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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 61-79-list); Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:04:30 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:04:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: 61-79-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
Reply-to: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: 61-79-list Digest V2000 #83
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------------------------------------
61-79-list Digest Wed, 26 Apr 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 083

In This Issue:
Re: Parts counters was Engine identity
Re: Supercab bench seat
Re: Supercab bench seat
hemi in a f150?
Re: guesses on truck's worth?
Re: 351W,C,M or 400
Re: 351 W, C, M or 400 ???
Re: Fans (now thermostats for fans)
Re: Parts Counters
1979 Ford F-150 Door panels
Re: Fuel pump blockoff plate for M block??
Re: guesses on truck's worth?
Re: 9 inch gear swap
Supercab rear benchseat
Re: 1979 Ford F-150 Door panels
Re: 1979 Ford F-150 Door panels
ADMIN: Server problems
Re: ADMIN: Server problems
Re: Fans (now thermostats for fans)
Ground Cable
Re: Fans (now thermostats for fans)
Re: Ground Cable
Re: Ground Cable
Re: Ground Cable
Re: Ground Cable
Re: Ground Cable
Re: Ground Cable
Re: ADMIN: Server problems
Re: Ground Cable
Re: 460 info
Re: 351 W, C, M or 400 ???
I need your Wisdom!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:28:18 EDT
Subject: Re: Parts counters was Engine identity

if you email the autozone home office and tell them how you were treated,
they will make it up to you. i had a run in about a battery, i got mad and
emailed a letter to the home office, they sent me gift certificates, equal to
the amount i paid for another battery at an advance auto parts.

jeff grant

------------------------------

From: GMontgo930 aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 00:16:33 EDT
Subject: Re: Supercab bench seat

What did ya put in it's place? Im curious. Ive got a 79 split bench that's
looked better in it's 21 year life! Been toying with one of them fancy ones
in teh JC Whitney but the 600+ they want is hard to part with. Havent really
checked out any used options though.

George in Fl

In a message dated 4/26/2000 2:28:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
luxjo thecore.com writes:

>
> Not sure if you are talking front seat or rear (I assume front), but I
> just yanked a 78 bronc front bench seat and if you want it you can have
> it. I'm in central NJ. It'll need a cover, but it's not too horrible.
>

------------------------------

From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:30:34 EDT
Subject: Re: Supercab bench seat

they all look the same to me. i have a 79 ext cab and i looked at a 86, they
look identical. i also had a 96 and it looked the same

jeff grant

------------------------------

From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:56:53 EDT
Subject: hemi in a f150?

i know this maybe a sin, but if anyone ever wants to put a hemi in their
f150 or 250 truck let me know, i have one for sale for $1200.00

the sin part is: its a 392 chrysler hemi.

jeff grant

------------------------------

From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:36:42 EDT
Subject: Re: guesses on truck's worth?

around georgia decent 73-79 4x4's go from 2500.00 and up real nice ones are
usually in the 45-5000.00 range, ragged out junks start at 1000.00 to 2000.00
the six cylinder may hurt yours, but then again, with the high fuel prices
it may be a plus.

------------------------------

From: "Dave Resch" sybase.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:09:56 -0600
Subject: Re: 351W,C,M or 400


>From: Dan Lee yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: 351W,C,M or 400
>
>There is one error here. The large boss on the block
>at the distributor mount is a feature of the 351M/400.
>On the 351C this boss is almostr level with the block.

Yo Dan, et al:

Not all M-blocks have the raised boss next to the distributor. I have an MCC
block in the garage right now that doesn't have this boss, while the CF block
(351M) in my truck has the raised boss.

(Note sure who originally posted this, but I'll respond to it:)
>The 351C (Cleveland) is actualy related
>more to the M series family of engines than
>the W series.

Actually, the 351C is not related at all to the 351W. The 351C was the first
engine in the design family known as the 335 series, which later included the
400 and 351M. The 400 was introduced in 1971, and the 351M, introduced in 1975,
is simply a destroked 400. None of the engines in the 335 series share any
components with any W-type 90-degree small blocks. The 351M and 351W have the
same bore and stroke, and both displace (approximately) 351 cubic inches.

