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Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 03:50:32 -0700 (MST)
From: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks61-79-digest)
To: fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks61-79-digest V1 #395
Reply-To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks61-79-digest Monday, December 22 1997 Volume 01 : Number 395



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
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In this issue:

1968 F100 driveline modifications. ["J. A. Knapper"
Re: 1968 F100 driveline modifications. [Firrer ]
Re: 1968 F100 driveline modifications. [Steve & Rockette
Re: 1968 F100 driveline modifications. [Kurt Albershardt ]
Re: Wiring diagram for 64 f100 [Ken Payne ]
carb heat;front coil springs for 76 ["THE PAVIES'" ]
Ford D series pic. [Ken Payne ]
Engine Paint Color [Chuck Brandt ]
Re: Engine Paint Color ["Bill Beyer" ]
ADMIN: Web pics, integrity and chat [Ken Payne ]
Re: Ford D series pic. [Don Grossman ]
Re: 1968 F100 driveline modifications. []
RE: dodge rods into ford 460? [Sleddog ]
Re: F350 Supercab 4X4 [Tyler Abbott ]

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Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 09:47:59 -0500
From: "J. A. Knapper"
Subject: 1968 F100 driveline modifications.

Can anyone give me the specs on an RV cam? I've had it mentioned to me a
couple of times as being a good cam to use in an FE engine. I'm building
a 390 for my 68 F100, the parts I've got so far are: 390 block(bored out
.030), stock 390 crank and rods, GT 390 heads and intake, and a 5.8L HO
holley 4bbl. I plan to use headers, the truck already has dual exhaust.
The truck has a 360 and C6 in it, I would like to leave the C6 in the
truck, but wonder if the 2 piece driveshaft is strong enough to handle
the extra power the 390 will make. I also have a 428 torque converter,
would it have a higher stall speed than the 360 one? Thanks


Jim Knapper
1968 F100
various other Ford bits
(too many my wife says)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:27:39 EST
From: Firrer
Subject: Re: 1968 F100 driveline modifications.

i think the 2 piece drive shaft will work for u i had a 77 and its problem was
the u joint
back by the chunk it would break the stock u joint every time when i would
give the old
429 with a 280 dur. cam but it would never break the center splines or the u
joint
finally had a different u joint cradel on the drive shaft put on it and an
over size joint and it took care of the problem the super cab truck had some
drive shafts in it
l8ter mike

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 09:47:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve & Rockette
Subject: Re: 1968 F100 driveline modifications.

At 09:47 AM 21/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Can anyone give me the specs on an RV cam? I've had it mentioned to me a
>couple of times as being a good cam to use in an FE engine. I'm building
>a 390 for my 68 F100, the parts I've got so far are: 390 block(bored out
>.030), stock 390 crank and rods, GT 390 heads and intake, and a 5.8L HO
>holley 4bbl. I plan to use headers, the truck already has dual exhaust.
>The truck has a 360 and C6 in it, I would like to leave the C6 in the
>truck, but wonder if the 2 piece driveshaft is strong enough to handle
>the extra power the 390 will make. I also have a 428 torque converter,
>would it have a higher stall speed than the 360 one? Thanks
>

Use the 360's torque converter, it will have a slightly higher stall,
the428's converter will have a lower stall. An RV cam has higher
lift than stock and a little more duration, not too much of either
however. Every thing else you've got sounds reasonable for building
a good solid run for ever type of engine.

Steve & Rockette...Lifes a beach
'63 F100 Longbox

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 09:50:01 -0800
From: Kurt Albershardt
Subject: Re: 1968 F100 driveline modifications.

At 09:47 AM 12/21/97 -0500, J. A. Knapper wrote:
>Can anyone give me the specs on an RV cam? I've had it mentioned to me a
>couple of times as being a good cam to use in an FE engine.

There are a multitude of versions from various manufacturers, but typically
they are medium lift, short duration grinds designed to produce a torque
peak very low in the RPM range. They usually run out of steam around 4500
RPM--no good for a racer but ideal for an engine doing heavy service in an
off-road or towing application. Lower RPM=longer life. More torque at
those lower RPMs=better driveability and less downshifting on hills, when
towing, etc., ensuring you stay in those low RPM ranges most of the time.

