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Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:31:02 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks61-79-digest)
To: fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks61-79-digest V1 #267
Reply-To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks61-79-digest Monday, October 6 1997 Volume 01 : Number 267



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
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message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: roller camshafts [John MacNamara ]
freezing block - anti freeze [Sleddog ]
RE: roller camshafts [Sleddog ]
Re: freezing block - anti freeze ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
RE: Cooling Fan Options??? ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
missed digest [jniolon uss.com]
460 roller stuff [jniolon uss.com]
Re: Cooling Fan Options??? [Mike Schwall ]
Re: Cooling Fan Options??? [sdelanty sonic.net]
Re: fordtrucks61-79-digest V1 #261 [OBKBEE aol.com]
RE: Timing causing engine vibration and poor emissions? SOLVED! ["John F.]
Re: freezing block - anti freeze [SuperMagot aol.com]
Re: Cooling Fan Options??? [SuperMagot aol.com]
Re:70 options [RL ]
Re: Anyone ?? [Brian & Jacque Milbrandt ]
Re: Cooling Fan Options??? ["Dave Resch"]
Re: freezing block - anti freeze [Brian & Jacque Milbrandt
Re: '64 F100 CrewCab Info [Jeffrey.Carver Aerojet.com (CARVER, JEFF]
Block.. [Brian & Jacque Milbrandt ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 07:25:42 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: roller camshafts

Sleddog wrote:

> yes, please post number-name etc.
>
> sleddog

Here's the phone number of a Cam grinder in the San Fernando valley that has
his own equipment and can make any cam you might want. I've forgotten his
name but he is very helpful and will do his best to get you what you want.

1-818-982-3445.

Thanks

John

78 F250 4X4 Supercab
67 GT500
66 Corvette

>
>
> ----------
> From: John MacNamara[SMTP:JohnMcn micom.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 1997 8:54 AM
> To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> Subject: Re: roller camshafts
>
> Gary, 78 BBB wrote:
> >
> > > From: Sleddog
> > > Subject: roller camshafts
> > > Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:18:08 -0400
> >
> > > searching has come up with the smallest one being about 280 .050 and
> > > .570 lift. this may suit my needs, but according to the desktop
> > > dyno runs best at 6000-8000. 6500 is all i really want to run, 7000
> > > is pushing it, so i need a "smaller" cam to deliver the power
> > > earlier on.
> >
> > I second that emotion :-) That's about all I could find but I only
> > have one catalog so far, Comp Cams. I'd like one rated for lower too
> > but even lower than that. They are available for the 335 series of
> > all things but not the 460???
> >
> > I'll be listening to this one as to mods required as well. Wish I
> > knew :-(
> >
> > The swift of foot and slow of wit
> > have more off road experiences
> >
> > -- Gary --
> > +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> > | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> > | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> > +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+
> Gary: We have a cam manufacturer out here in the San Fernando Valley. He
> made a cam for my old 400 motor. He will make you any grind you want at
> no extra cost. If your interested, I can give you his number.
>
> Thanks
> John MacNamara
>
> 78 F250 4X4 Supercab
> 67 GT500
> 66 Corvette
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:34:34 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: freezing block - anti freeze

hello all,
last year i did a stupid thing. i didn't have enough antifreeze for the
winter and a freeze plug blew out. (the hardest one to get at too!)
this year, i won't be so dumb! but, i will be rebuilding the top end this
winter/spring. i run water in the summer because of the possibly frequant
disassembly, etc. so, can anyone tell me - if i just drain the water, can
the block still freeze? i would hate to fill the thing up with antifreeze
only to waste it in a couple of monthes. i realize that all the water
doesn't drain. that is why i don't know what to do.
i can't just start removing parts before the pennsylvania winter closes in
either. the truck must be mobile as much as possible - and i can still
start the motor to move it out of (or in?) the way without coolant for a
minute or two.
any thoughts?

sleddog

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:39:41 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: roller camshafts

thank you. i'll call soon and see what they can do for me.
sleddog.

a fellow puller also mentioned a place called cam dynamics. anyone ever deal with them?

- ----------
From: John MacNamara[SMTP:JohnMcn micom.com]
Sent: Monday, October 06, 1997 10:25 AM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Subject: Re: roller camshafts



Sleddog wrote:

> yes, please post number-name etc.
>
> sleddog

Here's the phone number of a Cam grinder in the San Fernando valley that has
his own equipment and can make any cam you might want. I've forgotten his
name but he is very helpful and will do his best to get you what you want.

1-818-982-3445.

