fordtrucks61-79-digest Monday, April 13 1998 Volume 02 : Number 211



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
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In this issue:

Re: 1965 F-100 [DGholsM ]
Re: manual to auto conversion [George Herpich ]
Re: Auto Krafters/KB pistons [George Herpich ]
Re: 6v to 12v? [George Herpich ]
Re: manual to auto conversion ["Bill Beyer" ]
RE: Auto Krafters/KB pistons [Sleddog ]
tranny swaps etc. [Sleddog ]
Re: tranny swaps etc. [Ractrk002 ]
Re:Dearborn Classics Number [Antonio ]
Re: Auto Krafters/KB pistons [Ractrk002 ]
PTO mounting [ballingr ldd.net (WILLIAM L BALLINGER)]
Re: 1965 F-100 [Floyd Terrell ]
RE: Auto Krafters/KB pistons [Randy Collins ]
First year for Supercab & F-150 [Marsha Herrmann ]
Re: First year for Supercab & F-150 [Kurt Albershardt ]
stripes [MISTERHOBO ]
Re: Re: Please recommend your favorite year/configuration for the F150 []
Re: RE: First year for extended cab 150's: Please help! [NielsA
Re: Re: Please recommend your fav.... [NielsA ]
Re: First year for Supercab & F-150 [NielsA ]
5.8 FCW ["John Kosche" ]
Re: manual to auto conversion [George Herpich ]
New List Member with Some Questions [Chip Rosan ]
Re: New List Member with Some Questions [BPayne1011 ]
Re: manual to auto conversion [Ractrk002 ]
RE: manual to auto conversion [Sleddog ]
65 ford box [Aaron Jacobson ]
Rockwell ["Robert Harris" ]

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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 07:50:42 EDT
From: DGholsM
Subject: Re: 1965 F-100

I had the same problem with mine too. My voltage regulator had been falling
off too I ended up putting a tie on it. Also check all of you under hood
eletrical connections mine were loose and corroded.


DMG
71 F-350 W/360
77 Lincoln W/460

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 08:34:43 -0400
From: George Herpich
Subject: Re: manual to auto conversion

I would like to add one observation to this thread. I have mechanical temp
gauges for both engine and trans and I can tell you that the engine reaches
normal temp way before the trans gauge ever leaves the peg (140). This is in
So. FL. I use both radiator and auxiliary trans coolers.
George

Bill Beyer wrote:

> ----------
> > From: danadeb pacbell.net
> > To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> > Subject: Re: manual to auto conversion
> > Date: Friday, April 10, 1998 11:40 PM
> >
> > >
> > > Uh,uh...the trans cooler in the radiator is strictly a manufacturers
> > > convenience item.
> >
> > It is convenient.
> >
> > > It's actually a pretty poor unit.
> >
> > They seem to have worked very well for millions of cars/trucks.
>
> Then why is there such a big demand for aftermarket units?
>
> > > If your reasoning is
> > > that the coolant warms up the trans fluid faster that's incorrect.
> Remember
> > > that the coolant in the engine doesn't even hit the radiator 'til
> you're a
> > > ways down the road (unless of course you have no tstat!).
> >
> >
> > The engine will get to operating temp way before the trans will.
> >
>
> No that's not quite true. Technically the trans is at operating temp when
> you start the vehicle unless you live in Fairbanks Alaska and it's -50 F.
> That's why trans fluid is so much lighter weight than motor oil. The more
> heat the fluid builds up the more it breaks down.
>
> > > The tranny fluid
> > > is pretty warm by then since you're already driving. The only way to
> "warm
> > > up the trans faster" is to have an external heating unit on it.
> >
> >
> > That's what the radiator does.
> >
>
> Circulating warm fluid through a cold radiator isn't going to warm the
> fluid up.
>
> > > When you're
> > > driving it's almost impossible to have the trans fluid "too cold."
> >
> >
> > lets see the engine has a thermostat to keep it from getting too cold,
> Big Rigs
> > have louvers to limit the air flow through their radiators. Cooling
> towers on
> > office buildings stage their fans to keep the fluid from getting too
> cool.
> >
>
> ATF stays viscous well below 0 F. Unless you've figured out some magic way
> to cool it down that much when the ambient air temperature 32 or above you
> CAN'T get the fluid cold enough to stop working. How many times have you
> seen tranny failure due to overcooling?
>
> > > You'd be much better off to keep the stock radiator and put on a
> quality
> > > aftermarket cooler mounted in front of the radiator.
> >
> > If it was mounted it behind the radiator then you might get a little heat
> from
> > the radiator to keep things warmer when needed.
>
> According to the instructions on my cooler it states that behind the
> radiator is the LAST choice for mounting.
>
> > Lets see in the north west at 10 below the operating temp of the trans
> would be
> > a little too much on the low side.
>
> What's the "low side?"
>
> > By the way All of the add on trans coolers I
> > have ever seen specifically state that the new cooler should be installed
> in
> > series with the in radiator cooler.
> >
>
> If you have a radiator cooler.
>
> >
> > > B&M makes a great
> > > cooler, but whichever one you buy add a few thousand pounds to your
> GVWR
> > > when you buy it since you don't have any cooling in the radiator.
> >
> >
> > Some hi end, add on, trans coolers come with thermostatically controlled
> valves
> > to keep the trans at it's proper operating temp.
> >
>
> Yes they work the same way as engine tstats. When the tranny gets too hot
> they allow the fluid to circulate through the cooling element. I think if
> you checked you'd find that the tstat opens very quickly and stays open 99%
> of the time.
>
> >
> > > You can
> > > buy steel brake lines at most auto parts stores to use for cooler
> lines,
> > > but you will need a flaring tool and tubing bender.
> > >
> >
> > I stand by original comment!
> >
>
> Unless the OEM radiator is shot why waste the money on a new rad when an
> aftermarket unit will work better and save money?
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 08:59:00 -0400
From: George Herpich
Subject: Re: Auto Krafters/KB pistons