When you're shopping for the cam, ask where it produces its torque peak and
look at the torque/HP curves if they have any. If you see a curve with no
torque below 2500 RPM (not uncommon in a "mild" street grind,) stay away.
Look for a broad torque band starting just off idle and you'll have an
ideal motor for most of what trucks need to do.

On a related note, if your valves are too big and/or your carb is too big,
you can also lose power at low RPMs in an otherwise suitable motor.
Calculate your CFM for the maximum RPM you expect to see and add a little
fudge factor of 10-20% and you're there. If you have a 390 turning 4000
RPM you'll be sucking about 384 CFM assuming 85% V.E. A 500 CFM carb with
lightly ported stock heads will probably sing in this application, while an
850 double-pumper with big-valve racing heads will bog at lower RPMs.

I have a spreadsheet that computes alot of this stuff including gearing,
overdrive, tire size, overbore, etc. if you're interested. You'll need
Excel 5.0/95 or newer to use it.




>I also have a 428 torque converter,
>would it have a higher stall speed than the 360 one? Thanks

If it does, you probably want to leave it out unless you're going to drag
this truck. High stall speed convertors are one of the easiest ways to
make a truck incapable of being a truck, and it always amazes me how many
of them I see in people's project vehicles (and even in 4x4 magazine
writeups!)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:56:21 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: Wiring diagram for 64 f100

At 09:50 PM 12/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I just purchased a 64 f100 with a 351W , I am trying to find a wiring
>diagram for this year... any ideas?
>
>Thanks

Don't know if they have your year but I got an excellant
diagram for my 67 from Jim Osborne Reproductions (do a
search in Alta Vista). Its a good quality book.

Ken

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:21:49 -0500
From: "THE PAVIES'"
Subject: carb heat;front coil springs for 76

My 76 F-250 360 is missing the hot-air tube coming up from the exhaust
manifold to the air cleaner. A set of headers replaced the manifold and
I guess all that good stuff was tossed out with the original manifold
(I'm a SAVER so it wasn't me!). Anybody have any ideas how to get the
carb warmed up before starting? I have trouble keeping it running until
the engine is warm.
Also, the front end is sagging and I'd like to replace the coil springs.
Whitney has springs on sale for $43.95/pair. Any comments on Whitney
stuff or something better available elsewhere? Thanks. Jack P.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 14:28:21 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Ford D series pic.

A few people have inquired about the D series Ford trucks.
A small sample JPG image is on the web site:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/fordd-56.jpg

Ken

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 14:05:23 -0600
From: Chuck Brandt
Subject: Engine Paint Color

Hello,
I have a '66 Ford F-100 with a 352 V8. What color would the engine have
been painted from the factory. I have a '65 352 out of a Galaxie that is
gold, is that the right color for trucks too?

Thanks, Chuck Brandt

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:37:12 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: Engine Paint Color

- ----------
> From: Chuck Brandt

> Hello,
> I have a '66 Ford F-100 with a 352 V8. What color would the engine have
> been painted from the factory. I have a '65 352 out of a Galaxie that is
> gold, is that the right color for trucks too?

I know that Eastwood carries a lot of old engine paint colors. There are
several different Ford engine colors. They might be able to help you out.

You might also try this site:

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.autorestorer.com/home.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:54:12 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: Web pics, integrity and chat

Web Site Pictures
- -----------------
About 2 weeks ago I was informed by a member that another
site had taken several graphic images from our pictorial and
was using them on his page without permission. I do not hold
the copyright to these images, the owners of the trucks do.
I simply put them on the site for the world to enjoy. I do,
however, feel that I have an obligation to the owners of the
vehicles on the site. They need to know that I will not use
the pictures for commercial gain.

Whenever I have been approached by an individual concerning
use of the pictures I've always asked them to question the
owner. In this case no one was asked. The pictures where
put on a commercial Ford truck restoration page. I emailed
the admin, asking him to either remove the pictures or
get permission. I was ignored. Yesterday I sent another
email stating that if action was not taken I would contact
their provider (who has a strict policy against such things).
Today I got an email telling me I was hassling him and he
was merely trying to show what restored trucks looked like.

