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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 03:50:21 -0700 (MST)
From: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks61-79-digest)
To: fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks61-79-digest V1 #362
Reply-To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks61-79-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks61-79-digest Friday, November 21 1997 Volume 01 : Number 362



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks Digest
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Vibration, compressors etc. ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
(Fwd) Re: Voltage dips ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Setting up Dana diff gears. [james oxley ]
Re: What do you think? [Kevin Lindstedt ]
Re: Custom Cab Door Pockets [Jeffrey.Carver Aerojet.com (CARVER, JEFFREY ]
CC Zippered Door Pockets [John Strauss ]
Self-Shifting AT [Dennis Pearson ]
RE: Pocket Doors [RICHARD_GARBER HP-USA-om21.om.hp.com]
Brian Thanks - was rag joint repair [rick adc.com (Rick Larson)]
Dana Rear [am14 chrysler.com]
Re: Self-Shifting AT ["deconblu" ]
Polyurethane vs Rubber ["Dave Resch"]
Re: Self-Shifting AT [Dennis Pearson ]
Re: Setting up Dana diff gears. ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Np435 vs. T-19 [marko helix.net (marko maryniak)]
Re: New Compressor ["Gary, 78 BBB" ]
Re: Oil Sludge and Windshield Seals [marko helix.net (marko maryniak)]
Re: Dana 44 front spindles [marko helix.net (marko maryniak)]
Re: One for the "Aaarghh" file... 300/6 carb. ["Bill Beyer"
Re: 351M trouble [JRFiero aol.com]
Re: rag joint repair [danadeb pacbell.net]

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 07:42:48 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Vibration, compressors etc.

I've had some vibration in the shifter and gas pedal for some time
and it just felt like drive shaft related so I checked the u joints
and found the yoke on the rear of the transfer case seemed to be
loose. Last night I took it off and checked it and it was definitely
loose. This guy had RTV in everything, he had it gooped all over the
flange to seal it I guess. It was even in the splines!?? Anyway, I
tried to get it off with my new compressor and old 1/2" drive impact
and no dice so I got out my new 3/4" impact and tried it for the
first time and the sound was so slow I thought maybe it wasn't
working right but it took the nut right off! Wow! I think my
struggles are over! Don't have to wait for air and don't need 5'
pipes anymore! COOL! You don't wave this thing around like a fly
swatter, thats for sure. Tim Taylor would be proud of me :-)

BTW, remember the lights diming with my new compressor? My
signature says it all! Looks like a transformer upgrade :-)

I know where compressors get their air, it gets
sucked out of the NEIGHBOR'S electric lines :-)

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 07:58:05 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: (Fwd) Re: Voltage dips

> From: ccotten entergy.com
> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 97 10:43:55 CST
> Subject: Voltage dips

> Even if you were the only customer served from a transformer
> and it was right at your house, you will still see some "dip"
> in the voltage with motor starts, but it can get better.

Thanks Clark, I've finally pretty much gathered everything you
mentioned in your post from other list members and Campbell
Housefeld, US Electrical Motors and Consumers Power Co. Consumers has
my values (218 peak amps, code G 230v) and will be getting back to
me on this.

P.S. I mentioned this already but it does affect the neighbors
lights, I called and asked them to watch while I turned it on and off
a few times.

I know where compressors get their air, it gets
sucked out of the NEIGHBOR'S electric lines :-)

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:21:42 -0800
From: james oxley
Subject: Re: Setting up Dana diff gears.

Gary, 78 BBB wrote:

> > ch*bbie. What they said was that all pinion gears had a number
> > scribed into them that indicated the exact measurement from the top
> > end of pinion gear to the imaginary center of carrier bearings/diff.
> > I've never seen this number scribed, but I may not have been looking
>
> It's a small number, usually +/- up to about 0.006 I think I've seen
> so far. It's stamped on the end ot the pinion gear If I remember
> right.


So the numbers you've seen are from top of pinion to bottom of diff
bearing race contact point.

OR

Is that number the recommended pinion shim measurement starting point.

