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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:43:12 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks61-79-digest)
To: fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks61-79-digest V1 #286
Reply-To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks61-79-digest Tuesday, October 14 1997 Volume 01 : Number 286



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
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message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: Ammeter Again [Tom Hogan ]
Re: Shop Manuals ["George Shepherd" ]
RE: Cooling system question [Keith Srb ]
Re: Splitfires vs. Champion Gold (FT#283) ["Kevin Fowler"
Ford Engine Info [danadeb pacbell.net]
RE: Cooling system question ["RICH ANZALONE" ]
RE: Cooling system question [marko helix.net (marko maryniak)]
Re: Edelbroke, FE, and me... a long unhappy story. [marko helix.net (mark]
Re: Tune up Ideas?? ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Shop Manuals ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Edelbroke, FE, and me... a long unhappy story. [John MacNamara
Re: Ron's Bronco ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Edelbroke, FE, and me... [sdelanty sonic.net]
Re: electronic ignition [sdelanty sonic.net]
RE: Cooling system question [Ken Payne ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:19:59 -0700
From: Tom Hogan
Subject: Re: Ammeter Again

>Dale,
>
>Sorry I didn't reply sooner.
>
>The ammeter is working well. No indication of overheating on the shunt. 1.2
>ohms is correct. Like I said it was MUCH higher than I wanted but the meter
>moves well with it (it should because most of the charging current is going
>through it!!). The only reason I can think of for the excessive resistance
>is high resistance at the solder joint where I spliced in the resistor wire.
> The resistor wire is an alloy (nickle copper I think) and I have heard that
>it is difficult to get a good solder joint with it. There may be a problem
>also with the bimetal joint (pure copper and copper/nickel). The meter
>doesn't run to full deflection wich may confirm another theroy I have that if
>the battery is in good condition it won't need more than an amp or so to
>recharge it fully after startup. My meter goes to half deflection at start
>and goes back down to quarter deflection after a few minuets. At idle it
>will go to zero. Of course if the battery goes flat and the alternator has
>to supply more current then the meter may do its imitation of a flash bulb.
> This is only a 'direction of current' indicator. I did not calculate the
>shunt value to be able to read the amount of current from the meter. Let me
>know how it goes with your modification.
>
>Good luck
>Tom H.
>____________________________________________________
>
>Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:18:48 -0500
>From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
>Subject: Re: Ammeter......Again
>
>Tom Hogan,
>
>How's the ammeter working? I followed your posts with great interest and
>was suprised that the thread didn't carry on longer. I still find it
>amazing that Ford built their trucks this way for years! Do you think that
>the shunt value could have been set up for 100 amp charge rate? I'm still
>looking for some logical reason why they did it that way.
>
>Anyway my meaurements basically confirm everythig that you did, your
>desciptions were great everything was in the harness exactly as you
>described, but I do have one question. In a reply to Daniel you said that
>you ended up with 1.2 ohms shunt resistance? That's a typo, right? I
>don't think that you could of got that much resistance if you built the
>shunt the way you described. Also if your shunt resistance is that high
>the meter movement in the dash will cook the first time you get into a
>'full charge' situation.
>
>I ordered a power resistor from Radio Shack and plan to bring the shunt
>leads out of the harness to a terminal block on the fender well. Won't
>look stock like your setup but I'll be able to get to it a little easier.
>
>Thanks again,
>dale c
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:02:00 -0500
From: "George Shepherd"
Subject: Re: Shop Manuals

What the URL for Faxon's web site?

- ----------
> From: Gary, 78 BBB
> To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> Subject: Re: Shop Manuals
> Date: Tuesday, October 14, 1997 4:07 AM
>
> > From: "George Shepherd"
> > Subject: Re: Shop Manuals
> > Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 14:33:14 -0500
>
> > Helm publishes the Ford factory manual-the ones the dealers use.
> > They have an 800 # and do mail order. I have bought a number of Ford
> > manuals from them and am a real happy customer.
>
> Faxon also has used versions of almost all of them, so if Helms
> doesn't have them Faxon may. They have a web site. This is where I
> got mine for my 78's.
>
> Michigan roads, Broncos and
> Kidney belts, What a team!
>
> -- Gary --
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:37:45 -0700
From: Keith Srb
Subject: RE: Cooling system question

- -----Original Message-----
From:marko maryniak [SMTP:marko helix.net]
Sent:Monday, October 13, 1997 10:19 PM
To:fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net
Subject:Re: Cooling system question

Snip

But it does!!!!