KB pistons are hypereutectic. They're stronger than cast but not as strong as
forged. They are as stable as cast and can be used with tight clearances like
cast. That's why Ford started using hypereutectics in the 5.0 mustang in the
90's. They would be fine in a normally aspirated engine, but then so would stock
type cast.
As far as compression ratio, there is more than the piston to consider. The size
of the combustion chamber is a big factor. You could buy 10.5 pistons and wind up
with 9:1. The advertised ratio is probably for cobra jet heads. Find out the
volume of your chambers and the volume of the valve relief's on the pistons (they
sound like flat tops) and what the deck height is supposed to be with those
pistons, add the volume of the head gasket and someone here with a program or
patients enough to do the math can tell you what the real cr will be.

George

BPayne1011 wrote:

> What about keith black pistons for the 429 im putting together are they worth
> it and is 10.5 to1 to much help??????
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:00:01 -0400
From: George Herpich
Subject: Re: 6v to 12v?

1956 for cars. I think trucks would be the same.
George

Jon E Purut wrote:

> What year did Ford change from 6v to 12v on their trucks?
>
> Also I got the F500 to move under it's own power yesterday. What a rush!
> Now I have to work on the brakes. Good thing the farm has lots of wide
> open space. Nothing to hit and lots of room to slow down.
>
> Jon E. Purut
> Pickup65 juno.com
> JCPurut worldnet.att.net
> Visit my site http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~JCPurut
>
> 1964 F500 (It's alive, it's alive, so fun to drive)
> 1965 F100 SWB Daily Driver
> 1965 F100
> 1977 F150
> 1970 Mustang Fastback
> 1993 Escort Wagon (wifes car)
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 07:18:35 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: manual to auto conversion

- ----------
> From: George Herpich
> To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> Subject: Re: manual to auto conversion
> Date: Sunday, April 12, 1998 5:34 AM
>
> I would like to add one observation to this thread. I have mechanical
temp
> gauges for both engine and trans and I can tell you that the engine
reaches
> normal temp way before the trans gauge ever leaves the peg (140). This is
in
> So. FL. I use both radiator and auxiliary trans coolers.
> George
>

That's really not surprising in So. FL. You're also using an aux tranny
cooler. Now try the same thing in Michigan in the winter. The point I was
trying to make is that it's not critical to add heat to the tranny fluid so
why go to the extra expense of swapping out/modifying a perfectly good
radiator when simply putting in a good aux cooler would work just fine.
I've swapped an auto into a manual rig and all I had to do was put in a B&M
cooler and it works great.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 11:38:01 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: Auto Krafters/KB pistons

i use randy collins' compression calculater. it works great. thanks randy. i beleive i got it from the ford-trucks website.

sleddog

someone here with a program or
patients enough to do the math can tell you what the real cr will be.