There was once a rumor (which Pat Ganahl repeats in his "Ford Performance" book)
that the 351M was developed by using a 351W crankshaft in the 400 engine block,
but that is also not true. Although they share the same main and rod bearing
journal diameters, the 351W and 351M crankshafts are unique parts w/ different
casting numbers.

>it has 8 valve cover bolts, and the fuel pump bolts are
>arranged in a verticle fashion. not next to the pump
>side by side.

This is true of all 335 series engines.

>telling a 351C from a 351M is a little tougher.
>the 351C has the small block bolt pattern when
>bolting to a tranny.

This is not readily apparent, unless the two are side-by-side or you are really
familiar w/ the appearance of the different bell housing bolt patterns. The
bigger visual difference between a C and an M-block installed in a vehicle is
the deck height (height of the block under the cylinder heads. The M-block is
nearly an inch taller, but again, you would be hard pressed to recognize this
unless the two were side-by-side for comparison or you are really familiar w/
the two engines.

>351C also has
>a distinctive boss or is larger) at the distributer
>mount that is different from the 351M/400.

This varies from engine to engine and is not a reliable identifier. I have
personally never seen this on a 351C engine block, but it is not on all M-blocks
either. I would suggest that the presence of this boss indicates an M-block,
but its absence is inconclusive.

>now for the 351M (Midland). Ford
>originaly designated the M to mean to represent the
>Midland manufacturing plant but the dealers started
>calling the motors "Modified clevelands" to give the
>buyer a higher impression of a M series engine.

As far as the M designation goes, I have never heard of a Ford "Midland" plant.
The (somewhat) more plausible explanations are "Michigan" and "Modified." All
M-blocks (including other cast engine parts, such as manifolds and cylinder
heads) were cast at either the Cleveland Foundry (CF casting mark) or the
Michigan Casting Center (MCC mark). Even though the terms "Midland,"
"Michigan," and "Modified" may be used commonly, I have never seen those terms
in actual Ford company literature. I have, however, seen Ford brochures for the
1975 and 1976 Torinos that referred to the 351M as a 351 Cleveland!

The most reliable explanations that I have seen say that the "M" is simply a
suffix letter added to the 351 designation to differentiate the engine from the
351 Cleveland and 351 Windsor, and all of Ford's own technical literature refers
to the engine as simply the 351M.

Dave R (M-block devotee)



------------------------------

From: "Bill Beyer" pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: 351 W, C, M or 400 ???
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:13:32 -0500

It doesn't stand for anything...it simply designates the difference between
a C, W and M.

-----Original Message-----
From: 61-79-list-bounce ford-trucks.com
[mailto:61-79-list-bounce ford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of
JUMPINFORD aol.com
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 3:29 PM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: 351 W, C, M or 400 ???


In a message dated 4/24/00 11:18:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, SevnD2 aol.com
writes:

<< It doesn't signify a city, it means it is a 351 Modified from a 400 block
engine. >>

I thought it meant Michigan. Anyone got the answer?





------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:48:52 -0400
From: William King bgnet.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Fans (now thermostats for fans)

Hey Andy and Dennis (and anyone else),
Where did you get the thermostat for your electric fan?
Dennis, did you use the termostat from the IROC?
I have electric fans on all my 'fleet,' but not thermostats (just
a switch inside the cab/car). I want to wire in an automatic temp. switch,
and have seen two options. One is sold by JC Whitney and installs in
the lower radiator hose. The other is sold by Summit, and screws into
a coolant passage on the block or intake manifold. I want to keep away
from the probes you push into the radiator fins (had one of those but
it never worked properly. *snip* I wired a switch in instead).
Anyone have suggestions on this?

Ohio Bill

>Plus you can fine
>tune the tempeture. Like my truck makes the best horse power around 200
>degrees when under a load so the fan doesnt kick on until 220 degrees and
>shuts off at 180 degrees. It takes some time and experimenting but it will
>make a difference.Hope this helps. Andy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:33:53 -0400
From: "Don Haring, Jr." fedora.net>
Subject: Re: Parts Counters

John LaGrone ford-trucks.com> said:
> I said, "You mean that you are going to make all of us customers
> standing in line wanting to give you money stand some more and you
> are going to answer the phones for people with questions?"
> His reply, "Yep." (snip)
> If I had a cell phone back then I would have called him from
> the sales floor.

Haha, that would be something to see. :)

"Yeah, I'll be right over to pick it up. Here I come. I'm passing the
antifreeze display right now."