I hooked mine up wrong when I first replaced my heater control valve and heater
hoses.

There is pressure at the manifold fitting, and suction on the water pump
fitting. Thus, the heater control valve should be on the hose between the
manifold and the heater core. That way, when you close the valve, the pump
'sucks out' the hot water.

When I hooked mine up wrong, I had the valve on the hose between the heater
core and the water pump. Therefore, there was always hot fluid in the heater
core and pressure in it. This caused my defroster and heater to work
constantly in any position, even in summer. Very uncomfortable. Not to
mention that the heater control valve is built to take pressure one way and not
the other (tends to leak if you put it in backwards.


marko in vancouver
marko helix.net
71 f250 4x4
67 merc m100




Heater Control Valve? What is this and where is it located?

My 66 has hot water running through the heater core at all times. It just has
two hoses that run from the water pump to the heater core. Now you have me
wondering if my Dad removed something when he put the engine heater on the
Truck.

Keith Srbherbie netvalue.net
Mesa, AZ
1986 Ford Bronco II, 2.9L (I HATE LITERS) V-6, Mitsubishi 5-Speed.
1980 Harley Davidson, XLH, Rebuilt from the frame up.
1974 Ford F250 Ranger XLT, 390ci 4bbl, Automatic, Long Box, Style Side.
1966 Ford F100, 240 C.I. Straight Six, Warner T-18 4-Speed, Short Box.
My Blood runs "TRUE BLUE FORD on Four Wheels and Pure HARLEY on Two Wheels!"




+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:02:30 -0000
From: "Kevin Fowler"
Subject: Re: Splitfires vs. Champion Gold (FT#283)

Splitfires are a bunch of bull! There are alot of better plugs on the
market
like Champion, NGK, Bosch, Autolite, or AC. I have never believed any of
these hyped up commercials. So if you have the money to spare go for it.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Alan Mittelstaedt
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Date: Tuesday, October 14, 1997 5:20 AM
Subject: Splitfires vs. Champion Gold (FT#283)



>> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:01:51 -0400
>> From: Ken Payne
>> Subject: Re: Tune up ideas (FT#281)
>>
>> >
>> >..snip..
>> >
>> >> replace the plugs. What do you guys think about Splitfire Plugs? Are
they
>> >> worth the extra cost?? Would I be better off with the Champion Gold
plugs
>> >> for half the cost?
>> >
>> >Brett--
>> >
>> >I broke down and bought a set of S-fires for a 302 I had in a Merc, and
>> >a SAAB (Slob?) 900. Only the 302 fared any better, and in only one
>
>..snip..
>
>> The only really good way to test them would be to buy new Champions
>> and Splitfires and test them both. The response you got from the
>> Splitfires could have meant you just needed new plugs.
>>
>
>Agreed. The Champion Gold series were unavailable when I installed the
>S-fires, but I will probably be trying them in my truck, for hoots. I'm
>not gonna spring for S-fires again. Too little bang for the buck (the
>very reason I recommended the C.G.'s, or NGK, Bosch, Autolite, AC, or
>whatever).
>
>> I've met many a person who said "I put them in an it idled better,
>> milage increase and throttle response was better." Then I find out
>> they had 35,000 miles on the old plugs.
>
>Me too. However, I did it as an experiment, and I only changed one
>variable, the plugs. The Merc had a stock EFI 302, so fuel mixture was
>out of my control, and I left the nitrous disconnected (just kidding, no
>nitrous). I stayed with the same heat range plug (assuming that the two
>brands correspond) also. The plugs I replaced (Champion resistor style)
>had about 5K miles on them in the Merc, 3K in the SlAAB. The rest of
>the ignition system was also freshened at the time of the previous plugs
>in the Merc (new wires, cap, rotor, O2 sensor, checked timing) *before*
>the S-fires were installed. The SlAAB (another EFI engine) got the
>whole shootin' match with the S-fires, so results are not reliable as
>data there.
>
>Ken, do I make any sense now? I hope I am not sounding Altavozian!
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
>| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
>+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:42:14 -0700
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Ford Engine Info

