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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:38:40 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks61-79-digest)
To: fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks61-79-digest V1 #249
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fordtrucks61-79-digest Tuesday, September 30 1997 Volume 01 : Number 249



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
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message.
=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: the smog police are coming [schrozak idt.net (Chuck Schroeder)]
Re: Ohm's law [danadeb pacbell.net]
DISC BRAKE CONVERSION [Stuart Varner ]
Re: the smog police are coming [Don Grossman ]
FW: Ammeter help!! [Tom Hogan ]
Re: DISC BRAKE CONVERSION [Don Grossman ]
Re: Fuel tank coatings (off subject) [Tom Hogan
Re: Fuel tank coatings (off subject) ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
352 Rebuild ["Brian Forbes" ]
Puzzle [Jim Freyburger ]
Drum to disk. [Schottsweb webtv.net (George Schott)]
Re: Drum to disk. [Ken Payne ]
Re: the smog police are coming [danadeb pacbell.net]
ADMIN: Window sticker info [Ken Payne ]
question!? [KEVIN ]
NEW TO THE LIST 1963 F-100 [Rich Lobrovich ]
Noise diagnosis (please) [Kevin Lindstedt ]
Re: Noise diagnosis (please) [Ken Payne ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:42:30 -0400
From: schrozak idt.net (Chuck Schroeder)
Subject: Re: the smog police are coming

>From: jniolon uss.com
>Subject: the smog police are coming
>

> All you guys in Cal. have to deal with the smog police and yearly
> inspections/testing, but here in Ala (the 51st state to ever do
> anything) we are still inspection free.
>
> Lately there in Birmingham the ozone levels have been bringing out the
> red flags and EPA rules have been broken so there are rumblings about
> inspections/testing and "Formulated fuels" (methanol, ethanol, PTME or
> whatever)

Sorry to hear about Birmingham. When I was there 30 years ago, an air
quality problem was beyond remote.

The guys in CA are certainly the experts in this area, but Jersey has a law
which might have an Alabama counterpart.

If you have a "historic or antique vehicle" you can register in Jersey with
"QQ" plates. This exempts you from state inspection. You have to put up
with some restrictions (insurance company imposed) like a limit on your
annual mileage, a garage for the truck, submitting pictures of the truck
with your insurance application, etc. My insurance costs $60 a year. I
can't drive more than 3000 miles per.

Good law. Saves some worthy vintage iron in numbers so small that there's
no environmental impact.

Just a thought.

Chuck Schroeder
64 F600 Stake Dump

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 07:29:25 -0700
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Ohm's law

Steve,

5000lbs = F

32 FpS2 = A( assuming this is correct for gravity)

x Stones = M

F = M x A OR M = F / A

- -------156.25 Stones = 5000 Lbs / 32 FpS2-------

(WRONG ANSWER 510.20 = 5000 lbs / 9.8 Newtons ( #$% METRIC))

But where did 7140 come from ?

Im starting to feel mathematically challenged!

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:45:54 -0700
From: Stuart Varner
Subject: DISC BRAKE CONVERSION

Greetings and saluatations fellow Ford nutcases!
A combination of two events, almost running over a pedestrian in a
residential/college section of town (idiots think they always have the
right of way)and READING all this talk of disc brake conversions has
inspired me, the feeble minded shade tree mechanic of little experience
with brakes, to ask the question about my 71 F-100 4X4......

Can we convert the old drums to disc? We are, of course, talking about
a very different beast than our IBeam two wheel counter parts. Also,
has anyone ever converted a 4x4 from manual steering to power? Any
ideas, thoughts, knowledge on this one? The potential for increasing
stopping distances excites me more than the law allows. THANX!

Being a "digester", I recieve digests through the night while away from
my terminal so I can get a little behind on conversations. For that
reason, I will post the following parts requests again and periodically
from here after.

CUSTOM badges for 68-72 models bed - prefer new or in excellent shape!
No longer in production and obsolete companies have yet to make them.

1982 Mustang GT Ford autolite 2100/2150 2BBL carb with larger power
valve in front ---core ok
Looking to replace the old 2100 Autolite with a "little" more power and
economy.

Gear shift knob for New Process 435 4 speed tranny. My old knob looks
like h*%#.


Thanks for your help. Private email repsonses are OK.

