fordtrucks61-79-digest V2 #187

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fordtrucks61-79-digest Saturday, March 28 1998 Volume 02 : Number 187

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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: 2100/2150 carbs [sdelanty ]
Re: Fused headlamps [sdelanty ]
Spindle Bearings [BDIJXS ]
Going back original [ballingr

ldd.net (WILLIAM L BALLINGER)]
Re: percolating carb [Ken Payne ]
Re: 2100/2150 carbs [danadeb

pacbell.net]
Lookey What I found [Randy Collins ]
Sorry about that last post.... [Randy Collins ]
Re: Lookey What I found [danadeb

pacbell.net]
Re: Lookey What I found [John MacNamara ]
Re: Sorry about that last post.... [sdelanty ]
Re: Whiter whites, brighter brights! [sdelanty ]
Re: Sorry about that last post.... [John MacNamara ]
Re: Sorry about that last post.... [John MacNamara ]
Re: Going back original [ROSITCH

SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]
Re: Engine theory [Steve & Rockette ]
Re: Yay Ken. was screen intake gaskets, FT V2 #185 ["Deacon"
Cleaning out shop... ["Chris Samuel" ]
Mythical power producing screens. ["Chris Samuel"
Re: Physics 101 ["Dale and Donna Carmine" ]
Re: Cleaning out shop... ["Deacon" ]
Re: Yay Ken. was screen intake gaskets, FT V2 #185 [Mike Schwall
Re: Mythical power producing screens. ["Deacon" ]
Re: Power Steering (column) [Doug Neely ]
Re: Lookey What I found [Randy Collins ]
Re: Lookey What I found [danadeb

pacbell.net]
Screens ["Robert Harris" ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:07:23 -0800
From: sdelanty
Subject: Re: 2100/2150 carbs

>> Remember 2V CFM is not the same as 4V CFM they are measured at different
>> pressures. ( or something like that )

>Pardon my ignorance but...Huh??????????????

It's true. The 2bbl and 4bbl carbs don't use the same pressure
drop for their CFM ratings.

Can't remember, but it's something like 1-1/2" hg for one and 2-1/2" hg
for the other...
I'm sure someone else can fill us in on what the #'s really are and which
was which. I don't remember the specifics, but I know that comparing the CFM
ratings for the 2100 vs 4100 carbs is kinda an apples and oranges affair.

Steve

I love deadlines. I especially like the
whooshing sound they make as they go flying by.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:07:26 -0800
From: sdelanty
Subject: Re: Fused headlamps

>>> Steve writes: >>There's one fuse for high beam and one for
>>> low beam, so if one burns out You're not totally blind.

Azie replied:
>> I think the Original wiring on headlamps were not fused for a reason.
>> Seems there was a thermally operated circuit breaker type relay that
>> resets rather quickly and this was to keep from leaving you in the dark
>> doing 70MPH down the country road you aren't all that familiar with.

If You've got a short that would pop the fuse, then the headlight breaker
isn't gonna reset...
When these thermal breakers finally fail, and they do regularly, the lights
go off for 5-30 seconds before they come back on. Plenty long to get You
in bad trouble on that country road.
I've changed lots of headlight switches because of this, and personally
I hate the Ford thermal breaker and think it's plenty dangerous.

>> Point is ;; Are you sure you want to fuse your headlamps???? I would
>> rather have the circuit breaker, I think

I think fusing the highbeams and lowbeams seperately is at least as
safe as the stupid Ford setup. At least if one fails You can switch to
the other.

>The breaker is in the headlight switch.George

Yes it is, and I've replaced 5-6 Ford headlight switches with "flashing"
thermal breakers. The big sedans used the same switch...

Steve

I love deadlines. I especially like the
whooshing sound they make as they go flying by.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:32:02 EST
From: BDIJXS
Subject: Spindle Bearings

Hey, does anyone have a slick trick for getting the axle bearings out of the
4x4 spindles? Its real easy to ding up the machined surface while trying to
tap them out from the outside with a screwdriver....

Some kind of setup with a wheel puller, maybe from the outside to push the
bearing out the back????