He did not offer to take the pictures off or contact the
owners. Instead, he told me that it was **my** responsibility
to get the owners in touch with him. I have contacted his
host provider concerning this and the matter is no longer in my
hands. If you have any comments, questions, or concerns please
email me privately (this stuff doesn't belong on the discussion
groups) at kpayne mindspring.com.

Integrity
- ---------
We skate a very thin line, as FTE isn't really a big commercial
site; yet it does have advertisers to support its efforts. No
one is getting rich from the web site (especially considering the
hours we put in to keep everything going!).

We will continue to offer the lists, web classifieds, chat, etc and
we will also expand our free services for the hobbyist/enthusiast
as advertising revenue allows. Since the beginning, Ford Truck
Enthusiasts has been a hobbyist effort. The members here come
first. Every time our income has grown we've increased our
services. In the beginning we operated through the generousity
of the members (thanks to Deacon for getting the ball rolling).
It is our intention to have the highest level of integrity
so that members can continue to enjoy discussion free of
advertising and editorial influences.

We started out January 1997 with one list, no digest and less than
12 members. We've since grown to 3 lists (4th comes on line
tomorrow), live and digest, with nearly 1500 members. It has
grown from 1-2 hours of weekly administration to 1-3 hours of
daily administration. Traffic has grown from a few dozen weekly
messages to over 1000 weekly messages. Who would have guessed that
a simple urge to talk with other truck owners would have come this
far?

Next week, another item may come up for a vote, depending on whether
a new advertiser joins us - giving us the extra revenue we need
to support the item.... don't you just love the suspense?

Chat
- ----
After the first of the year, we will be getting server side Java.
The chat page will operate using this. The IRC option has been
"thrown out" because we did some checking with users (as opposed
to "techies") and it seems that the average person has difficulty
setting up IRC. Peggy and I get enough questions on a daily basis
(80-200 emails daily, sometimes more) without having to deal with
the nightmare of helping people with IRC. In the meantime, the
chat script is now back on line until we have the Java engine
going. My apologies go out to those who have been eagerly awaiting
IRC (don't worry though, the Java applet I've got does nearly
everything IRC does without setup hassles). I've been wrestling
with this decision all week and I hope I've made the right choice.

If anyone wishes to talk to us online, one of us is usually on the
chat page around 10pm eastern time. Comments, suggestions and
questions welcome: kpayne mindspring.com

Wishing all the members a safe and happy holiday season,

Ken & Peggy Payne
CoAdmins (err, List Moms?), Ford Truck Enthusiasts

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:55:46 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: Ford D series pic.

Ken Payne wrote:
>
> A few people have inquired about the D series Ford trucks.
> A small sample JPG image is on the web site:
> http://www.ford-trucks.com/fordd-56.jpg
>
> Ken

Oh Yea! Those old things. Looks like an old F-C. I firgot all bout
them.
- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net


63 Ford F-100 4x4 67' 390, t-98, Spicer 24, Dana 60, Dana 44, power
steering, power brakes, and now ON BOARD AIR!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:48:04 -0800
From:
Subject: Re: 1968 F100 driveline modifications.

The two piece driveshaft in my 73 F100 has stood up to 4 years of drag
racing with a built 460 in front of it. It also has a C-6 with a manual
valve body, a set of 3.90:1 gears in a detroit locker and I run some Mickey
Thomson SS racing compound tires on the rear. This setup should really
stress the drive shaft but so far it hasnt been a problem. If you plan on
any drag racing type starts however you really want to have some kind of
traction bars to prevent axle wind-up. besides the obvious loss of traction
it causes when the axle housing rotates it also significantly changes the
angle of the u-joints. The combination of severe u-joint angle and
high-torque often results in broken parts.