Stu
'71 F-100 4x4
'89 Merc Grand Marq (soon to be replaced with 96 Mustang COBRA 4 CAMMER)
'95 Special Service Crown Vicky

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:41:34 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: the smog police are coming

danadeb pacbell.net wrote:
>
> John.
>
> Here in California we have some really strange smog regs.
>
> 1. 1955 and older don't need smog check at all.
> 2. 1956-1965 only need smog check at title transfer.
> 3. 1966-present needs smog check at title transfer and every two
> years thereafter.
>

Just a question about part 2 there. I have purchased a 63, 65, and a 58
within the last two years and no smog check has ever been needed on
these vehicles. I have not even been able to find any smog related
requirements such as PPM's or anything if you have any let me know, I
want to know howmuch cleaner my truck is running than when it was new.
:-)

About that part 3. The every two years is under county laws. I live in
Mendocino County and no two year smog check is necessary.

> There is a new law SB-42 if the Governor signs it that would make 1973
> and older completely exempt and in 5 years it would be a rolling 30 or
> older exemption ( in 2002 1974 and older, 2003 1975 and older etc. )

The latest that I have heard on SB-42 was that they were going to change
it to 1975 and then in 2001 make it a floating 25 years and newer.

>
> what I have done regarding smog checks:
>
> On a 1956 F100 I had to get it smogged once when I registered it. It
> filled the room up with smoke but it still passed, ( that's the one that
> only had 15 push rods. I.E. 7 cylinders ) for that year the regs are
> very
> liberal. After that I could do as I pleased.

I have never had a vehicle even looked at by the DMV, All they ever ask
me for is the paperwork.

> On my 1970 F250 had to smog it to transfer title and every other year
> there after. I kept it externally stock, had all the hoses etc. Cam and
> other internals? Who's going to check, as long as it is still within
> specs at the tail pipe.( I have never failed a test. )
>
> Since you don't have smog regs now you can probably do whatever you want
> and it will be Grandfathered ( I.E. was changed before law went into
> effect ) if you do get smog checks. Worst case you spend some time in a
> pick-your-part getting carb, manifold, dist, hoses, switches, heck just
> buy the whole engine. (swap, get smog check, swap back)
>
> A change happened here a number of years ago.
>
> Old law:
>
> If you swapped an engine, it needed to meet the smog regs of the model
> year auto/truck it was being put in. ( I.E. 1975 engine in a 56 needed
> to meet the 56 smog regs )
>
> New Law
>
> If you swapped an engine, it needed to meet the smog regs of the model
> year auto/truck it was taken from. ( I.E. 1975 engine in a 56 needed to
> meet the 75 smog regs )Ouch!!!!!!!

If nobody ever looks under the hood how are they going to tell if you
have a 75 engine in a 56?

> You should get political, write/E-mail your State Assembly, Governor,
> Etc. and suggest they look at California's SB-42 as a sensible way to
> deal with the problem for older vehicles.
>
> Good luck whatever you decide.
>
> Dana


- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net


63 Ford F-250 4x4 67' 390, t-98, Spicer 24, Dana 60, Dana 44

Phase 172: rebuild front suspension

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:49:25 -0700
From: Tom Hogan
Subject: FW: Ammeter help!!

Daniel,
You're right. A fusible link shouldn't have much more resistance that a
regular wire. Worse yet, if you did use it as a shunt and the load on
the charging system when up the fuse would probably blow routing all
current through the ammeter and let the smoke out of the meter too! I
got the wire at a local auto parts warehouse. I told them I wanted a
resistance wire that went from the ignition switch to the control module
on electronic ignition in a Ford auto. I didn't have a model or year to
work with but the parts chimp was really good and was able to find it
anyway; AND they had it in stock. Maybe someone else out there knows a
model and year you can use. I actually tried electronic supply houses
and wire distributers and let me tell you the chimps don't only work at
autoparts stores. (Blank Stare, Drooling, Grunt 'OOP, Ack,
pppphhfffttt' other Bill the cat noises, "you want WHAT???") When I
did find a wire distributor who knew what I wanted it was in lots of
$500 or more!

Getting the six wires to fit wasn't a problem. To get to the shunt I
had to unwrap the entire harness. I was going to rewrap it with tape
but then I saw someone's suggestion to use that plastic conduit that new
cars have. That worked ok but the stuff I could get was a little too
small in some places. The store only had one size. I asked if they had
anything larger and got the usual blank stare. I went with the conduit
anyway because I wanted to be able to monitor the shunt and make sure it
wasn't overheating.