-don

--
Don in Philadelphia #8142, Editor/Internet Director, Keystone Chapter FCA
66 Falcon Deluxe Club Wagon (daily driver)
61 Falcon Futura | Vespa and Lambretta scooters



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:24:22 -0400
From: Joe Hartwell vt.edu>
Subject: 1979 Ford F-150 Door panels

Hi Folks!

I'm back with another question about Dad's 79 F-150.

I may or may not have mentioned it, but it has a great stereo head unit in it (Alpine CD player), but the speakers are junk, looks like something out of a $2 radio, mounted behind the seat on the floor with sloppy wiring. Did the 79 F-150's have speakers mounted in the door panels? If so, how do I remove these? Any special tools needed? Also, were there speakers mounted in the dash? Again, any special tools needed? I've had my 88 Ranger dash apart so many times I could do it in my sleep, but this 79 is new to me, and it's been 15 years since he had a 78 F-150 like this one.

I'm just hoping to find places to mount speakers where Ford had them originally, without really modifying the truck too much. I figure nice, high quality speakers in factory locations will certainly meet Dad's needs. He's not into competition stereo or anything, but would like to be able to hear a country station from time to time with some resemblence of decent sound quality.

After that, we can proceed with replacing the headliner, the front bumper bolts, etc, etc. There's nothing like polishing an oldie but goody!

Joe Hartwell
88 Ford Ranger-174,000 miles (woo-hoo!)
68 Ford F-100
97 Harley 883 Sportster



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 08:39:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Lee yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel pump blockoff plate for M block??

Ox,

I bought a Chrome Fuel Pump Block Off for my 400 from
Summit Racing. It is not listed in their catalog, but
if you call them or use their website you can get it.
I believe it was a Mr. Gasket part. It comes with a
gasket as well.

Dan Lee
'53 F100
400C-4V


>Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:43:54 -0400
>From: James Oxley thecore.com>
>Subject: Fuel pump blockoff plate for M block??

>Anyone know where I can get one? If not, I'll just
>make it out of alum plate.

> Thanks


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://im.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" alltel.net>
Subject: Re: guesses on truck's worth?
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 03:04:40 -0400


> the six cylinder may hurt yours, but then again, with the high fuel
prices
> it may be a plus.
> ==========================================================
here in N.E OH you could get a NICE 78 or 79 for 2500.00 or so BUT you never
know if its been here long enough to have been eaten up by the winter road
salt either
as for a 6 cylinder increasing the value I DOUBT IT the ford 6 has NEVER
been known to get good fuel mileage around here at least my brother has one
he bought NEW and it gets 10mpg i have even taken it to CHICAGO when he
first got it and thats all it got was 10 M.P.G on the highway when new my 79
with a 3spd over drive stick got 25 mpg on trips before i stuck 4:56s in her
gordon


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:45:04 -0700
From: Jason Derra internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: 9 inch gear swap

I'm not so apt to worry about what company a part came from as long as it works
good.
I have Chevy disc brakes, GM Saginaw steering box and pump, tilt column from a
late '70s Chevy pickup, may have a Toyota add on transfer case all on my '69
Bronco. I can
think of a few Fords with factory installed GM parts on them, so I don't think it
would hurt a bit.
Jason
JUMPINFORDaol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 4/26/00 7:53:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> derrarinternetcds.com writes:
>
> << Heck, for the
> $1700 you spent on your 70, I can still get a military surplus (new) 14 bolt
> with a Detroit locker and 4.56 gears with a warranty for around $1400. >>
>
> True, but the thousands of dollars in therapy Id need in 20 yrs because I
> contaminated one of Fords finest with a GM product doesnt equal out in my
> opinion.
>
> Darrell Duggan
> 74 F-350 "Tweety"
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the
> message.




------------------------------

From: David.R.Johndeluxe.com
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 07:49:28 -0500
Subject: Supercab rear benchseat


David.R.Johndeluxe.com wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me if any of the later 80+ supercab bench seats would fit
> in my 78 supercab? I have the jump seats and would like to get a bench
> seat, and the 70's vintage seats are hard to come by. Any other
> suggestions........
>
> Thanks,
>

Not sure if you are talking front seat or rear (I assume front), but I
just yanked a 78 bronc front bench seat and if you want it you can have
it. I'm in central NJ. It'll need a cover, but it's not too horrible.

