fordtrucks61-79-digest Sunday, April 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 210



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
To unsubscribe, send email to:
fordtrucks61-79-digest-request listservice.net
with the word "unsubscribe" in the body of the message. For help, send
email to the same address with the word "help" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: Proportioning Valves [George Herpich ]
Re: 460 Weight and Size [DGholsM ]
Re: Auto Krafters [DGholsM ]
Re: 67-72 F-350 [DGholsM ]
6v to 12v? [pickup65 juno.com (Jon E Purut)]
Reliability of the 360 [DGholsM ]
Re: manual to auto conversion [DGholsM ]
Re:Auto Krafters Classic Ford Parts ["Ronald D. Miller"
P.T.O instilation{HELP}..... [Paul Parker ]
Re: Please recommend your fav.... [Tony Marino ]
Re: 460 Weight and Size ["JAMES MERLO" ]
Re: Auto Krafters [BPayne1011 ]
Re: 6v to 12v? [danadeb pacbell.net]
Re: manual to auto conversion ["Bill Beyer" ]
Re: manual to auto conversion [danadeb pacbell.net]
Trans cooling...was:Re: manual to auto conversion ["Bill Beyer"
66-77 Bronco P/S [Joe DeLaurentis ]
Re: Antique insurance for trucks [Brian ]
1965 F-100 [bertolina juno.com (Roberta S Garner)]
Re: 1965 F-100 [Ractrk002 ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:47:17 -0400
From: George Herpich
Subject: Re: Proportioning Valves

It sounds like the prop valve needs to be reset. If you only did front brakes and
did not bleed the rears this is likely. Try bleeding the whole system starting
with the right rear, left rear, right front and left front.
The master cylinder should match the calipers. If the m/c bore is too small by the
time it gets the calipers to clamp down the rears will have locked up and you do
not want that. Whatever you do, when you get it so everything feels right, test
them thoroughly in a big parking lot or someplace similar. Have someone watch the
wheels and make sure the fronts lock first. Otherwise you'll be spinning donuts
the first time you have to hit the brakes hard.

George

BDIJXS wrote:

> Can anyone check their books to see if the brake proportioning valves for the
> 77 F-150 4x4 (disc brakes) and the 76-77 F-250 4x4 (heavy duty, dual piston
> calipers) are the same? What about the master cylinders as well?
>
> I have a master cylinder and proportioning valve out of the F-150 and am using
> the F-250 brakes and hubs. I'm pretty sure I have the air out of the system,
> but there seems to still be excess travel in the brake pedal. I'll re-bleed
> again tomorrow to make sure, but I need to know if these parts are even
> interchangable at all.....
>
> Any experts here on such a swap????
>
> Colorado Jeff
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:23:05 EDT
From: DGholsM
Subject: Re: 460 Weight and Size

Good luck. I'm not that familiar with the 69 Ranchero I attempted to replace
my 351W into a 75 Ranchero with a 460 ( I know their quite different) and I
was told back then I would have to change my coil springs Stabilizer bar along
with the transmission mounts and engine mounts ( I'm sure U know this) but the
460 weighed consideralbly more of couse it was a small block to a Monster
block I decided not because I was still in High School and only wroking
partime and this was 10 ten years ago.


DMG
71 F-350 W360
77 Lincoln W/460

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:25:12 EDT
From: DGholsM
Subject: Re: Auto Krafters

great company.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:32:57 EDT
From: DGholsM
Subject: Re: 67-72 F-350

I've noticed quite a few here in Metro Atlanta, ga. I'll check a couple of
them out and get back with you. They seem to b in good condition.


DMG
71 F-350 W/360
77 Lincoln W/460

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:40:11 -0400
From: pickup65 juno.com (Jon E Purut)
Subject: 6v to 12v?

What year did Ford change from 6v to 12v on their trucks?

Also I got the F500 to move under it's own power yesterday. What a rush!
Now I have to work on the brakes. Good thing the farm has lots of wide
open space. Nothing to hit and lots of room to slow down.