Colorado Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:52:03 -0600
From: ballingr

ldd.net (WILLIAM L BALLINGER)
Subject: Going back original

The contiuing saga of the 65 F250 4X4 with the noisy FE of unknown origin. I
am at the crossroads on it.(Sing us that one, Deacon it's one of my
favorites)I plan to run this bullet until I can have what I want, an
original style 352 warmed -over. The truck has the original closed-knuckles
that have been serviced and have tight king-pins. A good, tight, and
slightly sweaty NP435, ditto for the Dana 24 T-case. It has a good (as good
as they can be)worm and roller steering box, and the original single-piston
master cylinder 12 in. drum brakes. The body is solid and almost free of
rust underneath, with nice Ivory Pearl white paint. When I get hold of a
Snappy I'll post a picture of it on the website. It's like driving in a
parade going to work every day, everyone waves.
The truck drives amazingly good, considering the lack of power amenities,
the slow steering(24:1) makes it manueverable, and with the addded
stabilizer it does well enough on the highway.
My decision to make, and I'd appreciate any and all imput, is whether to
restore it to perfect original, keep it drivetrain original, like it is now
except for the engine(which, when it comes time to roll out the long green,
I'll put aside for a 352 with an aftermarket cam, intake, and
probably...yuck...headers, I hate them for what they mess up, but they sure
do perform.)or modernize it with late-model drive train, steering and
brakes. Does anyone have any suggestions or experiences in this arena?
Does any one know what block and head casting numbers would be original for
this truck. It shows that it had a 352 originally I have a set of C4AE
heads, would these possibly have come in a truck? I've always thought that
they would have to have TE ie: C4TE or in my case C4TE or C5TE with a
casting date that resonably precedes the manufacture date of the vehicle. I
had a guy tell me that the AE heads and blocks were sometimes mixed in on
trucks. Does anyone have the definitive answer?
Also in the same vein, my NP435 wasn't supposed to be available until '66,
but according to our local dealer( if you can believe them )the trans code
matches the 435, he said that they were phased in late in '65 along with the
'66 grille, which mine also has. How can you distinguish the manufacture
date. Yeah I know, this stuff could have been swapped in and the counterman
could be wrong, but it makes a man wonder, doesn't it? Any experts out here?
I really would like to put all of this together and know what I have so that
I can decide where to go with it.
This list is absolutely the best list I've ever read, thanks to Ken and
everyone else who takes time to post. I check my e-mail alot more than I
ever have.

Ballinger
Preferred Company
ballingr

ldd.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:03:03 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: percolating carb

At 09:06 AM 3/26/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 09:50 PM 3/25/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>>Hey, I have had the same problem with my recently departed Holly and the new
>>and shinny Edelbrock. Almost the exact same problem. If I restart within
>>about 2 minutes, no problem. 10-30 crank like "mad". Anylonger than that
>and
>>no problem. And Drew is right, it is getting annoying.
>>
>>Don Grossman
>>duckdon

pacific.net
>>
>
>If I remember right, I think Ken had the same problem with his 67. He
>wrapped the fuel line with header wrap or something to help keep the fuel
>line cooler. That fixed his problem. Since it is starting to warm up here
>in AZ I am going to be doing that to my 66 and 74 soon.
>

Keith, I used header wrap and put 2 gaskets under the carb instead
of one. Instantly cured the vapor lock problems.

Ken

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:00:10 -0800
From: danadeb

pacbell.net
Subject: Re: 2100/2150 carbs

sdelanty wrote:
>
> It's true. The 2bbl and 4bbl carbs don't use the same pressure
> drop for their CFM ratings.
>
> Can't remember, but it's something like 1-1/2" hg for one and 2-1/2" hg
> for the other...
> I'm sure someone else can fill us in on what the #'s really are and which
> was which. I don't remember the specifics, but I know that comparing the CFM
> ratings for the 2100 vs 4100 carbs is kinda an apples and oranges affair.
>

Thanks Steve, I no it is true but didn't know exactly the reason.

Example:

A 600 cfm 4V carb can flow 600 cfm at a specific pressure, If you take a 2V that
is rated at 600cfm and measure the cfm, at the same pressure as the 4V, it will
flow less air say 400-500cfm.