Thanks

John

78 F250 4X4 Supercab
67 GT500
66 Corvette

>
>
> ----------
> From: John MacNamara[SMTP:JohnMcn micom.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 1997 8:54 AM
> To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> Subject: Re: roller camshafts
>
> Gary, 78 BBB wrote:
> >
> > > From: Sleddog
> > > Subject: roller camshafts
> > > Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:18:08 -0400
> >
> > > searching has come up with the smallest one being about 280 .050 and
> > > .570 lift. this may suit my needs, but according to the desktop
> > > dyno runs best at 6000-8000. 6500 is all i really want to run, 7000
> > > is pushing it, so i need a "smaller" cam to deliver the power
> > > earlier on.
> >
> > I second that emotion :-) That's about all I could find but I only
> > have one catalog so far, Comp Cams. I'd like one rated for lower too
> > but even lower than that. They are available for the 335 series of
> > all things but not the 460???
> >
> > I'll be listening to this one as to mods required as well. Wish I
> > knew :-(
> >
> > The swift of foot and slow of wit
> > have more off road experiences
> >
> > -- Gary --
> > +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> > | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> > | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> > +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+
> Gary: We have a cam manufacturer out here in the San Fernando Valley. He
> made a cam for my old 400 motor. He will make you any grind you want at
> no extra cost. If your interested, I can give you his number.
>
> Thanks
> John MacNamara
>
> 78 F250 4X4 Supercab
> 67 GT500
> 66 Corvette
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+








+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:52:13 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: freezing block - anti freeze

> From: Sleddog
> Subject: freezing block - anti freeze
> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:34:34 -0400

> i just drain the water, can the block still freeze? i would hate to
> fill the thing up with antifreeze only to waste it in a couple of
> monthes. i realize that all the water doesn't drain. that is why i

There are two pipe plugs in the bottom of the block casting for this
purpose. I believe they are below the engine mounts. 1/4" or 5/16
pipe threads as I recall, one one each side. Noone ever takes them
out so you don't think about them but they are there.

Leave them out for the winter and when you go to put the coolant back
it they will remind you to put the plugs back in, trust me :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:59:24 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: RE: Cooling Fan Options???

> From: Sleddog
> Subject: RE: Cooling Fan Options???
> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:42:12 -0400

> as the belts are tight enough on the water pump). also, the plastic
> fan won't come apart ever, is extemely light and won't cut your hand
> off if you ever get too close. electric is the best choice, but the

Have you tested that theory? Remember centrigugal force will
"harden" those blades considerably :-(

> price! there is actually a certain distance the fan should be from
> the shroud.

All the OEM's I can recall working with pretty much have the fan
centered in the opening of the shroud with the blades about 2 - 3"
from the radiator.

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 10:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: jniolon uss.com
Subject: missed digest

did anyone miss digest 263 other than me ????????

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 10:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: jniolon uss.com
Subject: 460 roller stuff


reading with great interest the thread on the roller cam..

I would also like to see a mild 460 roller for my truck project
but can't seem to find one other that the big race stuff.

Also I had another question...

has anyone ever heard of oiling problems with roller rockers and
hydraulic lifters in the 460's.

My engine expert is expressing some concern over my plans to use
roller rockers and hyd lifters..saying that without the lash of solids
that insufficient oiling might be a problem

How's bout it guys...your opinions please



john

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 11:13:34 -0500
From: Mike Schwall
Subject: Re: Cooling Fan Options???

At 09:06 PM 10/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>List,
>
>OK guys it's time to haul out those opinions again!
Should I ;
>
>1) Go to the boneyard and dig up a stock fan/thermostatic clutch set-up.
>
>2) Get a new flex fan with spacers to get it centered in the shroud
>opening.
>
>3) Pitch the flex fan and go with an electric fan set-up.
>
>I'm leaning toward the electric fan but am interested in hearing your
>opinions.

Go to the junk yard and find a good 7 blade clutch fan. I found one for
mine off of a '79 F250 with thermal fan clutch. Cost me $5.00. Then go to
the local parts house and buy a heavy duty thermal fan clutch for your
truck. Take your new fan along to make sure the bolt holes line up.

I'd stay away from electric fans unless you have a 90 amp or higher
alternator. With the lights on, A/C on max, and the fans going, your going
to be pretty close to maxing out a stock 60 amp alternator. If you get
stuck in traffic a lot, you'll end up replacing batteries every other year.
Alternators don't charge very much at idle.

My $.02

Mike

_____________________________________________

Email: mikes intx.net
Home Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes
Ford Page: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.intx.net/mikes/fordarea.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:33:48 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: Cooling Fan Options???

