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Return-Path: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 03:50:29 -0600 (MDT) From: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest To: fordtrucks61-79-digest Subject: fordtrucks61-79-digest V1 #307 Reply-To: fordtrucks61-79 Sender: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest fordtrucks61-79-digest Thursday, October 23 1997 Volume 01 : Number 307 ======================================================================= Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe, send email to: fordtrucks61-79-digest-request with the word "unsubscribe" in the body of the message. For help, send email to the same address with the word "help" in the body of the message. ======================================================================= In this issue: speed calculator url [Sleddog ] Re: Shop Manuals ["Gary, 78 BBB" ] Re: FE intake sealing. was Re: Header for a 360 [marko exhaust mans [marko re:heater ["art l" ] Re: Engine Identification ["George Shepherd" ] Re: '78 F series dash pads ["George Shepherd" ] C6/C4/FMX [am14 Re: CDI Igintion Unit and Converting to Dura Spark [marko Re: Ammeter [DBrents105 Re: Brake question/Non truck [DBrents105 Re: 5 and 6 bolt bellhousing for 289 [DBrents105 Re: Plugs and Carbs ["deconblu" ] Re: Plugs and Carbs ["deconblu" ] Autolite 4100 [John MacNamara ] Ammeter ["Dale and Donna Carmine" ] Re: Vacuum Questions [danadeb Re: Header for a 360 [John MacNamara ] 351C bellhousing pattern [sdelanty Intake sealing [sdelanty Intake sealing [sdelanty Re: CDI Igintion Unit and Converting to Dura Spark [sdelanty '64 Spring Re-do Q's [sdelanty Re: Shop Manuals [GMPACHECO Re: 5 and 6 bolt bellhousing for 289 [sdelanty Re: Intake sealing ["deconblu" ] Re: exhaust mans ["Robert Mitchem" ] ======================================================================= ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:35:02 -0400 From: Sleddog Subject: speed calculator url hello all, i found a good calculator (microsoft excel) for speed that uses the transmission ratios and tire size and diff. ratio to calculate vehicle speeds. the effect of the transfer case can be added in by changing the tire size for example, a 33" tire would be 16.5 if the transfer case is a 2:1 ratio. it works with manual trans, but can only give an idea of speed with an auto trans as it doesn't take into account the converter slip. the url is for anomymous ftp: ftp://ftp.team.net/autocross/Axlecalc.xls hope it is useful to someone. sleddog ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 14:36:31 +0000 From: "Gary, 78 BBB" Subject: Re: Shop Manuals > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 08:47:00 -0700 > From: Keith Srb > Subject: Re: Shop Manuals > I called Faxon yesterday, about Vol 2 for my 74, and they told me > that they do not sell directly to people, they to sell to only to > business. Can you post their phone number again so I can see if I > called the right company? Thanks! I have a business card from them and will try to remember to bring it in tomorrow. Michigan roads, Broncos and Kidney belts, What a team! - -- Gary -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:24:29 -0700 From: marko Subject: Re: FE intake sealing. was Re: Header for a 360 >> From: sdelanty >> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:49:34 -0700 >> Subject: FE intake sealing. was Re: Header for a 360 > >> Yes, I agree very much with this. The stock cork gaskets can creep >> out of place either during installation or afterwards. >> The method marko describes here is the best way to go. > >I've had good luck with cork gaskets and brown aircraft sealer but >it's harder to clean off later when you take it apart again. I just >question the security of 1/4" of RTV with no support, that's pretty >thick? > The cork gaskets are okay if you haven't milled your heads, or anything. See, the cork strips are so tall that unless you have a brand new head and undecked block and nice thick headgasket, your i.m. upper surface (valve cover) will stick up much higher than the head valve cover surface and oil will seep there. Also, your manifold will sit higher meaning that the #$%* bolt holes won't line up properly. Finally, when you tighten the manifold down while it's sitting on a too-high cork pedestal, the sides tend to bend out and down. The silicone has much more give to it so as not to cause the manifold (particularly important with aluminum) to warp. Also, the RTV is very durable. The reason you let it set up some first (for an hour or so) then torque it down is to give it the chance to become a little hard, so when you torque down the 'fold it compresses somewhat. The fact that the sealant is thus under some pressure and provided you let it fully cure prior to startup, makes it a very good sealant. One final thing: you will want to do this right. If you let the manifold slip too much, or if you don't lay a perfect continuous bead, rip it off and do it again. If you have a broken/uneven bead, you will have a leak. Silicone is cheap and you'll have a whole tube of it so try to get it