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Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 21:09:59 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks61-79-digest)
To: fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks61-79-digest V1 #268
Reply-To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks61-79-digest Monday, October 6 1997 Volume 01 : Number 268



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
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message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: 460 roller stuff ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Anyone ?? ["Kevin Fowler" ]
Re: Anyone ?? ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: question [Brian & Jacque Milbrandt ]
Re: Cooling Fan Options??? [sdelanty sonic.net]
RE: 460 roller stuff [Sleddog ]
RE: Cooling Fan Options??? [Sleddog ]
RE: freezing block - anti freeze [Sleddog ]
RE: Anyone ?? [Sleddog ]
RE: Cooling Fan Options??? [Mike Schwall ]
Re: 70s 4x4 factory engines/drivetrains ["George Shepherd"
Re: '64 F100 CrewCab Info [bbprice ]
Shrouded in secrecy ["J. OXLEY" ]
Re: freezing block - anti freeze ["George Shepherd" ]
Re: '64 F100 CrewCab Info [GMPACHECO aol.com]
RE: 70 options [DC Beatty ]
Hey, come back here! [sdelanty sonic.net]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 14:31:25 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: 460 roller stuff

> From: jniolon uss.com
> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 10:44 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: 460 roller stuff

> My engine expert is expressing some concern over my plans to
> use roller rockers and hyd lifters..saying that without the
> lash of solids that insufficient oiling might be a problem

They will get the same amount of oil and have less metal to metal
contact than stock rockers so I don't think that's a concern. If it
were, the big companies making them would quit due to warantee
problems. I plan to put rollers both places, on top and underneath
:-) I figure the cast aluminum valve covers will give me 10 HP as
well and improve economy too (that's what I'll tell my wife
anyway :-)) Now if we could just get a little more mileage out of
our credit cards......................

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 13:34:49 -0000
From: "Kevin Fowler"
Subject: Re: Anyone ??



I am not familiar with that casting number!

Here is a chart of all the block casting numbers I

could find for the 429/460.

429/460 68 C8VE-F

429CJ 70 C8VY-A
C9VY-A
C9VE-B
DOSZ-A, D
D1VZ
D1VE
D1ZE-AZ
D5TE

429SCJ 70-71 D0OE-B
CJ 71 D0OE-B
POLICE 71-72 D0OE-B





- -----Original Message-----
From: Brian & Jacque Milbrandt
To: Fordtrucks
Date: Monday, October 06, 1997 5:44 AM
Subject: Anyone ??



>Does anyone have a listing, or know an easy way to get a true
>identification of a block casting number?
>
> I recently purchased a 64'f100 and am going to put my engine that
>I previously stuffed into a 79'f150 supercab 4x4 into it. Its been about
>8 years since I played with this motor and can't remember exactly what
>I've got. I do know its a 429/460. but am not sure what year and which
>it is for sure. I tried a local crankshaft regrinder
>but he states that he's never heard of this number. Any help would be
>greatly appreciated as I am now at a stalling point for ordering parts.
>
>block casting number...DNE 6015 A2B.....???
>
>Thanks for your help.
>
>Brian
>64'f100 shortbox
>78'f150 4x4
>96'f150 4x4 shortbox
>97'J**P wrangler
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
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>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 14:39:00 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Anyone ??

> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 12:40:45 -0500
> From: Brian & Jacque Milbrandt
> Subject: Re: Anyone ??

> Basically I want to have a noticable lopey idle, and lots of low
> end

Paradox! Sort of like having power and speed in a gear box. Low end
at the wheels maybe with a high stall torque converter? Actually my
RV cam has a bit of lope to it which I like and still gets very nice
bottom end power (engine wise) Not quite as lopy as my 3/4 race
Iskadarian cam I had in my 62 cutlass 215 but still noticeable :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 13:44:19 -0500
From: Brian & Jacque Milbrandt
Subject: Re: question

Try This

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://automotive.internetrader.com/iti publications/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 13:38:24 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: Cooling Fan Options???