Jon E. Purut
Pickup65 juno.com
JCPurut worldnet.att.net
Visit my site http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~JCPurut

1964 F500 (It's alive, it's alive, so fun to drive)
1965 F100 SWB Daily Driver
1965 F100
1977 F150
1970 Mustang Fastback
1993 Escort Wagon (wifes car)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:47:30 EDT
From: DGholsM
Subject: Reliability of the 360

If anyone knows the history of these engines Please help me. About 6 months
ago I purchased a 71 F-350 with a NP435. I've had to replace the intake
gasket the water pump and two fuel pumps, and about 4 sets of donut gaskets my
only guess is that it has the wrong exhuast pipes on it since purchasing this
truck. I decided the next time I go under the hood for the Dag Blasted
Exhaust Leaks I'm going back with Headers and a couple of turbo mufflers. I
also installed an oil pressure guage and the pressure is great what can I do
to get better mileage out of this thing. Its a dually and won a pulling
contest with a 90 F-350 that was diesel and automatic. But as for just
driving around town it is horrible I drove to Birmingham, Al from Atlanta, Ga
and I spent $40 in gas round trip. Any Info would greatly apprieciated.

DMG
71 F-350
77 Lincoln

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:58:01 EDT
From: DGholsM
Subject: Re: manual to auto conversion

Is the C-6 relativly better than a NP 435?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 98 09:30:33 -0500
From: "Ronald D. Miller"
Subject: Re:Auto Krafters Classic Ford Parts

>Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:28:30 -0400
>From: Ken Payne
>Subject: Auto Krafters
>
>Dear Ford Truck Enthusiasts:
>
>We have a new advertiser on our web site. Our practice with
>web site advertisers has been to make a brief announcement for
>2 days (this is day 1 of 2). Please show your appreciation to
>them for helping to support the web site and the lists by
>checking out their site:
>
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.auto krafters. com
>
>Auto Krafters sells new parts for both new and old Ford/Mercury
>trucks and cars. They carry parts for late model Explorers,
>Expeditions, Rangers, and F-series. Additionally, they sell
>parts to help restore 1953-1979 to original condition. They
>carry 13 different catalogs of genuine and reproduction parts.
>
>We would like to have them know that you heard about them via
>the Ford Truck Enthusiasts group.
>
>Now returning you to our regularly scheduled program...
>
>Ken Payne
>CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
>
Thanks, Ken for the intro. For those of you who do not know me, my name
is Ron Miller and I'm the owner of Auto Krafters Classic Ford Parts in
Broadway, VA. I've been involved with Fords for over 25 years. In fact,
1998 is Auto Krafters' 20th Anniversary. We sell both new and used
parts.
Here is a special deal for readers of the Ford truck list: Email me your
snail mail address along with the year and model of Fords owned and I'll
see that a free catalog for your vehicle is mailed to you at no charge.
(Save $3.00-$6.00) This offer is good for US and Canada only. Check out
our web site to see what all we offer. Secure online ordering will be
available within the next 2-3 weeks.
Also, we need good photos of Ford cars and trucks for our print catalogs
and web site. We will issue a $25.00 merchandise credit for any photo we
use. Our address is on the web site.
Note: email and snail mail address' are kept confidential. At the
present time I read all emails personally, so if you have any questions
or comments, please don't hesitate to write. Thanks, Ron Miller

akraft shentel.net

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.auto krafters. com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:03:06 -0700
From: Paul Parker
Subject: P.T.O instilation{HELP}.....

Hello, im not shure where to put my P.T.O.
On the transmission{NP435} or the transfercase{NP205} its going rearward
for a winch.
its going on a supercab{really short frame}.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Grasshopper.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:08:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Re: Please recommend your fav....