This site has alot of Ford engine info:



http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.wrljet.com/engines/




(EGR valve? I don't no nothing 'bout no stinkin EGR valve! )
(Praise SB 42 )

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:45:17 PDT
From: "RICH ANZALONE"
Subject: RE: Cooling system question

>From: Keith Srb
>To: "'fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net'"

>Subject: RE: Cooling system question
>Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:37:45 -0700
>Reply-To: fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net
>
>
>Heater Control Valve? What is this and where is it located?
>
>My 66 has hot water running through the heater core at all times. It
just has
>two hoses that run from the water pump to the heater core. Now you have
me
>wondering if my Dad removed something when he put the engine heater on
the
>Truck.

Not all trucks have a heater control valve. It allows you to control
you air temp by the amount of coolant flow you put through your heater
core. In some cases it's just a open and shut valve for when your
heater is on or off. In my truck the temperature is controlled by
ducting. When the heater is on, air flow goes through the heater core
or partially through it depending on how warm you want it. When my
heater is off the air flow bypasses the heater core so it's not heated
up. The heater core still has coolant flow through it all the time
Thats why some people will put a manually operated valve in the heater
hose to stop the flow during the summer months.

>Keith Srbherbie netvalue.net
>Mesa, AZ
>1986 Ford Bronco II, 2.9L (I HATE LITERS) V-6, Mitsubishi 5-Speed.
>1980 Harley Davidson, XLH, Rebuilt from the frame up.
>1974 Ford F250 Ranger XLT, 390ci 4bbl, Automatic, Long Box, Style Side.
>1966 Ford F100, 240 C.I. Straight Six, Warner T-18 4-Speed, Short Box.
>My Blood runs "TRUE BLUE FORD on Four Wheels and Pure HARLEY on Two
Wheels!"
>


Rich Anzalone 75 F100 (390)


______________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:50:14 -0700
From: marko helix.net (marko maryniak)
Subject: RE: Cooling system question

>
>Heater Control Valve? What is this and where is it located?
>
>My 66 has hot water running through the heater core at all times. It just has
>two hoses that run from the water pump to the heater core. Now you have me
>wondering if my Dad removed something when he put the engine heater on the
>Truck.
>
>Keith Srbherbie netvalue.net
>Mesa, AZ
>
Keith:

My 71 has a sliding control, and my '67 has a pull knob, that both do the
same thing: they actuate a cable that opens/closes the heater control
valve. This is commonly known as the "temp" control. On both my trucks it
is located on the heater hose between the intake manifold and the heater
core, up by the firewall.
I think that on later trucks (73 and up) they put the valve inside the cab
rather than in the engine compartment.

Weird your truck not having one, maybe if your dad replaced the heater hoses
he didn't put it in. Do you actually have a temp control knob/slider and
where does the cable go from it?

marko in vancouver
marko helix.net
71 f250 4x4
67 merc m100

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:57:03 -0700
From: marko helix.net (marko maryniak)
Subject: Re: Edelbroke, FE, and me... a long unhappy story.

>Call them and tell them what happened. If they value their customer
>relations they should make it right. Mention that you are also a
>member of several web news groups/info lists and will make sure they
>all hear about it :-)
>
>Michigan roads, Broncos and
>Kidney belts, What a team!
>
>-- Gary --

My sentiments exactly! Even with your mods, what would they do? If you
sent it back to them untouched they would melt it down. They can still melt
it down even with your repairs. What are they gonna do, call you a liar in
front of the whole Fordtrucks list? And I was thinking of buying an
edelbrock! Fat chance now.... Oh yeah if they DO call you a liar or pull
some sort of "policy" bull-poo (in deference to Ken) on you, make sure you
tell them that the whole list (and bigbroncos as well I'm sure) is gonna
hear about it. I mean, you're not a crook, just a guy who wants what he
paid good money for.
And if you don't go back to them they'll keep on putting out the same sort
of crap. If customers don't complain, people don't change their ways. You
should even speak to a supervisor. I'm sure they must have an 800 number or
something. Or call them collect!


marko in vancouver
marko helix.net
71 F250 4x4
67 merc m100

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:42:38 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Tune up Ideas??

