fordtrucks61-79-digest Sunday, April 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 200



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: Bed time (floor replacement)...Finishes [Randy Collins
Track Bar Bushings [mr spock ]
VIN Decoding [Dan Koster ]
Colo. Parts Availability [DGood23567 ]
ADMIN: Article request, T-shirt and web site updates [Ken Payne
Re: VIN Decoding [Ractrk002 ]
Onboard Air ["Deacon" ]
Check out Tony Marino's '78 F150 [Ken Payne ]
Aluminum Heads ["PAUL MONTY" ]
ADMIN: March archives online [Ken Payne ]
63ford [Kevin Vaughan ]
Small block to FE conversion [Mike Schwall ]
Re: Check out Tony Marino's '78 F150 [Tony Marino ]
Re: Aluminum Heads ["Deacon" ]
352 Rebuild Questions ["Brian Forbes" ]
Re: 352 Rebuild Questions [marko ]
Hub O-ring ["Dave Walbeck" ]
Re: 352 Rebuild Questions ["Deacon" ]

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Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 06:21:12 -0800
From: Randy Collins
Subject: Re: Bed time (floor replacement)...Finishes

At 10:51 PM 3/30/98 -0800, Randy Collins wrote:
>My choice would be an oil of some sort. Probably the best is just plain
>old tung oil. The oil finish will require more maintenance than the clear
>film build type finish but the big advantage is that when it gets tired it
> will simply fade away. Ever seen what a failing clear finish looks
>like. When they delaminate they turn white or cloudy. It's not very
>attractive.

Then Kurt Albershardt wrote:

My Grandfather used to use a mixture of 50% linseed oil and 50% turpentine
on just about everything. Still outperforms most anything you can buy,
IMHO.

I replied:

Good advice Kurt! The linseed oil finish is an inexpensive old fashioned
trick that still performs satisfactorily.

This old time mixture will perform similar to the tung oil finish. I have
seen it modified even further buy adding oil (diesel fuel or motor oil)
sometimes stain is added and you can even ad small portion of varnish or
alkyd resin. The disadvantage to this mix is dry time. It never really
dries. The function of the turpentine (I use mineral spirits read that
paint thinner) is to get some of the sticky linseed oil to penetrate the
wood. I would recommend this type of finish on something that is used for
work. Use it only if function is a priority. If looks are important to
you the sticky finish might not appeal to you. By the way the linseed
mixture is probably the best way to rejuvenate those old shovel handles.

For most wood beds I think the best choices are the tung oil or the spar
varnish depending on the owners needs and the end use of the vehicle. For
show or one that is kept in a covered dry environment a urethane system is
the way to go.

Later,

Randy Collins
Boise, Idaho
rcollins micron.net

1975 Ford F250 4WD Supercab "Muscle Truck"
460 SUPER COBRA JET
Short Block Completed...Heads Sitting on the work bench!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 09:19:47 -0700
From: mr spock
Subject: Track Bar Bushings

The track bar bushings in my 78F150 4x4 were shot, so the mechanic
ordered a new one. It was still loose even after fitting the new
bushing. Conclusion was that the track bar itself was worn out-and no
longer available (or at least tough to get). Solution: Cut the sleeve,
take a hammer to it to shrink it down, then weld it back up. The new
bushing is now a tight fit.

Anyone heard of this sort of repair? Seems to work fine, but I wonder
about the strength of the track bar in off road situations.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:09:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Dan Koster
Subject: VIN Decoding

Hello everyone. I need some help decoding the VIN on my '63 F100.

Under 'tranny' it has either a 'F' or a 'J'.

Under 'axle' it has a '12'.

Please let me know as soon as possible.

Thanks,

Dan
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 14:24:00 EST
From: DGood23567
Subject: Colo. Parts Availability

Been lurkin' for awhile, great list, fantastic knowledge base.

I recently became the proud owner of a '74 F250 Ranger XLT 2WD, 390 4v, w/85K
orig. miles. Doesn't "need" much more than TLC, but will be doing some engine
work and other minor repairs as $ (and the other half) allow.

