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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:15:44 -0600 (MDT)
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fordtrucks61-79-digest Monday, September 29 1997 Volume 01 : Number 246



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

[Fwd: Anyone ??] [Brian & Jacque Milbrandt ]
the smog police are coming [jniolon uss.com]
Re: the smog police are coming [John MacNamara ]
RE: the smog police are coming [Sleddog ]
subscribing to ["Lee Hardy" ]
Re: Ammeter help!! [Tom Hogan ]
Re: Fuel tank coatings ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Oil Pan ["Dave Resch"]
Re: Found on the Web ["Dave Resch"]
Re: Ammeter help!! ["George Shepherd" ]
RE: the smog police are coming [DC Beatty ]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 08:08:41 -0500
From: Brian & Jacque Milbrandt
Subject: [Fwd: Anyone ??]

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Does anyone know what year brake boosters are interchangeable??
need 1 for a 78'F150 4x4...Next...Can anyone help me with converting my
64' F100 brakes from drums to disc....will a newer ford p/u...73'
through 79' bolt up ???

Thanks for any help....Brian

64'F100 2wheel
78'F150 4x4
96'F150 4x4
97'J**P Wrangler




+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 06:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: jniolon uss.com
Subject: the smog police are coming

As Ms. Manners would say

Good Morning Gentle Ford Persons...

I'm in the beginning stages of an engine build for a '53 F-100 street
truck..

Engine will be a Lincoln 460. Plan on building it mild with
streetable performance the goal.

All you guys in Cal. have to deal with the smog police and yearly
inspections/testing, but here in Ala (the 51st state to ever do
anything) we are still inspection free.

Lately there in Birmingham the ozone levels have been bringing out the
red flags and EPA rules have been broken so there are rumblings about
inspections/testing and "Formulated fuels" (methanol, ethanol, PTME or
whatever)

My question is: If I build this engine "smog equipment deficient"
what will have to be done in the future, if necessary to retrofit it
to meet impending requirements ? I'm sure the environmental group in
the state where I reside isn't smart enough to come up with any reg's
based on OUR air and will probably just copy the "worst case" regs
available just to be safe, i.e. California regs.

Any recommendations, suggestions will be greatly appreciated...It will
probably be easier to do some stuff now that have to spend the same
money later.

thanks

john

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 07:38:58 -0700
From: John MacNamara
Subject: Re: the smog police are coming

jniolon uss.com wrote:
>
> As Ms. Manners would say
>
> Good Morning Gentle Ford Persons...
>
> I'm in the beginning stages of an engine build for a '53 F-100 street
> truck..
>
> Engine will be a Lincoln 460. Plan on building it mild with
> streetable performance the goal.
>
> All you guys in Cal. have to deal with the smog police and yearly
> inspections/testing, but here in Ala (the 51st state to ever do
> anything) we are still inspection free.
>
> Lately there in Birmingham the ozone levels have been bringing out the
> red flags and EPA rules have been broken so there are rumblings about
> inspections/testing and "Formulated fuels" (methanol, ethanol, PTME or
> whatever)
>
> My question is: If I build this engine "smog equipment deficient"
> what will have to be done in the future, if necessary to retrofit it
> to meet impending requirements ? I'm sure the environmental group in
> the state where I reside isn't smart enough to come up with any reg's
> based on OUR air and will probably just copy the "worst case" regs
> available just to be safe, i.e. California regs.
>
> Any recommendations, suggestions will be greatly appreciated...It will
> probably be easier to do some stuff now that have to spend the same
> money later.
>
> thanks
>
> john
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

John: All you will need to do is add catalytic converters and the
emissions will drop siginificantly. I live in Calif. and I had real
trouble getting mine to pass and before the next test, I will add
catalytics.