>
> I think the cat's meow would be to have a ground round

Isn't that a restaurant. Seriously, I didn't understand this sentence.

>with a flat
> ground wide enough to allow the pinion to fit and past center maybe
> 0.010" to allow feeler gauge checking. This is what I plan to do
> next time. I'll have it made up here in the shop or see if I can buy
> one. Doesn't seem like it should cost that much. Ground, hardened
> 4140 in that size would be about $20 - $30 and grinding the flat
> about $75 maybe. Should be able to get one for under $100. if you
> get the pinion height right and the backlash, theoretically the
> patterns come out right so it's worth it IMHO :-)
>

Wanna make 2??? :-)

> I made something up last time but don't remember what I gauged to.
> Looking at the gauge I made doesn't ring any bells right now, maybe I
> was on something??? :-)
>
> I know where compressors get their air,
> it gets sucked out of the electric lines :-)

I thought they kept the smoke in there??.


OX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 07:33:19 -0600
From: Kevin Lindstedt
Subject: Re: What do you think?

At 02:20 PM 11/19/97 -0600, you wrote:
>If its been well cared for , that mileage isn't too high if it was highway
>miles, if it was around town, it might be dicey, are there service records?
>

No, not really. In fact, he said something that worries me - he changes
his oil religiously on the first day of a season change. Only 4 times a
year with those miles doesn't sound so good...

Kevin

>----------
>>Kevin wrote:
>>
>> Well, I'll admit this is a little off-topic for *this* list, but I was
>> hoping for some input about a truck I'm thinking about buying. It's a
>1991
>> F150 Custom SuperCab with 300 F.I. I6, AOD, PS, PB. Truck has 127,000
>> highway miles on it. I've driven it and it runs/drives nice. However,
>I'm
>> a little concerned about the high miles. Is this engine on it's last
>legs?
>> Oh, by the way, the asking price is $4000 - which I think is very
>> reasonable. Thanks for any and all responses.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 06:01:43 -0800
From: Jeffrey.Carver Aerojet.com (CARVER, JEFFREY D)
Subject: Re: Custom Cab Door Pockets

Mike -
This is hearsay, but who knows it might be true!
I have the same pockets on my '64 F100 CrewCab,
custom ordered from Ford. I was told that the
pockets were an option that was discontinued
sometime prior to '64, but with perseverance could be
special ordered, such as ours apparently were.
They are on all 4 doors. Very useful option IMHO.

I think the earlier Truck list may have the answer
to this as I think the cut-off point may have been
the same as the list split.

Speaking of doors, anyone out there have any
extra door pull handles they'd part with? I need
one for each side. Blue preferred, but WTH, it'd
be nice to have one without being tape wrapped!
It annoys me to no end that at a local repair shop,
they use one as a door handle between the office and
the shop and won't let me have it!

- - Jeff
'64 F100 CrewCab
- - - - - - - - snip - - - - - - -
Hello everyone,
My 66 f100 custom cab has a zippered pocket in the bottom half of each
door. I
wondered if this was a factory installed option, or an aftermarket add
on.
Thanks. Mike B.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 07:58:05 -0600
From: John Strauss
Subject: CC Zippered Door Pockets

>My 66 f100 custom cab has a zippered pocket in the bottom half of each
door. I
>wondered if this was a factory installed option, or an aftermarket add on.
>
Factory. I think the left side came with the CC package, right side optional.


_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, _} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 06:18:41 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Self-Shifting AT

Well, I've been concentrating on the 351C and wondering about an AOD that
will bolt-up. I still am not sure about what way I want to go. I am not
even sure which AT I have at the moment, but something happened yesterday
that may narrow the choices and possibly keep me from having to crawl under
that truck (it's getting cold!). Anyway, I slipped the shift lever (floor)
back into the "2" slot (of 1 2 D N R P) to take off. Don't really
know why, just playing around. The truck tok off just fine, maybe stayed in
second a little longer, but then IT SHIFTED ITSELF. I mean the lever
moved. Is this a common occurrence with any particular Ford AT. I've been
shifting manually for some time, so maybe I missed something on the AT side.

