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Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:01:48 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks61-79-digest)
To: fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks61-79-digest V1 #257
Reply-To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks61-79-digest Friday, October 3 1997 Volume 01 : Number 257



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
To unsubscribe, send email to:
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with the word "unsubscribe" in the body of the message. For help, send
email to the same address with the word "help" in the body of the
message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: ford 9" rearend search ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Digest Replies ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Wandering dash gauges ["Bonzai !" ]
15" tires ? [GMPACHECO aol.com]
Holley Rant [pharrell bae.uga.edu (Graphics & Research Fabrication)]
Re: 1999 F250/F350 prototype photos from a list member [Ken Payne
Re : ford 9" rearend search [ccotten entergy.com]
[Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: not.me: host not found)] [Brian & Jacque Milbrandt
Re: Holley Rant ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re:I'm confused about Transmission Codes [ccotten entergy.com]
Re: ford 9" rearend search [sdelanty sonic.net]
Re : ford 9" rearend search ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Holley Rant [pharrell bae.uga.edu (Graphics & Research Fabrication)]
Re:I'm confused about Transmission Codes ["Gary, 78 BBB"
The '57 gets Killed... [Steve & Rockette ]
Re: The '57 gets Killed... [Ken Payne ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 07:22:07 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: ford 9" rearend search

> From: jniolon uss.com
> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 15:42 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: ford 9" rearend search

> going junkyard hunting soon for a 9" ford 28 spline limited
> slip or traction lock..

Don't mean to be snide but why on earth would you actually look for
the 28 spline when the 31 is far superior in every way and the track
loc was made for it as well??? Especially if you are getting the
whole rear end? Or are you just looking for the third member? I
have one in good condition with new clutches and 4.11 gears that I'll
never use since the 31's are what I consider absolute minimum now.
Near Ann Arbor, MI if you're interested :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 07:51:27 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Digest Replies

> From: "Dale and Donna Carmine"
> Subject: Digest Replies
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:21:53 -0500

> I've had the same problem. What seems to work best is to highlight
> the text you want to reference, then click edit/copy on your top
> toolbar. Then when you get to the point in your message where you
> want to reference the previous message just click edit/paste in your

This seems to me a good way to do it with large files like the
digests. I usually hit reply and include the whole message and edit
it but with large files this suggestion makes more sense. With
windows I use the shift del and shift ins from the key board and
never have to touch the mouse. All windows programs use this method
for cut and paste. To delete press the shift key and cursor down to
the point you want included, release the shift key and press del and
it's gone, to copy continue holding the shift key and press del and
to put it back (paste) press shift and ins. I love it. Presonally I
think it's a little better that Ctrl K K, Ctrl K C and Ctrl K V to do
the same thing in word star :-)


The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 08:29:21 -0700
From: "Bonzai !"
Subject: Wandering dash gauges

Reading about gauge problems brought up something which happened to my
79 Bronco a few years ago:
It seemed as if my engine was running real warm, according to the
gauge. Then, the temp. would fluctuate, as with any normal temp.
gauge. HOWEVER, I noticed that, when the Temp fluctuated, the other
gauges did also....HA I checked the wiring along the left inside frame
rail, and found a "bare spot" that, when it slightly moved around,
caused the mis-readings.

I taped it up, and it saved me buying a new radiator. No more
"overheating" problems.

Paul Gayda

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:33:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: GMPACHECO aol.com
Subject: 15" tires ?

I have another question that sort of relates to this, I have a friend that
has 14" tires on his 73' Ranchero and want to change spindle and tires to
15". What vehicles can he rob from at the junk yard to change this, or is
there another source to get these parts?


Mike In Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 97 08:41: 0 EDT
From: pharrell bae.uga.edu (Graphics & Research Fabrication)
Subject: Holley Rant

To those of you who have problems with Holley carburetors, the following is a
copy of correspondence between me and Holley's technical support, and an example
of what you can expect. I think it speaks for itself. You'll notice that my truck
is a 1980 model but has more in common with the 79 and back so that's why I'm on
this list.