Thanks
John MacNamara

78 F250 4X4 Supercab
67 GT500
66 Corvette

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:20:01 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: the smog police are coming

you may not need it. do you know if the epa crap will apply to a 53? or
by engine year? here in pa in the cities that have epa regs, i think it
goes by model year of vehicle only. from '68 on up.

if emmissions is the concern, the late model fuel injection motors can be
built with very good street performance and still pass the sniffer.

but, if you build and need to meet regs after the fact, it can be done.
dual catalytic converters and a well jetted small carb with a good
ignition timed properly, egr, etc. maybe a performance fuel injection unit
from holley or someplace will help even more.

build it, don't worry about it, or build a late model engine with a cam,
headers, k&n, computer, etc.

sleddog

- ----------
From: jniolon uss.com[SMTP:jniolon uss.com]
Sent: Monday, September 29, 1997 2:57 AM
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net; fordtrucks ListService.net
Subject: the smog police are coming

As Ms. Manners would say

Good Morning Gentle Ford Persons...

I'm in the beginning stages of an engine build for a '53 F-100 street
truck..

Engine will be a Lincoln 460. Plan on building it mild with
streetable performance the goal.

All you guys in Cal. have to deal with the smog police and yearly
inspections/testing, but here in Ala (the 51st state to ever do
anything) we are still inspection free.

Lately there in Birmingham the ozone levels have been bringing out the
red flags and EPA rules have been broken so there are rumblings about
inspections/testing and "Formulated fuels" (methanol, ethanol, PTME or
whatever)

My question is: If I build this engine "smog equipment deficient"
what will have to be done in the future, if necessary to retrofit it
to meet impending requirements ? I'm sure the environmental group in
the state where I reside isn't smart enough to come up with any reg's
based on OUR air and will probably just copy the "worst case" regs
available just to be safe, i.e. California regs.

Any recommendations, suggestions will be greatly appreciated...It will
probably be easier to do some stuff now that have to spend the same
money later.

thanks

john






+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:44:24 -0400
From: "Lee Hardy"
Subject: subscribing to

Hi Ken: Somehow I lost my access to the 61-69 list. I wish to remain on
both the new 60 and older and also on the 61-69 until lists are completely
separated. Also, there is some real good info for brake and driveline
updates on that list. Thanks, Lee Hardy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 09:29:41 -0700
From: Tom Hogan
Subject: Re: Ammeter help!!

George,
I went to the 4x4now page and could not find a link to BigBroncos.
Could you please list the whole URL to the page? Coincidentally I just
delt with the same problem on my truck (76 F-150). I engineered the fix
myself and I would like to compare notes with what others have done to
fix the problem.

Daniel,
George is right. As best I can tell there is an engineering defect in
the design of the ammeter circuit. (I guess since Ford built such a
superb truck they had to put some gremlin in it to give the other
manufacturers a chance to catch up ;o) ). Anyway the good news is that
you have a brand new ammeter in your dash!! That's because the way the
circuit is designed the meter has not been used in its 20 years of
life!!! The bad news is you may have to modify the harness to fix the
problem. I modified mine and posted the results last week. The rest of
this reply is a repost telling what I did in case you missed it. Good
luck. It can be fixed.

The shunt was located in the wiring harness that connects the
alternator, voltage regulator and battery side of the starter solenoid.
Near the starter solenoid the harness has three other connectors, one
has 1 wire, one has 2 wires and one has 3 wires. The 3 wire connector
has a black, a red and a yellow wire. The black wire is larger than the
other 2. The yellow and the red wire connect to the ammeter in the
dash. If you remove the harness and unwrap it there is a very large
black wire that connects between the red and yellow wire. That is the
shunt.

I got a resistance wire from the parts store. Ford used a wire from the
ignition switch to the control module of their electronic ignitions. I
believe it is a copper nickle alloy. The resistance wire that I used
had pink insulation it was 60 inches long and had about 1.5 ohms
resistance. This converted to 0.025 ohms per inch. I had calculated
that I needed 0.0128 ohms (I calculated the internal resistance of the
meter to be 0.7ohms). I figured 0.025 ohms was close enough. Next
problem was that the resistance wire was a small diameter and wouldn't
carry the current if the alternator had to go to max output. I
estimated that the resistance wire was 1/6 the diameter of the shunt so
I multiplied the length by 6 and cut 6 sections of wire. Six 6 inch
long resitor wires in parallel have the same resistance as one 1 inch
long resistor wire (Ohm's law for parallel resistors).