>
>>3) Pitch the flex fan and go with an electric fan set-up.

>Don't do it, unless ambient air temperature never gets above 80F and you
>don't do stop & go city driving. I read an article in one of the 4x4 rags
>a while back that a decent stock fan moves at least twice as much air w/
>the engine at idle(!) than an electric fan of the same size. With the
>engine at speed, the elec fan is even weaker by comparison.
>
>Dave R. (M-block devotee)
>1980 F250 4x4 351M

Hi Dave,

Yeah, I could get those results with an electric if I wanted also, but
I chose my stuff more carefully than that! (-;
I'd like to see what they used and HOW they installed it..

I've read bad stuff about electrics also, but my personal experiance
with electrics is VERY good. My F100/FE390 loves them!!
I flog the truck heavily, drive lots of stop & go, and have let it sit
and idle for looong periods on 100+ degree days many times these past
2 summers, with no worry of overheating.
I could let it idle for hours on hot asphalt on a 105 degree day for You
if You like, and You're buying the gas! (-:
I use the stock modine radiator with 80% H2O, 20% glycol and 1 pint
of Redline "Watter Wetter" (tm) and 180F thermostat and 14 lb cap...

A lot depends on what fan You use and how You set it up.
Many fans with different blade diameters use the *same* motor, and draw the
same current. They simply run the larger fans at slower speeds and don't
really move more air than the small fans. The 16" I looked at moved the
same air as both the 14" and 12" models!! (all same brand)
Two smaller electrics will almost always move more air than one large, and
probably give better core coverage also.
Since my radiator core is 26-1/2"" wide, I chose a 12" and a 14" side
by side.

Also the fans must be mounted so they "see" the whole radiator area, not
just a 16" circle, like You get by zip-tying a 16" fan to the rad core.
Pulling a 16" circle of air thru a 26" x 20" core is wasting 62% of Your
radiator!!!
Mount the fans an inch or 2 back from the core and build a fan shroud so
the fans pull air through the *whole* core. Otherwise, most of the
radiator is wasted. This also reduces the pressure drop across the core
and lets the fan move maximum air. Blade type fans don't like inlet
restrictions much, and CFM drops quickly with increasing pressure drop
across the radiator. Let them "breathe" thru the whole thing!

My pair move more air at idle than the stock 5 blade did at 3000 RPM.
The pair draws 14 amps, and I run lights, stereo and amp, MSD ign, etc,
and my 60 amp alternator hasn't complained yet. I've run the fans for
2 summers now with no charging problems, and certainly no more cooling
problems. Remember the fans only run part time even when hot, and are
almost always off when moving more than 25-35mph.
My setup cost me about $120 for the fans, thermoswitch and relay.
Kinda expensive I guess, but it is VERY effective and trouble free and
I don't think I could have gotten as good cooling with ANY mechanical
setup I've seen. And I don't worry about sitting in traffic on killer
hot days anymore.

Mike wrote:

>One thing to keep in mind about electrics, some of them come with those
>little plastic wires that stick throught the radiator fins. These things
>will vibrate and bounce around over time and break your radiator. (Speaking
>from experience) I strongly suggest you build a permamement mounting bracket
>or frame for your fans so that the fans weight are NOT supported by the
>radiator itself.
>
>- - Mike

Yes!! I agree. Any mounting method that uses the core for supports is
blowing it.. Gonna cause You grief someday.
Also, it forces the fan to pull thru a small circle, and "wastes" the rest
of the core area.
I looked at the instructions and zip-tyes for mine and just started
laughing.. Do they think I'm that stupid?! (apparently...)
I mounted mine to a couple 3/4" angle iron pieces across the rad and used
some preexisting holes on the rad frame. It was a very simple thing to
mount them correctly.