- --- Begin Included Message ---

Nothing in the calibration of the carburetor via jets or metering plates
will cure the condition that you have described. The carburetor is just
plain flooding due to high fuel pressure, float levels, blown powervalve or
over torqued powervalve. Debris in the needle and seat as well as blockage
of a bleed or orifice would cause the same thing. Check the floats for
bouyancy. tkyou
----------
From: Patrick Harrell
To: support
Subject: 3160 (0-9834) running rich
Date: Tuesday, September 30, 1997 2:44PM

I installed a new Holley 4160 with part number #0-98934 on a completely
rebuilt 302 in a full-size 1980 Ford Bronco. Idling was a problem and I
found that I have to have the secondary throttle plates completely closed
in order for the engine to have any idle and performance. You (and the
instructions)advised that they should be opened just enough to expose a
fraction of the secondary transfer slots but this carb will not operate
in that position. I have finally gotten a measure of performance (not
what I have had though), but I still cannot keep the carb from running
rich. I have about 11-12" of vacuum at idle in gear. I replaced the 6.5
power valve with a 5 or 5.5 as per your suggestions. I tried smaller main
jets (61 verus the 68 that came installed) and noticed no difference. Of
course I have adjusted float levels, and installed a fuel pressure
regulator to regulate down to 4-5 psi. I have no detectable vacuum leaks,
gaskets are good, and have found no clogged passages. Mileage dropped
from 15 mpg with a Ford 2150 two barrel to a best of 8mpg with the 4160.
I expected better mileage, especially with staying out of the
secondaries. The only thing I haven't tried was replacing the secondary
jetplate with a smaller one as was suggested by a local mechanic. I am
not sure but I believe the stock jetplate is a #9. I don't have the specs
with me. Tailpipes are sooty black and it will spray the cars next to it
with black specks if you rev it at all. What effect would going to a
smaller jet plate have? How much smaller can I go. The truck is just
running (and idling) way too rich.

Thanks for any help! I'm at my wit's end.

Patrick Harrell
pharrell bae.uga.edu
Driftmier Engineering Center
University of Georgia
Athens, GA 3602

- --- End Included Message ---

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 09:26:01 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: 1999 F250/F350 prototype photos from a list member

At 08:38 PM 10/2/97 PDT, you wrote:
>
>>The 1980+ list will really appreciate this since it seems to
>>be the hot topic right now..... but all the lists are being
>>notified.
>>
>>A list member who lives near the Ford testing grounds saw the
>>F250/F350 prototype in a local parking lot at night. Most of
>>the hood area is concealed with plastic and the two photos are
>>grainy since its night. However, the grill shots do show a
>>"meaty" looking front end on this short bed crew cab. Follow
>>the link on our home page. I didn't skrink down the pictures
>>for the web site. That way you can see as much detail as
>>possible since this is a night shot and its very difficult so
>>see much.
>>
>>Before anyone jumps down my throat for displaying these...
>>these pictures are not "spy shots". Had Ford not wanted this
>>truck to be seen they wouldn't have driven it to a department
>>store. I will not show spy shots on the site as I believe in
>>not letting Ford's competition know what they have planned.
>>These photos just confirm a little of what Ford showed on their
>>truck that's been displayed at the auto shows.
>
>
>There is also a few day shot in the "Ford Truckin'" F100 Special
>put out by "Truckin'" Magazine. Its got a Summer '97 date.
>
>Mike
>

And I thought I had an exclusive! Perhaps I'll just point the
web site to better pictures on the net. Mine are really
fuzzy.

Ken

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Oct 97 09:09:47 CST
From: ccotten entergy.com
Subject: Re : ford 9" rearend search

John wrote,

> going junkyard hunting soon for a 9" ford 28 spline
>limited slip or
> traction lock..
>
> found an old yard with "wander and pull" privileges...
>
> I seem to remember somewhere a list of vehicles that
>showed which had
> the limited slip with 28 spline but can't find it.
>
> Is there a quick way,(make and model, i.d. plates,
>rearend tags, etc)
> other than pulling the axles to tell if it's what I'm
>looking for.

According to the '79 Ford Light Truck Manual for the Bronco
and F100 - F350 the Axle code for Limited slips are:

H3 - 3750# 2.75
H2 - 3750# 3.50
H9 - 3750# 4.11
H4 - 3750# 3.25
B4 - 5300# 4.10 Dana
C7 - 5300# 3.54 Dana
C8 - 5300# 3.73 Dana
D7 - 7400# 4.10 Dana

There is also a tag on the axle, if it hasn't been lost or
destroyed. On the Dana axle, it should have a L-S in the
lower right hand corner. For the Ford axle there should be
a letter L in the ratio number in the lower left corner.
The ratio on the Dana is in the upper left corner.

I'm not certain but I've been led to believe that the 31
spline axle is on the locking axles. I don't think you will
find a 28 spline in the limited slip axle.

Keep us posted on what you find.

