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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 61-79-list); Sat, 04 Mar 2000 14:05:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 14:05:01 -0500 (EST) From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server To: 61-79-list digest users Reply-to: 61-79-list  ford-trucks.com Subject: 61-79-list Digest V2000 #28 Precedence: bulk ========================================================== Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1961-1979 Truck Mailing List Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the message. ========================================================== ------------------------------------ 61-79-list Digest Fri, 03 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 028 In This Issue: vv replacement Re: mufflers Re: Replacement for the Variable Venturi Carb Re: leaking gastank Re: 460 Exhaust Re: 460 Exhaust Re: 71 Ford For Sale Re: 460 Exhaust Re: 460 Exhaust Re: floppy automatic shift lever fix Re: 460 Exhaust Re: 460 Exhaust Re: 460 Exhaust Re: 460 Exhaust Re: leaking gastank Re: 460 Exhaust F I Re: 460 Exhaust Re: 460 Exhaust Re: electric choke Edelbrock Baja bound Re: Midas Re: floppy automatic shift lever fix Re: 428 With a Hole In One Mufflers/JB weld/8-71 Re: 428 With a Hole In One 351C in a Falcon Re: 460 Exhaust Re: 460 Exhaust Re: 428 With a Hole In One Re: 351 info Transmission gear ratios....... Re: 78 VAN SPINDLES steering slop ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Harvey, Blaine" Subject: vv replacement Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:55:04 -0500 The dreaded variable adventure. I changed the one on my Crown Vic 87-351, putting a Motorcraft from an 84 Crown Vic 302. Had to fiddle a bit with linkage because of different motor size but on a 302 should be, as the man says, a piece of cake. Works great. I originally asked Holley tech support via e-mail what they suggested to replace it and they said: "The Sales # is 1-684. Also if you have a T.P.S. on your original Carb. and it is on the Choke side you will need a different T.P.S.,. Sales # 11-505." Note that they wanted the carb tag number before suggesting a replacement. I have no idea what the price is but you can be sure it is more than finding a used Motorcraft in a yard. > From: "Bill Beyer" > Subject: Re: Replacement for the Variable Venturi Carb > > The mechanics in the local school bus barn are needing > > to find a good replacement carb for the variable venturi > > Motorcraft carb on a 1983 model 302 auto F-100. Soemthing of > > a different design. > > > > Any good suggestions for a bolt in replacement since it has all > > the electrical gadgets still hooked up from the factory. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Stu > > Nuke GM! > ------------------------------ From: "Scott Jensen" Subject: Re: mufflers Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 07:07:36 -0800 Like Gary, I too know that flowered look new mufflers can get..:( ------------------------------ From: nukegm ford-trucks.com Subject: Re: Replacement for the Variable Venturi Carb Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:07:58 -0800 Thanks for all the help with the VV carb!! I will let ya'll know how it turns out. Stu Nuke GM! ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 11:40:10 -0800 From: John Lord Subject: Re: leaking gastank Where i am the local Radiator shops offer a process that coats the inside and outside of the gas tank with an epoxy material. it fixes small holes and solves the problem of material flaking off the inside of the tank. Most gas tanks are tin plated on the inside and condensation will cause the plating to decay and flake off, also causing a rust problem. gene gardner wrote: > Funny someone mentioned JB Weld for patching a float just when I was getting > ready to write. Is this stuff good for sealing a leak on the corner seam of > a gastank? Any better ideas? For now I'm talking about repairing, not > replacing. Gracias. > > Texican Teacher 70 F100 shortbed w 300-I6 > ______________________________________________________ > > > ========================================================== > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with > the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the > message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 13:25:38 -0600 Subject: Re: 460 Exhaust From: "John LaGrone" > Gary, > Thank you for your insite on 2 1/2" or 3" exhaust. I talked to my > (mechanics) at work. They told me that 3" would be just fine. Just make sure > I run an "H" or "X" in the pipe before the mufflers. That will help equalize > pressure. Now, Luke, I'm not saying don't put an H pipe in. Gary and others have tried to explain this to me before and I am just thick on this subject I guess. Why do you want to equalize pressure and run duals? The whole purpose of duals is to separate the banks. If you are going to install an H pipe, it would be cheaper to just run a regular Y pipe into a single exhaust. I'm sorry guys and gals, I just don't understand this one. -- John jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-) 1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm Dearborn iron rules!