Disclaimer:

I am a little foggy about this since, as deacon pointed out, I have deprived
my brain of oxygen. The numbers are for example and are not intended ar real
world situations. I would appreciate it if our resident flow expert could tune
up my example.

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:58:37 -0800
From: Randy Collins
Subject: Lookey What I found

Date of Posting: 3/27/98
Email Address: dragonsun

home.net
Description: parting out two 1966 corvettes both have 427's one is a convertible the other is a coupe I also
have many other parts for 1962 to 1982 call me at 1-619-466-9564 or e-mail me at dragonsun

home.net
City: San Diego
State: California

Later,

Randy Collins
Boise, Idaho
rcollins

micron.net

1975 Ford F250 4WD Supercab "Muscle Truck"
460 SUPER COBRA JET
Short Block Completed...Heads Sitting on the work bench!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:00:51 -0800
From: Randy Collins
Subject: Sorry about that last post....

I suppose it is kinda obvious that last post wasn't suppose to go to the Ford list. OOPS!

Later,

Randy Collins
Boise, Idaho
rcollins

pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Lookey What I found

Randy and chevy sitting in a tree K.I.S.S.I.N.G............;-)

Sorry I just could not resist!

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:36:46 -0800
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: Lookey What I found

Randy Collins wrote:
>
> Date of Posting: 3/27/98
> Email Address: dragonsun

home.net
> Description: parting out two 1966 corvettes both have 427's one is a convertible the other is a coupe I also
> have many other parts for 1962 to 1982 call me at 1-619-466-9564 or e-mail me at dragonsun

home.net
> City: San Diego
> State: California
>
> Later,

Randy: This is the same guy you sent me the email address for. I
called him up and he works for a corvette shop. he had an engine but
wanted $5000 so I passed.

Thanks and keep it up.

Molater:
John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:40:14 -0800
From: sdelanty
Subject: Re: Sorry about that last post....

>
>I suppose it is kinda obvious that last post wasn't suppose to go to the
Ford list. >OOPS!

Yeah, and it's too bad... I saw "427's" and got all excited for a second! (-:

Steve

I love deadlines. I especially like the
whooshing sound they make as they go flying by.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:40:17 -0800
From: sdelanty
Subject: Re: Whiter whites, brighter brights!

Tom wrote:
>I've been thinking about the same modification. Steve, what does the
>connector to the head lights look like? Did you use the stock 3 pole
>connector?

Yes, I used the stock connector and soldered my #14 wire to the
existing terminals. It's explained in some detail in the "whiter whites,
brighter brights" how to FAQ that has just been sent off for review.
It should be hitting a web page near You fairly soon...

Steve

I love deadlines. I especially like the
whooshing sound they make as they go flying by.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:50:06 -0800
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: Sorry about that last post....

sdelanty wrote:
>
> >
> >I suppose it is kinda obvious that last post wasn't suppose to go to the
> Ford list. >OOPS!
>
> Yeah, and it's too bad... I saw "427's" and got all excited for a second! (-:
>
> Steve
>
>
Sorry Guys: I didn't realize that Randy's post was on the Ford Truck
list. Gee I hope Stu won't get to upset. He seems to have this thing
against GM.

Sorry for the off topic foray. Hey it's Friday!!!

Later
John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:53:50 -0800
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: Sorry about that last post....

sdelanty wrote:

>
> Yeah, and it's too bad... I saw "427's" and got all excited for a second! (-:

Steve:

Yeah, me to. I have 4 in my garage( two Fords and two C***'s). Shhh!!!
Something about that "427" number gets me excited too!

Nuke Chrysler! Hey that's one I haven't heard.

Molater
John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:05:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: ROSITCH

SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: Going back original

Ballinger (and everyone else),
If you want to go back to the original 352, you can HAVE mine (provided
you live near the San Francisco penninsula-or just really want one bad).
As soon as I remove it (in about three weeks) it will be free to a good
home. It is all original with about 95,000 miles on it and it needs to
be rebuilt. I'll be taking the head bolts and accessory hardware, but
you have all that already. I have a fresh 390 to put in mine.