right. You will probably have to buy two tubes to have one thick nozzle and one thin one, cause you have to lay the thick bead first. marko in vancouver marko 71 f250 4x4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:25:37 -0700 From: marko Subject: exhaust mans Somebody said they had cast iron headers for a 390 for sale. Who was it and would they please let me know how much and where they are? marko in vancouver marko 71 f250 4x4 67 merc m100 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 13:23:41 -0700 From: "art l" Subject: re:heater George,Gary: I am not sure what drain would be plugged, I'm looking in my 78 service manual and it doesn't show a drain. Do you have any suggests how I would fix the problem? Thanks for your help. Art lutz 78 F-250 XLT Ranger > From: "George Shepherd" > Subject: Re: heater > Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 11:05:42 -0500 > Sounds like you have water getting in the plenum, but no heater core > leak. If you have a/c and the drain is plugged water can build up. > If no a/c the plenum is getting water from the outside. That's really true. My 86 cougar got plugged up and water ran inside all over the place and steamed up the windows as well as I recall. Michigan roads, Broncos and Kidney belts, What a team! - - -- Gary -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 13:49:47 -0500 From: "George Shepherd" Subject: Re: Engine Identification Probably wrong in this case a description matches a 292 Y block. - ---------- > From: Stephen_Heidt > To: fordtrucks61-79 > Subject: Re: Engine Identification > Date: Tuesday, October 21, 1997 8:43 AM > > > > > > > Stephen Heidt > 21/10/97 07:43 AM > > For: Jerry & Lisa > Subject: Engine Identification > The forth digit in the serial number indicates the engine size. "C" is a > 390. > > Later > Steve > > > +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+ > | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 > | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request > +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 13:51:11 -0500 From: "George Shepherd" Subject: Re: '78 F series dash pads JC Whitney offers a dash pad cover. - ---------- > From: Gil Mahoney > To: fordtrucks61-79 > Subject: '78 F series dash pads > Date: Tuesday, October 21, 1997 10:21 AM > > Any one have a ideas on a possible source for new factory type dash pads? > Seems they are discontinued by Ford. Looking for black. > Thanks, > Gil Mahoney > '78 F350 Camper Spec > +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+ > | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 > | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request > +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:45:28 -0400 From: am14 Subject: C6/C4/FMX I've always been under the impression that the FMX had the 'BELLHOUSING' seperate and the C6 and C4 both had integral bellhousings. Also was under the impression that the only difference between C4 and C5 was that the C5 was a C4 with lochup torqque conve rter. > One way to tell between a C4 and C6 is that aC4 has a changeable bellhousing. C6 doesn't. A C6 has a pan shape of a square with a 90 degree cut in the top right hand corner, if I am not mistaken. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 14:12:38 -0700 From: marko Subject: Re: CDI Igintion Unit and Converting to Dura Spark Ignition parts are so cheap for these things and since you never know what youre getting with used stuff, here's what you do: 1. stop bothering to figure this stuff out about the cdi. 2. go to your parts store and buy a rebuilt duraspark II distributor for an FE (352/360/390) about 45 bucks. 3. go to wal mart and buy a module box, I think the brand is "west", for 25 bucks or so. While you're there, buy a cap for a 351, a rotor for a 351, an adaptor for a 351, and wires for a 351 or a 400 or a 460. All the caps, base adaptors, and rotors are exactly the same for all distributors. Thank Henry Ford for mass production techniques!! Oh yeah, don't bother with the cap, rotor, and adaptor if your rebuilt dist already came with one. You might, just to be 100% sure, want to buy a coil as well. Get one for a 78 mercury cougar/ford ltd with a 302, it fits. 4. go to the wreckers and get a wiring harness in good condition. Take all the wires from the distributor and coil back to the firewall, and the wires from the dogleg connector on the firewall to the box. You may have to do a little soldering, but it's easy. Basically get as many plugs to/from the ignition box and distributor as you can. Make sure you get the white plastic connector that goes over the two posts on the coil. 5. Basically it all plugs together on your truck. Do you have a wiring diagram? Even better is one of those basic wiring schematics that is in the Haynes book (73-79 ford pickups) in the ignition section. Once you get all this stuff send me another email and I will compare with my truck and give you the correct color codes for the wires (don't have them quite memorized). marko ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 18:30:50 -0400 (EDT) From: DBrents105 Subject: Re: Ammeter The correct formula for measuring parallel resistors is R(total)=R1XR2XRn divided by R1+R2+RN. The number of resistors is not relavent and will give an incorrect answer. If you are really need to do this, let me know and I can walk you through the calculations and measurements to get exactly the amount of movement desired. BTW I teach electronics. Good luck with your experiments. Let me know if you need additional info. