fordtrucks61-79-digest Saturday, April 4 1998 Volume 02 : Number 199



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
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In this issue:

Re: Aluminum Heads [Keith Srb ]
Re: Aluminum Heads ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Aluminum Heads [SuperMagot ]
Was Aluminum Heads now Aluminum Water Pump [Keith Srb
Re: Bellhousing. (Was: Re: Boxing the Frame) ["JAMES MERLO"
Re: Bed time (floor replacement)...Finishes [Kurt Albershardt
RE: Was Aluminum Heads now Aluminum Water Pump [Sleddog ]
Re: 428 and 460 war [George Herpich ]
Aluminum Heads [ballingr ldd.net (WILLIAM L BALLINGER)]
Re: 2150 ["Dale and Donna Carmine" ]
Swaybar Mounts [BDIJXS ]
ADMIN: Recent posts lost [Ken Payne ]
Re: Bellhousing. (Was: Re: Boxing the Frame) [Don Grossman
Re: Fatal Error, Parts For Sale [POLING4 ]
Re: Fatal Error, Parts For Sale [Tony Marino ]

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Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 12:23:48 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: Re: Aluminum Heads

>If you mean after market heads, they usually have improved port
>angles and combustion chamber shapes. Aluminum heads require much
>more care in handling and torquing and are more sensitive to being
>run too hot than cast iron though so there's a trade off. Depends on
>your goals I guess. Personally I like iron...........
>

"are more sensitive to being run too hot than cast iron"

Sorry Gary, you lost me. Could you explain that a little more?

Thanks!


Keith Srb herbie netvalue.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.netvalue.net/herbie
Mesa, AZ
1986 Ford Bronco II, 2.9L (I HATE LITERS) V-6, Mitsubishi 5-Speed.
1980 Harley Davidson, XLH, Rebuilt from the frame up.
1974 Ford F250 Ranger XLT, Camper Special, 390ci 4bbl, Automatic, Long Box,
Style Side.
1966 Ford F100, 240 C.I. Straight Six, Model 1100 1bbl carb, Oil Bath Air
Cleaner,
Warner T-18 4-Speed, Short Box Style Side.
My Blood runs "TRUE BLUE FORD on Four Wheels and Pure HARLEY on Two Wheels!"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:28:23 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Aluminum Heads

> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 12:23:48 -0700
> From: Keith Srb
> Subject: Re: Aluminum Heads

> "are more sensitive to being run too hot than cast iron"
>
> Sorry Gary, you lost me. Could you explain that a little more?

Aluminum has a higher coefficient of linear expansion so tends to
expand more when heated than the iron it's attached to and with
(bolts) so if you over heat the engine they warp and once warped
there is only one fix, furnace straightening which typically costs
about $600 per head if you can find a shop that can even do it.

This process was developed to preserve expensive, rare heads like the
Jag XKE V-12 heads etc. and is only sensable for this purpose. Most
after market heads cost less than $600/pc so you just buy new ones.
You can mill the block surface but if it's too badly warped the valve
guides and other things will be affected so the head is scrap. By
clamping it in a fixture designed to put pressure in the right places
to straighten it and then heating it very carefully in a furnace they
can be straightened.

The bottom line is that the more heat you put on it the more
disparity there is between the two metals untill something gives and
since aluminum is softer than iron the head moves, permanently :-(

78 F-150, 2wd, 460, C-6, 235's
78 Bronco 351M, Np 435, Np 205, 33's
78 Lincoln Town Car, 460, C-6, 19.5' long!

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:35:46 EST
From: SuperMagot
Subject: Re: Aluminum Heads

Besides the possible negative impacts of two different metals and two
different thermal expansion rates, the positives of aluminum heads:

Aluminum conducts heats faster, allowing a higher combustion ration on the
same quality of gas (i think around a full point higher)

Aluminum weighs alot less(everybody should know that already!)

- - Mike

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 15:09:00 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: Was Aluminum Heads now Aluminum Water Pump

>The bottom line is that the more heat you put on it the more
>disparity there is between the two metals untill something gives and
>since aluminum is softer than iron the head moves, permanently :-(
>

Make me wonder how well an Edelbroke Aluminum Water Pump would seal
up against the block? Wonder how long the Gaskets would last??