I'd have to say '78 specifically if you could! (if 4x4)

Better, stronger steering geometry,
wider rear leafs (3 inch)

Inline-6! (sorry guys)
Enough power to do anything you want, and on my '78 I get 16mpg!
Not to mention, in 78 no, catalytic converter! '79 had one!
(I have some stuff to fax you for when E-check doesn't believe you if
you have to go through that crap. Long story)

My .02

Tony
tony pscico.com
www.pscico.com

> Hi!
>
> Thanks for reading my post.
>
> Please recommend your favorite F150. I'm shopping for a fun new (old) truck,
> but I don't know which years to stay away from. I like the early seventies
> years a lot, but I worry about reliability. And which size motor would serve
> me best in the city (I won't be hauling anything serious).
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Nielsa aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:03:26 -0500
From: "JAMES MERLO"
Subject: Re: 460 Weight and Size

Antonio,
Do you have a phone number for Dearborn classics?
Jim

- ----------
> From: Antonio
> To: Ford Truck List
> Subject: 460 Weight and Size
> Date: Friday, April 10, 1998 10:55 AM
>
> Hello Everyone,
> I have a 59 Ranchero with the stock Police Special 352 motor.
> Recently I have come across a 460 with tranny for $300. Hmmm... Not to
> start any FE vs 460 wars but it appeals to
> my inborn urge to render the car/truck inoperable for a few months
(years?)
> while it relaxes on jackstands, takes up the driveway and makes my
> girlfriend question our love.
> Dearborn classics has engine mount kits for this conversion so I assume
it
> is doable, my questions center more around the
> weight and size of the 460 vs the venerable FE. Are the two engines
> dimensionally similar? The engine bay is already quite crowded with the
FE.
> I can't imagine there is too much that weighs more than the FE, but any
> input on this from the Masters of all things Ford would be greatly
> appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Antonio
>
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:16:21 EDT
From: BPayne1011
Subject: Re: Auto Krafters

What about keith black pistons for the 429 im putting together are they worth
it and is 10.5 to1 to much help??????

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:10:33 -0700
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: 6v to 12v?

Jon E Purut wrote:
>
> What year did Ford change from 6v to 12v on their trucks?


I think it was 53 or 54 maybe even 55 I had a 56 and it was 12v but in that
truck series (53-56) there are 6v parts

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:46:33 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: manual to auto conversion

- ----------
> From: danadeb pacbell.net
> To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> Subject: Re: manual to auto conversion
> Date: Friday, April 10, 1998 11:40 PM
>
> >
> > Uh,uh...the trans cooler in the radiator is strictly a manufacturers
> > convenience item.
>
> It is convenient.
>
> > It's actually a pretty poor unit.
>
> They seem to have worked very well for millions of cars/trucks.

Then why is there such a big demand for aftermarket units?

> > If your reasoning is
> > that the coolant warms up the trans fluid faster that's incorrect.
Remember
> > that the coolant in the engine doesn't even hit the radiator 'til
you're a
> > ways down the road (unless of course you have no tstat!).
>
>
> The engine will get to operating temp way before the trans will.
>

No that's not quite true. Technically the trans is at operating temp when
you start the vehicle unless you live in Fairbanks Alaska and it's -50 F.
That's why trans fluid is so much lighter weight than motor oil. The more
heat the fluid builds up the more it breaks down.

> > The tranny fluid
> > is pretty warm by then since you're already driving. The only way to
"warm
> > up the trans faster" is to have an external heating unit on it.
>
>
> That's what the radiator does.
>

Circulating warm fluid through a cold radiator isn't going to warm the
fluid up.

> > When you're
> > driving it's almost impossible to have the trans fluid "too cold."
>
>
> lets see the engine has a thermostat to keep it from getting too cold,
Big Rigs
> have louvers to limit the air flow through their radiators. Cooling
towers on
> office buildings stage their fans to keep the fluid from getting too
cool.
>

ATF stays viscous well below 0 F. Unless you've figured out some magic way
to cool it down that much when the ambient air temperature 32 or above you
CAN'T get the fluid cold enough to stop working. How many times have you
seen tranny failure due to overcooling?

> > You'd be much better off to keep the stock radiator and put on a
quality
> > aftermarket cooler mounted in front of the radiator.
>
> If it was mounted it behind the radiator then you might get a little heat
from
> the radiator to keep things warmer when needed.