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 18:49:38 -0400 (EDT) From: DBrents105 Subject: Re: Brake question/Non truck Is the pedal hard to press? Sound like you may have lost vacuum to the booster. Did you check/change the vacum valve on the booster? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 18:55:04 -0400 (EDT) From: DBrents105 Subject: Re: 5 and 6 bolt bellhousing for 289 I am familiar with the 5 bolt/6 bolt thing on Mustangs. Early 65 models used a 5 bolt pattern. Late 65 and later used a 6 bolt pattern. I have never seen a bell housing that would work with both. The late 65 and later 289 engines share the same bolt pattern with the 302, 351W, and 351C. BTW there is also a "small block" version of the C6 transmission that will bolt up to these engines. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 11:50:43 -0700 From: "deconblu" Subject: Re: Plugs and Carbs From: Dave Williams > Deacon, Offy not only makes more than one spreadbore manifold for the >302, they also make one that holds *two* Quadrajets on it. > > Not as wacky an idea as you'd expect. The small primaries ought to >work just fine and the secondary setup is variable venturi so the >massive CFM overkill isn't a problem. From: John MacNamara > *****Yes, $202 at Paw, P/N: OFF-6010-DP**** Finally good news today! I've been sitting in a Jury room all morning, waiting to be excused from jury duty. Wore my best homeless suit (made $10 for putting fliers on cars :-)). Now I want to check on all these parts but I need to go back. Life in America! Thanks Dave & John, Already having a Q-Jet the price isn't that bad. I'll check out local place's first for a price. Well got to eat lunch and get back. Later and Thanks! Deacon Blues deconblu ================================================ Visit The Deacon Blues Homepage http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/ http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dragonfire.net/~site/tbirdknights/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 17:06:18 -0700 From: "deconblu" Subject: Re: Plugs and Carbs From: Dave Williams > Deacon, Offy not only makes more than one spreadbore manifold for the >302, they also make one that holds *two* Quadrajets on it. > > Not as wacky an idea as you'd expect. The small primaries ought to >work just fine and the secondary setup is variable venturi so the >massive CFM overkill isn't a problem. From: John MacNamara > *****Yes, $202 at Paw, P/N: OFF-6010-DP**** This is so cool. Good news is just flowing today. I was called for jury duty today and they just released me. Seems Court is no place for a sense of humor. But I got by and no one said anything about contempt! I've got to be me! Just got to be me! I'm willing to bet that much laughter has never been heard in that court room before! I need to spend the next couple of days tracking down these parts. I did find out that Chief Auto Parts carries high performance parts through their catalog. Thanks Dave & John and the rest of yous peoples for your insight and generosity! Later! Deacon Blues deconblu ================================================ Visit The Deacon Blues Homepage http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/ http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dragonfire.net/~site/tbirdknights/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 17:42:28 -0700 From: John MacNamara Subject: Autolite 4100 Hello everyone: While we're still discussing "spread bore" carbs and intakes, does anyone have an Autolite 4100 carb core out there he'll sell cheap. I believe these came on midyear Galaxies and the like. A previous thread had a gentleman picking one up for $50 and rebuilding for $20. These are supposed to be pretty good carbs but I don't know much about them. Thanks John MacNamara 78 F250 4X4 Supercab 67 GT500 66 Corvette ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 20:37:27 -0500 From: "Dale and Donna Carmine" Subject: Ammeter John said: >All the electronics theory that I've >had tells me that when you have two or more resistors in parallel; you add >their resistance and divide the sum by the number of resistors or legs, i.e., John, While your theory is absolutely correct, in this case we have spliced wire into the shunt. This adds resistance in series. 