Problem is - I need to find some good salvage/bone yards in the Colorado Front
Range area that have some 73-79 F series. I called a few places but was told
it had been awhile since they had any "early" ford trucks. EARLY? These
babies are just getting broke in! Any help from you Colorado FTEs?

Dale G
Lafayette, CO

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 15:35:19 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: Article request, T-shirt and web site updates

Work on the T-shirt is underway again. I would like
to ask members to send in pictures of their trucks
for the design. All years wanted! We want to
represent as many eras as possible. Must be stock or
near stock "appearance" (lowered within reason is okay),
no offense meant to modified owners but the T-shirt
will be a "historial" picture. Send your photo as a
JPG formated image (set image quality to highest
setting) to kpayne mindspring.com or snail mail it to:

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
T-Shirt Photo
PO Box 422
Lilburn, GA 30048

Those whose trucks we use will get a free T-shirt. If
we choose your truck, we will email a release to you.
Simply return it with your permission. Release will
cover you as well as us. Proceeds, as usual, will go
to fund the web site and lists. We also hope to expand
the mailings if proceeds allow.

The following updates have been made to the web site:

1. All pictorial pages reformated with a better layout.
2. 1960-1966, 1973-1979, 1980-1986, 1987-1996 and 1997+
pictorial pages have additions
3. Several new articles added to the articles page

I would like to ask list members to send in any articles.
It doesn't have to be fancy. If you can write a guide
detailing something you've done to your truck, from
installing a K&N filter on a 1997 F150 to installing a
new cam in a 302, its wanted. Since we have all skill
levels represented on the lists articles of all skill
levels are useful. As with all the articles, you keep
the copyright (I add a notice saying you're the copyright
holder and people need your permission to republish it).

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

PS. I almost have the free web space script working. Should be
up next weekend.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:39:41 EST
From: Ractrk002
Subject: Re: VIN Decoding

According to my book you have 4.11 rearend.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:18:22 -0800
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Onboard Air

I came across a how to install an onboard air compressor using a York
compressor.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.off -road. com /jeep/tech/body/york/


Deacon
deconblu gte.net
==============================================================
Early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese
==============================================================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 20:50:57 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Check out Tony Marino's '78 F150

Forward for: "Deacon"
>From: Tony Marino
>Boy are you in luck!!!
>
>I have a 1972 AM/FM radio with wood trim (held on by the knobs, so it
can
>be taken off to only be the black plastic), plastic holding piece (part
>that srews it into the dash) and it works to boot!
>
>Beautiful condition.
>
>Lemme' know if ya' want it.
>
>Tony
>tony pscico.com
>www.pscico.com/~tony

Hey all you hard luck cases out there. Check out HomeBoys '78 F150
at his site. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony/trucks.html For all you that
what to go right to the real nitty gritty! This boy is wack and his
truck's the bomb! (It's OK Tony. I'm a Californian. These are all good
things!) :)
No joke people! In the past year the things that have happened with
Tony's truck would have discouraged the Hard core of Hard cores! I won't
say what's happened because it's too good reading the story on his page!
I'll never bitch again when a plug falls off a vacuum port on my carb
and my gas mileage goes to crap and it don't have any power.
I like the '73 grill you put on your '78 and the bed that was on it
was cool too! Was the bed a stock flat bed? It doesn't look like it was.
I like the way it didn't stick out wider than the cab. I'd like to see
some other angles to get an idea on how I can have one on my truck. I
want to build one so it will be the way I want it. How did you cut the
frame to make it a short bed?
Anyway Tony, you have some nice trucks. Thanks for sharing your
story. With everything that's happened with your '78, you'll never be
able to sell it and if anything else happens to it, you'd never be able
to not fix it again!
Later!


Deacon
deconblu gte.net
==============================================================
Early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese
==============================================================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:12:21 -0800
From: "PAUL MONTY"
Subject: Aluminum Heads

Hi, Paul from CA here. I lurk alot on this list and I've made a few posts
and individual communications with a couple of you guys. When I saw the
dialogue on aluminum heads I thought I'd share my recent experiences. Just
bought a pair of Edelbrock Performer RPM heads for my '71 F-250, 390. Have
had the truck since I bought it new at 18. Racked up but 90K in those 27
years. Only engine work was a valve job in '79, at 49K when I had
stainless 2.09 valves put in. CA just relaxed their smog stuff for pre'73
vehicles and I've finally been freed to play.