Later


Keith Srb herbie netvalue.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.netvalue.net/herbie
Mesa, AZ
1986 Ford Bronco II, 2.9L (I HATE LITERS) V-6, Mitsubishi 5-Speed.
1980 Harley Davidson, XLH, Rebuilt from the frame up.
1974 Ford F250 Ranger XLT, Camper Special, 390ci 4bbl, Automatic, Long Box,
Style Side.
1966 Ford F100, 240 C.I. Straight Six, Model 1100 1bbl carb, Oil Bath Air
Cleaner,
Warner T-18 4-Speed, Short Box Style Side.
My Blood runs "TRUE BLUE FORD on Four Wheels and Pure HARLEY on Two Wheels!"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:12:59 -0600
From: "JAMES MERLO"
Subject: Re: Bellhousing. (Was: Re: Boxing the Frame)

Don,

I conclude from your excellent info that:
1)The T98 will not bolt to a bellhousing that was designed for a t18/np435

To reuse the T98 (that was attached to a Yblock), I would have to find a
FE block that used the T98 (if this ever was done). If anybody knows when
and on what models.

2)It eliminates the possibility of attaching a t98 to a 385 series motor
UNLESS:
1)somebody makes a transmission to bellhousing adapter (Advance Adapters
was stumped on this)
2)The possibility of drilling the T18 bellhousing for the correct 4th hole
is doable.

Did you ever hear that the T98 has a bigger diameter bearing retainer hole
(4.87") than the t18.

My overall objective is to reuse the T98 behind a 385 series motor. I am
wondering if I am barking up the wrong tree and if it wouldn't just make
more sense to get a t18/np435 and the associated bellhousing for the 385
series motor. I think I read on this list that Tom's Bronco's had t18s for
$300-400 (not to mention the lower cost possible from a salvage yard ).

I would appreciate your thoughts.

Jim
- ----------
> From: Don Grossman
> To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> Subject: Re: Bellhousing. (Was: Re: Boxing the Frame)
> Date: Friday, April 03, 1998 9:32 AM
>
>
>
> sdelanty wrote:
>
> > >I have been struggling with finding a bellhousing to mate the T98 to
ANY
> > >motor that was in production after the Y blocks went out.
> > >Please let me know
> >
> > Isn't the bellhousing for the T-98 the same as T-18 and NP435?
> > They should be readily available at the wreckers for almost
> > any motor You might care to use...
> > I *may* still have a bellhousing for a T-18 to 240/6, 300/6, 289,
> > 302, 351w laying in the yard. The honeysuckle bush may have eaten
> > it by now, but I could go look if you want it..
> > Where are You located?
> >
> > Steve
> >
>
> The T98 bellhousings are a little different than the18 and435's but
basicly
> the same, if that makes any sense to you. On the T98's one of the tabs
that
> bolt to the bellhousing is higher, lets see if this comes out right.
>
> o o
>
> o o
> This is the t18 np435
>
>
> o o
> o
> o
> T98
>
> You can get the general idea from this. The t98 bellhousing are drilled
and
> tapped for both styles. The 3 speeds use the same
> o o
>
> o o
>
> as the t18 and np435.
>
> Another little difference is that any one (bellhousing) in a truck made
> before 65 will have the mounts to the crossmember. 64 and earlier used
the
> 3 point mounting system for the engine, one in front, and one on each
side
> of the bellhousing.
>
> Side note some of the 65-66 4x4's still used the 3 point mount for the
> engine.
>
> I do not know if you can drill and tap a t-18 np435 housing for the t98
or
> not but I will take a look at the casting and see if there still is a
place
> for it.
>
> --
> Don Grossman
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://206.184.7.89
> ftp://206.184.7.89/files
>
> duckdon pacific.net
>
> 63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.
>
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 14:43:05 -0800
From: Kurt Albershardt
Subject: Re: Bed time (floor replacement)...Finishes

At 10:51 PM 3/30/98 -0800, Randy Collins wrote:
>My choice would be an oil of some sort. Probably the best is just plain
>old tung oil. The oil finish will require more maintenance than the clear
>film build type finish but the big advantage is that when it gets tired it
> will simply fade away. Ever seen what a failing clear finish looks
>like. When they delaminate they turn white or cloudy. It's not very
>attractive.