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 13:44:11 -0600 Subject: Re: 460 Exhaust From: "John LaGrone" > No matter how large you make your pipe there will be "back > pressure" or an elevated pressure over ambient measured in PSI at the > exhaust valve. It may not be measurable but it's there :-) The commonly > used term "back pressure" actually refers to tuning via sound waves and can > be negative or positive pressure depending on the rpm and where the exhaust > is "tuned" for optimum "negative" pressure at the valves. Again, I'm confused. I'm not arguing results, I just don't understand the reasoning. Back pressure is indeed pressure that is typically caused by restrictive exhaust systems such as your muffler and kinked pipes that cause turbulence. The reason you don't want zero back pressure is because you will destroy your engine in short order. Watch a stock car when they shut it down. they immediately stick a rag or a cap over the open exhaust. Otherwise as the engine cools down it will suck all of that nice cold wet atmosphere up into the exhaust manifold. I read all of this many years ago, I'm not making up as I go along. Rusted mufflers are cheaper than rusted valves and heads. Any muffler that passes inspection in Texas is going to have enough back pressure to prevent backwards flow on shut down. You can't have negative pressure (that would be a vacuum) in the exhaust system of a running engine. Now you could have lots of turbulence and constriction causing a build up of pressure to the point that the exhaust could not evacuate the cylinder as fully as needed resulting in poor performance. You would need a pump of some type at the atmosphere end or some pretty high altitude. -- John jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-) 1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm Dearborn iron rules!!!! ------------------------------ From: "PitStop Performance" Subject: Re: 71 Ford For Sale Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 14:01:00 CST What is the front end like? I need a right front fender, filler panel between hood and grille, filler panel between bumper and grille, entire grille, and plastic inserts. Harry. ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "William S. Hart" Subject: Re: 460 Exhaust Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:02:14 -0600 > Why do you want to equalize pressure and run duals? The whole purpose of > duals is to separate the banks. Okay John, lets try this again and I'll try and be quick ... basically the H or X or whatever "balance tube" you want to use is in there to help the scavanging effects of the moving air ... pretty much the exhaust generates pulses just like the intake does only its a pressure wave instead of a vaccuum wave ... a well placed balance tube will cause the pulses to help pull the other side down the pipe and hence reduce your back pressures ... Dunno if that's makin any sense or not ... the NASCAR boys that we all watch on tv are actually running an X design so the pulses cross eachother ... its been proven on the dyno, so there's gotta be something to it ... :) Just my $.02 wish 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L (H pipe) 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L (true duals) http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish ------------------------------ From: "Bill Beyer" Subject: Re: 460 Exhaust Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:10:50 -0800 The purpose of duals is to provide a quicker exit for the exhaust gases. Think about it...two 3 inch pipes can obviously carry more volume than one 3 inch pipe, like twice as much. Now you understand that exhaust gases don't flow in a steady steam out of the pipes, they travel in pulses based on the RPM of the motor. The purpose of the H or X pipe as I understand it is to "balance" the exhaust pulses and provide additional scavenging effect which assists in pulling the exhaust gases out of the system. That's why placement of the crossover is critical to the effectiveness of the system. "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets" ----- Original Message ----- From: John LaGrone To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 11:25 AM Subject: [61-79-list] Re: 460 Exhaust > > Gary, > > Thank you for your insite on 2 1/2" or 3" exhaust. I talked to my > > (mechanics) at work. They told me that 3" would be just fine. Just make sure > > I run an "H" or "X" in the pipe before the mufflers. That will help equalize > > pressure. > > Now, Luke, I'm not saying don't put an H pipe in. Gary and others have tried > to explain this to me before and I am just thick on this subject I guess. > Why do you want to equalize pressure and run duals? The whole purpose of > duals is to separate the banks. If you are going to install an H pipe, it > would be cheaper to just run a regular Y pipe into a single exhaust. I'm > sorry guys and gals, I just don't understand this one. ------------------------------ From: Brazzadog aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 15:10:56 EST Subject: Re: floppy automatic shift lever fix > From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" > > Mine is like this too.How did you fix it? Yeah, me too. Lay it on us. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 ------------------------------ From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" Subject: Re: 460 Exhaust Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 15:21:22 -0500 John, it's primarily because the banks don't fire in exactly a sequential order, first one bank then the other then the first then the other.....like that so the balance tube allows the "extra" pulse to get shared so it doesn't cause as much of a timing disruption....kind of evens out the pulses between the banks. Indy cars use headers that cross over the top of the engine to maximize this by making the pulses exactly sequential in each bank. Instead of cylinders 1-4 going to the same bank they go to the bank that is right for the firing order making the pulse timing exactly even on both sides. Remember some engines have cylinders 7 and 8 firing sequentially into the same bank. In a V-8 there will ALWAYS be two cylinders which do this, at least two. On an indy car with the cross over setup cylinder 7 will exhaust into the left bank and 8 in the right bank or visa/versa to keep the pulses even......see? -- Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping, 78 Bronco Loving, Gary -- >Why do you want to equalize pressure and run duals? The whole >purpose of >duals is to separate the banks. If you are going to install an ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 14:33:22 -0600 Subject: Re: 460 Exhaust From: "John LaGrone" >> Why do you want to equalize pressure and run duals? The whole purpose of >> duals is to separate the banks. > > Okay John, lets try this again and I'll try and be quick ... > > basically the H or X or whatever "balance tube" you want to use is in there > to help the scavanging effects of the moving air ... pretty much the exhaust > generates pulses just like the intake does only its a pressure wave instead > of a vaccuum wave ... a well placed balance tube will cause the pulses to > help pull the other side down the pipe and hence reduce your back pressures Bill, This is the same explanation proffered before. I'll take your word that it works. If it didn't NASCAR wouldn't be doing it. I personally do not want an H pipe or any other equalizer between my duals. I'm not going to be turning 8k with my asthmatic M block, either. ;-) -- John jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-) 1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm Dearborn iron rules!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 14:38:05 -0600 Subject: Re: 460 Exhaust From: "John LaGrone" > The purpose of duals is to provide a quicker exit for the exhaust gases. > Think about it...two 3 inch pipes can obviously carry more volume than one 3 > inch pipe, like twice as much. Now you understand that exhaust gases don't > flow in a steady steam out of the pipes, they travel in pulses based on the > RPM of the motor. The purpose of the H or X pipe as I understand it is to > "balance" the exhaust pulses and provide additional scavenging effect which > assists in pulling the exhaust gases out of the system. That's why placement > of the crossover is critical to the effectiveness of the system. Yep, Bill, I get all of that. Just what causes this scavenging effect? Before that, maybe I don't understand scavenging effect. To me scavenging means sucking it out on the exhaust stroke. What kind of drop are we looking at in the pressure gradient? How much drop in pressure gives how many horses? At what RPM? Wish says dyno proven. Wish? -- John jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-) 1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm Dearborn iron rules!!!! ------------------------------ From: "William S. Hart" Subject: Re: 460 Exhaust Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:38:16 -0600 > I'm not going to > be turning > 8k with my asthmatic M block, either. ;-) > Wimp :) Just my $.02 wish 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 12:39:40 -0800 From: Clare Waterman-Storer Subject: Re: leaking gastank I patched a hole in the seam of the gas tank on an old alfa spider of mine quite successfully with jb weld. I made up a patch with fiberglass sheeting (the kind sold for doing bondo body repair) and worker the jb weld into the fiberglas and put it over the well cleaned hole. it set up overnight , then i put a second layer patch on that. it fixed the