When I calculated the shunt resistance I wanted I came up with a value
of 0.02 ohms. I had a meter internal resistance of 0.7 ohms and I
figured a peak current of 50 amps. The meter is at full deflection at
0.9 amps through the meter. The 0.02 should give 0.9 amps through the
meter at 50 amp peak alternator output. The resistance I ended up with
was 1.2 ohms. Much larger than I wanted but the meter seems to work ok.
In most cases the battery will be at near full charge anyway so I
believe it is rare that the alternator puts out more that an amp or two
anyway. You might try asking the electronic stores for a high current
resistor. Something that would carry 50 amp in the range of 1 ohm. Or
get the largest current carrying resistor they carry in the lowest
resistance value and gang them up in parallel to get the current
carrying capability. (Two 1 ohm resistors in parallel = 0.5 ohms etc.)

The other thing I thought of on the way into work this morning was that
I could have removed all of the insulation from the shunt wires, twisted
them together, soldered them in place and used heat shrink tubing and
electrical tape to insulate the shunt.

Good luck and let me know if you have any more questions.


Tom H
San Francisco, California
76 F-150 SuperCab 390FE
96 Windstar 200 hp 3.8L (Wife's Hot Rod)

>----------
>From: Daniel H. Jenkins[SMTP:djenkins honors.unr.edu]
>Sent: Monday, September 29, 1997 7:11 PM
>To: Tom Hogan
>Subject: Re: Ammeter help!!
>
>Quick question for you: WHere in the devil did you manage to find
>resistance wire?? I've actually called one of the local electronic supply
>stores and they don't have any idea what it is. Is there another name for
>the stuff, perhaps? All anybody I've talked to has been able to come up
>with is possibly fusible links, but we all think those are going to have
>too little resistance. THanks for your help. BTW, how did you hide a
>relatively large (six individiual wires) shunt inside the wiring harness?
>Thanks!
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>Daniel H. JenkinsFood for thought: John Milton
>djenkins honors.unr.eduwrote _Paradise_Lost_; When his
>Honors Programwife died he wrote _Paradise_
>University of Nevada, Reno_Regained_...
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:57:43 -0800
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: DISC BRAKE CONVERSION

Stuart Varner wrote:
>
> Greetings and saluatations fellow Ford nutcases!
> A combination of two events, almost running over a pedestrian in a
> residential/college section of town (idiots think they always have the
> right of way)and READING all this talk of disc brake conversions has
> inspired me, the feeble minded shade tree mechanic of little experience
> with brakes, to ask the question about my 71 F-100 4X4......

There are two ways to go about this. The first most practicle way of
doing it would be to swap out the front end with a unit from 76-79
having the disk brakes of course.

The second way is a little trick taken from the Bronco folks(66-77).
You will need to get a hold of a set of Ch*by spindles and brake
calipers and caliper brackets, not to mention a set of Ford hub/rotor
assemblies. Anything off of a 1/2ton Ch*by will work. You will also
have to change from spindle bolts to studs to hold everying together.

There will be lots of little details that I can post to the list if
anyone is interested or you can just get back to me privately Stu.

One other little thing. Now would be a great time to upgrade to
PowerBrakes since you will be replacing the master cylinder with a
disk/drum unit. I used a booster from a 65 on my 63 and it made a big
difference.

> Can we convert the old drums to disc? We are, of course, talking about
> a very different beast than our IBeam two wheel counter parts. Also,
> has anyone ever converted a 4x4 from manual steering to power? Any
> ideas, thoughts, knowledge on this one? The potential for increasing
> stopping distances excites me more than the law allows. THANX!

Do you really want to "increase" your stopping distance?
> Thanks for your help. Private email repsonses are OK.
>
> Stu

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net


63 Ford F-250 4x4 67' 390, t-98, Spicer 24, Dana 60, Dana 44

Phase 172: rebuild front suspension

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:08:34 -0700
From: Tom Hogan
Subject: Re: Fuel tank coatings (off subject)

Amen to respecting gasoline.

Reminds me of a story a friend of mine told me. When RD was a young lad
he had to rake up all of the leaves in the fall. This is in a rural
setting so when they were done they would put them in a drainage ditch
near the house and burn them. They would use a little gas to get the
fire going (don't ask me why I always thought dry leaves had pretty good
combustibility on their own). He had done this with his dad several
times and this time he was alone. RD put the leaves in the ditch and
poured on the gas. I can't remember how much but enough to sprinkle
from one end of the ditch to the other and cover all of the leaves.
Then he realized he forgot the match so he went to get one. While he
was gone the gasoline vaporized and the leaves acted as a sponge to hold
the vapors in the ditch. There was little wind and gas vapors are
apparently heavier than air so the gas was quite happy to sit in the
ditch in the ideal air/fuel ratio. RD came back, struck the match and
threw it into the ditch. The resulting pyrotechnic display completely
vaporized ALL of the leaves. Shocked the $*!+ out of RD. Luckily no
one was hurt.