OX

Thanks OX but I actually am looking for the rear bench seat, my bad on the
vague post :((. So does anyone have any idea on the rear bench seat
interchangability??

BTW, I already have a 96 front bench seat with the air lumbar and it is a
virtual bolt in with the old seat tracks...........

David John
1978 F250 4x4 Supercab, 460, C6


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:53:47 -0500
Subject: Re: 1979 Ford F-150 Door panels
From: "John LaGrone" ford-trucks.com>

> Did the 79 F-150's have speakers mounted in the door panels? If so, how do
> I remove these? Any special tools needed? Also, were there speakers
> mounted in the dash? Again, any special tools needed?

Joe,

My 79 F150 had round holes already punched in the metal for speakers. These
holes are behind what looks like a grille on the forward part of the door
panel near the window crank. I installed tweeters in the door, some full
range speakers in enclosures under the dash, and another set of full range
in enclosures behind the seat. One of the biggest mistakes people make when
mounting speakers is just putting them out in the open. It may look cool,
but the enclosure is every bit as important as the speaker itself. My truck
had a single speaker mounted in the center of the dash for the stock AM
radio. That speaker is hooked to my CB. Higher option radios may have had (I
hope) a better system. I wired my speakers in a cross fire pattern with the
door tweeters matched to the front set.

Special tools needed would be a maybe. The door panel is held on by a series
of plastic retainers that fit tightly in holes drilled into the door metal.
There are three or four on the bottom edge, two or three up the back, two or
three up the front, and three or four across the top. If you are very
careful, very lucky, or very experienced, you can disengage them with a
screw driver. But if you get careless, you will break the panel as they are
usually brittle with age. You can buy a special trim removal tool that is
split and fits right around the plastic thing to pull it out. You also have
to remove the window crank, which has a spring behind the panel on the
shaft. There are two screws in the armrest in the finger pocket that have to
come out. I hope the don't have the tops rusted off. You will have to drill
holes in the front edge of the door and the cab for the wires. There is a
trick to getting around the metal kick panels. I never did figure it out. I
drilled another hole and played fishy fishy with a coat hanger. Eventually I
got it.

If I forgot something, someone will add it in. Good luck on the stereo.

-- John
jlagroneford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

From: Matt Senn avistacom.net>
Subject: Re: 1979 Ford F-150 Door panels
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:58:10 -0700

when i put my speakers in my 73, i just drilled the holes high enough that i
didn't have to reach behind the kick panels . . .

-----Original Message-----
From: John LaGrone [mailto:jlagroneford-trucks.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 12:54 PM
To: 61-79-listford-trucks.com
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: 1979 Ford F-150 Door panels


> Did the 79 F-150's have speakers mounted in the door panels? If so, how
do
> I remove these? Any special tools needed? Also, were there speakers
> mounted in the dash? Again, any special tools needed?

Joe,

My 79 F150 had round holes already punched in the metal for speakers. These
holes are behind what looks like a grille on the forward part of the door
panel near the window crank. I installed tweeters in the door, some full
range speakers in enclosures under the dash, and another set of full range
in enclosures behind the seat. One of the biggest mistakes people make when
mounting speakers is just putting them out in the open. It may look cool,
but the enclosure is every bit as important as the speaker itself. My truck
had a single speaker mounted in the center of the dash for the stock AM
radio. That speaker is hooked to my CB. Higher option radios may have had (I
hope) a better system. I wired my speakers in a cross fire pattern with the
door tweeters matched to the front set.

Special tools needed would be a maybe. The door panel is held on by a series
of plastic retainers that fit tightly in holes drilled into the door metal.
There are three or four on the bottom edge, two or three up the back, two or
three up the front, and three or four across the top. If you are very
careful, very lucky, or very experienced, you can disengage them with a
screw driver. But if you get careless, you will break the panel as they are
usually brittle with age. You can buy a special trim removal tool that is
split and fits right around the plastic thing to pull it out. You also have
to remove the window crank, which has a spring behind the panel on the
shaft. There are two screws in the armrest in the finger pocket that have to
come out. I hope the don't have the tops rusted off. You will have to drill
holes in the front edge of the door and the cab for the wires. There is a
trick to getting around the metal kick panels. I never did figure it out. I
drilled another hole and played fishy fishy with a coat hanger. Eventually I
got it.

