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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:52:42 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks61-79-digest)
To: fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks61-79-digest V1 #282
Reply-To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks61-79-digest Monday, October 13 1997 Volume 01 : Number 282



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: Difference between 360/390 (FT#278) ["Donald R. Screen"
Need your thoughts [Thomas Lamb ]
Web Page Addition [JonP27604 aol.com]
Re: difference between 360/390? [John MacNamara ]
Re: Edelbroke, FE, and me... a long unhappy story. [Brian & Jacque Milbra]
RE: 302 engine [pharrell bae.uga.edu (Graphics & Research Fabrication)]
Re: 79 F250 4x4 [Kelly Farough ]
Re: Edelbroke, FE, and me... [sdelanty sonic.net]
Re: Need your thoughts [Ken Payne ]
RE: roller camshafts [Sleddog ]
RE: more on roller cam [Sleddog ]
Tune up ideas (FT#281) [Alan Mittelstaedt ]
[Fwd: FE Hi-Po address] [Stuart Varner ]
Re: Edelbroke, FE, and me... a long unhappy story. [SuperMagot aol.com]
Re: Need your thoughts [SuperMagot aol.com]
Re: Edelbroke, FE, and me... a long unhappy story. [Jason Eaton
RE: Edelbroke, FE, and me... a long unhappy story. [DC Beatty

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 05:05:09 -0500
From: "Donald R. Screen"
Subject: Re: Difference between 360/390 (FT#278)

> different crank, rods, and pistons. There should be a difference in the
> cylinder head casting number. I have loaned out my FE book with casting
> numbers for ID of the crank and heads, but here's a shot at it anyway.

Alan,
What's the name of the FE book that you have that shows casting numbers
for IDing the crank and heads? My Ford FE library is growing steadily,
but still don't have a book like this. Is it a factory shop manual?
Got my Ford Red book from Amazon.com. Only took about 3 days from
ordering to receipt! Has great VIN, options, motor info...well worth the
$8.71 price...shipping was $3.95. Answered completely my questions about
what is included in the Ranger XLT package. Many of these list questions
can be answered using this little book.

Don
Allen, Texas

PS. Jim, I'll give you a call when I get to Ontario and see if you're
available
for some F100 truck talk. Would like to see the mods and repairs you've
done
to your truck. Unfortunately I don't have pics of my truck...wife promised
to
save me a couple of shots on the last roll, but got carried away shooting
pics of my grandson. Tried out your Halloween page...WILD is all I can say.

Have never seen graphics like that before on the net. Your html code worked

just fine.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:18:21 -0500
From: Thomas Lamb
Subject: Need your thoughts

Hello everyone, I'm a a proud owner of a 78', but a friend of mine
wants
to buy a late 60's early 70' model and would like your comments and
suggestions on these years. It will be a daily driver.
Thanks . Tommy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:51:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: JonP27604 aol.com
Subject: Web Page Addition

Ken,
I have been on the list for some time now and have really enjoyed it. I
have noticed that some of the same questions keep coming up now and then
(i.e. electronic ignition installation, disk brake conversion etc..) Is there
a way to add a "List FAQ" to the web page so members can refer to it?

example:
New list member- I want to put disk brakes on my 67 F100.

Member responce- Yes it can be done refer to the "list faq" at the web site
look at disk brake installation and read Ken Payne's great
explanation of the process. If you have any question please ask.

What do you think?

Jon E. Purut
JonP27604 aol.com

1965 F100 SWB Daily Driver
1965 F100 Parts Truck Hoping To Revive As F350 Super Duty
1977 Parts Truck
1970 Mustang Fastback
1993 Escort Wagon (wifes car)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 06:00:16 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: difference between 360/390?

Steve: I know this won't be much consolation but I don't know if you have
ever heard of Ford Power Parts out of Norwak, Ca. They are the acknowledge
leader in aftermarket parts for FE's and they have nice intake manifolds. If
you ever consider doing this swap again, you might give them a call. If you
need a number be glad to get it for you.