I heard of someone else that used gas instead of diesel in a smudge pot
to keep their well house from freezing up in the winter. But that's
another story.....


Tom H
San Francisco, California
76 F-150 SuperCab 390FE
96 Windstar 200 hp 3.8L (Wife's Hot Rod)


________________________________________
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 22:08:09 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: Fuel tank coatings

>2 gals makes one heck of a fire if it ever gets loose. I blew myself
>up trying to burn some brush and only put about a pint on the pile.
>(big pile) What a surprise that was! :-( Arms and legs peeled for
>weeks but no permantent damage except my pride :-)

Yeah, just a dab'll do Ya..! I used about 1/2 cup of coleman fuel
(white gas) to start the BBQ one time... It took several weeks for my
eyebrows to grow back!
The "one match" charcoal starter.. )-:
Gasoline deserves PLENTY of respect!!



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 12:44:41 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Fuel tank coatings (off subject)

> From: Tom Hogan
> Subject: Re: Fuel tank coatings (off subject)
> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:08:34 -0700

> match so he went to get one. While he was gone the gasoline
> vaporized and the leaves acted as a sponge to hold the vapors in the
> ditch. There was little wind and gas vapors are apparently heavier
> than air so the gas was quite happy to sit in the ditch in the ideal
> air/fuel ratio. RD came back, struck the match and threw it into

This is exactly what must have happened but I assumed, due to a
pretty good breeze that it wouldn't be a problem. The brush was
thick enough however to act as a container with just the right amount
of air :-(

I've burned brush this way all my life and never even has a close
call because I alway respeced it and used a wad of news paper to toss
from a safe distance into the pile. This time I was distracted,
reached down right next to the pile with an extended butane starter
and pulled the trigger. WHAAAAAAMMMMM! What a surprise!


The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:07:51 -0500
From: "Brian Forbes"
Subject: 352 Rebuild

I'm going to rebuild my 65 F-100's 352 and I'm considering changing the
internals. Can you change the crank, rods, and pistons to end up with a 390
or 410merc? Any and all advice will be appreciated.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:07:09 -0700
From: Jim Freyburger
Subject: Puzzle

I have a 67f100 short box that I just put a used 300 out of a 74..
Still need the complete ignition system (Distrubutor etc) Any
recomendations...
I bought a "Parts Truck" Long bed 67 with a good running 352 in it... I
want to keep my gas miliage high, but is there a big diff between the
352 and the 300... I will be pulling a 18 foot boat and driving to and
from work..
Thanks for any input

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:01:25 -0400
From: Schottsweb webtv.net (George Schott)
Subject: Drum to disk.

I have learned a great deal about this swap over the past couple of
weeks and would like to know one other thing while everyone is on the
subject. I have a 69 F-100 2 wd. I want to put on the discs from the you
pull-it yard this weekend my question is this> If the discs come from a
truck with power brakes will they work with a manual system or does it
have to be a power system? The reason I ask is that I know that all of
the donors have been stripped of the power accessories. Thanks for your
help.

Duke's
Fine 69

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:02:04 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: Drum to disk.

At 08:01 PM 9/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I have learned a great deal about this swap over the past couple of
>weeks and would like to know one other thing while everyone is on the
>subject. I have a 69 F-100 2 wd. I want to put on the discs from the you
>pull-it yard this weekend my question is this> If the discs come from a
>truck with power brakes will they work with a manual system or does it
>have to be a power system? The reason I ask is that I know that all of
>the donors have been stripped of the power accessories. Thanks for your
>help.
>
>Duke's
>Fine 69

They have to be power. You wouldn't have the muscle to handle
those discs. If you want full conversion info, I'll repost
a message I posted about a month ago.

Ken

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:03:27 -0700
From: danadeb pacbell.net
Subject: Re: the smog police are coming

John

I remembered something else you may have to deal with down the road.
There are many add on auto parts that are not CARB approved. (California
Air Resources Board, I think ) In California if you put a non CARB
approved fuel injection unit on an engine you would not pass the visual
(yes I said visual) part of the inspection. Even if you produced only 1%
of the emissions that you would have produced in stock form you would
not pass!( that makes sense! )

Dana

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:08:00 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: ADMIN: Window sticker info

Got a quote today and made arrangements for our static cling
window stickers, quantity 100. Supposed to meet up with them
tomorrow and give them a disk with the design....