According to the instructions on my cooler it states that behind the
radiator is the LAST choice for mounting.

> Lets see in the north west at 10 below the operating temp of the trans
would be
> a little too much on the low side.

What's the "low side?"

> By the way All of the add on trans coolers I
> have ever seen specifically state that the new cooler should be installed
in
> series with the in radiator cooler.
>

If you have a radiator cooler.

>
> > B&M makes a great
> > cooler, but whichever one you buy add a few thousand pounds to your
GVWR
> > when you buy it since you don't have any cooling in the radiator.
>
>
> Some hi end, add on, trans coolers come with thermostatically controlled
valves
> to keep the trans at it's proper operating temp.
>

Yes they work the same way as engine tstats. When the tranny gets too hot
they allow the fluid to circulate through the cooling element. I think if
you checked you'd find that the tstat opens very quickly and stays open 99%
of the time.

>
> > You can
> > buy steel brake lines at most auto parts stores to use for cooler
lines,
> > but you will need a flaring tool and tubing bender.
> >
>
> I stand by original comment!
>

Unless the OEM radiator is shot why waste the money on a new rad when an
aftermarket unit will work better and save money?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:10:49 -0700
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: manual to auto conversion

Bill Beyer wrote:
>

>
> No that's not quite true. Technically the trans is at operating temp when
> you start the vehicle unless you live in Fairbanks Alaska and it's -50 F.
> That's why trans fluid is so much lighter weight than motor oil. The more
> heat the fluid builds up the more it breaks down.


The trans normal operating temp is in the over 200 deg range. Where do you live
that the ambient air temp is over 200 deg?







>
> Circulating warm fluid through a cold radiator isn't going to warm the
> fluid up.

Right but since the radiator warms up faster then the trans the trans cooler
will be adding heat to the trans.




> ATF stays viscous well below 0 F. Unless you've figured out some magic way
> to cool it down that much when the ambient air temperature 32 or above you
> CAN'T get the fluid cold enough to stop working. How many times have you
> seen tranny failure due to overcooling?


I am not saying that the trans fluid will be a problem I am saying that the
internal clearances will be reduced and cause friction and accelerated wear.




> According to the instructions on my cooler it states that behind the
> radiator is the LAST choice for mounting.


Correct, when used in conjunction with an in radiator cooler


> > a little too much on the low side.
>
> What's the "low side?"


Less then designed operating temp. like when some people remove the thermostat
from their engine and find it runs at about 160,( 20-40 degs below designed temp
range)



> If you have a radiator cooler.


I would think that the cooler manufactures are assuming that you already have an
in radiator cooler and because you are going to tow a heavy load or have a lot
of extra weight in the bed, you will be putting an extra load on the trans which
will warm the trans up more then desirable, thus the recommendation to add a
cooler.





> Yes they work the same way as engine tstats. When the tranny gets too hot
> they allow the fluid to circulate through the cooling element. I think if
> you checked you'd find that the tstat opens very quickly and stays open 99%
> of the time.


I doubt that!





>
> Unless the OEM radiator is shot why waste the money on a new rad when an
> aftermarket unit will work better and save money?




Like I said in my original post: If the rad is in good shape bring it to a rad
shop and have an in radiator cooler added. Won't cost much and would give me
peace of mind.



Dana

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:58:48 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Trans cooling...was:Re: manual to auto conversion

- ----------
> From: danadeb pacbell.net
> To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> Subject: Re: manual to auto conversion
> Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 3:10 PM


> The trans normal operating temp is in the over 200 deg range. Where do
you live
> that the ambient air temp is over 200 deg?
>

You might want to double check your research. Automatic transmissions
operate between 150 F and 200 F. Source: B&M. Temperatures over 200 cause
fluid breakdown which is the leading cause of transmission failures.