If I forgot something, someone will add it in. Good luck on the stereo.

-- John
jlagroneford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

==========================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the
message.



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:05:58 -0400
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: ADMIN: Server problems

The server was down for an undetermined period of time. The log
directory filled up on the system and caused all services which
use log files to stop (mail, web, ftp, etc.). The situation has
been corrected and safeguards put into place to prevent future
occurances. I've been out of commission with a stomach flu for
the past two days and was not aware of the problem until this
afternoon.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:45:08 -0500
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Server problems
From: "John LaGrone" ford-trucks.com>

> The server was down for an undetermined period of time. The log
> directory filled up on the system and caused all services which
> use log files to stop (mail, web, ftp, etc.). The situation has
> been corrected and safeguards put into place to prevent future
> occurances. I've been out of commission with a stomach flu for
> the past two days and was not aware of the problem until this
> afternoon.
>
> Ken Payne
> Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts

Now, Ken. you know the first rule of system administration is that you
aren't allowed to be sick. The second rule is that if you violate the first
rule, somehow the system knows and it will crash, usually in the worst
possible manner.

Hope you are doing better.

-- John
jlagroneford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:31:20 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson ctc.edu>
Subject: Re: Fans (now thermostats for fans)

Thanks for your message at 07:48 AM 4/27/00 -0400, William King. Your
message was:
>Hey Andy and Dennis (and anyone else),
>Where did you get the thermostat for your electric fan?
>Dennis, did you use the termostat from the IROC?
>I have electric fans on all my 'fleet,' but not thermostats (just
>a switch inside the cab/car).

I, too, use my brain and my eyes as the thermostat-switch. I keep thinking
about getting the automatic thermo-switch, but everything's been cool (pun
intended) so far without it. If anything, I probably leave the fan on more
than the automatic switch would. I have two temp gauges and couldn't
figure why they showed different readings, especially when the fan is
on...Then I finally figured out that one of them is for the engine, the
other is for the tranny...And, I am not exactly sure where it reads
from...what is the logical place to look for a tranny temperature sensor?
Just curious.







Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (Cadillac 500)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm

------------------------------

From: "Nelson, Mike" fdles.state.fl.us>
Subject: Ground Cable
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:51:15 -0400

Hi, I'm new to the list and am just learning about most of this stuff. I
have a question about the ground cable that has been in discussion. Why do
you have to ground it to the block and then from the block to the frame?
Can you just run a ground cable to the frame?

Thanks


Mike
Tallahassee, FL
61' F-350 Dump Truck (Liltoot), 223, 5.83 Rockwell International rear.
76' Bronco Ranger, 302, C4

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:41:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Fans (now thermostats for fans)
From: "John LaGrone" ford-trucks.com>

> Then I finally figured out that one of them is for the engine, the
> other is for the tranny...And, I am not exactly sure where it reads
> from...what is the logical place to look for a tranny temperature sensor?
> Just curious.

Why, on the side of the tranny of course. Just funnin you Dennis. Actually I
have seen a number of engines that have two temperature sensors, one for the
block and one for the heads. It is possible for the heads to overheat
without the block overheating, like in a blown head gasket situation or a
stopped up water gallery. If there isn't a big difference in the temps, one,
the hotter one, might be for a head.

-- John
jlagroneford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:07:49 -0700
From: "Kiernan, Denny" wenet.net>
Subject: Re: Ground Cable

Nelson, Mike wrote:
>
> Hi, I'm new to the list and am just learning about most of this stuff. I
> have a question about the ground cable that has been in discussion. Why do
> you have to ground it to the block and then from the block to the frame?
> Can you just run a ground cable to the frame?

I've got a question, too. I've never been able to understand how a
ground to the frame provides a real ground, if the frame is separated
from the earth by rubber tires.

It is said that a very safe place to be in a lightning storm is in an
auto because it's isolated from the earth.

Denny
'72 F-100 360 2WD Manual everything, 140K last time I noticed.

------------------------------

From: "Southerland, Rich" alldata.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Cable
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:19:57 -0700

Okay. Problem in understanding the concept is people equate "ground" in an
electrical circuit (in this case, a truck) with the "ground" (earth) that we
walk on.