However, at 5:00pm today I joined the ranks of the gainfully
unemployed. It'll be about a week or two before I'm employed
again (computer programmer) so the stickers are on hold till
then.

My wife and I went out this past weekend looking for a used
car to buy (cash) to haul the young'ens around in. Thankfully
we didn't find what we wanted.

Have no fear, the lists and web will stay up, I took care
of those heavy expenses in advance about 2 weeks ago....

Later,
Ken
Admin, FTE

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:41:47 -0500
From: KEVIN
Subject: question!?

Ok,my friend just moved here from ENGLAND and has a (chrysler mini van
, man it hurts to type that!)anyway he replaced the fuel pump and
shorted out the fusable links and the computer at the fenderwell on the
drivers side.We replaced the links and looked for burnt wires, found
none
Now we get 10.56volts at the coil but no output,checked the dist
wire
and its good.we checked continuity among the various circuits in the
ignition systemand replaced one relay.but we still have no spark.
It has an optical sensor for the pickup(how do you check it?)
Replaced the coil with a new one.
Ok, now for the shot in the dark;when we were cranking the motor
over
we did get a spark just at the point when youturn the key from "crank"to
"key on "position but only then.Now we don't get that any ideas?
thanks mongo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 18:18:11
From: Rich Lobrovich
Subject: NEW TO THE LIST 1963 F-100

Hi every one I wish I had this list two years ago when I sold my 1963 F100 , 2WD,
short bed step side , 300-6 (1969) with 4 speed !

This Truck was as Garrett Morris would put it " bin very very good to me "
For all those out there who watched Sat Night Live in the early days .

Well the truck had over 300,000 miles and had a bad case of cancer !
I was the second owner and bought it in 1975 with 100,000 plus miles . The cancer came from road salt Near Salt Lake City where winters are very salty .

I put the 1969 engine with the 4 speed in right after I found the old 225 and three
on the tree had no power to go fishing in the mts.

So after 20 years it was time for a change . So I mourned for a while and bought
a 1988 F-150 which I am happy with ... however it will never replace THE TRUCK.

So some day I will find an old truck to fix up again , and you folks will be out there
for me to help !

So long for now .
Rich Lob


- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Rich Lob
Left Coast Fly Fisher ... Wild but only half Crazy !!!
The other Half keeps me sane :-)

Rich Lobrovich
lob vornet.com
Tracy California
Tracy Fly Fishers
Livermore Fly Fishers
Delta Fly Fishers
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:22:35 -0500
From: Kevin Lindstedt
Subject: Noise diagnosis (please)

Strange thing happened on the way to work today. Pulled out onto the
highway and "punched it", and then it started: clickita, clickita, etc....
Thinking engine problem, I dropped shifter into neutral and revved engine a
few times - no noise. Back in drive, under load ie: acceleration or
climbing a hill, the noise is back. Can even feel it in the floorboard.
Oh, by the way - 460/C6. I checked the fluid level and it is up to snuff.
Crawled underneath and didn't see anything obvious. I don't think it's a
U-joint noise, they growl and clunk right? Also kind of a sudden onset for
u-joints. Transmission maybe? I won't be able to work on it until a week
from Friday (going out of town on business), but hope to get some ideas
prior to that. TIA

Kevin Lindstedt
1978 F150 460/C6 Ranger Lariat 2wd

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 22:39:12 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: Noise diagnosis (please)

At 09:22 PM 9/30/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Strange thing happened on the way to work today. Pulled out onto the
>highway and "punched it", and then it started: clickita, clickita, etc....
>Thinking engine problem, I dropped shifter into neutral and revved engine a
>few times - no noise. Back in drive, under load ie: acceleration or
>climbing a hill, the noise is back. Can even feel it in the floorboard.
>Oh, by the way - 460/C6. I checked the fluid level and it is up to snuff.
>Crawled underneath and didn't see anything obvious. I don't think it's a
>U-joint noise, they growl and clunk right? Also kind of a sudden onset for
>u-joints. Transmission maybe? I won't be able to work on it until a week
>from Friday (going out of town on business), but hope to get some ideas
>prior to that. TIA
>
>Kevin Lindstedt
>1978 F150 460/C6 Ranger Lariat 2wd
>

Could be (and sure that others will add possible
causes) one of the following:

1. distributor is loose and it moved just enough to throw the timing
off.....


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