> From: "Brett McCoy"
> Subject: Re: Tune up Ideas??
> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:07:37 -0500

> I will check the kickdown rod tomorrow. I just assumed that they
> hooked it back up. Although it never would kick down above 60
> before the rebuild. There was a lot wrong with it though. I also
> seem to recall someone telling me that there is an adjustment screw
> on the kickdown. Maybe all I need to do is adjust it. Ya think??

There is an adjustment on the kick down lever at the carb and another
one inside the vac tube in the modulator which will affect when it
shifts and how long it stays down. Usually the modulator will
prevent upshifts if it's torn or leaking but it could just be out of
adjustment in this case. The kick down lever simply mitigates the
modulator setting so it's still looking at the vac but at a different
switch point.

Michigan roads, Broncos and
Kidney belts, What a team!

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:48:46 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Shop Manuals

> From: "George Shepherd"
> Subject: Re: Shop Manuals
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:02:00 -0500

> What the URL for Faxon's web site?

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.faxon.com/

Michigan roads, Broncos and
Kidney belts, What a team!

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:09:09 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: Edelbroke, FE, and me... a long unhappy story.

marko maryniak wrote:

> >Call them and tell them what happened. If they value their customer
> >relations they should make it right. Mention that you are also a
> >member of several web news groups/info lists and will make sure they
> >all hear about it :-)
> >
> >Michigan roads, Broncos and
> >Kidney belts, What a team!
> >
> >-- Gary --
>
> My sentiments exactly! Even with your mods, what would they do? If you
> sent it back to them untouched they would melt it down. They can still melt
> it down even with your repairs. What are they gonna do, call you a liar in
> front of the whole Fordtrucks list? And I was thinking of buying an
> edelbrock! Fat chance now....

For whatever it's worth, I put an edelbrock performer with the ega setup on 460
and it worked superbly. As I mentioned earlier, for FE stuff you should go with
the FE specialists such as Dover Engineering and or Ford Power Parts.

> Oh yeah if they DO call you a liar or pull
> some sort of "policy" bull-poo (in deference to Ken) on you, make sure you
> tell them that the whole list (and bigbroncos as well I'm sure) is gonna
> hear about it. I mean, you're not a crook, just a guy who wants what he
> paid good money for.
> And if you don't go back to them they'll keep on putting out the same sort
> of crap. If customers don't complain, people don't change their ways. You
> should even speak to a supervisor. I'm sure they must have an 800 number or
> something. Or call them collect!
>
> marko in vancouver
> marko helix.net
> 71 F250 4x4
> 67 merc m100
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:20:37 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Ron's Bronco

> From: "rons"
> Subject: Ron's Bronco
> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:50:07 -0400

> Is the G transmission a C4 and if so what will it take to replace
> it with
> a C6?
> What vehicles will have a C6 that fits mine?

You don't mention the engine size? If it's an I6 or 302 then it's
probably a C-4 otherwise it's a C-6.

> replace it with and they all are larger shafts than I have. Their
> numbers do not match mine on the bearing race which is Bower
> RB1579. This number is on the seal race pressed on the shaft. As

If you have Trac Loc it's probably 28 splines and may take a
different bearing than the 31 spline axle. There are three Ford rear
axle bearings I know of. The most common it the A-20 Federal Mogul
or Timkin for the 31 spline. There is a replacement Aisian made junk
bearing also used on the 8.8 axles but I wouldn't have one in my
truck.

Michigan roads, Broncos and
Kidney belts, What a team!

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:18:50 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: Edelbroke, FE, and me...