>My question is
>about the fan. Should I ;
>
>1) Go to the boneyard and dig up a stock fan/thermostatic clutch set-up.
>
>2) Get a new flex fan with spacers to get it centered in the shroud
>opening.
>
>3) Pitch the flex fan and go with an electric fan set-up.
>
>I'm leaning toward the electric fan but am interested in hearing your
>opinions. I've read some negative comments about electric fans not moving
>enough air for slow desert crawling, etc. While I'm not currently planning
>any outing like that stop-n-go traffic is a real possibility.
>
>I'm looking forward to your comments.

I vote for #3!

I put a pair of electrics on my 71 F100. The 390 and stock modine
radiator had a tendancy to overheat on hot days when idling for long
periods. It would puke pretty bad on hot days.
Now I've got a 12" and a 14" fan side by side on the stock rad, and
it *never* overheats, even on the hottest days.
My electrics move MUCH more air than the stock FE fan ever did!
I sometimes sit idling or moving slowly on 100+ CA days. No problem.
The electrics are quieter, eat less HP off the crank, only run when
needed, and remove that heavy load that spins way out on the end of
Your water pump shaft.(I expect my H2O pump bearings to last MUCH longer)
A mechanical fan moves the most air when You need it least, (at speed)
and the least air when You need it most. (idling)
Mechanicals also eat tons of Horspower at high RPM's. (Even clutched
fans and flex fans, altho they are some better)
Electrics are much more efficient, and only run when needed.
At any sustained speed over about 25MPH mine are off...
Electrics also eat up less space in the engine compartment, and they are
MUCH less likely to chop Yer fingers off if You do something STOOPID...
I think that electrics are far superior in every respect.(except price)
Mine were about $55 each at the local parts chain.

Electric fans were one of the best mods I've done to my truck.
They work very well and I have no regrets, other than I didn't
install them sooner.

Happy motoring,

Steve Delanty


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:50:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: OBKBEE aol.com
Subject: Re: fordtrucks61-79-digest V1 #261

Dear Sir,
I have been tryng to geyt only the pre-61 digest. I only get the 61-79
I didn''t do something right. Suggestions appreciated, thank you very much,
obkbee aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 12:49:14 -0400
From: "John F. Bauer III"
Subject: RE: Timing causing engine vibration and poor emissions? SOLVED!

Thanks all for the tips. I'd taken the wires off, cleaned them up, put thme
back on, etc. Well, for the fun of it, after much other inspection,
re-seated them again this past Sunday, and vroom, totally smooth
running/firing engine. After much head scratching, I guess it might just
have been a faulty wire. What a massive pain, especially after checking it
previously. Well, chalk it up as a school boy error.

Made it around the block with massive improvement in engine vibration,
noise, power, just about everything, then the fuel pump died (clear fuel
filter shows gas drains dry back to the tank with engine off, engine won't
stay running unless pedal constantly pumped) as I coasted back into the
driveway.

John

At 02:17 PM 10/5/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I have a similar problem with my 460 shaking at idle. I always thought
>it was normal!
>
>Has the distributor or vacuum advance canister been replaced recently?
>I went through hell because the rebuilder puts on what ever vacuum
>canister they seem to have. ( all canisters are not the same. The dual
>type seem to be particularly troublesome allowing mass amounts of
>advance) I like Sleddogs' idea and would suggest you go one step further
>use a timing light to find out what is going on. ( my $.02 is with too
>much vacuum advance available initial would have to be retarded way too
>much to allow the rest of the ignition timing to be correct ) although
>the problem is probably carb related since it runs fine at higher RPMs.
>Did it pass a (if there is one ) high RPM test ?
>
>E-Mail me directly and I will go into detail regarding vac advance as I
>know it.
>
>Dana
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
>| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
>+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 13:23:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: SuperMagot aol.com
Subject: Re: freezing block - anti freeze

My $0.02 -

Put in the proper mix of antifreeze/water, run the engine for a few minutes
to circulate it, then drain it. The antifreeze/water mix can be kept over
the winter in a container or used somewhere else. I strongly suggest YOU DO
NOT leave any amount of pure water in the engine. Even a small pocket can
freeze and expand and break something.

Antifreeze is cheap compared to tearing down a block!!

Also, running pure water at any time is bad idea. Modern antifreeze also
contains anti-rust compounds. Pure water will rust out the inside of your
cooling system no matter the tempature. Again, anti-freeze is cheap.

Being cheap in the short run often costs in the long run!