Thanks
John MacNamara

78 F250 4X4 Supercab
67 GT500
66 Corvette

sdelanty sonic.net wrote:

> >>
> >> List,
> >> How can one tell a 360 from a 390 Motor?????I've heard there identical
> >> on the outside????ANy help would be appreciated
> >> Joe
> >> 68 F100 4x4
>
> Hi Joe,
> That's a tough one. The blocks are identical and often don't have
> casting #'s. Many 360's/390's shared the same head castings, so that's
> likely no help. You can decode the VIN tag, but that doesn't gaurantee
> that someone hasn't swapped motors.
> The easiest way is to take out a spark plug and measure the stroke
> with a piece of wire. 3.5" = 360, 3.78" = 390.
> I bought a FE for $75 for my truck. The guy told me it was a 360, but
> when I got it home it was a 390! (-:
>
> Good luck,
>
> Steve Delanty
> "So many idiots, so few meteors."
>
>
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:22:32 -0500
From: Brian & Jacque Milbrandt
Subject: Re: Edelbroke, FE, and me... a long unhappy story.

Well I can see now that I'm going for the WEIAND STEALTH !!!
I don't need no stinking EDELBROKE !!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 97 09:19:21 EDT
From: pharrell bae.uga.edu (Graphics & Research Fabrication)
Subject: RE: 302 engine

Ford placed the dipstick in three different locations, in the timing cover, in
the side of the block, and in the oil pan itself. The 302 in the Bronco went
into the oil pan until 1977. This is the worst location for leaking.

The only thing to be concerned with is whether you will be using a front or rear
sump oil pan. You can't use the timing cover location for a rear sump! If your
block has the flat location cast on the block and you end up using a rear sump,
you can drill the block to fit the dipstick, or you can find an older model rear
sump oil pan that has the dipstick holder riveted on (easiest). I ran into this
problem on my 1980 Bronco 302. I did a complete rebuild with another block, and
after putting it all together, realized I didn't have a way to check the oil.
Boy, I kicked myself for that one. Had to pull the pan, couldn't find another,
and had to weld a tube in the pan for the dipstick. (the one for the engine, and
the dipstick who screwed it up)

Patrick
pharrell bae.uga.edu

- --- Begin Included Message ---

I had a 302 given to me recently, I checked the serial numbers and it's
a 1974 vintage and the dip stick tube is in the timing chain cover. Does
anyone know it this was typical for 1974 engines or did they only do
this on car engines rather than truck engines. My 1980 truck has a 302
and the dip stick is on the side (drivers side).

- --- End Included Message ---

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:13:27 -0600 (MDT)
From: Kelly Farough
Subject: Re: 79 F250 4x4

Bill, I've got a 77 1/2 Ford F-250 4x4 s.w.b. crew cab that i've
owned for a number of years now. It has the power ram steering
and after an initial total rebuild ($600 Canadian) it's never caused me
any problems. In retrospect I could have modified it to the later
style "normal" P.S.. The power ram as so many hoses and fittings etc.
and parts are becoming very hard to source. Question-- Are you sure you've
got the power ram steering? My sources say that except for certain models
of trucks, those with small production quantities like crew cabs, duallies
etc. all other trucks changed over to reg. P.S. in mid 77. Regardless
regular P.S. should be (watch out for those two words) a bolt in for you.

Anybody out there know where I can get a P.T.O. for a 63 F600 w/
a clark 4sp.? Thanks.

On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, John MacNamara wrote:

>
>
>
> Bill Beyer wrote:
>
> > I have the chance to purchase a one owner 79 F250 4x4. It has 123k on the
> > original 400 with a C6 and NP205. It was mostly used for towing a 17 ft
> > fishing boat around in the Pacific NW, very little actual four wheeling. It
> > has a little surface rust on the hood where the paint has gone south but no
> > other visible rust. I checked the rear fenderwells and cab corners and it
> > seems to be pretty solid. I'm looking for a reliable daily driver which
> > could handle some camping up in the mountains. It also has a shell and
> > carpeted bed kit in it. The guy wants $3200 for it. Is this a good deal?
> > The only bad thing I've heard about this series is that the ram (?) type
> > power steering is a little dicey. Any comments would be greatly
> > appreciated.
> >
> > Bill Beyer
>
> Bill: I paid $3200 for a 78 F250 4X4 Supercab so this sounds like a good deal
> to me. Great trucks and you will love it!
>
> John
>
> 78 F250 4X4 Supercab
> 67 GT500
> 66 Corvette
>
> >
> >
> > +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> > | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> > | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> > +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+
>
>
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:40:02 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: Edelbroke, FE, and me...