Any info?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 97 09:19:49 -0500
From: RICHARD_GARBER HP-USA-om21.om.hp.com
Subject: RE: Pocket Doors

Item Subject: Text Item
Mike,

The cab pocket door, was a dealer installed option.

Rich

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:09:42 -0600 (CST)
From: rick adc.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: Brian Thanks - was rag joint repair

Brian,

Thanks for the reply on the rag joint repair.

Sorry to send this to the list but my email bounce
to you at visi.com (550 Access denied ... Remote protocol error).

I'll look at a PTO joint. I'm sure we have 'em at the farm.

rick
- --
Rick Larson rick adc.com
Minnetonka

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:59:32 -0500
From: am14 chrysler.com
Subject: Dana Rear

I wouldn't think a complete setup would be required. You don't even
have to remove the Pinion for this. Just setting the proper teeth
engagement depth would seem to be all thats required in this case.
JMHO.

Good luck.

Azie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:23:02 -0800
From: "deconblu"
Subject: Re: Self-Shifting AT

!). Anyway, I slipped the shift lever (floor)
>back into the "2" slot (of 1 2 D N R P) to take off. Don't really
>know why, just playing around. The truck tok off just fine, maybe stayed in
>second a little longer, but then IT SHIFTED ITSELF. I mean the lever
>moved. Is this a common occurrence with any particular Ford AT. I've been
>shifting manually for some time, so maybe I missed something on the AT
side.
>: Dennis Pearson

Do you hear it say your name. Do vulgar words come out of the radio when
a woman gets in it. Do dents just disappear. Does it seem to swerve towards
paperboys when passing them. Does it curse when Holy Water is sprinkled on
it.
If you answered yes to one or more of these then, No, no problem,
perfectly normal. If you answered no to all of them. Have you really tried
them all? I really have only one suggestion...

If there's something strange in your neighborhood
Who you gonna call?
Ghostbusters!
If there's something weird and it don't look good
Who you gonna call?
Ghostbusters!
I ain't afraid of no ghost
If you're seeing things running through your head
Who can you call?
Ghostbusters!
An invisible man sleeping in your bed
Oh, who you gonna call?
Ghostbusters!



Deacon Blues deconblu gte.net
================================================
Visit The Deacon Blues Homepage
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dragonfire.net/~site/tbirdknights/

- -----Original Message-----
From
To: fordtrucks61-79 ListService.net
Date: Thursday, November 20, 1997 6:29 AM
Subject: Self-Shifting AT


>Well, I've been concentrating on the 351C and wondering about an AOD that
>will bolt-up. I still am not sure about what way I want to go. I am not
>even sure which AT I have at the moment, but something happened yesterday
>that may narrow the choices and possibly keep me from having to crawl under
>that truck (it's getting cold>
>Any info?
>
>+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961 thru 1979 --------------+
>| Send posts to fordtrucks61-79 listservice.net, |
>| Send Unsubscribe requests to fordtrucks61-79-request listservice.net|
>+---------- Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/ ----------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:29:11 -0700
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: Polyurethane vs Rubber

OK guys:
I am starting to gather information and parts for my next Fun Ford project,
rebuilding the stock suspension on my 1980 F250 4x4 (reg. cab, 133" wb). I
have found a source of reasonably priced, used leaf springs in good
condition. Now I am looking at the other components.

I have heard that for "hard-core" off-road usage, polyurethane bushings
reduce your suspension flexibility, but I don't do Rubicon runs in my F250.
Besides, the way the frame flexes on this baby, I don't think I'd loose
much overall flexibility in the bushings anyway.

A spring-maker guy once told me that the reduced flexibility of
polyurethane spring bushings causes extra stress on other frame and
suspension components. This seems plausible, but I'm not sure how
significant it would really be.

I'm looking for long-term durability and decent on-road handling (since
that's where this truck lives 98% of the time) and the ability to withstand
occasional low-speed off-road jaunts w/ heavy loads.

Here's the question: should I use polyurethane or rubber (OEM-type)
bushings in the front and rear leaf spring eyes and shackles? What are
your opinions/experiences? If I go w/ poly bushings, who are the best
manufacturers? Are there any special considerations when using poly
bushings (i.e., lubrication, maintenance, etc.)?