George

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 11:43:00 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: tranny swaps etc.

the march issue of car craft has a engine-to-trans adapter list. it looks
comprehensive for autos, but not manuals. but, why would someone want to
replace a c-6 with a th400? anyway, someone may find it useful. how about
a mopar 727 to a FE? or a C4 to a 460? didn't find an AOD to FE or 460
listing though :(

sleddog

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 12:17:37 EDT
From: Ractrk002
Subject: Re: tranny swaps etc.

only reason I'd see to putting a chevy tranny behind a ford is if you wanted
to put a real motor in a chevy:)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:27:11 -0700
From: Antonio
Subject: Re:Dearborn Classics Number

Jim,
The number is 800 252 7427

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 12:26:54 EDT
From: Ractrk002
Subject: Re: Auto Krafters/KB pistons

The equation to figure Compression ratio :

first find the swept volume of the cylinder: bore x bore x stroke x 12,8704
(constant) = the swept volume of the cylinder

next you need to find the chamber volume of the head, you have to take into
account vale relifes and so forth. Usualy for two valve relifes you can
expect -4cc or an increse of the chamber size, also you need to know how much
the gasket will add to the chamber that equesion goes: gasket bore x gasket
bore x compressed thickness x 12.8704 = gasket volume

now to finsh finding gasket voume you add up the gasket volume the valve
relife volume and the advetized volume of the heads combution chamber.


take that figure and use it in this way



Compression ratio = Swept Volume + Total chamber volume
Total chamber volume

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 11:23:33 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (WILLIAM L BALLINGER)
Subject: PTO mounting

>Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:03:06 -0700
>From: Paul Parker
>Subject: P.T.O instilation{HELP}.....

>Hello, im not shure where to put my P.T.O.
>On the transmission{NP435} or the transfercase{NP205} its going rearward
>for a winch.
>its going on a supercab{really short frame}.
>Any help would be appreciated.
>Thanks.
>Grasshopper.

The PTO on the transmission will give you a 1:1 engine speed to shaft ratio,
so you would need a winch with reduction available and a reverse. The PTO on
the t-case will give you four forward speeds with a 6.69 low up to 1:1 high
and an 8.35 reverse. My choice would be the t-case since it will do
everything that the trans PTO can do, plus the added versatility of gear
reduction, and reverse. Running it from the t-case would likely be easier
for a rear mounted accesory application, where front mounted stuff would
work better from the tranny. Front suspension clearance would be a problem
on this. My choice would be a rear PTO from the t-case mounted to a trailer
reciever, with a heavy capacity winch on a slide-in mount so that you can
stow it, with an electric one that can mount the same way on either end.
Just have a reciever mount made for both ends. The electric winch could be
much lighter duty and you can run a snatch block to double it if needed.
The t-case PTO would make a great power unit for a log splitter, portable
sawmill, or chipper for remote locations. Fuel milage would dictate how you
use these, if you will be there for a week cutting, a Briggs and Stratton
powered unit would obviously be better.



Ballinger
Preferred Company
ballingr ldd.net

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 11:21:31 -0500
From: Floyd Terrell
Subject: Re: 1965 F-100

Roberta S Garner wrote:

> Hi, I'm new to this list serve. I just recently purchased a 1965 F-100.
> When I got it, the battery was old and leaking so I got a new battery
> but I am having trouble keeping the battery charged. It can usually be
> driven for a day or so and then I go to start it and the battery is dead.
> I took it to a mechanic yesterday and the diagnostics all check out O.K.
> All they found was a slightly loose connection of the negative battery
> cable. Anyone have any ideas what is causing this problem? I am not a
> mechanic but I love old trucks. Thank-you, Roberta in Tucson Az
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979

I also have a '65 F-100, and had the same symptoms, it was solved by
disconnecting, cleaning, and reconnecting using a dielectric compound on each
electrical connection. A real pain, but it worked.

The good part is anyone can do it, it doesn't require a mechanic. Just make
sure to do ONE connector at a time so you always know what connects where!

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Floyd Terrell

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 11:34:26 -0700
From: Randy Collins
Subject: RE: Auto Krafters/KB pistons

i use randy collins' compression calculater. it works great. thanks randy. i beleive i got it from the ford-trucks website.
sleddog

Thanks for the kind words!


Later,

Randy Collins
Boise, Idaho
rcollins micron.net

1975 Ford F250 4WD Supercab "Muscle Truck"
460 SUPER COBRA JET
Short Block Completed...Heads Sitting on the work bench!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:40:01 -0500
From: Marsha Herrmann
Subject: First year for Supercab & F-150

Hi! I am new to this list and this is my first post. I think you are all

doing an excellent job with answering the technical questions I have been

reading these past few weeks. Keep up the good work!


I'll also try to jump-in a little more often...


In responce to an earlier question; 1973 was the first year for the
Supercab,

1974 saw it made available in the F-100. Also, 1975 was the first year
for the

F-150 (also known then as the Heavy Duty half-ton).


Good Luck!!


1964 F-100 Custom Cab

1969 F-100 Custom Cab Ranger

1975 F-150 Explorer




------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:24:22 -0700
From: Kurt Albershardt
Subject: Re: First year for Supercab & F-150

At 02:40 PM 4/12/98 -0500, Marsha Herrmann wrote:

>>>>

In response to an earlier question; 1973 was the first year for
the Supercab,

1974 saw it made available in the F-100.