You answered your own question, albeit in a roundabout way. When a
lightning bolt "strikes", it is looking for a path to complete the circuit
to "ground". Should the bolt strike your truck, the rubber tires stop the
current from flowing through it (and you) on it's way to the ground (in this
example, the "real" ground).

Confused yet? (I am...)

On the reason for grounding the engine to the body...
The alternator needs a good ground to properly regulate it's output.
Without a proper cable or strap from the engine to the body, the alternator
is forced to try and find a ground through other sources like engine mounts,
cables, and other poor conductors of electricity. Extra grounds can only
help.

Several years back when I was wrenching for a living, we had a Ni**an come
into the shop that had broke it's 3rd clutch cable in less than 60 days. I
installed the 4th and went for a test drive. Upon completing the drive, I
checked the cable once again and BURNED the crap out of my fingertips! The
cable was hot! Upon further investigation, we discovered there was no
ground from the engine to the body. The alternator was grounding itself
through the cable and the high heat was killing the cables!

Grounds are good!

Nelson, Mike wrote:
>
> Hi, I'm new to the list and am just learning about most of this stuff. I
> have a question about the ground cable that has been in discussion. Why
do
> you have to ground it to the block and then from the block to the frame?
> Can you just run a ground cable to the frame?

I've got a question, too. I've never been able to understand how a
ground to the frame provides a real ground, if the frame is separated
from the earth by rubber tires.

It is said that a very safe place to be in a lightning storm is in an
auto because it's isolated from the earth.

Denny

------------------------------

From: Matt Senn avistacom.net>
Subject: Re: Ground Cable
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:26:53 -0700

this subject confuses everybody . . . i just finished rebuilding my engine,
and i had the hardest time explaining to my Ch**y lover friend why my
starter only needed one wire . . . he couldn't understand that the
transmission/engine/frame/body acted as the "wire" returning the electrical
current to the battery thus completing the circuit to make the starter run .
. .


-----Original Message-----
Okay. Problem in understanding the concept is people equate "ground" in an
electrical circuit (in this case, a truck) with the "ground" (earth) that we
walk on.



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:29:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Ground Cable
From: "John LaGrone" ford-trucks.com>

> I've got a question, too. I've never been able to understand how a
> ground to the frame provides a real ground, if the frame is separated
> from the earth by rubber tires.

The ground here is to complete the circuit in the vehicle's electrical
system. You are correct to some extent about the insulation. Actually,
lightning can and does strike cars and trucks and airplanes. But you are on
the inside and the lightning is on the outside. A bolt that jumps several
miles from a cloud to the earth isn't going to hiccup going past your tires.

-- John
jlagroneford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:32:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Ground Cable
From: "John LaGrone" ford-trucks.com>

> Why do
> you have to ground it to the block and then from the block to the frame?
> Can you just run a ground cable to the frame?

As long as the ground battery post, the engine block, and the frame are all
connected to each other in fine fashion, you are in business. Your starter
and alternator are on the block, both vital to the electrical system working
properly. BTW, you should have a ground strap from the cab to the frame
also.

-- John
jlagroneford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

From: "wish" ford-trucks.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:36:21 GMT
Subject: Re: Ground Cable

>Why do
>you have to ground it to the block and then from the block to the frame?
>Can you just run a ground cable to the frame?
>

Because of the motor mounts ... the mounts are rubber so they insulate the motor
from the rest of the vehicle ... there may be bits of wire and stuff that cross
back and forth, but ideally those all carry juice to the sensor and the sensor
or whatever grounds to the block, since the block is insulated it could store
the charge and cause all the stuff to reach a 0 state and then you've got bad
stuff happening ...

Think about the motor mounts, there shouldn't be any metal to metal contact
in them so there's no way for the current to get transferred to the frame ...


Someone else also questioned calling the frame "ground" when its obiviously
steel with no direct link to the ground...

Ground is a generic term for the "common" terminal, for our trucks and such
its the (-) side of the battery (old British cars its the (+) right?) ... anyway
we assume negative to be the common side of things and just run everything to
the negative side of the battery, if you unhook the negative cable, the car
won't start ... why? the circuit's not complete, the battery itself isn't "grounded"
. Make sense? I hope so, I just got out of a meeting and my brain is about
to go flat I think...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORDaol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:17:41 EDT
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Server problems

Thanks Ken, Much appreciated. Hope your feelin better.