The story on "RV" cams is a little different. RV is a relative term, one cam
manufacturer may call a cam with a certain set of specifications an RV cam
while another manufacturer has different specs. Also engine displacement has
a direct bearing on cam specs. The combination of duration, lift, and lobe
centers on what would be an RV cam for a large displacement engine (400+
in^3) could very well be a "performance" cam for a 300 in^3 engine. Cam
manufacturers often "fudge" the numbers to make their cam look better. (too
many enthusiasts still think more is better). So here's a few tips on an RV
cam selection for an engine of your size.

Look for a lift of .500 or less.
Look for lobe centers with a separation of 112 to 115 degrees
Duration should be around 205 degrees on the intake side and 215 degrees on
the exhaust side at .050 lift. (+ or - 2 degrees on either one of these)

If the place where you are getting the cam can't give you these numbers,
especially the lobe centers and the .050 duration, ask who the manufacturer
is, call them to get the specs. This is MOST important. Do not let the spode
behind the counter tell you "ahh shoot, they're all the same, ya seen one ya
seen 'em all"

Here are the reasons why.

Lifts over .500 won't hurt your perfromance but they can be hard to live
with in a street engine. The more a valve has to open the faster it has to
move to get there. Lifts higher than 500 require higher spring pressures and
unless you get high quality springs they will loose their tension sooner.

Lobe centers or separation have a direct bearing on the rpm range at which
the engine will perform best. At high rpm the intake and exhaust valve
"overlap" or are designed to be open at the same time (exhaust is still
closing as the intake opens) to a greater degree than in a motor designed to
operate at lower speeds. This aids cylinder filling at high rpm but it is a
definate detriment for low-rpm torque. A lobe separation of less than 110
degrees increases this overlap and will cause you problems with bottom end
torque.

The duration figures quoted above are measured at .050 lift. There is such a
thing as "advertised duration" that is a fall-out of the "more is better"
attitude I mentioned. Advertised duration is measured off the base circle of
the cam and will be much greater than the .050 figures. I have a two cams in
my garage with an advertised duration of 286 degrees. One has an .050
duration of 228 degrees, the other 220. The advertised duration for these
cams was meaningless. Longer durations aid in cylinder filling but as the
duration gets longer you reach a point where you have more overlap (intake
and exhaust open at the same time) with the subsequent loss of bottom end
torque.

Most of the large displacement Fords do well with "dual pattern" cams. By
that I mean cams with more duration on the exhaust valve than the intake
hence the 205 intake 215 exhaust figures I gave above. Unless you have done
some extensive head work, the longer duration exhaust timing will aid in the
"out with the old, in with the new" process. Provided your lobe centers are
far enough apart, ie. greater than 110 degrees.

Hope this helps. To those of you who can read between the lines, yep, I have
definately played the "wrong cam boogie" in my own engines before. I even
got a couple of spares around with only about 1000 miles on them.

J. A. Knapper wrote:

> Can anyone give me the specs on an RV cam? I've had it mentioned to me a
> couple of times as being a good cam to use in an FE engine. I'm building
> a 390 for my 68 F100, the parts I've got so far are: 390 block(bored out
> .030), stock 390 crank and rods, GT 390 heads and intake, and a 5.8L HO
> holley 4bbl. I plan to use headers, the truck already has dual exhaust.
> The truck has a 360 and C6 in it, I would like to leave the C6 in the
> truck, but wonder if the 2 piece driveshaft is strong enough to handle
> the extra power the 390 will make. I also have a 428 torque converter,
> would it have a higher stall speed than the 360 one? Thanks
>
> Jim Knapper
> 1968 F100
> various other Ford bits
> (too many my wife says)
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | List removal information is on the web site. |
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 18:46:11 -0500
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: dodge rods into ford 460?

would this be to build a stroker motor? there are many "kits" out there
now from lunati and crower, etc. to do this and all parts are supplied.
why go with seperate sourcing? is there some advantage?

sleddog

- ----------
From: Firrer[SMTP:Firrer aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 1997 10:41 PM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Re: Bout that carb!

Need a little help out their i can come up with a 351 black night motor and
was woundering if it was possible to put a dura spark dist. in it and and a
different manifold
on it dont have the computer to go with the motor
also has any one built one of hem 460s with the dodge 6 cyl rods in it
thanks mike






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| List removal information is on the web site. |
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+....


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