leak and never gave me anothe problem. clare John Lord wrote: > Where i am the local Radiator shops offer a process that coats the inside and > outside of the gas tank with an epoxy material. it fixes small holes and solves > the problem of material flaking off the inside of the tank. Most gas tanks are > tin plated on the inside and condensation will cause the plating to decay and > flake off, also causing a rust problem. > > gene gardner wrote: > > > Funny someone mentioned JB Weld for patching a float just when I was getting > > ready to write. Is this stuff good for sealing a leak on the corner seam of > > a gastank? Any better ideas? For now I'm talking about repairing, not > > replacing. Gracias. > > > > Texican Teacher 70 F100 shortbed w 300-I6 > > ______________________________________________________ > > > > > > ========================================================== > > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with > > the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the > > message. > > ========================================================== > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with > the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the > message. -- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Listar -- -- Type: text/x-vcard -- File: waterman.vcf -- Desc: Card for Clare Waterman-Storer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 14:52:08 -0600 Subject: Re: 460 Exhaust From: "John LaGrone" > On an > indy car with the cross over setup cylinder 7 will exhaust into the left > bank and 8 in the right bank or visa/versa to keep the pulses even......see? See, I guess this is where the rub comes in. I just don't see how it can have a measurable effect on a 2K - 4K street engine. -- John jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-) 1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm Dearborn iron rules!!!! ------------------------------ From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com Subject: F I Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 15:47:22 -0500 Paul R. writes: >>Just wondering is there a fuel injection setup that can be added to a 460??? What would be the most likely donor????<< A late model 460 from the local Salvage yard??? Electronics and all!!! Azie Magnusson Ardmore, Al ------------------------------ From: "William S. Hart" Subject: Re: 460 Exhaust Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:59:16 -0600 I'm just amazed we all said almost exactly the same thing in almost the same words :) > Yep, Bill, I get all of that. Just what causes this scavenging effect? > Before that, maybe I don't understand scavenging effect. To me scavenging > means sucking it out on the exhaust stroke. What kind of drop are > we looking > at in the pressure gradient? How much drop in pressure gives how many > horses? At what RPM? Wish says dyno proven. Wish? > Lets start with the whole vaccuum effect ... by blowing across an orifice you can create a certain amount of suction on the other side right ? Sort of like a paint gun, shoot the air past the paint and some of it will be sucked up into the airstream ... Well this is the same principle by balancing the tube between them, you shoot one exhaust pulse past the balance tube and as it passes it will create a slight vaccuum at the balance tube...because the tube is hooked to the other bank of cylinders there is a pressure drop in that tube just in time for the pulse from the next firing cylinder to hit that side thereby reducing the back pressure on that pulse and allowing it to travel freely out of the cylinder and down to at least the balance tube ... That's my understanding there anyway, as for rpm's that its effective at, it should be at all rpm's and can be tuned to various ones by moving the tube closer or farther from the motor ... I think the supposed official way to do that is to draw a mark on the tube with a marker or crayon or something, and where it burns off is where you need the tube ... *shrug* I don't remember for sure ... Just my $.02 wish 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 15:39:46 -0600 Subject: Re: 460 Exhaust From: "John LaGrone" > I'm just amazed we all said almost exactly the same thing in almost the same > words :) > Lets start with the whole vaccuum effect ... by blowing across an orifice > you can create a certain amount of suction on the other side right ? Sort > of like a paint gun, shoot the air past the paint and some of it will be > sucked up into the airstream ... > > Well this is the same principle by balancing the tube between them, you > shoot one exhaust pulse past the balance tube and as it passes it will > create a slight vaccuum at the balance tube...because the tube is hooked to > the other bank of cylinders there is a pressure drop in that tube just in > time for the pulse from the next firing cylinder to hit that side thereby > reducing the back pressure on that pulse and allowing it to travel freely > out of the cylinder and down to at least the balance tube ... Yay, whoopee, yeehaw. At last somebody said something in terms that I was looking for. OK, this principle is called the venturri effect. That is why your carb works, etc. OK, I've got it. Now I understand what it is supposed to do and why. I have to now endorse the idea and I will never bad mouth H-pipes again. I still don't want one, though. Thanks Bill for being the first across the finish line and thanks to Bill and Gary for their effort and patience. Your input helped, too. Have a great weekend. -- John jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-) 1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm Dearborn iron rules!