Clark Cotten


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 09:38:41 -0500
From: Brian & Jacque Milbrandt
Subject: [Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: not.me: host not found)]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --------------793661E0964
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Your address failed...also if the cap on the old style hubs is not put
back on properly it can cause the hub to lock and not be returned to the
unlock position. try rotating the hub cap one screw hole each way to see
if it will work properly...also I do have a spicer/dana catalog with
part #s for these hubs from about 10 years ago when I owned and operated
a 4wheel drive shop here in Minnesota.

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Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 09:25:14 -0500
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You may find that you don't have to replace the hubs...the older fords
used a dana/spicer multi piece assembly that is very easy to repair. Its
just not as easy as the new style one piece. The older ones are a much
stronger system though. If you pull the cap off...by removing the allen
screws on the hub you will be able to turn the knob and unlock the hub,
then replace it and you should be back in free wheel...let me know how
ya do..Brian

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 10:43:31 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Holley Rant

> From: pharrell bae.uga.edu (Graphics & Research Fabrication)
> Subject: Holley Rant
> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 97 08:41: 0 EDT

> Nothing in the calibration of the carburetor via jets or metering
> plates will cure the condition that you have described. The
> carburetor is just plain flooding due to high fuel pressure, float
> levels, blown powervalve or over torqued powervalve. Debris in the
> needle and seat as well as blockage of a bleed or orifice would
> cause the same thing. Check the floats for bouyancy.

> I installed a new Holley 4160 with part number #0-98934 on a
> completely rebuilt 302 in a full-size 1980 Ford Bronco. Idling was a

What they say is basically true. I've had two holley 4160's and they
are definitely not your most economical type but they will definitely
run well and without flooding with the right set up.

Number one, is this the right version for the stock 302? Is your
engine actually stock? If Yes to both then at least one of the
things they told you has to be the culprit. You can only jet down so
far before the engine starts missing at cruise and WOT. If you
haven't reached that point yet maybe you do need to go down some more
but it's unlikely jets would cause that much richness unless they
were way off.

There is another possible culprit and I have personal experience with
this one. My intake manifold was not properly installed and the carb
does not sit flat on the mount so I had to loosen two nuts to relieve
the twist in the housing to get the secondarys to go completely home
so it would idle. This twisting can also unseat some stuff and one
place I don't think they mentioned was the check ball in the
accellerator pump. I got it in the wrong hole once and it flooded
but mine wouldn't run very well at all like that so maybe thats not
it. Over torquing the power valve will unseat the valve allowing it
to leak all the time.

On the secondaries, the slightly open at idle thing is for built
engines that require high rpm idles and relieves the primary throttle
plate a bit so it DOESN'T go past the transition slot which causes an
over rich idle :-)

I don't have my catalog with me so can't look it up, you didn't say
what the CFM was?

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Oct 97 09:34:49 CST
From: ccotten entergy.com
Subject: Re:I'm confused about Transmission Codes

Thanks Gary for your reply,

Is there some identifying tag somewhere that would indicate
which ratio set is in there? You are right about the rear
end ratio. I'm not really happy with the 2.75 rear end and
would like to move to a 3.50 but I just haven't gone
shopping enough yet for a used 3rd member. I do some towing
with this truck and it's a real struggle the way it's geared
now. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

>> I have a '79 F100 302 C6(I think) in pretty much
>>factory

>Can't help with the sticker codes, sorry :-(

>> I'd also like to know the ratios in each of the
>>gears of
>> this transmission. I'm guessing 3rd is 1:1, but
>>what are the
>> others?

>There were two ratio sets in 79 for the C-6 and the wide
>ratio is
>still available as a retrofit under the E4OD kit in the SVO
>catalog
>but I don't know the actual ratios. My guess with 2.75
>gears is
>that you have the wide ratio but I can't imagine 2.75's
>with a 302
>even with the wide ratio gear set???

Clark Cotten

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:02:38 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: ford 9" rearend search

> going junkyard hunting soon for a 9" ford 28 spline limited slip or
> traction lock..
>
> found an old yard with "wander and pull" privileges...
>
> I seem to remember somewhere a list of vehicles that showed which had
> the limited slip with 28 spline but can't find it.
>
> Is there a quick way,(make and model, i.d. plates, rearend tags, etc)
> other than pulling the axles to tell if it's what I'm looking for.

I don't know how to tell a 31 spline from a 28 spline without pulling
an axle, but You've got my curiosity up... Is there some reason why
You need a 28 spline axle, and cant "settle" for a 31-spline?