Bought some cast-iron 406 manifolds that a guy (professional welder) had
modified to fit his own F-250 but then sold the truck sans the motor. Got
them for a ridiculous $60 because the right side modification (changed the
dump-off from straight down to out the back, much like the stock 390
configuration) killed their restoration value. A few weeks ago I went to
pull the stock manifolds that suffocate the FE only to break one of the
studs off flush with the heads. Soaked, tapped, soaked, and warmed-up the
block and the darn thing still broke. Turned out to be serendipity because
when I pulled the head I found that my exhaust valves had recessed
themselves about .125 into their seats. When I had the heads done in '79
installing hardened valve seats wasn't something that was done.

Instead of opting to plunk several hundred into my stock FE heads I chose
to pursue my
long-awaited dream of tweaking the 390. Still waiting on new head bolts
(both Edelbrock
ARP are two weeks back-ordered at Summit and PAW suppliers). Got stainless
bolts for
intake (also Edelbrock, but not the RPM version--I want the low-end torque)
and exhaust
manifolds.

As far as mods necessary to install the Edelbrock heads. They say that
they are direct
bolt-on and mostly they are. Since they are modeled after the 427 MR
configuration more
than any other, the intake ports don't allow as large a boss for the rocker
arm bolts and the
instructions call for you to grind a bit off their length so they don't
bottom. I took .200 off all
eight of them. Also, Edelbrock doesn't cast the intakes in exactly the
same location as the
stock FE heads so you have to break down the rocker arm shafts (it takes a
bit of time, but
inspecting them for wear and cleaning them is always good) and install a
.060 shim between
the rocker shaft stands and each of the intake rockers so the rocker
contacts the valve on
the middle of the stem face. Edelbrock says you can use valve shims and I
got eight of them
with an i.d. of .875 from my local Napa outlet. The rocker shafts measured
what they should
at .843.

All that's done. Now I await the head bolts, which Summit says are
scheduled in this Monday.
BTW, both heads weigh 57lbs. assembled, as opposed to 48.5lbs. for each
cast head.

I hope I haven't bored you guys. I'll post more as things develop.

Paul Monty

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 21:31:22 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: March archives online

March digest archives are now on the web site.

Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 22:18:59 +0000
From: Kevin Vaughan
Subject: 63ford

need steer column 3 speed tree what years will fit?63f100 223 -6 banger.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 21:34:11 -0600
From: Mike Schwall
Subject: Small block to FE conversion

I'm not too familiar with the FE series engines, so I would like some input
from the list about an engine swap. I would like to know what I need to
change/modify to swap a 302 w/C6 to a 390 FE in an '84 F150.

Thanks,

Mike



_____________________________________________

Email: mikes intx.net
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes
Ford Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes/fordarea.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 23:24:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Re: Check out Tony Marino's '78 F150

WOW! About a week with the page and It's already got acclaim! My
first critic, I'm sure glad it's a good review!

Hey Deacon. Glad to see you back. I've been silent on here for about
3 months because I felt like I didn't have much to add over what you
guys cover everyday. You are all great people.

> Hey all you hard luck cases out there. Check out HomeBoys '78 F150
> at his site. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony/trucks.html For all you that
> what to go right to the real nitty gritty! This boy is wack and his
> truck's the bomb! (It's OK Tony. I'm a Californian. These are all good
> things!) :)

You remind me of a co-worker named Andre. Get the picture? Ha ha
ha. I understand every ebonical word!

> No joke people! In the past year the things that have happened with
> Tony's truck would have discouraged the Hard core of Hard cores! I won't
> say what's happened because it's too good reading the story on his page!
> I'll never bitch again when a plug falls off a vacuum port on my carb
> and my gas mileage goes to crap and it don't have any power.