> As the Edelbrock manifold sat looking across the lake, it said to Steve
>"One day I'm going on your truck, aren't I Steve huh, aren't I Steve, huh,
>huh, aren't I Steve! The camera fades back revealing a long haired man with
>a pump shotgun...
>
> Sorry to hear it Bro! The $$$ difference in performance parts makes it
>understandable why people drop SBC's in their Fords. I mean it's immoral
>yes, but still understandable. ", PepBoys carries aluminum spacers, maybe
>cheaper. They also carry Edelbrock stuff, well the one just down the street
>from me does anyway.
>Good luck!

Actually I DO have a remington 870LH pump... But It hasn't quite come
down to that yet! I did flatten my holley 1850 with a 6lb hammer last
year... It just *wouldn't* stop leaking, and I got a little frustrated.

I'm gonna go out later this morning and try and score a spacer.
Kragens is 14 miles round trip, Pepboys is 60 miles round...
Super shops about 50. Thank god they are all in the same direction.
Hopefully I'll find what I need, preferably in a non-edelbrock brand name.
(or at least for way less than $35)
I'm just not gonna give edelbrock another $35 to make their overpriced,
low quality manifold work. I'll get a 6" x 7" x 1" hunk of aluminum and
drive up to ukiah to my friends machine shop first... I know *I* can hit
the holes in the right spot at least! Actually what I *could* fairly
easily is take my old spacer, a piece of aluminum plate and the TIG welder
and make a stock spacer work.

Hmm, it smells like my breakfast is almost ready...

Happy motoring,

Steve Delanty
"So many idiots, so few meteors."



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:31:30 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: Need your thoughts

At 07:18 AM 10/13/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello everyone, I'm a a proud owner of a 78', but a friend of mine
>wants
>to buy a late 60's early 70' model and would like your comments and
> suggestions on these years. It will be a daily driver.

Parts are very easy to find. Engine parts are cheap, body parts
aren't always cheap but they're not too bad. My 67 has approx
300,000 miles and is a daily driver. It runs and runs and runs...
Very dependable. Many parts interchange with the 73-79 trucks.
If he's looking for a restoration truck, the pre-67s have some
nice curves. 61-63 trucks are unibody with the bed and cab as
one unit. Very hard to find one in good shape. Ford abandoned
the one piece approach. I guess they found out that frame stiffness
is not a good thing with trucks. Watch how much a truck will twist
when you take one off road (especially with a load). The 67-72s are
easy to find parts for and have slightly more "modern engineering".
Many things from this series survived into the 80s.

Ken

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:38:15 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: roller camshafts

thanks for the info.
i am still looking, as i really need good duration, but really big lift
doesn't help me as of yet. without CJ heads or Blue Thunder heads (cast
iron) big lifts are a little wastefull. for example a mildly done set of
stock 460 heads i have been told really won't flow more air over a .590
lift or so. especially with the stock valve sizes. i think i am going to
bigger valves, but everything comes down to money. the local builders want
$2000 for a "good" port job alone. and then, if the big lifts put the
valves too close to the pistons, the price for new pistons (forged) with
big enough valve pockets is enough to cause premature heart failure.

sleddog

ps-i have heard good things about ultradyne - at least two fellow truck
pullers use em.

- ----------
From: woody[SMTP:wfriesen worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 1997 4:24 PM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Re: roller camshafts

It's taken awhile to dig through my accumulation of catalogs,but finally
found one listing what sounds like a streetable grind right off the shelf:

Ultradyne - specs 278/290 lobe separation 112 lift .641/.641
duration at .050 244/255 described as "popular street roller, good
bottom end & mid-range, power 2000-6500

Ultradyne is at 8678 Whitworth. Southaven, Mississippi 38671,

phone (601) 393-3214
Their prices are about double the more popular brands.