1+1=2. Thanks for your interest though. Is you ammeter working? later dale c ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 18:45:27 -0700 From: danadeb Subject: Re: Vacuum Questions Gary wrote: I agree with Gary ( bet he never thought I would say that ;)) you should reduce your idle speed and check the vac on the timed port. If it is still 4-8" then tighten the spring in your vacuum advance can so that you get o deg advance at idle with the vac canister attached. This won't change your spark curve gust when it comes in. This is where Gary and I differ: an engine needs more advance at WOT or heavy acceleration like 35 degs or so. At low rpm and WOT it needs less advance, like ( and this is an estimate ) 25 degs. At Idle it needs much less like 5 after ( yes I said after TDC, some "smog" motors are run from the factory that way )to 8 before TDC, more is OK but not necessary. A book I was reading recently indicated that you could overheat an engine by not having enough advance at cursing speeds. Another thought is that most carbs have an idle circuit then at a given rpm/vacuum the normal run circuit takes over. If it won't idle at less then 800 rpm maybe there is something wrong with the carb? Idle circuit plugged? Good luck Dana ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 19:56:54 -0700 From: John MacNamara Subject: Re: Header for a 360 Robert Mitchem wrote: > > After market Headers should be the same for a, 352, 360, 390, 428 etc. The > Hooker Super competition headers on my 390 and 428 FE have the 14 hole > exhaust bolt pattern so they will fit any standard FE head and the 390 GT > and 428 Cobra Jet head as well. > If you are interested I have a set of factory cast iron headers for an FE > Ford. They were original equipment on 406 and 427 Galaxies of 60-64. Robert: I found your original post and it says they came on the 427 Galaxies so this is the ones I'm interested in. I don't want the block hugging 390/428 manifolds as I have some already for my Mustang. I believe this is what you have, but you through me off with the "short" comment. Could you give me the Cxxx number so I can identify them as correct. Thanks John I > think they would work in an older truck. > ---------- > > From: SMOKEY5209 > > To: fordtrucks61-79 > > Subject: Header for a 360 > > Date: Sunday, October 19, 1997 8:55 AM > > > > I have been reading the posts to this list and think they are all > fantastic. > > I have never thought of posting until now. I hope someone can help me. > > I have been reading all the info on the differences between the 360 and > the > > 390 and all the similarities. I am rebuilding a 1970 360 and am in search > of > > a set of headers for this engine. I have contacted several companies and > no > > one has them. If the heads for the 360 and 390 are the same would a set > of > > headers for a 390 work? > > > > Also if anyone has any tips or tricks on rebuilding the 360 let me know. > Also > > any areas where there may have been problems. Will be waiting for your > > replies. > > Thanks again for a great list, and wealth of information. > > Ed > > +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+ > > | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 > > | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request > > +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+ > +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+ > | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 > | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request > +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:49:55 -0700 From: sdelanty Subject: 351C bellhousing pattern >> the 351C has it's own pattern except for *a few* 400's? How >> inconveniant... Interesting, I'll update my memory banks. (-: > >351C uses the modern small block pattern, same as 302 etc.. > >Michigan roads, Broncos and >Kidney belts, What a team! Uh oh, now I've got one vote for 351C having the same bellhousing pattern as windsor stuff, and one vote for not... Any tie breakers out there? Happy motoring, Steve Delanty Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an axe... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:49:57 -0700 From: sdelanty Subject: Intake sealing >> Yes, I agree very much with this. The stock cork gaskets can creep >> out of place either during installation or afterwards. >> The method marko describes here is the best way to go. >I've had good luck with cork gaskets and brown aircraft sealer but >it's harder to clean off later when you take it apart again. I just >question the security of 1/4" of RTV with no support, that's pretty >thick? Once the silicone sets up, it makes a very solid piece. It's really only about .200" thick or less once everything is in place. I used to use the stock corks with form-a-gasket #2 (da brown stuff), but I had a couple unhappy experiances with this. One of the problems with the stock corks is that if You ever have the head gasket surface milled (and hopefully the intake gasket face to match), then it makes the intake sit lower on the motor. This doesn't leave enough room for the corks to live, and they want to slither out when all is torqued down. When I built my 390, I used the silicone to seal the 2-bbl manifold down. It didn't leak. The heads had been milled about .015" on the head gasket surface and the same on the intake surface. When I swapped the 2-bbl for the D4TE 4-bbl manifold, I had a bunch of the stock cork seals around, and was nearly out of silicone. So I used the