You know, sometimes you have to realize that God does have a sence of
humor! I only listed the major things too. The day I put the new
engine in, I went to my friends house about 30min drive away, and it
crapped out on the expressway! Alternator wasn't working, and just
pulled the battery down to where I had no spark any longer. Thanks to
some kind souls watching me push it down the next exit ramp, I was
able to have them re-charge my battery enough to get me to my friends
house. I have many more TRUE things to add to my page, It is rough as
we speak, so check in every week or two and see what's been done.
I'll have my shortbed conversion pictures up in a few days. (atleast
what I have)

> I like the '73 grill you put on your '78 and the bed that was on it
> was cool too! Was the bed a stock flat bed? It doesn't look like it was.

The bed was far from stock. (I really didn't like it to tell you the
truth) but let me say one thing... IT WAS HEAVY!!! The floor was 12x2
oak! This thing was built to last! (made nice tractor and car ramps!)
8-)

> I like the way it didn't stick out wider than the cab. I'd like to see
> some other angles to get an idea on how I can have one on my truck. I
> want to build one so it will be the way I want it. How did you cut the
> frame to make it a short bed?

Actually, part of the deal with getting the shortbed was getting his
shortbed frame, so I had to retrofit most of my stuff (a few
crossmembers and things because mine were in better shape) and just
took it to get blasted and painted. I unfortunately don't have any
other angles of the bed to show you, my film that I had of when I
first got the truck (had a ranger (small truck) brushbar welded on
the front, and a lightbar) were unfortunatly ruined. That was the
only picture that remained except for one, which was when I hauled the
bed back from PA. (did I mention the clutch wouldn't disengage on
that trip?!! (ever drive a np435 with no clutch?) Ha ha ha..I laugh
about it as I type! Boy did I get a lemon) I'll see if I can dig
it up and put it on my page too! Keep watch. I'll do some proofing
and add pictures soon.

> Anyway Tony, you have some nice trucks. Thanks for sharing your
> story. With everything that's happened with your '78, you'll never be
> able to sell it and if anything else happens to it, you'd never be able
> to not fix it again!

I hear that! I'm planning on dying with this truck. (hopefully not
IN it!) Your right though, if you don't get out early, It's like an
addiction. I started guessing at what would go bad next. But the
honest truth is, I love it, and I'd do it all over again... Hell, I am!

Thanks a lot guy!

Tony
tony pscico.com
www.pscico.com/~tony

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 20:52:00 -0800
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: Aluminum Heads

- -----Original Message-----
From: PAUL MONTY
Date: Saturday, April 04, 1998 6:24 PM

>Hi, Paul from CA here. I lurk alot on this list

Hi Paul! This is where I hang with with my Homies. Rappin' bout our
hoopedies and sheet. You know man, it's like my Hood, Bra!

>Have had the truck since I bought it new at 18.

Man Bra! Your Daddy rich? Only thing new I got at 18 was a probation
officer! Hey, it was all a misunderstanding. I was just showing the
brother the knife! We wasn't fightin' man! :)

>Just bought a pair of Edelbrock Performer RPM heads for my '71 F-250,
390.
>BTW, both heads weigh 57lbs. assembled, as opposed to 48.5lbs. for each
>cast head.


Big difference! Along with your intake manifold you cut a ton of
weight. Is there a difference in port size? You sure needed to do a lot
of work putting them together.
Did you trial build your engine (waiting for your head bolts) Steve
had some alignment problems with his intake and I was wondering if
you've seen the same.

>Bought some cast-iron 406 manifolds that a guy (professional welder)
had
>modified to fit his own F-250

You said this before. What is the difference between them and what did
he do to them?

> A few weeks ago I went to
>pull the stock manifolds that suffocate the FE only to break one of the
>studs off flush with the heads. Soaked, tapped, soaked, and warmed-up
the
>block and the darn thing still broke.

I hate it when that happens!

>Turned out to be serendipity

You must have waited a long time to use that word. :) Think I'll
call you Columbus. He probably said the same thing to the Queen when he
didn't make it to the Orient!

>CA just relaxed their smog stuff for pre'73
>vehicles and I've finally been freed to play.

Smog Nazis, you gotta love em. I wonder if they have an ulterior
motive! Like their tired of having old carburetors all over the place or
their running low on smog credits! :)
Good luck Bro. So where are the pic's? :) Later!