Another one not mentioned to date but a little further out is from
Schneider Cams:

Schneider Bracket race, power from 3000 to 7000 300/314
duration at .050 266/272 lift .656/l665 catalog says "Custom grinds
are our specialty." Roller Grinds available on special order only.
Phone
for technical info.

Schneider Cams is at 1235 Cushman Avenue, San Diego, CA 92110,
phone (619) 297-0227. I haven't checked the number -- the catalog dates
from about 1991 so phone area code prefix may have changed.

Woody
wfriesen worldnet.att.net






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:48:03 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: more on roller cam

the place is:

ENGINE SYSTEMS, INC.
2256 fourth st.
tucker, GA 30084

770-491-0583
fax 770-491-7357

just don't call on race day, they ain't there :)

sleddog

- ----------
From: JAMES MERLO[SMTP:JJKMER worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 1997 10:41 PM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Re: more on roller cam

Would you like to share name, address, phone, etc.

- ----------
> From: Sleddog
> To: 'fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net'
> Subject: more on roller cam
> Date: Saturday, October 04, 1997 1:54 PM
>
> i have a great source for 460 parts. they do flathead and fe and y-block

> also, but mainly 460. the smallest they list for roller is over .645
lift
> and over 268 dur. .050. i know that they told me i can get profiles
other
> than what is in the catalog for hyd. cams - one day soon i hope to call
> about the roller cams. i am sure someone must be able to sell me a
smaller
> one. but i still don't know if any work has to be done to make the parts

> work/fit like machining the timing chain cover or block for a different
> thrust bearing or if the crossbars will fit without grinding away some of

> the block at the lifter bores like a freind of mine had to do with a 340
> even though he was told they'd drop right in.
>
> i actually don't mind a really big bump stick, but i do not want to have
to
> recut pistons or such and my bottom end may not last much over the 6500
> mark and i really doubt it will hold at all over the 7000 mark. BTW,
> another puller running a "big" 460 pulled down the track with a cast iron

> crank at over 9000 rpm and only just blew it apart this year - after at
> least 5 years on the crank. he now has decided to go proffessional. he
> has been #1 in points for the last 3 years or so in my class. guess he
had
> no where else to go!
>
> sleddog
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+





+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:10:29 -0700
From: Alan Mittelstaedt
Subject: Tune up ideas (FT#281)

> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:41:49 -0500
> From: "Brett McCoy"
> Subject: Re: Tune up Ideas??

..snip..

> replace the plugs. What do you guys think about Splitfire Plugs? Are they
> worth the extra cost?? Would I be better off with the Champion Gold plugs
> for half the cost?

Brett--

I broke down and bought a set of S-fires for a 302 I had in a Merc, and
a SAAB (Slob?) 900. Only the 302 fared any better, and in only one
specific region: off-idle throttle response, specifically part throttle
off-idle throttle response, kind of like when you drive with an egg
under the accelerator pedal; I didn't have to squeeze it as hard, so I
got a little better mileage, 2-3 mpg in town, little or no difference on
long trips. Everywhere else was no better, but also no worse. The Merc
had an auto trans so I was able to notice it a little more. The SlAAB
has a manual trans, so improvements might be there too, but not as
noticeable. Also, the plugs tend to read a little lean, but no problems
with pre-ignition or pinging. I bought the S-fires as an experiment,
but I think that modified driving habits would improve mileage or
longevity of an engine more than 6 bucks a plug. Not quite worth it,
IMHO, but an interesting toy nonetheless. Go for the Champions.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:15:02 -0700
From: Stuart Varner
Subject: [Fwd: FE Hi-Po address]

Message-ID:
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:09:41 -0700
From: Stuart Varner
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Fordtrucks
Subject: FE Hi-Po address
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lately, Some have been asking about performance mods for the
beasty FE motors. I have responded to several of you by private email,
promising to give the snail mail address of Jim Dove. Die Hard FORD
Brother, FE afficinado, and businessman of the most revered kind.