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:58:24 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Lee Subject: Re: electric choke Edelbrock Steve, All you need is a switched +12V source conected to the terminal on the electric choke. You might want to buy an Edelbrock tuning kit(Rods, Jets and Springs) to tune the carb. The Edelbrock Performer Manifold (dual plane) would also be a good idea. I have a Carter 750CFM (same as Edelbrock) and an Edelbrock performer on my 400. Dan Lee '53 F100 400C-4V >From: borrani att.net >Subject: electric choke Edelbrock >Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 03:36:20 +0000 >Hey all, >Just bout a practically new and unused Edelbrock 750 >electric choke, mech secondary carb on Ebay. My >current Holley 600 does not have the choke hooked up >(bought truck a month ago). What will I have to do to >hook up the electric choke? What supplies should I be >getting while the carb gets sent to me? Truck is a '75 >F-250 w/460 on stock intake (anyone got a Performer to >sell cheap?). >Steve S. >Seattle, WA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 14:45:19 -0800 Subject: Baja bound From: "Jeff Norville" Since I subscribed to The List last year I have learned a few things about my Bronco - swapped motors (smog-legal too!), beefed the suspension, clutch, now the 4spd, etc. I appreciate all the knowledge, patience, and feedback - time to go test the thing now. Headed down with kayak strapped firmly to the rack beginning tomorrow to do what I do best, paddle around the Sea of Cortez in a skinny boat (when not bouncing around in a wide 4x4). Promise to post photos on my return. Unless anything goes wrong. Then I blame you all. :-) Truthfully, I am going to miss the list during my unsubscribed absence... Off to buy my high-lift jack now. Buenos dias. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 14:58:39 -0700 From: "Kiernan, Denny" Subject: Re: Midas A friend writes me: > In defense of Midas, I had some work done at the Midas shop here in San Mateo, > and WAS pleased at the quality of the work and the courtesy of the staff. > Maybe, on the whole, we'd rather NOT be in Philadelphia. Denny '72 F-100 360 2WD Manual everything, 140K ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 19:35:49 -0500 From: "Don Haring, Jr." Subject: Re: floppy automatic shift lever fix Jeff Grant >i was tired of the floppy atomatic shift lever on the column, so i fixed it >for less than $5.00 and its probably tighter than new. if anyone else is >interested to know how it was done let me know. i just don't want to do all >that typing if no one is interested. Jeff, I'd be interested in knowing how you did it. I am always curious to read new tech advice even if I can't use it right away. I would suggest typing it up and saving the file, and then you could submit a tech article to Ken for the ford-trucks website. That way you'll only have to do it once and the information will always be there to help out others. -don -- Don in Philadelphia Internet Director, Keystone Chapter FCA | 66 Falcon Deluxe Club Wagon Falconaut: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://fedora.net/falconaut | 61 Falcon Futura Keystone: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://fedora.net/falconkey | classic scooters and bicycles ------------------------------ From: ballingr bootheel.net Subject: Re: 428 With a Hole In One Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 19:12:10 -0600 > Ouch! How can you prevent this from happening if this caused the hole? > Rollie I think it was ignition crossfire. You need to keep 7 and 8 plug wires as far apart as possible. 8 fires after 7 and they are both to each other in the bank and at the cap. I run 7 in the spot on the loom where you would normally put number 5. It seems to have kept the demon at bay. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 17:39:03 -0800 From: scott Subject: Mufflers/JB weld/8-71 > I > then went to > stainless 21/2" that feeds two, 2 chamber flowmasters that sit > under the cab > and the turndowns are just behind the cab. Yes you can tell when > I'm coming > and I have a very good neighbour who doesn't mind the noise but the > surprising part is how quiet (relatively) in the cab. >You're joking right ? My old 360 used to have dumps over the rear axle >running headers, 2", and super turbo's ... that was loud, but I didn't >realize how loud until I ran the pipes out the back ... I just swapped my tubo mufflers for 3 chamber Flowmasters and the truck is much quieter.Too quiet.You only hear the Flows at idle and when you punch it.I wish I would have bought the 2 chamber version. >Funny someone mentioned JB Weld for patching a float just when I was >getting ready to write. Is this stuff good for sealing a leak on the >corner seam of a gastank? >I would say that if it's in the seam of the tank ,that J.B. Weld will >stop the leak for awhile, JB weld will work UNTIL you buy a new tank.We used it on a small hole in the bottom of the tamk in my bro's Bronco.It held for quite a while. His tank was rusted from all the dirt that got caught between the skid plate and the tank.JB weld fixed the pin hole,but as we all know rust never sleeps and the whole bottom of the tank eventualy let go. >I can only dream of a 460 with a 871 on top some day in one of my >workaday trucks.........Stumps would not only come out when I hooked on >they would jump out in fear :-) -- Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping, 78 Bronco Loving, Gary - I too have always wanted to drive down the street looking at a "Bugcatcher"sticking out of the hood of my 76. It would have to be blolted to a FE tho.... >Jeff, I would think the blown FE engine would be too radical >for a truck Maybe we could pitch in and buy that blown FE and ship it here to Reno and I'll do some "drivability research"and let everyone know how it goes ;) ------------------------------ From: SevnD2 aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 01:28:26 EST Subject: Re: 428 With a Hole In One In a message dated 03/03/2000 8:15:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, ballingr bootheel.net writes: << I think it was ignition crossfire. You need to keep 7 and 8 plug wires as far apart as possible. 8 fires after 7 and they are both to each other in the bank and at the cap. I run 7 in the spot on the loom where you would normally put number 5. It seems to have kept the demon at bay. >> Seems to be the thing to be most aware of. I will try using the seperation technique so I won't set this up to happen again. I am wondering if there are any simptoms of this crossfire. Does it make a different sound than a skip or miss. Just dont like finding out the results of it and having no simptoms to be aware of. :-( Thanks for the info. Rollie Hunt ------------------------------ From: ballingr bootheel.netSubject: 351C in a Falcon Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 04:49:15 -0600 >Eric, >Is the 351C a 2V or 4V? If it's a 2V, put that one in >the truck and the 351W in the Falcon. If the 351C is a >4V, put that in the Falcon. '63 Falcons came stock >with a 260, but the suspension was beefier than the 6 >cyl. version. I put a 351C-4V in a '67 Mustang and the >only change required was the radiator outlet. It's best to use a t-bolt style shock tower kit when putting a 351C in an early Falcon, Fairlane or '65-'66 Mustang. You'll have to do some surgery to make it fit right , and the kit will make it look better and be much stronger. ------------------------------ From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" Subject: Re: 460 Exhaust Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 07:36:52 -0500 It doesn't, that was my whole point. The balance tube probably has little effect untill you try to open it up because at low rpms the piston is "pushing" the exhaust out but at higher rpms you need some kind of flow syncronization for best results to keep the column moving in the pipes which is where resonant tuning has it's best effects and the reason is less time for each event. In lab tests it has been proven that resonant tuning will improve performance at "any" rpm but it is very specific to that rpm. Attempting to gain more at low rpm will choke the engine at high rpm using this strategy but trying to get more top end will have less effect on the bottom using this strategy so if you do attempt to resonance tune, tune for top end and you will still get a broader torque band (usually) with a small sacrifice to the bottom. In a 302 application in a heavy truck this may be significant and you may have to compromise more for best low end performance but with a 460 it is totally moot unless you are pulling a house around all the time :-) In both cases, top end performance will suffer to gain maximum bottom end regardless because of the special application which requires maximum low end. As I said before, "There ain.............. Take a look at the torque numbers for an engine some time and see where the torque peak is. This is where the cam overlap, intake flow and exhaust flow are exactly matched and the cylinders are receiving the greatest volume of mixture to be compressed and cylinder