Good Luck,
Don Rositch
'66 F250

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:44:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve & Rockette
Subject: Re: Engine theory

At 03:06 PM 27/3/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Please don't misunderstand what I meant about the 289/302. Pound for pound
>it is a great engine. I had a very good running 289 in a '68 Mustang with a
>top-loader 4-speed. Great performance all around. But I have to stand by
>what I said for normal truck use. The 300 six is better for trailering and
>four-wheeling because of where the torque is, but the 302 does better at
>40-70 mph cruising. It depends on what kind of work you want fron it. A few
>more cubes can do both.
>

I don't know about more cubic inches being required to make a good tow
vehicle, I had towed lots of weight with my '57 (289/4speed), but I had the
right gears and tires, 60mph cruise at 3500rpm.
My Bro had a 68 3/4 ton C*evy with a 283 in it, it towed his race car trailer
with no problems.
When you think about it, a Cummins diesel is "small" compared to the loads
it's towing around......

Steve & Rockette...Lifes a beach
'63 F100 Longbox

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:36:51 -0800
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: Yay Ken. was screen intake gaskets, FT V2 #185

From: Chad Dailey
Date: Friday, March 27, 1998 4:43 PM
Subject: Yay Ken. was screen intake gaskets, FT V2 #185

>Nope. What it does is restrict the air flow into very small tunnels.
>This increases the velocity dramatically, and makes the airstream
inside
>the little tunnels very violent. In turn, the violent airstream breaks
>up bigger droplets of fuel into littler ones (better atomization).
This
>produces more heat per unit of fuel (assuming there is enough oxygen),
>which you see as more torque. Measure this across time, and you have
>more horsepower.
>
>Does that help Deacon?

I wish it did my friend! I've got this picture in my head of it
being just the opposite of your description. Not to be misunderstood, if
I find one, I'll try it. Cheap HP is a good thing! Not trying it because
I don't understand how it works, is a bad thing, a very bad thing! :)
Do they make them for 2V carburetors? They suck different than a 4V
you know. :) I went to PepBoys but they don't carry them. Where can they
be got?
Later!

Deacon Blues deconblu

gte.net
========================================
Truckin' , I'm a goin' home,
Whoa whoa baby, back where I belong,
Back home, sit down and patch my bones
And git back truckin' on.
========================================
Visit The Deacon Blues Homepage
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:38:47 -0800
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: Cleaning out shop...

She says...
"You can-NOT have any new toys until you get rid of some of the ones that
you don't play with anymore!"
There was that tone in the voice that let you know that... Well... this
issue is dead before it started!
"Why?" you cant stop yourself... Instinctively ducking!
With a calm that you recognize as the one just before the Hurricane, she
just looks around "Your" shop, not saying a word...
You look around as she does and you have to admit there is not a single
unused space in your toy shop.
You turn back to say... well... something. Only to find your self looking at
the best looking lady on the planet... as she exits your domain.
Unwisely you pursue the matter, "Sweetheart... I need a bigger shop, or at
least more storage space. I could use these shelves in the Mud room."
She turns, letting her gaze fall on the set of 36 in Swampers occupying most
of the floor space in the room. Never saying a word she continues on into
the house...
I hate it when she is SOOOO right!
Ever had that feeling?

I want some new toys! So...
I have a:
Superflow Flow Bench Mdl. 110 Low total hours, including the Manual.
FOB Portland, Oregon

Contact me directly if interested.

Chris
79 Bronco

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:40:22 -0800
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: Mythical power producing screens.

> A screen after the carburetor IMHO would have an opposite action
> than the claims. With the fuel atomized wouldn't it collect on the
> screen forming droplets?

Nope. What it does is restrict the air flow into very small tunnels.
This increases the velocity dramatically, and makes the airstream inside
the little tunnels very violent. In turn, the violent airstream breaks
up bigger droplets of fuel into littler ones (better atomization). This
produces more heat per unit of fuel (assuming there is enough oxygen),
which you see as more torque. Measure this across time, and you have
more horsepower.