Darrell & Tweety

------------------------------

From: canzusseanet.com
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:00:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Ground Cable

At 02:07 PM 27:04:2000 -0700, Kiernan, Denny wrote:
>Nelson, Mike wrote:
>>
>> Hi, I'm new to the list and am just learning about most of this stuff. I
>> have a question about the ground cable that has been in discussion. Why do
>> you have to ground it to the block and then from the block to the frame?
>> Can you just run a ground cable to the frame?
>
>I've got a question, too. I've never been able to understand how a
>ground to the frame provides a real ground, if the frame is separated
>from the earth by rubber tires.
>
>It is said that a very safe place to be in a lightning storm is in an
>auto because it's isolated from the earth.
>

You could consider an automobiles version of "ground" as an
isolated ground. Which means it's not connected to "ground"
as you would expect. Most electric fork lifts are "electricly enclosed".
Meaning the "ground" or negative isn't a chassis "ground", but
goes directly to the battery negative.

Automotive "ground" is the chassis type of "ground". Which if you
did that on an electric fork lift, all manner of odd conditions would
occur, the main one being that when you ask for traction, you get lift,
and vice-versa, which could be very embarrassing, and expensive...

If you want, take a look at what I work on, go to www.crown.com/
click on "products", click on "United States" then pick one from the list

More fun than a guy should be allowed to have, dressed...

Steve & the Rockette
68 F100, 390cid, FMX
63 F100, 292cid, 3speed
72 Capri 2000, hers
73 Capri 2600,tube frame going in.....
73 MGB GT, Our Toy
94 SHO, SWMBO's
98 Contour SVT, Mine, Mine, All Mine....


------------------------------

From: "Serian" flashmail.com>
Subject: Re: 460 info
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:35:06 -0400

> >Can anyone
> >tell me the firing order and which is the number one
> cylinder on a 460?

Firing order is the same as for the 302
15426378

#1 is the cylinder on the passenger side
closest to the radiator



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:52:36 -0700
From: Jason Derra internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: 351 W, C, M or 400 ???

It stands for Modified. As in a modified 400.
Jason

Bill Beyer wrote:

> It doesn't stand for anything...it simply designates the difference between
> a C, W and M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 61-79-list-bounceford-trucks.com
> [mailto:61-79-list-bounceford-trucks.com]On Behalf Of
> JUMPINFORDaol.com
> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 3:29 PM
> To: 61-79-listford-trucks.com
> Subject: [61-79-list] Re: 351 W, C, M or 400 ???
>
> In a message dated 4/24/00 11:18:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, SevnD2aol.com
> writes:
>
> << It doesn't signify a city, it means it is a 351 Modified from a 400 block
> engine. >>
>
> I thought it meant Michigan. Anyone got the answer?
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the
> message.




------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORDaol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 00:03:33 EDT
Subject: I need your Wisdom!

Ok folks, here it is. I just finished searching the archives, and EVERY
SINGLE person that has done a 460 4speed combo has done it differently. Some
machine down 460 flywheels to fit in 400 bellhousings, some have flywheels
redrilled to work with different pressure plates, some have done stuff that
seems to wierd even for me. So here it is. the C-6 in Tweety died today,
dumped all its oil out the bellhousing. I have acquired the parts I thought
necessary, they list as follows:

Pedal assembly & clutch linkage from a 78 Bronco
Bellhousing for a 400 from said Bronco
360 Flywheel, freshly surfaced, with a new ring gear.
360 pressure plate and clutch disk
Warn T-18
the long forward driveshaft
manual tranny steering column
floor pan for a manual

I dont have the pilot bushing, or the throwout bearing yet. I assume a 400
T/O bushing will work, but I am lost as to the pilot bushing, and whether or
not I'll even be able to bolt it all together. Im lookin in your direction
Azie, but anyone else with the right info, I need ya. If I cant make this
work, Im afraid to say Tweety is going to have to be sold for parts, so I can
get something that goes. I cant have this truck down, as it is how I get to
work and back. I dont wanna think about that, as Ive put a lot of hard work
into it, and I do NOT want something so stupid as a pilot bushing problem to
get in the way.

Thanks

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety" VERY SICK

------------------------------

End of 61-79-list Digest V2000 #83
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