I could go either way, since the cost for new bushings seems comparable for
both types.

So far, I have been using poly bushings in the front axle pivot brackets
(damn TTB system!) for the last 4 years and 100K+ miles w/ no problems.
(Unfortunately, every time I drain oil out of the engine, it runs all over
the crossmember and washes the front axle pivot bushings, and the poly
bushings hold up to such abuse much better than the rubber ones.)

Thanks for your input and advice.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:32:53 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: Self-Shifting AT

Thanks for your message at 09:23 AM 11/20/97 -0800, deconblu. Your message
was:
>!). Anyway, I slipped the shift lever (floor)
>>back into the "2" slot (of 1 2 D N R P) to take off. Don't really
>>know why, just playing around. The truck tok off just fine, maybe stayed in
>>second a little longer, but then IT SHIFTED ITSELF. I mean the lever
>>moved. Is this a common occurrence with any particular Ford AT. I've been
>>shifting manually for some time, so maybe I missed something on the AT
>side.
>>: Dennis Pearson
>
> Do you hear it say your name. Do vulgar words come out of the radio when
>a woman gets in it. Do dents just disappear. Does it seem to swerve towards
>paperboys when passing them. Does it curse when Holy Water is sprinkled on
>it.


Come to think of it, I can never find the truck after midnight...
And my ex-wife/psychobitch-from-Hell's name is Kristina...but that's a
M*p*r problem...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:35:42 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: Setting up Dana diff gears.

> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:21:42 -0800
> From: james oxley
> Subject: Re: Setting up Dana diff gears.

> > I think the cat's meow would be to have a ground round
>
> Isn't that a restaurant. Seriously, I didn't understand this
> sentence.

Ground round is machinist talk for round steel stock which has
already been hardened and ground to a precise size so all you have to
do is machine your features into it and put it to work.

If you grind a flat below center you can then use feeler gauges to
set the pinion depth. The round part will fit exactly into the
bearing bosses to locate it's center.

I know where compressors get their air, it gets
sucked out of the NEIGHBOR'S electric lines :-)

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:17:08 -0800
From: marko helix.net (marko maryniak)
Subject: Re: Np435 vs. T-19

>Not sure who else was looking for this info. I called this guy Ed
>Hartnett who has a 4spd shop in Pa. He told me
>
>NP435 has a 6.68 first gear, 2-4 synchonized, funky 3-4 synchronizer
>assembly with 3rd gear possibly popping out.
>
>T-18 has a 13-01 casting in side of case. Could have 4.32 or 6.32 first
>gear. Does not have 3rd gear popping out problem.
>
>T-19, identical to T-18, except first gear is snychronized. Only way to
>tell is open case and look.
>
> He said he has not seen any major problems with breakage on either
>trans. My 78 Bronco had the NP 435 and the 79 Bronco trans I bought is
>either a T-18 or T-19, not sure of first gear ratio yet.
>
> I have not had any problems with 3rd gear popping out on NP435. I did
>rebuild it at 150K miles and have had a 3-2 downshift problem recently.
>
> I guess I am sticking with the NP435, because it has the lowest first
>gear, even lower than I thought.
>

Ox:

It was me. Thanks for the info, I have both now: a T-18 in my M100 and a
435 in my F250. For the rebilt 4x4 I think I might stick with the 435 for
toughness. Any comments from your guy on the comparative durability of the
2 transmissions?


marko in vancouver
marko helix.net
67 merc m100
71 ford f250 4x4

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 16:19:51 +0000
From: "Gary, 78 BBB"
Subject: Re: New Compressor

> From: sdelanty sonic.net
> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:38:59 -0800
> Subject: Re: New Compressor

> The NEC rates 2/0 THHN wire for 175 amps, and #2 for 115 amps.