My Grandfather used to use a mixture of 50% linseed oil and 50% turpentine on just about everything. Still outperforms most anything you can buy, IMHO.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:07:21 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: Was Aluminum Heads now Aluminum Water Pump

never heard of any problems when properly assembled. the gaskets here do not have nearly the tough job that a head gasket has.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Keith Srb[SMTP:herbie netvalue.net]
Sent: Friday, April 03, 1998 5:09 PM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Was Aluminum Heads now Aluminum Water Pump


>The bottom line is that the more heat you put on it the more
>disparity there is between the two metals untill something gives and
>since aluminum is softer than iron the head moves, permanently :-(
>

Make me wonder how well an Edelbroke Aluminum Water Pump would seal
up against the block? Wonder how long the Gaskets would last??

Later


Keith Srb herbie netvalue.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://members.netvalue.net/herbie
Mesa, AZ
1986 Ford Bronco II, 2.9L (I HATE LITERS) V-6, Mitsubishi 5-Speed.
1980 Harley Davidson, XLH, Rebuilt from the frame up.
1974 Ford F250 Ranger XLT, Camper Special, 390ci 4bbl, Automatic, Long Box,
Style Side.
1966 Ford F100, 240 C.I. Straight Six, Model 1100 1bbl carb, Oil Bath Air
Cleaner,
Warner T-18 4-Speed, Short Box Style Side.
My Blood runs "TRUE BLUE FORD on Four Wheels and Pure HARLEY on Two Wheels!"





+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| List removal information is on the web site. |
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 18:23:42 -0500
From: George Herpich
Subject: Re: 428 and 460 war

am14 chrysler.com wrote:

> Gary writes:>> but the 428?? I think it was past the muscle era when
> that came out wasn't it? We were certainly into unleaded fuel by
> then.
>
> Not quite. The 428 was introduced in mid year '68 in CJ form in the
> Mustang. It would haul..................

Yeah, My fondest memory was watching the '68 Winternationals on tv and
seeing all those white Mustangs dominating Super Stock. I saved my pennies
and ordered a '69 w/drag pack and am radio as my only options, something
like $3500. That was October. I got my draft notice a month later and had
to cancel the order.George

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:07:20 -0600
From: ballingr ldd.net (WILLIAM L BALLINGER)
Subject: Aluminum Heads

There are a few advantages to using aluminum heads. As you stated, weight,
as OX stated, a higher threshold for detonation due to better heat
dissipation, and easier repair when something goes catastrophically wrong.
But there are a few disadvantages.
As OX stated, they are more sensitive to overheating. Sudden overheats that
would normally be forgiven by an iron head will utterly ruin an aluminum
one. Warpage and porosity failures are more common than with iron. Threads
fail sooner. Bolts will sieze easier, and require anti-sieze measures.
I myself don't care for them for street use. They, like headers, screw up a
lot of things for questionable advantages. For example, how often do you use
the extended rpm capability of headers compared to the number of times that
you have to restart your engine on a warm day under heat-soak conditions? If
the ratio is toward one end or the other then that is where advantages and
disadvantages matter. If you are in the middle, then you have to decide
which one you prefer by esthetics, sight and sound. Heads are the same way.
If the cost and necessary measues to ensure that they live fit your
lifestyle, then go for it.


Ballinger
Preferred Company
ballingr ldd.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:17:50 -0600
From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
Subject: Re: 2150

Hi Dave,

>Hmmm... That sounds like what I want!

The carb on my '79 351M is D50E BA. The previous owner said that this carb
came off a 302, but I haven't been able to confirm that yet. I believe that
the tag number indicates it's a 1975 model carb???? On my last trip to the
boneyard I found a '79 351M with the original carb and emissions decals
intact. I plan to go back and get that carb, I've never felt that mine
performs very good. I suppose because it's calibrated for a 302? I didn't
write down the jet sizes when I had it apart and I just sold my spec
book.:-(

>So, Dale, does your carb have a HIC on it?