Happy motoring,

Steve Delanty


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:17:43 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re : ford 9" rearend search

> From: ccotten entergy.com
> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 97 09:09:47 CST
> Subject: Re : ford 9" rearend search

> I'm not certain but I've been led to believe that the 31
> spline axle is on the locking axles. I don't think you will
> find a 28 spline in the limited slip axle.

I got one from a 75 van and it's available with 4.11 gears and new
clutches if anyone's interested :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 97 11:41:44 EDT
From: pharrell bae.uga.edu (Graphics & Research Fabrication)
Subject: Re: Holley Rant

Here's the deal. All that Holley mentioned, I had already tried or checked out.
I had put in a pressure regulator (with a guage), so pressure wasn't the problem.
Set float levels (new carb, so new floats)..not the problem.
New lower rated power valve. By the way, I'm sure it's not overtight, but how could
that cause any binding? The way they're made it doesn't look like it would be
a problem. I took it off and blew all passages, and installed a really good inline
filter..so trash isn't the problem. They say it's "just plain flooding".
True. It's really running rich at idle. It seems to run okay at cruise, but
main jet size doesn't affect idle. Something I read in a Holley aftermarket book
suggests placing a small wire in the idle circuit to reduce fuel flow. Holley
doesn't mention this and I'm wondering how large a wire would do it, and more
importantly, why would you have to? The book suggests to do this instead of
enlarging the air bleed size because doing that would really affect too many
other things. The carb is a 600 cfm 4160 (vacuum secondaries) # 0-9834, which
is a general replacement carb that comes with a #64 main jets (I believe I
remember correctly). The 302 is basically stock with a MILD RV camshaft.
So, Gary (or anybody else), got any ideas?
- -------------------------------
From Holley technical support:

> Nothing in the calibration of the carburetor via jets or metering
> plates will cure the condition that you have described. The
> carburetor is just plain flooding due to high fuel pressure, float
> levels, blown powervalve or over torqued powervalve. Debris in the
> needle and seat as well as blockage of a bleed or orifice would
> cause the same thing. Check the floats for bouyancy.
- ------------------------------
Pat

Patrick Harrell
pharrell bae.uga.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:30:30 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re:I'm confused about Transmission Codes

> From: ccotten entergy.com
> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 97 09:34:49 CST
> Subject: Re:I'm confused about Transmission Codes

> Is there some identifying tag somewhere that would indicate
> which ratio set is in there? You are right about the rear end
> ratio. I'm not really happy with the 2.75 rear end and would
> like to move to a 3.50 but I just haven't gone shopping enough
> yet for a used 3rd member. I do some towing with this truck
> and it's a real struggle the way it's geared now. Any
> suggestions would be appreciated.

I'm not familiar with all the tag codes and don't have any books on
it yet but with a 2.75 gearing I would bet you already have this.

The problem is that the 302 doesn't have enough torque to support
wide ratios in a heavy vehicle and really needs an over drive. The
AOD would be a good transplant and would keep your top end close to
what you have now with the 3.5 gearing (let me go visit my spread
sheet, just a moment) I'm back, the 2.75 at 60 mph with 29" tires is
1912 rpm. With 3.50's you would be running 2434 with the
present setup and with a 25% overdrive it would be 1826 so with an
over drive you could go even lower and still get good economy but
would pull much better in the lower gears and it would give you one
more gear which the 302 really needs IMHO :-)

I don't know off hand what the overdrive actually is but most I've
seen listed seem to be around .8 in which case 3.86 would net you
2145 at 60 with 29" tires but would give you some nice torque in the
lower gears. 3.55 would give you 1975 which is a slight improvement
over your current condition in top gear but would give you more
options in the lower gears. The GT mustangs ran 2000 rpm or so in
top gear but they had Hypo engines and light vehicle weight and
weren't designed to tow but they got good mileage at that rpm.

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 09:35:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve & Rockette
Subject: The '57 gets Killed...

Tuesday night, someone stole the '57 ( the one in Mother Kens photo gallery)
while She Who Must Be Obeyed and I were shopping for a new stereo for the
'63.

This morning the State Patrol called, the person who stole it is in the
hospital with multiple fractures. He apparently lost control during a "medium
speed" chase, dropped a wheel off the pavement on a curve, spun 270 degrees
into the path of a mid 80's C-word.

I'm almost too scared to go and look at it, I have spent ten years with
that old
truck, it improved every year, and this winter was going to have a 429 stuffed
into her.

Oh well..... The best laid plans of mice & men.........


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