corks with da brown goo and a little silicone in the corners. All was well for the first week or so. NO leaks. Then one day when I got to work, I smelled that nasty burning oil scent when I parked. When I got home, it STANK and was burning lots of oil off the exhaust and was dripping oil on the ground. )-: Yep, the rear cork had slid out of place on the drivers rear corner. I couldn't see it, but a little probing with some wire verified it. I cleaned everything up and packed a bunch of silicone into the hole and managed to make it stop for 20K+ miles. When I pulled the manifold last week to do the edelbrock swap, I got to see what was up... About 2" of the end of the cork had squirted out of the gap. It had been fine for the first week, but eventially it got away. When I installed the e-brock, I used a 1/4" silicone bead, let it set until it was quite firm, put a thin layer on top and bolted down the goods. Let everything sit for 24 hours until it sets up good. I expect no further leakage. Also, the edelbrock instructions say NOT to use the stock corks, but use silicone instead. (like I really trust edelbrock these days...) I've used the corks with good results, but also had some bummers with them. I doubt I'll ever use them again. Sillycone be bettah. Happy motoring, Steve Delanty Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an axe... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:50:01 -0700 From: sdelanty Subject: Intake sealing >> clean hands to do this. I'm not sure how you get your hands clean >> enough to do this. >Wipe them on your pants, isn't that what every body does? Hmmm, maybe I need to quit wearing shorts when I work... Happy motoring, Steve Delanty Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an axe... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:50:04 -0700 From: sdelanty Subject: Re: CDI Igintion Unit and Converting to Dura Spark >I couldn't find a barnd name on the box. What little I know it is this. >There is a "black box" attached to the fender. Some wires go from black >box to the coil. I think, if memory is working, there are also some wires >going to the distributor, not sure though, and i don't have the truck at >work today so I can't go look. I do know that it is an aftermarket piece >the prvious owner put on the truck. A *good* CDI unit should make a nicer spark than the stock duraspark. If the duraspark distributor will drive it, it might be worthwhile to use the CDI unit. Definately ditch the points distributor tho... Happy motoring, Steve Delanty Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an axe... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:50:07 -0700 From: sdelanty Subject: '64 Spring Re-do Q's >My '64 F-100 1/2 ton CrewCab is in dire >need of having the springs re-arced. I plan on >taking it in to have it done. The bushings are >shot, allowing considerable shift horizontally >during turns! Very exciting! Yeah, even after I had redone the entire front end on my '71, it still wandered miserably. After I did the rear springs and bushings, it drives great. It's *amazing* how much the rear end "steers" when the bushings get shot. Happy motoring, Steve Delanty Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an axe... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 01:35:59 -0400 (EDT) From: GMPACHECO Subject: Re: Shop Manuals OK, I'll give it another shot!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:50:11 -0700 From: sdelanty Subject: Re: 5 and 6 bolt bellhousing for 289 >> I understand that ford made a bellhousing for a toploader 4 speed >> that would match to either a 5 or 6 bolt 289 engine. I need to >> verify years and models of Ford trucks this bellhousing was used on. >Somebody splain to me about the 5 bolt/6 bolt thing?? I thought >289's were made on the same block as the 302 or the 302 was a take >off of the 289 including the tranny flange? 289's were 5 bolt until mid '64, then went to the 6 bolt pattern we're all familiar with. Happy motoring, Steve Delanty Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an axe... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 23:25:16 -0700 From: "deconblu" Subject: Re: Intake sealing From: Steve > One of the problems with the stock corks is that if You ever have > the head gasket surface milled (and hopefully the intake gasket > face to match), then it makes the intake sit lower on the motor. > This doesn't leave enough room for the corks to live, and they want to > slither out when all is torqued down. Now the truth comes out, why the Edelbrock didn't fit! ", Deacon Blues deconblu ================================================ Visit The Deacon Blues Homepage http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/ http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dragonfire.net/~site/tbirdknights/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 20:16:15 -0500 From: "Robert Mitchem" Subject: Re: exhaust mans They were mine and I want $175.00 plus UPS shipping. I'm in Gulfport MS.... To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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