>> remove it again to fix it. The holes were cast all over the place.
>> Some were centered up good, and some were shifted sideways 3/16"!!
>> Nice quality guys. I thought yesterday sucked. Little did I
>> know...
>
>I've been here with other projects so what I'm about to say is with
>some cringing cuz I don't like delays either but I would have sent it
>back without any mods.

Yeah, the smart thing to do would have been to return the piece.
But You know how it goes, I had already painted the thing and done
a little minor porting to clean things up a little so it was already
slightly mod'ed before I even new there was trouble...
Being a "weekend warrior", I had to have the truck back together ASAP.
It's a work truck, so... You know.. 3 days of down time was already
too much.
The thought of cleaning up the D4TE and trying to heft its awesome
78 lbs back into place wasn't going down too well, so I figured I'd
just "fix" the edelbrock and get it on.. Then with each additional
problem, I regretted that decision more and more, but it was getting
kind of late for that.

>> off it. That's when I noticed the hole. That little pinhole from
>> Now mind You, I didn't grind thru into the port. The wall is still
>> over 1/8" thick there, but there's this long thin casting bubble
>> that starts in the port and I ground into it from the other side.
>> It left a hole big enough to poke a #18 wire from the pushrod side
>> into the port. THAT would have made cylinder #7 an oil burner for
>> sure.
>
>This needs to brought to their attention, ASAP IMHO :-)

Yes, I am going to write edelbrock and explain how this all went down.
The pinhole wouldn't have been a problem if I hadn't had to clearance
for the pushrods. I don't believe the hole went all the way thru
the wall until then. But then I shouldn't have to clearance it so...

>> distributor goes in easily. Too easily. The dist hole in the
>> edelbrock is HUGE! It's almost .070" bigger than the one in the
>> stock manifold, and it's not centered very well. Distributor is
>
>This is unacceptable. Your distributor will not interface with the
>cam properly and at best you will get excessive wear on the cam gear
>and dist gear. At worst it will cause a catastrophic failure which
>will damage other parts of the engine.

I think (hope) this will be O.K. I was concerned also about distributor
alignment, so I took the O-ring off and slid the dist down the hole.
The FE dist apears to not be located by the manifold. There is a machined
hole in the block that locates the distributor, and I couldn't
rock the dist back and forth even tho it wasn't touching the manifold.
The manifold hole seems to only provide a sealing surface for the o-ring
and a place for the clamp to bolt to. It doesn't seem to actually
locate the dist in postion. The block does this.
The dist, sans O-ring doesn't actually touch the manifold hole but
it is very close on one side and rather distant on the other.
I'm mostly worried about an oil leak.

Happy motoring,

Steve Delanty



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:20:13 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: electronic ignition

>
>> I got a rebuilt one at the auto parts store for about $45. + core ($20)
>> Nice new bushings, not all sloppy like a wrecking Yard one. (-:

>Hey, I got that!
> Now I hope Gary's prophesy comes true!... "At worst it will cause a
>catastrophic failure"... Yea, and you get a blowout too! Long haired hippie
>pink"o"! Should have saved your money on the distributor, and got a manifold
>that fit!
> I stick my tongue out at you and make a noise I don't know how to spell!

Ooooh... We're a little sensitive about our sloppy, worn out, 21-22 year
old wrecking yard distributor, aren't we??
For only $45, You too could have one that doesn't change timing when
You go over bumps and around corners. (-:

>So how was your day? :)
>
>Jim Strigas

My day went pretty good today. I actually made a little money fixing
some welders, instead of spending money on the truck!
Also got my new carb spacer today, but havn't tried installing it yet.
I may work on 'lil Auschwitz this evening. It's hot today, but been
chilly in the mornings. Gonna want that heater soon...

Happy motoring,

Steve Delanty



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:31:34 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: RE: Cooling system question

At 12:50 PM 10/14/97 -0700, you wrote:
- -snip-
>Keith:
>
>My 71 has a sliding control, and my '67 has a pull knob, that both do the
>same thing: they actuate a cable that opens/closes the heater control....


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