Meaning in 1973 there were SuperCab F-250's? This would be really cool.
I could get a 1979 SuperCab 4x4 and drop the 1973 body onto the frame,
thus keeping the older grill I like and possibly slipping through the
smog nazis' net.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 16:39:45 EDT
From: MISTERHOBO
Subject: stripes

I dont know if anyone would be interested... but...

I work for a sign shop, and I can make custom car stripe kits fairly quickly
and rather inexpensively... so if anyone is interested email me directly...

JiM

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 17:14:44 EDT
From: NielsA
Subject: Re: Re: Please recommend your favorite year/configuration for the F150

Thanks for the F150 info. I'm amassing a file of info for when I'm ready to
start seriously shopping, hopefully soon.
Thanks,
niels

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 17:16:16 EDT
From: NielsA
Subject: Re: RE: First year for extended cab 150's: Please help!

Thanks for the F150 info!
Niels

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 17:25:09 EDT
From: NielsA
Subject: Re: Re: Please recommend your fav....

Thanks for the F150 info!
Niels

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 17:27:30 EDT
From: NielsA
Subject: Re: First year for Supercab & F-150

Thanks for the F150 info!
Niels

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:43:11 -0700
From: "John Kosche"
Subject: 5.8 FCW

I need some info on EFI fuel systems. I am in the "why the F%&# did I
start this" stage of a 351W into a 62 Falcon Club Wagon (Econoline). The
351 was removed from an '89 pickup. I removed a pump and a filter from the
frame but it appears that another pump resides in the fuel tank..
Assuming the pump located nearest the engine is the high pressure pump is
the pump in the tank designed to feed the HP pump. Can I use an
aftermarket electric pump in its place...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 18:19:46 -0400
From: George Herpich
Subject: Re: manual to auto conversion

My argument was that the engine heats up faster than the trans. I thought you
were trying to say the opposite. No matter where you are, assuming you have a
thermostat, the engine will warm up first.
If you consider the second law of thermal dynamics that small tube running
through a large amount of water won't act nearly as well at warming the fluid
as it will cooling it. I don't think the auto mfgs had preheating the trans
fluid in mind when they designed the in-radiator coolers.
Most auxiliary cooler mfgs recommend running their coolers in series with the
stock unit because the stock one removes most of the heat before the fluid hits
the aux one. If you use only the aux you will need a bigger one.
George

> That's really not surprising in So. FL. You're also using an aux tranny
> cooler. Now try the same thing in Michigan in the winter. The point I was
> trying to make is that it's not critical to add heat to the tranny fluid so
> why go to the extra expense of swapping out/modifying a perfectly good
> radiator when simply putting in a good aux cooler would work just fine.
> I've swapped an auto into a manual rig and all I had to do was put in a B&M
> cooler and it works great.
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 18:18:03 -0400
From: Chip Rosan
Subject: New List Member with Some Questions

First of all, I'm amazed at the knowledge base that is here. Glad I
found this list.

I own a '65 F100 SWB, have had it since 1981; was originally a 6 cyl.-
previous owner's wife ran it without oil. He replaced it with a 302.
3-speed manual, was on column, now shifts from the floor. 115K original
miles. Need some (lotsa) body work, particularly in the bed.

Here's the question: Seems the steering gearbox has gone south. Wants
to bind up and is nearly impossible to drive. I figure this is a good
time to install power steering, just to make it more drivable. Not
concerned with originality. Any ideas or suggestions??

chip
crosan delanet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:21:12 EDT
From: BPayne1011
Subject: Re: New List Member with Some Questions

Check your king pins

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:25:01 EDT
From: Ractrk002
Subject: Re: manual to auto conversion

Hows about those trannys with a high stall, theres a way to get a hot tranny!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:10:04 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: manual to auto conversion

no doubt, that is why i use synthetics in my fords tranny. a fellow truck
puller had a 20 deg drop in tranny temp at the end of the track after
switching to synthetics.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Ractrk002[SMTP:Ractrk002 aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 1998 9:25 PM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Re: manual to auto conversion

Hows about those trannys with a high stall, theres a way to get a hot
tranny!






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| List removal information is on the web site. |
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:11:58 -0700
From: Aaron Jacobson
Subject: 65 ford box

Anyone out there tell me what the circular cutouts at the front of my
65's box are used for? I've seen another 65 driving around my area and
it had them also.I thought because mine is a camper special they might
have had something tom do with that but the other 65 was a half ton and
had them also??????

------------------------------....


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