>
> >
> > Circulating warm fluid through a cold radiator isn't going to warm the
> > fluid up.
>
> Right but since the radiator warms up faster then the trans the trans
cooler
> will be adding heat to the trans.
>

Since we're talking about "overcooling" the transmission, obviously the
radiator isn't going to warm up faster than the transmission in a cold
climate now is it? As I said before: Cold Radiator + Cold ATF = Cold ATF

>
>
> > ATF stays viscous well below 0 F. Unless you've figured out some magic
way
> > to cool it down that much when the ambient air temperature 32 or above
you
> > CAN'T get the fluid cold enough to stop working. How many times have
you
> > seen tranny failure due to overcooling?
>
>
> I am not saying that the trans fluid will be a problem I am saying that
the
> internal clearances will be reduced and cause friction and accelerated
wear

I've driven AT vehicles in -20 F air temp weather and never had a problem.
When you put it in D they go. Obviously the ATF was flowing and
lubricating just fine. The only time I've ever had a problem was at -50 F
in Fairbanks AK. Put'er in D and nothing. That's pretty extreme and
certainly 98% of the vehicles in the lower 48 will never see that temp.

>
> > According to the instructions on my cooler it states that behind the
> > radiator is the LAST choice for mounting.
>
> Correct, when used in conjunction with an in radiator cooler

No, regardless of whether or not a radiator cooler is being used, the
aftermarket cooler will only operate at 60% of it's rated cooling
efficiency when mounted behind the radiator.

>
> > > a little too much on the low side.
> >
> > What's the "low side?"
>
>
> Less then designed operating temp. like when some people remove the
thermostat
> from their engine and find it runs at about 160,( 20-40 degs below
designed temp
> range)
>

Operating an engine at below the designed operating temp results in poor
driveability not decreased lubricating ability.

>
> > If you have a radiator cooler.
>
> I would think that the cooler manufactures are assuming that you already
have an
> in radiator cooler and because you are going to tow a heavy load or have
a lot
> of extra weight in the bed, you will be putting an extra load on the
trans which
> will warm the trans up more then desirable, thus the recommendation to
add a
> cooler.
>

The transmission cooler manufacturers also know and state in the
instructions that an aux trans cooler won't overcool the trans in the
winter. Why, because it's ALMOST impossible!

>
>
> > Yes they work the same way as engine tstats. When the tranny gets too
hot
> > they allow the fluid to circulate through the cooling element. I think
if
> > you checked you'd find that the tstat opens very quickly and stays open
99%
> > of the time.
>
>
> I doubt that!
>

But maybe you'd better check it out.

>
> >
> > Unless the OEM radiator is shot why waste the money on a new rad when
an
> > aftermarket unit will work better and save money?
>
>
> Like I said in my original post: If the rad is in good shape bring it to
a rad
> shop and have an in radiator cooler added. Won't cost much and would give
me
> peace of mind.
>

If you're already taking the rad to a shop sure check it out, maybe the
price will be comparable. But the lines still have to be fabbed, etc. If
the rad is good buy a good aftermarket cooler and slap it in. You'll be
just fine!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:05:12 -0400
From: Joe DeLaurentis
Subject: 66-77 Bronco P/S

Heres a post somebody might be able to use..I'm cleaning out the
garage and I have a FACTORY 1975 Bronco Powers steering box and the
2 piece steering shafts..this is a hard piece to come by if someone
knows somebody that can use it I will sell it pretty reasonable
- --
Joe
Aka. Fordguy
1968 F-100 4x4 302 Np435 Bone Stock down to the wheel covers
1970 F-250 4x4 390 Np435 The Beast
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://web.p3.net/~shoman

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:02:10 -0500
From: Brian
Subject: Re: Antique insurance for trucks

Well I guess I'm fortunate to live in Minnesota. I've got my '64
F100 fully insured for only 218.oo per year. Its covered to $4000.00 as
it sits. I haven't done the bodywork yet so its basically just covering
the engine (460). My company is American Family, and I know there nation
wide.

Brian

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:05:30 -0700....

---

To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts

Registration is free, easy and gives you access to more features.
If you are not registered, click here to register.
If you are already registered, you can login here.

If you are already logged in and are seeing this message, your web browser is blocking session cookies. Change your browser cookie settings to allow session cookies.