Happy motoring,

Steve Delanty


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:55:27 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: 460 roller stuff

i currently use 1.73 ratio harland sharp roller rockers and rhoads lifters
(never again will i use those rhoads). i have not yet noticed any oiling
problems. in the next couple of monthes i'll have it all apart again if i
see anything weird i'll post it. i have never heard of any problem. i
can't see how there would be more of a proplem with rolling surfaces as to
sliding surfaces (stock rockers) when it comes to lubrication, except that
the sliding surfaces would need MORE lube.

sleddog

- ----------
From: jniolon uss.com[SMTP:jniolon uss.com]
Sent: Monday, October 06, 1997 6:44 AM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: 460 roller stuff


reading with great interest the thread on the roller cam..

I would also like to see a mild 460 roller for my truck project
but can't seem to find one other that the big race stuff.

Also I had another question...

has anyone ever heard of oiling problems with roller rockers and
hydraulic lifters in the 460's.

My engine expert is expressing some concern over my plans to use
roller rockers and hyd lifters..saying that without the lash of solids
that insufficient oiling might be a problem

How's bout it guys...your opinions please



john






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:51:37 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: Cooling Fan Options???

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Monday, October 06, 1997 6:59 AM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: RE: Cooling Fan Options???

> From: Sleddog
> Subject: RE: Cooling Fan Options???
> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:42:12 -0400

> as the belts are tight enough on the water pump). also, the plastic
> fan won't come apart ever, is extemely light and won't cut your hand
> off if you ever get too close. electric is the best choice, but the

Have you tested that theory? Remember centrigugal force will
"harden" those blades considerably :-(


i did get too close once - ONCE!
a nice nasty cut and some lasting pain, but i think i would've been much
worse off with a stock or flex fan.
when i first did my motor mount from L&L swap, the fan blades hit the
shroud. enough that i removed 3" deep and about 12" long of shroud to
clear it now. when i started to engine (next time i'll make sure there is
clearance) it made a whole $# !load of noise, but neither then plastic fan
or the shroud was damaged.

sleddog

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:08:59 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: freezing block - anti freeze

- ----------
From: SuperMagot aol.com[SMTP:SuperMagot aol.com]
Sent: Monday, October 06, 1997 9:23 AM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Re: freezing block - anti freeze

My $0.02 -

Put in the proper mix of antifreeze/water, run the engine for a few minutes
to circulate it, then drain it. The antifreeze/water mix can be kept over
the winter in a container or used somewhere else. I strongly suggest YOU
DO
NOT leave any amount of pure water in the engine. Even a small pocket can
freeze and expand and break something.

Antifreeze is cheap compared to tearing down a block!!

Also, running pure water at any time is bad idea. Modern antifreeze also
contains anti-rust compounds. Pure water will rust out the inside of your
cooling system no matter the tempature. Again, anti-freeze is cheap.

i agree, a block ain't cheap. and yes it does rust the inside. i don't
have a rust problem now, but i have been running water for many reasons. i
didn't think the block would make it this long, i initially had a
overheating problem ( i now know why ) and changed the water pump several
times and thermostat, etc. and it is hard to reuse the antifreeze
sometimes. i am on a strict budget - if i can use water, then the money i
save will buy me synthetic oil and water wetter. BTW, i used a 5 gallon
jug that used to have cooking oil in it for water and some of that oil is
in my coolant. maybe that is why it ain't rusting bad?

sleddog

Being cheap in the short run often costs in the long run!

- - Mike






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:15:05 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: Anyone ??

i think you may be happier with a cam more like the crower hydraulic
haulers series. huge torque from idle to 5500. that with a slightly
higher than stock stall speed would run very wel and still go long trips.
i would pass on the performaer intake and use a single plane or if you
want a dual plane use the blue thunder or the one from ford SVO, or the
best one would be the weind stealth. i have a 460 with a comp cams 292
retarded 4 deg and this motor likes the higher rpm range.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Brian & Jacque Milbrandt[SMTP:milbrand visi.com]
Sent: Monday, October 06, 1997 1:40 PM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Re: Anyone ??