Does that help Deacon?

Chad

So Deacon, if you actually test this on a flow bench. You will find that the
total Air Flow is considerably lower then with out the screens. This drop in
air flow contributes for nothing to the power output of the engine. This
reminds me of an old Gearhead saying: Nothing in, nothing out (applies to so
many things). If on the other hand someone wanted to fix the "problem",
without resorting to Band-ade's they would do one of two things: (1) Get the
correct Carb for the application. (2) Set it up correctly!
I'll guarantee that the correctly set-up Carb will run better with out
screens then is possible with a band-ade stuck in the system.

JTF
Chris.
79 Bronco

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:01:13 -0600
From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
Subject: Re: Physics 101

Anyone know how to figure horsepower given the vehicle weight and 0-60mph
time? For example, my '79 f-150 weights 4,000 lb. and takes 14.5 seconds to
get from 0-60. I'm also interested in the performance you are getting with
your engine/gearing combinations.

later,
dale c

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:18:35 -0800
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: Cleaning out shop...

From: Chris Samuel

>She says...
>"You can-NOT have any new toys until you get rid of some of the ones
that
>you don't play with anymore!"
>There was that tone in the voice that let you know that... Well... this
>issue is dead before it started!

>You turn back to say... well... something. Only to find your self
looking at
>the best looking lady on the planet... as she exits your domain.

What is my wife doing in your shop! And what does she care what you
have! :[

>She turns, letting her gaze fall on the set of 36 in Swampers occupying
most
>of the floor space in the room. Never saying a word she continues on
into
>the house...
>I hate it when she is SOOOO right!

>I want some new toys! So...
>I have a:
>Superflow Flow Bench Mdl. 110 Low total hours, including the Manual.

That's it? That's all your getting rid of? No space in the shop and your
getting rid of one thing and you can get more toys? Well that makes me
feel better. It wasn't my wife in your shop! :)

Deacon Blues deconblu

gte.net

Found them in the Summit catalog - they are called "Torque Plus" gaskets.
Get this: "Swapping your regular intake gaskets for Torque Plus gaskets can
give you up to seven ft.-lbs. of torque at 2,000 rpm, a 10 to 15 percent
increase in fuel economy, and better throttle response." Also says the max
RPM is 4000 to 5000 rpm.

All that and a neat Summit sticker for $30

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mikes

intx.net
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes
Ford Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes/fordarea.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:52:56 -0800
From: "Deacon"
Subject: Re: Mythical power producing screens.

From: Chris Samuel
>So Deacon, if you actually test this on a flow bench. You will find
that the
>total Air Flow is considerably lower then with out the screens.

Boy, that Superflow Flow Bench already came in handy. Guess you
can't get rid of it! ,,, Chris looking around the shop, spots the set of
36 in Swampers occupying most of the floor space in the room. thinking
"Nope, I'll need those" looking around he can't see anything he wishes
to part with, when a light comes on. "I know. I can get a storage shed
and move stuff into it. As I need it I'll bring it back complaining "if
I hadn't gotten rid of this, I wouldn't need to spend more money buying
another one". As Chris goes over his plan in his head the best looking
lady on the planet is thinking "I'll rip out his lungs if he tries that
stupid plan of his".
You never said what you would take for your Superflow Flow Bench.
She'll know if your asking a ridiculously high price that no one would
be willing to pay. Gez Chris! If I can read your plan from So. Cal. your
dead meat!
So how much for the heads and intake? Headers and carb look in good
shape! :)
Later!

Deacon Blues deconblu

pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Lookey What I found

Sorry ;(

I guess it should have read:

John and chevy sitting in a tree K.I.S.S.I.N.G............;-)

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:53:06 -0800
From: "Robert Harris"
Subject: Screens

Did a literature search. John B. Heywood, C.F. Taylor, David Vizard, Corky
Bell, John B. Humphries, Pat Ganahl, Smokey, Grumpy Jenkins etc. - in fact
have more than just a few pages of print by recognized experts. Found
absolutely nothing about using a screened gasket. Since this has been
around since Moby Dick was a minnow - along with screens heated and....

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