No, I don't have the HIC. And I don't know if the HIC carbs were used instead of the PVS spark advance or if some calibrations used both??????

>Are the metering rods included in the rebuild kit?

Not in the one that I bought, it didn't have much but gaskets, clips, and the accelerator pump diaphragm. Long term I plan to dump the 2150 as soon as I can afford a manifold/carb.

Dale Carmine
'79 F-150 351M

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:42:29 EST
From: BDIJXS
Subject: Swaybar Mounts

About a week ago, somebody mentioned that they were retrofitting a swaybar
from another truck onto theirs, and the axle they were using didn't have the
little "nubs" to keep the mounting brackets from rotating.

I said I was going to weld bolts to the housing on mine to take care of it. I
think, instead, I'll weld a nut to the housing. Then, I can line up the hole
in the bracket with the nut, then install a bolt with lock washer....I think
it will make a cleaner setup...

Just thought I would pass this along and would be interested to hear how your
installation went....

Colorado Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 21:49:38 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: Recent posts lost

Due to a configuration error on my part, several emails
didn't get posted to the lists, especially if you use
a Microsoft email product. This has now been corrected.
Wait a few hours and if you post doesn't show up, send it again.


Ken Payne
CoAdmin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 19:43:40 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: Bellhousing. (Was: Re: Boxing the Frame)

JAMES MERLO wrote:

> Don,
>
> I conclude from your excellent info that:
> 1)The T98 will not bolt to a bellhousing that was designed for a t18/np435
>
> To reuse the T98 (that was attached to a Yblock), I would have to find a
> FE block that used the T98 (if this ever was done). If anybody knows when
> and on what models.

The T98 was put behind the 352 and some other FE's so one can be found but this will
not help in your case.

> 2)It eliminates the possibility of attaching a t98 to a 385 series motor
> UNLESS:
> 1)somebody makes a transmission to bellhousing adapter (Advance Adapters
> was stumped on this)
> 2)The possibility of drilling the T18 bellhousing for the correct 4th hole
> is doable.

I used to have an aftermarket 429/460 bellhousing that was completly flat on the
mounting surface so yes the hole could be drilled and tapped for the other hole

> Did you ever hear that the T98 has a bigger diameter bearing retainer hole
> (4.87") than the t18.
>

Yes, but I do not know if this would make a difference in all cases. Some of the
trucks came with either the T98 or the T18 during the same year they might all have
the hole for the larger bearing retainer.

> My overall objective is to reuse the T98 behind a 385 series motor. I am
> wondering if I am barking up the wrong tree and if it wouldn't just make
> more sense to get a t18/np435 and the associated bellhousing for the 385
> series motor. I think I read on this list that Tom's Bronco's had t18s for
> $300-400 (not to mention the lower cost possible from a salvage yard ).
>

You can find a t18 for alot less than $300-$400 in a you pull it dismantler or local
wrecking yard. An ask the guy behind the counter wrecking yard will charge you extra
for the NP435 but the price would be the same at a u-p-i.

At the same time you could grab the bellhousing to match. Often time the trany will
still be in the truck so you will have to pull it anyway.

> I would appreciate your thoughts.
>

Some time I think too much.

> Jim
>



- --
Don Grossman
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://206.184.7.89
ftp://206.184.7.89/files

duckdon pacific.net

63 F-100 4x4 with 3/4 ton running gear and most of the trimmings.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:20:12 EST
From: POLING4
Subject: Re: Fatal Error, Parts For Sale

Hey, I am looking for a 1972 AM-FM Radio for a F-100.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 02:15:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Re: Fatal Error, Parts For Sale

Boy are you in luck!!!

I have a 1972 AM/FM radio with wood trim (held on by the knobs, so it can
be taken off to only be the black plastic), plastic holding piece (part
that srews it into the dash) and it works to boot!
....


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