I'm looking to rebuild fresh, I originally had block bored .30 over,
new trw 10.50:1 pistons, rhoades cam & lifters, performer manifold, L&L
headers, Holley 650...and was quite happy. I'm not a real motor head,
I'm more into the drive line/suspension stuff.
I'm looking to make this motor get up and go!!. I've had block boiled
and new frost plugs and cam bearings installed. I'm sending crank out
for fresh grinding and bearings matched. But from there I'm not sure as
to what path to take.
I'm thinking about a 292 cam with matched springs & lifters. heavy
pushrods, Possible the performer rpm manifold, a gear drive, possibly a
predator carb. Don't know much about what I'd need for a torque
convertor. and really if that cam would do what I want.
Basically I want to have a noticable lopey idle, and lots of low end
power. the 64' f100 will be a toy...not a daily driver...but I want to
be able to take it on a long cruise.






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
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+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 17:43:46 -0500
From: Mike Schwall
Subject: RE: Cooling Fan Options???

At 05:51 PM 10/6/97 -0400, you wrote:
>i did get too close once - ONCE!
>a nice nasty cut and some lasting pain, but i think i would've been much
>worse off with a stock or flex fan.
>
>sleddog

Been there, seen that. My cousin borrowed my brand new Craftsman inductive
timing light to check the timing on his Je*ep. I was in the thing waiting
for the signal to start the motor. After a few minutes of him fooling
around up there, I finally get the signal to fire it up. Vrooom....clank,
clink, "ahhhh", Then this "turn it off turn it off" that came out so fast
your swore it was one word. I got out and looked at him. He had this
really stupid look on his face. Looked at his hands, all he had was the
timing light, the cords were ripped right out of the thing. Took him about
five minutes to come to his senses. It took me longer to get the six feet
of cord unwrapped from the fan.

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mikes intix.net
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:10:45 -0500
From: "George Shepherd"
Subject: Re: 70s 4x4 factory engines/drivetrains

My book says 75's had a 460 option, engine code "j", a 460 v-8 4bbl 239 hp.

- ----------
> From: woody
> To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> Subject: 70s 4x4 factory engines/drivetrains
> Date: Monday, October 06, 1997 6:37 AM
>
> Did a little tire-kicking this weekend -- one was a '75 F250 with C-6 and
> 460 engine. When I asked about who did the conversion, the owner
> maintained it was sold that way from the factory. I've been under the
> impression (false?) that the 460 wasn't offered as a factory option til
> 1977 or '78 (mid-year '77 model change). So can anyone offer definitive
> info as to when the 460 was first offered in the F series--for model
years
> before 1977 I assume the production numbers were quite low relative to
the
> FE block version (and were 428s offered in trucks too or only 360-390s?).

> Drivetrains offered through this period are also a bit murky in my mind.
> Up through mid-1977 was the only F-250-350 offering a Dana 60 in the rear
> and a heavy-duty (large hub) 44 in front? Or was the Dana 60 front/Dana
70
> rear an option as was true mid-1977 to 1979? And divorced transfer cases
> also ended with the 1977 model year? Disc brakes on the heavy duty Dana
44
> the front axle were first available with the '76 model year, or earlier?

> Any disc brake front Dana 60 offering before mid-1977? Sorry for all the
> questions but thought I might as well get this all sorted out once and
for
> all.
>
> Woody
> wfriesen worldnet.att.net
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 19:26:48 -0400
From: bbprice
Subject: Re: '64 F100 CrewCab Info

CARVER, JEFFREY D wrote:

> Warranty number: F10CH506881 WB: 128 Color Y
> Model: F100 Body: B81 Trans: G Axel: 11
> Max GVW: 5000 Cert HP: 135 RPM: 3800 DSO: 72
>
> I know what I got, what do the numbers say?
>
> The Ford Red book says you have the following:

F100 with a 292 ci V8 which was assebled in Louisville, KY. It was
assembled in February of 1964. 128" wheel base, The color is skylight
blue, The B81 means it's a chassis cab, Transmission is HD
Cruise-O-Matic, the rear axle is a 3.71:1. I hope this helps.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:17:22 -0700
From: "J. OXLEY"
Subject: Shrouded in secrecy

OK

I give up. I replaced the rad in my 78 bronco with a larger one, the
one that comes with AC. It bolted right up, although the hole for air to
get through to rad needs to be opened up. I have a camper special front
end that had AC, so I will eventually swap out radiator support.

I ordered a shroud from Ford, PN D7TZ-8146-B and it was to small.
Seemed like the shroud for the stock radiator. Called Ford back and
exchanged it for a larger shroud, supposedly for same truck with super
duty cooling, PN D7TZ-8146-D. This shroud is huge, not only longer, it's
taller also. No way it's gonna fit. What gives, Ford claims they only
list two part numbers.

Thanks in advance

OX

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:32:21 -0500
From: "George Shepherd"
Subject: Re: freezing block - anti freeze

The block does trap water that doesn't drain, can freeze and crack parts.
There is generally a block drain plug at the block's lowest point. Find it
drain it and you should be ok except for the heater core. Blow it out with
air.
George Shepherd

- ----------
> From: Sleddog
> To: 'fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net'
> Subject: freezing block - anti freeze
> Date: Monday, October 06, 1997 9:34 AM
>
> hello all,
> last year i did a stupid thing. i didn't have enough antifreeze for the
> winter and a freeze plug blew out. (the hardest one to get at too!)
> this year, i won't be so dumb! but, i will be rebuilding the top end
this
> winter/spring. i run water in the summer because of the possibly
frequant
> disassembly, etc. so, can anyone tell me - if i just drain the water,
can
> the block still freeze? i would hate to fill the thing up with
antifreeze
> only to waste it in a couple of monthes. i realize that all the water
> doesn't drain. that is why i don't know what to do.
> i can't just start removing parts before the pennsylvania winter closes
in
> either. the truck must be mobile as much as possible - and i can still
> start the motor to move it out of (or in?) the way without coolant for a
> minute or two.
> any thoughts?
>
> sleddog
>
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 19:37:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: GMPACHECO aol.com
Subject: Re: '64 F100 CrewCab Info

What is the Ford Red Book? Where can I get a copy?


Mike in Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 22:44:59 -0400
From: DC Beatty
Subject: RE: 70 options

The door might not be too bad. They have drain holes in the bottom. Some
water always gets past the window seal wiper things anyway.

I guess body guys fix this by putting solder in the holes and grinding it=

down. I will be attempting this myself one day.

DC Beatty
1967 F100 352
1974 Maverick 302 (talk about rust!!!)

- ----------
From: INTERNET:fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Sent: Monday, October 06, 1997 11:35 AM
To: INTERNET:fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Re:70 options

Okay I was out looking at trucks at the local sell your own. Saw a really=

nice blue 73&up Custom and a 70 3 spd. Well the 70 had what looked like t=
o
me a sun visor from JCW. But on the info list the guy said it was a rare
factory fiberglass eye(?)(I can't remeber what he called it) Anway I've
never seen that before on a truck. It is all in black striaght body no
rust. Had outdated Louisianina(sp) plates. On more thing. On the 73 it ha=
d
aftermarket side mirrors but they didn't cover up the old holes and it
left a big hole in the drivers door. Repainted and looked sharp. So is it=

hard to fix that? I wouldn't buy it because of the door bing rusted out.
Thanks
Ryan


1971 Torino 500, 1971 F-100, 1977 Hornet Sportabout, =

1978 New Yorker e-mail: st0478 student-mail.jsu.edu
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/9027
=





+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 20:09:55 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Hey, come back here!

So, I was cruisin on the freeway today, about 70 mph, on the way home....

---

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