I cut the shunt in the middle, twisted the 6 resistor wires together and
soldered them into the shunt. I ended up with a lot more resistance
than I wanted but so far it just makes the needle more sensitive. Like
I said, I may try to reduce the resistance later or I may just put a
fuse inline with the meter to protect it from spikes. Under normal
operation it doesn't reach full deflection even with headlights,
airconditioner, radio etc on.

Disclaimer: I don't know how this will work long term or if it will
cause a fire or shock hazard. I am willing to do this to my own truck
because it is my truck. If anyone does try this be VERY careful to
properly insulate all of the connections. I realize that I risked
shorting something out or overheating a harness. If you want to try to
duplicate this consult with someone that knows auto electronics to help
you.

>----------

_________________________________
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:37:25 -0500
From: "George Shepherd"
Subject: Re: Ammeter help!!

The BigBroncos list just had an extensive discussion of the problem.
Seems
that the Amp meter needs a shunt to work properly. It doesn't have
enough.
I can copy over the directions, but go to 4x4 now.com and check out the
BigBroncos page. Go to the archives. Its all there.

- - ----------
> From: Daniel H. Jenkins
> To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> Subject: Ammeter help!!
> Date: Sunday, September 28, 1997 6:01 PM
>
> I recently bought a 1977 Ford F150 with the trailer special
> package. I guess that for that year it came in two different versions:
a
> light-duty and a heavy-duty package. To be frank, I'm not sure which one
> mine has. But, based upon what the two packages are, I believe I have
the
> heavy duty package. THe light duty package includes extra cooling,
wiring
> harness, heavy duty flasher, rear step bumber, and trailer special
emblem.
> The heavy duty package includes extra cooling, heavy-duty in-tank oil
> cooler and external oil cooler, wiring harness, heavy duty flasher, 68
> amp-hour battery, 60 amp alternator, ammeter and oil pressure gauge,
heavy
> duty shocks, swing-out recreational mirrors, and trailer special emblem.
> As far as I know, I have everything in the heavy duty category EXCEPT a
> working ammeter! :( DOes anybody out there know of any things which
> commonly cause the ammeter to stop working? My understand is that it is
> somehow tied to the voltage regulator. But, I really don't want to
> randomly replace parts in the hopes that it will work. I appreciate
> anything you guys can tell me. Thanks in advance!
>
>
- -
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----
- - ---
> Daniel H. JenkinsFood for thought: John Milton
> djenkins honors.unr.eduwrote _Paradise_Lost_; When his
> Honors Programwife died he wrote _Paradise_
> University of Nevada, Reno_Regained_...
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:40:57 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Fuel tank coatings

> From: sdelanty sonic.net
> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 05:08:25 -0700
> Subject: Re: Fuel tank coatings

> It only holds 2 gallons, and it's custom built to fit where I need
> it to live. Just got it finished yesterday. It's for my "new"
> heater.

This reminds me, I always got chills thinking about driving down the
road with gas inside the cab like the VW's used to do. I presume the
heater is gravity fed so the idea of using the vehicle's fuel tank
and pump to supply it is out of the question? Having pressure fed
fuel in the cab would probably be worse, don't know?

2 gals makes one heck of a fire if it ever gets loose. I blew myself
up trying to burn some brush and only put about a pint on the pile.
(big pile) What a surprise that was! :-( Arms and legs peeled for
weeks but no permantent damage except my pride :-)

The swift of foot and slow of wit
have more off road experiences

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 11:12:22 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: Oil Pan

>snip rantage etc.
>Any 4X4 with the 351M or 400 will have the rear sump
>pan you seek.....

My 1980 F250 4x4 has a 351M with front sump oil pan. My buddy's 1979 F350
4x4 has a 400 w/ front sump oil pan. Maybe '70s cars w/ 351M/400 had rear
sump pans?