Deacon
deconblu gte.net
==============================================================
Early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese
==============================================================
Deacon's
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 00:08:28 -0600
From: "Brian Forbes"
Subject: 352 Rebuild Questions

Hi everyone. My problem is that my 65 F100 Custom w/h Camper Spcl. is WORN
out. The stock 352 smokes likes its going out of style. I cant drive three
blocks without everyone thinking that my truck's on fire. The problem is
that its time for a rebuild, but I dont know if I want to rebuild the 352
or get a larger engine. I've been told that the 352 is rather expensive to
rebuild and I should look for a 427/460. I'd like to keep the original
engine in the truck since everything is still original.

So here's my questions.
1) Would a big block have the same bolt pattern as the 352? So I can keep
my NP435.
2) Would it be cheaper to build a 427/460? I dont plan on using the truck
on the strip, just to tow a camper.
3) How hard is it to rebuild an FE? I've done 302's and 460's.
4) Should I bore the 352 and build a 390?
5) What difference is their between the 352 and the 390? Besides cubes.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Later
Brian

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 23:53:47 -0800
From: marko
Subject: Re: 352 Rebuild Questions

Hey Brian,

>Hi everyone.

Hi yourself.

My problem is that my 65 F100 Custom w/h Camper Spcl. is WORN
>out. The stock 352 smokes likes its going out of style. I cant drive three
>blocks without everyone thinking that my truck's on fire. The problem is
>that its time for a rebuild, but I dont know if I want to rebuild the 352
>or get a larger engine. I've been told that the 352 is rather expensive to
>rebuild and I should look for a 427/460. I'd like to keep the original
>engine in the truck since everything is still original.
>
>So here's my questions.
>1) Would a big block have the same bolt pattern as the 352? So I can keep
>my NP435.
You can keep the transmission, but you will need a different bellhousing for
the 460. Also, I am not sure about clutch lever location, you know, the
thing bolted to the frame and the side of the block. Some other list
members have said this may be a problem.

>2) Would it be cheaper to build a 427/460? I dont plan on using the truck
>on the strip, just to tow a camper.

You mean a 429/460. The 427 (actually 425 ci, see John Smith's book Super
60's Fords) is part of the FE family.

>3) How hard is it to rebuild an FE? I've done 302's and 460's.

If you've done those, then FE's aren't much different except for the rocker
shaft setup. Get a SUPERB book, Steve Christ's "How to rebuild your big
block ford", you can get it at Internet Racer's Supply www.racenet.net or
netracer.accesscomm.net and it will answer ALL your questions plus guide you
real well thru the rebuild.

>4) Should I bore the 352 and build a 390?

YES. But you will need different pistons (obviously) and you will need the
crank AND RODS from the 390. 352 rods are longer. Otherwise everything
interchanges (well not the cam).

>5) What difference is their between the 352 and the 390? Besides cubes.

Some answers above. Rods are a tad longer. 352 has full skirt pistons, 390
has slipper skirts. Bore is 4.00 and 4.05 respectively. Stroke is 3.5 and
3.78 respectively. Valves are the same. Rods on 352 are approx. 0.010
LONGER.

The 390 comes with a much bigger smile than the 352, if you know what I
mean. The block is identical (exc bore). Except for some H.P. setups the
heads are the same, until about 1972. Truck 390's have typically lower
compression than the car 390's.

>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>Later
>Brian
>

Anything else you wanna know, just ask away. You could also build a 410!


marko in vancouver
marko helix.net


(I'm baaaack!) 8^]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 23:36:53 PST
From: "Dave Walbeck"
Subject: Hub O-ring

Hey Jeff,
You may have to give me a couple of days on the O-ring part #,
I've been really busy at my shop but as soon as I can I will post you
the #'s
Dave Complete and Total FORDNUT, Highboy Nut, and FE Nut too!!!!!!!!!

______________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 23:45:50 -0800
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: 352 Rebuild Questions

>marko in vancouver
>
>(I'm baaaack!) 8^]

Your weak marko! Your pathetically weak!! You held out longer than
me! :) I think Ken is putting some subliminal message in the FTE sig!
We're addicted marko. We need to join FTEA "My name is Deacon and I have....


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