Ya jest caint trus nobody nowdays! Electical specter said 2-0 was
good tor 200 easy! Dang! Well it's only about 10 feet so I guess I
can fix it if I have to :-)

> Keep in mind that induction motors draw about 3 times their full
> load current during start up. For a 40 amp motor, that's about 120
> amps of start current. Based on NEC resistance charts, #2 cu wire
> is about 0.194 ohms per 1000 ft. So, 50 feet is about 0.0097
> ohms... With a 120 amp start current, this means a voltage drop of
> 1.164 volts. I'd say Your problem is elsewhere. You should go out

US Electrical Motors tech said they usually figure 6 - 8 times
running amps (30) and empiriclal test show up to 218 amps LRA for
this one. That's a code G for those who know what that means.

If I figured it right I'd need 1691 volts to push that much amps or
roughly 8.51 volt drop?? Is that about right? Doesn't seem like
even 9 volts drop would be that noticeable?

> Let me know what You find, I'm the curious type... (-:

Well, may not be too scientific but I called the neighbor across the
road who is the only other one sharing my transformer and while she
was on the phone I switched it on and off a few times and she said
her lights went Waaaaaaaay down too so I suspect it's the transformer
but consumers is working on a solution so we'll see what happens.

I know where compressors get their air, it gets
sucked out of the NEIGHBOR'S electric lines :-)

- -- Gary --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:22:11 -0800
From: marko helix.net (marko maryniak)
Subject: Re: Oil Sludge and Windshield Seals

>> Windsheild sealing, Your local auto glass supplier has a sealer
>> that works well and hold up to the test of time. It's black
>> very, very sticky and comes in a caulk tube. I think it was
>> around $8 a tube. I would not use clear silicon, it will not
>> hold up over time.
>
>Depends on whether you are installing a new windshield or just trying to
>solve a leaking gasket.
>

My $0.0143 (being Canadian you see) is to go with the black guck over the
silicone. Silicone in my experience seals well for awhile then it just gets
godawful. For ease of application, adhesion to existing windshield sealer
and gasket, and reliability I'd take the black stuff for sure.

marko in vancouver
marko helix.net
71 f250 4x4
67 merc m100

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:25:40 -0800
From: marko helix.net (marko maryniak)
Subject: Re: Dana 44 front spindles

>If you can't get the spindle off, just run the nuts up to the end of the
>studs. Then using a "soft" hammer beat them in. They are pressed into both
>the steering knuckle, and the spindle. NOTE: The bottom stud won't go all
>the way in because the ball joint is in the way!!!! Any questions please
>E-mail me directly at: FORDTRKNUT AOL.COM

Yikes. I assume this is to take off the caps on the steering knuckle
bearings? If so, I recommend against using this procedure. Instead, use
the hot wrench and new seals, and a hammer with a good cold chisel to push
the cap up. Just hammer a little on each side so it slides out evenly.

marko in vancouver
marko helix.net
71 f250 4x4
67 merc m100

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:08:02 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: One for the "Aaarghh" file... 300/6 carb.

> Yeah, bitter... When I spend $120 for a remanufactured item I expect
> it to work correctly without me pulling it completely apart again to do
> it right myself. This wasn't even close.
> Both of us are pretty decent mechanics. Neither of us has ever found
> a good mechanic we could consistantly trust for more than fixing flat
> tires that was affordable. So we do it ourselves and know it's right
> the first time...
> Almost every time we trust someone else we're dissapointed.


Unfortunately when you buy "remanufactured" parts they're usually rebuilt
by people making minimum wage. I took a tour of a "factory authorized" Ford
rebuilder once and it was quite an eye opener. Ever since then my motto has
been if "I can't buy it new I'll rebuild it myself." Besides what better
excuse is there to buy more TOOLS! ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:17:30 -0500 (EST)
From: JRFiero aol.com
Subject: Re: 351M trouble


>> A 'clacking' sound has developed in the '79 351M. At first I didn't

>Is it dull or sharp, tinny or deep? Sounds like a broken valve
> spring, bent pushrod or damaged lifter.
>
> Rods generally show up at idle or decelleration, mains are generally
>higher frequency and more intense or sharper sound than rods.

I kinda agree with Gary, it doesn't sound like a rod bearing description....

---

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