pressure is at it's highest level. You can raise or lower the rpm where this occurs by changing the cam, the intake or the exhaust. Speaking from the standpoint of starting from scratch, not looking at any particular stock setup then, the cam has the largest direct effect, the intake is next and exhaust is least influential but still a consideration, especially if it is too restrictive. As many have said the FE's have poor manifolds, the 460's have poor ports etc. so these need to be fixed but then you have the cam and intake and then you can play with the exhaust to gain a little more but as long as your pipes are large enough you have to really get down to some lab level testing to find the advantages of one over the other where a cam change can easily make large HP and torque changes as can intake setups, again, as long as the exhaust is not restrictive, regardless of it's length or type of mufflers etc... The balance tube may have some venturi effect when all pulses are evenly syncronized but when you have two firing in the same bank like the 7/8 sequence the effect is badly compromised which leads me to believe that it simply causes a "sharing" of the pulse on both sides once past the headers where most of the tuning work gets done in this particular case. In it's best form a single pipe, twice as large (roughly) and connected exactly centered between the collectors would probably provide the best inmprovement in torque over the whole spectrum since that tube would only see 8 pulses, evenly spaced which may well be why the 2 into 1 works so well. I don't claim to know the reasons but the cheap, ill adapted walker 2 into 1 has been the best system on my 460 so far for all around performance. (I had to modify one pipe due to the stupid car manifold on the passenger side :-)) The balance tube is well known to have a good effect on dual exhaust systems on V-8 applications due to the firing order imbalance for what ever reason. I can only speculate as to how they work like most of the rest of us but the performance gains are not speculation, they have been proven over the years :-) -- Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping, 78 Bronco Loving, Gary -- >See, I guess this is where the rub comes in. I just don't see >how it can >have a measurable effect on a 2K - 4K street engine. ------------------------------ From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" Subject: Re: 460 Exhaust Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 08:17:31 -0500 I've been talking about one type of scavenging effect, sound waves but there is one other obvious effect, that of the moving column of air or "inertia". Once you push it the column begins to move at some velocity and keeps moving until friction and other forces slow it down to a stop if you don't push it again so at low rpms (very low) you could perhaps see colored smoke moving in spasms down the tube but at higher rpms the column would be more or less steady, moving at a speed we could actually measure but it still has pulses each time a valve opens. Along with physical pushing by the piston and cylinder pressure there is a sound that travels down the pipe and sound waves travel differently in closed tubes and open tubes. Once a size for optimum evacuation is determined the length is determined for a given rpm by the speed of sound and number of reflections for each event (one it 2 the other is 4, can't remember which any more :-)). The wave moves away from the valve initially but "bounces" off the open end of the tube and returns to the valve to bounce off the valve and begin moving away again, carrying some air with it. If you can time the bounce on the valve to the point where the valve just begins to open then the pulse from the cylinder will be timed with the sound wave which is now moving away from the valve so you have a stronger pulse pulling the exhaust from the cylinder and thus better scavenging. The mechanical or inertia force is affected by the size of the tubing and the number and kind of bends in it as well as the length and theoretically, again, there is probably an optimum size for each application and at some rpm this may even become important for maximum performance but are we ever really going to get that involved? Not very likely since it also involves a lot of dyno testing to bear out all the ramifications. For most of us it will mean buying the system that sounds good and is least restrictive (larger tubing, larger cat openings etc..) and looks good and I venture to guess that if you also tune your intake to match the improved evacuation you will have as good a system as anyone on the list regardless of what brand or type or configuration you use :-) For our application this is mostly just theory and lab stuff but drag racers, indy car and nascar racers all take this very seriously because one lab HP can win a race. My next 460 exhaust will have 3" pipes because they sound and look cool and will certainly