Dave R. (M-block devotee)
1980 F250 4x4 351M

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:39:55 -0600
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Re: Found on the Web

>From: "deconblu"
>Subject: Found on the Web
>
> Found Surfing. Cars, Trucks and Hot Rods for sale by year and make. Huge
>selection starting from '20s to present. Worth checking out just for the
>pic's.
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://automotive.internetrader.com/ITI_Publications/INDEX.HTML

Yeah, neat idea, but....

I just saw one listed as a 1979 Courier, but the pic was a 82-86 FS Bronco!
They also showed a late 60s Ch*vy as an 82 model on the same page.
Hmmmm....

Dave R. (M-block devotee)
1980 F250 4x4 351M

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 17:33:41 -0500
From: "George Shepherd"
Subject: Re: Ammeter help!!

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.off -road. com /4x4web/ford/bigbroncos

- ----------
> From: Tom Hogan
> To: 'Ford Trucks'
> Subject: Re: Ammeter help!!
> Date: Monday, September 29, 1997 11:29 AM
>
> George,
> I went to the 4x4now page and could not find a link to BigBroncos.
> Could you please list the whole URL to the page? Coincidentally I just
> delt with the same problem on my truck (76 F-150). I engineered the fix
> myself and I would like to compare notes with what others have done to
> fix the problem.
>
> Daniel,
> George is right. As best I can tell there is an engineering defect in
> the design of the ammeter circuit. (I guess since Ford built such a
> superb truck they had to put some gremlin in it to give the other
> manufacturers a chance to catch up ;o) ). Anyway the good news is that
> you have a brand new ammeter in your dash!! That's because the way the
> circuit is designed the meter has not been used in its 20 years of
> life!!! The bad news is you may have to modify the harness to fix the
> problem. I modified mine and posted the results last week. The rest of
> this reply is a repost telling what I did in case you missed it. Good
> luck. It can be fixed.
>
> The shunt was located in the wiring harness that connects the
> alternator, voltage regulator and battery side of the starter solenoid.
> Near the starter solenoid the harness has three other connectors, one
> has 1 wire, one has 2 wires and one has 3 wires. The 3 wire connector
> has a black, a red and a yellow wire. The black wire is larger than the
> other 2. The yellow and the red wire connect to the ammeter in the
> dash. If you remove the harness and unwrap it there is a very large
> black wire that connects between the red and yellow wire. That is the
> shunt.
>
> I got a resistance wire from the parts store. Ford used a wire from the
> ignition switch to the control module of their electronic ignitions. I
> believe it is a copper nickle alloy. The resistance wire that I used
> had pink insulation it was 60 inches long and had about 1.5 ohms
> resistance. This converted to 0.025 ohms per inch. I had calculated
> that I needed 0.0128 ohms (I calculated the internal resistance of the
> meter to be 0.7ohms). I figured 0.025 ohms was close enough. Next
> problem was that the resistance wire was a small diameter and wouldn't
> carry the current if the alternator had to go to max output. I
> estimated that the resistance wire was 1/6 the diameter of the shunt so
> I multiplied the length by 6 and cut 6 sections of wire. Six 6 inch
> long resitor wires in parallel have the same resistance as one 1 inch
> long resistor wire (Ohm's law for parallel resistors).
>
> I cut the shunt in the middle, twisted the 6 resistor wires together and
> soldered them into the shunt. I ended up with a lot more resistance
> than I wanted but so far it just makes the needle more sensitive. Like
> I said, I may try to reduce the resistance later or I may just put a
> fuse inline with the meter to protect it from spikes. Under normal
> operation it doesn't reach full deflection even with headlights,
> airconditioner, radio etc on.
>
> Disclaimer: I don't know how this will work long term or if it will
> cause a fire or shock hazard. I am willing to do this to my own truck
> because it is my truck. If anyone does try this be VERY careful to
> properly insulate all of the connections. I realize that I risked
> shorting something out or overheating a harness. If you want to try to
> duplicate this consult with someone that knows auto electronics to help
> you.
>
> >----------
>
> _________________________________
> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:37:25 -0500
> From: "George Shepherd"
> Subject: Re: Ammeter help!!
>
> The BigBroncos list just had an extensive discussion of the problem.
> Seems
> that the Amp meter needs a shunt to work properly. It doesn't have
> enough.
> I can copy over the directions, but go to 4x4 now.com and check out the
> BigBroncos page. Go to the archives. Its all there.
>
> - ----------
> > From: Daniel H. Jenkins
> > To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
> > Subject: Ammeter help!!
> > Date: Sunday, September 28, 1997 6:01 PM
> >
> > I recently bought a 1977 Ford F150 with the trailer special
> > package. I guess that for that year it came in two different versions:

> a
> > light-duty and a heavy-duty package. To be frank, I'm not sure which
one
> > mine has. But, based upon what the two packages are, I believe I have
> the
> > heavy duty package. THe light duty package includes extra cooling,
> wiring
> > harness, heavy duty flasher, rear step bumber, and trailer special
> emblem.
> > The heavy duty package includes extra cooling, heavy-duty in-tank oil
> > cooler and external oil cooler, wiring harness, heavy duty flasher, 68
> > amp-hour battery, 60 amp alternator, ammeter and oil pressure gauge,
> heavy
> > duty shocks, swing-out recreational mirrors, and trailer special
emblem.
> > As far as I know, I have everything in the heavy duty category EXCEPT a
> > working ammeter! :( DOes anybody out there know of any things which
> > commonly cause the ammeter to stop working? My understand is that it
is
> > somehow tied to the voltage regulator. But, I really don't want to
> > randomly replace parts in the hopes that it will work. I appreciate
> > anything you guys can tell me. Thanks in advance!
> >
> >
> -
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> - ---
> > Daniel H. JenkinsFood for thought: John Milton
> > djenkins honors.unr.eduwrote _Paradise_Lost_; When his
> > Honors Programwife died he wrote _Paradise_
> > University of Nevada, Reno_Regained_...
> >
> > +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> > | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> > | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> > +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+
>
>
> +-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
> | Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
> | Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
> +---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 19:14:45 -0400
From: DC Beatty
Subject: RE: the smog police are coming

John. Congrats. Sounds like a nice project. =


I'm in Colorado and we have strict emissions controls and getting stricte=
r.
It's all about states getting federal highway dollars that the feds
absconded from the states, but that's another story. =


Here your emission controls must be as the vehicle had factory installed.=

In your case, none. Say you wanted to put a built 1968 390 in a 1987 truc=
k.
You would have to install all the crap the 1987 truck would have come wit=
h
new (air pump, egr, catalyst, etc. etc.) This is part of the visual
emissions inspection where they look under the hood. =


I have a stock 1967 F100 with the original 352 and it came with nothing s=
o
I don't have to have anything---part of the reason I run old rigs, there =
is
less stuff to break down and what does break I can fix. Also, in Colorado=

we have what is called a "collector's vehicle" registration with a specia=
l
license plate. I have one. I paid for four years worth of registration fe=
es
up front and got the emissions to pass one time. I am now exempt from the=

emissions test for life (or until they change the law, whichever comes
first). They may do something like this in Alabama. =


Two other tests they perform are the sniffer test (C02, NOX, etc.) and
looking for visible smoke. If you build a new motor for it neither one
should be a problem for you. If it burns too rich or something then you c=
an
always monkey with the timing or whatever it takes to get it to pass.

You may want to ask around locally and see what exactly they plan to
implement. =


Enjoy!!

DC Beatty
1967 F100 352
1974 Maverick 302 =


Good Morning Gentle Ford Persons...
I'm in the beginning stages of an engine build for a '53 F-100 street=
=

truck..
Engine will be a Lincoln 460. Plan on building it mild with =

streetable performance the goal. =

=

All you guys in Cal. have to deal with the smog police and yearly =

inspections/testing, but here in Ala (the 51st state to ever do =

anything) we are still inspection free. =

=

Lately there in Birmingham the ozone levels have been bringing out t=
he
....

---

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