Jim Dove purchased quite abit of / mostly all of / Ford's old FE casting
equipment for his little foundry in Ohio. Jim Dove Inc. manufactures
more roller rockers than anybody in the USA and provides this equipment
to The big three and others
for new cars. On the side, Jim produces all aluminum 427 blocks, 427
SOHC motor kits.
Some other things he makes for FE motors includes;
Canadian Cobra Jet heads, Tunnel port heads, Med. and High Riser heads,
Low Lift heads,
All heads he produces are made of both aluminum and cast iron. He
produces aluminum water pumps, lo, Med. and High riser intakes, Tunnel
Ram intakes, Single plane manifolds
aluminum timing Covers, etc.

Listen to this!!!!!
They did a test on the Edlebrock performance RPM intake manifold. on a
428 CID wquiped with his DOVE Canadian CJ heads. 9.8 : 1 comp ratio,
comp cam 294-s cam, 725 cfm Holley carb, with a DOVE roller Rocker
assembly and Dove push rods.

The Dyno showed 332 corrected HP at 6000rpm.

He then replaced the intake mainfold only with his DOVE single plane
medium riser intake manifold took it to 6000 rpm, FOUND 505 corrected
HP. a gain of 173 HP!!!

The Dove manifold also out-torqued the edlebrock manifold below 3000
rpm.

Pretty impressive!

Here's his address:

DOVE manufacturing
P.O. Box 1003
Columbia Station, Ohio 44028
Phone (216) 236-5139
Fax(216) 236-3582

Stu
71 4X4 F-100
89 Merc Grand Marq. Soon to be replaced with a 96 Cobra 4 cam if I can
ever locate the right one!
95 Special Service Crown Victoria LX

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:45:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: SuperMagot aol.com
Subject: Re: Edelbroke, FE, and me... a long unhappy story.

Interesting...

I did a Edelbrock performer manifold swap on a 360 I had, and the only
problem I had was the manifold did not come with the little tube that hooks
up to the water pump.
I had to press fit one. Other than that, no problems.

I also put a Performer on my 460, and again, had no problems. The performace
gain was worth it.

I wonder if you have a "weird" FE block?

Sorry about your problems!!

- - Mike

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:49:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: SuperMagot aol.com
Subject: Re: Need your thoughts

I have owned a 70 and 72. (Nearly Identical models)

A very good combination of reliability, conveience and reliability. Not so
much modern gizmos to break, but not so old your afraid its gonna fall apart
on ya, and parts are still very easy to find.

Parts swapping is pretty easy too. The 70 and 72 I had are capable of
supporting anything from the straight 6's all the way up to 460's without
much hassle.

The 70 I currently have orginally came with a 240 6 cyl and a 3 speed manual.
I swapped a 460 C-6 with out much hassle. Used the same transmission
cross-member even!

- - Mike

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:23:22 -0700
From: Jason Eaton
Subject: Re: Edelbroke, FE, and me... a long unhappy story.

SuperMagot aol.com wrote:
>
> Interesting...
>
> I did a Edelbrock performer manifold swap on a 360 I had, and the only
> problem I had was the manifold did not come with the little tube that hooks
> up to the water pump.
> I had to press fit one. Other than that, no problems.
>
> I also put a Performer on my 460, and again, had no problems. The performace
> gain was worth it.
>
> I wonder if you have a "weird" FE block?
>
> Sorry about your problems!!
>

I wonder if the block was "decked" at the machine shop inproperly, ie.
they only "decked" the cyliders and not the manifold section of the
block.

This would totally screw up your angles of the manifold. You would have
less of a steep angle on the heads cause they would be lower sitting on
the block. Which means more space between each head which means manifold
doesn't sit properly anymore.

Hope you can follow this logic.

- --
Jason Eaton, FCI Communications ( Java Development )
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.fcicom.com jeaton fcicom.com
- --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 16:51:26 -0400
From: DC Beatty
Subject: RE: Edelbroke, FE, and me... a long unhappy story.

- ----------
From: INTERNET:fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 1997 9:54 PM
To: INTERNET:fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Edelbroke, FE, and me... a long unhappy story.....


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