give the engine plenty of room to breath. I may even put 6" tips on them just to irritate all the high school jocky's with their hot mustangs :-) I still think 8 pipes coming out through holes in the rear bumper would be really cool, then put in the spark plugs and fuel lines and put a switch on the floor just where the pedal will hit at WOT and have jet propulsion too :-) -- Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping, 78 Bronco Loving, Gary -- >Yep, Bill, I get all of that. Just what causes this scavenging effect? >Before that, maybe I don't understand scavenging effect. To me ------------------------------ From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" Subject: Re: 428 With a Hole In One Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 09:35:47 -0500 Steve wrote a nice article on this subject and pointed out that his experience was that there was just something not quite right about the way it ran but nothing really obvious he could put his finger on. At idle it might be as innocent as a simple, erratic miss which most carbed vehicles have at idle anyway and at speed it was just a little bit less responsive etc.... Racers melt pistons and blow the tops right out of them due to this so they are very, very carefull to make sure it can't happen. At 7 grand, just one occurance can break almost every part in the engine due to the forces involved in a high performance engine like they use in nascars. -- Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping, 78 Bronco Loving, Gary -- ><< I think it was ignition crossfire. You need to keep 7 and > >Seems to be the thing to be most aware of. I will try using >the seperation >technique so I won't set this up to happen again. ------------------------------ From: "Scott Jensen" Subject: Re: 351 info Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 06:59:08 -0800 I was able to stuff a 351C into a 68 Torino; however, it wasn't a quick and easy job. If I remember right, I ended up raising the motor mounts to the point that the hood would just close over the air cleaner. This put the tranny/driveline at a slight angle, but not enough to cause u-joint problems. BTW, that Torino came stock with a 390...:) Wish it had still been in the car. ------------------------------ From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" Subject: Transmission gear ratios....... Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 11:12:23 -0500 Petersen's 4 wheel and Off Road has a great article in it this month, April, 2000 issue, about trannys, xfer cases etc, and failed to include the Ford C-6 in it's line up of great trannys for some reason but did include it in their list which also includes a side bar with after market ratios available from A-1 and TCI. I won't list them all here but there are 3 ratio sets for the C-6, not just two as I thought if their info is accurate (always a question mark in a magazine) The article starts on page 30 and the list is on page 34 if anyone is interested. The article shows the E4OD as having the 10% better low and 5% lower second and one lower one offered by aftermarket companies at 13% lower low and 5% lower second. Here are the ford ones: C-6, stock: 2.46, 1.46, 1.0 C-6, aftermarket: 2.82, 1.54, 1.0 2.75, 1,57, 1.0 T18: 6.32, 3.09, 1.69, 1.0 T19: 5.11, 3.03, 1.79, 1.00 T98: 6.40, 3.09, 1.69, 1.00 A4OD: 2.40, 1.47, 1.00, 0.67 E4OD: 2.71, 1.53, 1.00, 0.71 NP435: 6.69, 3.34, 1.79, 1.00 Clark 280: 7.00, 4.00, 2.17, 1.00, 0.80 -- Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping, 78 Bronco Loving, Gary -- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 10:39:53 -0500 Subject: Re: 78 VAN SPINDLES From: Jeff Simmons Vans are a front steer ,Trucks are rear steer,I-beams on vans are wider. Jeff KC > > > > ========================================================== > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the > message. > ________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Joe Scott" Subject: steering slop Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 12:06:18 MST Hey, does anyone know where I can get the small U-Joint that goes in the steering rod assembly right after it comes through the firewall. Mine is bad on my 79 F-250, and I can't seem to find where I can get one. Thanks. ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ End of 61-79-list Digest V2000 #28 ********************************** ---------------------------------------------------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1961-1979 Truck Mailing List Send posts to 61-79-list ford-trucks.comIf you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send an email to: listar ford-trucks.comwith the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the message. Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com ---------------------------------------------------------- .... To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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