- - Mike

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 13:26:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: SuperMagot aol.com
Subject: Re: Cooling Fan Options???

One thing to keep in mind about electrics, some of them come with those
little plastic wires that stick throught the radiator fins. These things
will vibrate and bounce around over time and break your radiator. (Speaking
from experience) I strongly suggest you build a permamement mounting bracket
or frame for your fans so that the fans weight are NOT supported by the
radiator itself.

- - Mike

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:35:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: RL
Subject: Re:70 options

Okay I was out looking at trucks at the local sell your own. Saw a really
nice blue 73&up Custom and a 70 3 spd. Well the 70 had what looked like to
me a sun visor from JCW. But on the info list the guy said it was a rare
factory fiberglass eye(?)(I can't remeber what he called it) Anway I've
never seen that before on a truck. It is all in black striaght body no
rust. Had outdated Louisianina(sp) plates. On more thing. On the 73 it had
aftermarket side mirrors but they didn't cover up the old holes and it
left a big hole in the drivers door. Repainted and looked sharp. So is it
hard to fix that? I wouldn't buy it because of the door bing rusted out.
Thanks
Ryan


1971 Torino 500, 1971 F-100, 1977 Hornet Sportabout,
1978 New Yorker e-mail: st0478 student-mail.jsu.edu
Homepage: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/9027


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 12:40:45 -0500
From: Brian & Jacque Milbrandt
Subject: Re: Anyone ??

I'm looking to rebuild fresh, I originally had block bored .30 over,
new trw 10.50:1 pistons, rhoades cam & lifters, performer manifold, L&L
headers, Holley 650...and was quite happy. I'm not a real motor head,
I'm more into the drive line/suspension stuff.
I'm looking to make this motor get up and go!!. I've had block boiled
and new frost plugs and cam bearings installed. I'm sending crank out
for fresh grinding and bearings matched. But from there I'm not sure as
to what path to take.
I'm thinking about a 292 cam with matched springs & lifters. heavy
pushrods, Possible the performer rpm manifold, a gear drive, possibly a
predator carb. Don't know much about what I'd need for a torque
convertor. and really if that cam would do what I want.
Basically I want to have a noticable lopey idle, and lots of low end
power. the 64' f100 will be a toy...not a daily driver...but I want to
be able to take it on a long cruise.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:44:54 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: Cooling Fan Options???

Yo Dale:

Here are my 0.02 worth of fan opinions.

>1) Go to the boneyard and dig up a stock fan/thermostatic clutch set-up.

This would be my first recommendation. The stock fan will move way more
air than anything comparable in electric units. As far as I know, the
M-block engines in trucks never used fan clutches, always direct drive on
the front of the water pump. The stock fan will probably move air better
than the flex fan, but the flex fan might give you better performance (eat
less hp) at higher revs. The flex fan is probably lighter, which would
save you a couple of pounds of weight, if you care about that.

>2) Get a new flex fan with spacers to get it centered in the shroud
opening.
This is my second-best choice. At least replace the fan so that you have
full coverage, or the maximum air movement that the fan can produce. I
have toyed w/ the idea of trying a flex fan, but I'm skeptical that it
would provide the air flow necessary and be a worthwhile performance
enhancement at 4K rpm or less.

The factory fan in my truck w/ 351M is a five blade job w/ odd spacing
(prevents harmonic noises). Behind the fan is a four inch spacer that sits
on the front of the water pump. From blade tip to shroud is about 1 inch
at top, over two inches at bottom (not centered, obviously). The fan is
spaced so that the blades are about halfway into the shroud.

>3) Pitch the flex fan and go with an electric fan set-up.
Don't do it, unless ambient air temperature never gets above 80F and you
don't do stop & go city driving. I read an article in one of the 4x4 rags
a while back that a decent stock fan moves at least twice as much air w/
the engine at idle(!) than an electric fan of the same size. With the
engine at speed, the elec fan is even weaker by comparison.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)
1980 F250 4x4 351M

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 12:48:56 -0500
From: Brian & Jacque Milbrandt
Subject: Re: freezing block - anti freeze

I can tell you that up here in Minnesota it gets real cold...I drain
the water from my boat (inboard) and put nothing back in and it hasn't
cracked or pushed out a plug in the 37 years its been in our family. As
the water freezes...if any left it will take the easiest path as it
expands. so it will move through the water jackets that are empty.
before forcing its way through the block.

Brian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:47:16 -0700
From: Jeffrey.Carver Aerojet.com (CARVER, JEFFREY D)
Subject: Re: '64 F100 CrewCab Info....


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