the 460 are great pullers and if it works for
I don't know what your talking about. I have a 302 in my daily
and an FE360 in the other, so I don't think this is directed at me so
I'll skip it.
If it is. What are you talking about!
>If cost were the only consideration then I would move up to a
>late 70's early 80's ford as the parts around here are cheaper and
>much,much easier to find,
I don't care what a person likes, does or spends on their truck.
Personally I like the '57 F100 and wish I had one. If I had one that....To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User
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