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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 61-79-list); Thu, 02 Mar 2000 09:22:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 09:22:46 -0500 (EST) From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server To: 61-79-list digest users Reply-to: 61-79-list  ford-trucks.com Subject: 61-79-list Digest V2000 #25 Precedence: bulk ========================================================== Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1961-1979 Truck Mailing List Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the message. ========================================================== ------------------------------------ 61-79-list Digest Wed, 01 Mar 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 025 In This Issue: Re: Valve cover color Hi-Boy steering Floorpans 351 INFO Mufflers Re: List 'O Blocks '81 half ton Dana 44 front hub/spindle - unlurk Re: '81 half ton Dana 44 front hub/spindle - pvc vs pcv Fw: Re: FE???? Re: parting out a 69 and a 64 Re: 351 INFO Re: List 'O Blocks ADMIN: New free service from FTE, web based email!!! Re: '81 half ton Dana 44 front hub/spindle - unlurk 460 Exhaust Re: List 'O Blocks 428 With a Hole In One 360 questions Re: Windshield leaks More info about X35JKBJ2838 Re: 9" rears Re: List 'O Blocks Re: Mufflers Re: 428 With a Hole In One Re: 9" rears Re: 460 Exhaust Re: '81 half ton Dana 44 front hub/spindle - unlurk rear mainseal Re: 9" rears Re: '81 half ton Dana 44 front hub/spindle - unlurk 9"rear Re: parting out a 69 and a 64 Re: 428 With a Hole In One Re: Mufflers Re: Automatic starting? Re: '81 half ton Dana 44 front hub/spindle - Re: Windshield leaks Re: 428 With a Hole In One ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TBeeee aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 21:07:01 EST Subject: Re: Valve cover color In a message dated 3/1/00 6:08:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, ballingr bootheel.net writes: > Yep, I have the paint code. How hard is this supposed to be? It should not be *that* hard. Since you are trying to complete a rebuild and I suspect want to *hear* the progress, I would prep and prime them and double back later. As you know, valve covers can be easily removed and redone anytime. Stock Man 1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd 1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:07:39 -0800 From: scott Subject: Hi-Boy steering >My second question....if the cost or availability to >convert is going to be too difficult, does anyone know of a supplier >for the various seals, gaskets, hard parts to rebuild the existing PS >components (cylinder, control valve, etc.)? I have a 76 Hi-Boy and have been down this road.The parts you want are pretty scarce and very expensive.I got a cylinder seal kit(2 0-rings and some shims) from a friend of a friends friend.Cost me $50.I never was able to find a control valve kit. Everybody i talked to would be happy to rebuild my current cylinder and control valve (for $250-$275 apiece)but would not sell me the parts to do it myself.Don't forget about all those hoses which are also getting scarce.When mine starts leaking again I'm going to convert it and be rid of the old system. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 20:25:48 -0600 Subject: Floorpans From: Brett L Habben Folks, The removable floorpan over the tranny was the norm from the beginning. It made servicing the tranny from the top possible, especially easy on top-cover-shifted manuals. Then the bean counters discovered this wasted effort on automatic equipped trucks that had no removable top cover for servicing. Automatics quit cutting them out and bolting in the separate plate. The T98/T18/NP435 is taller than the floor and requires the plate. The floor has a stamped impression to mark the area that needs to be cut out. I've cut them out before for tranny conversions and it's an easy process. Just get the plate from another truck, drill the bolt holes, cut out the floor, paint the wound, stick in the clipnuts, apply some sealant, bolt her down. Brett Super75cab > Remember you can get a floor with a hole cut in it already from a scrap yard > likely and bolt that in ... at least the 73-79 had the center section that > you could unbolt, I guess I always assumed the 67-72's did too ... anyone > know when they started that ? ________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Eric Washburn" Subject: 351 INFO Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 20:56:08 -0600 OK guys, my sis's boyfriend is gonna be selling me a 351W and a 351C. Where are the codes located at on these things so I can identify the year and such of the engine. Also, what do the numbers that I'm looking for mean? They both run and don't smoke or use oil. I'm gonna try to snag the '74 F150 too =) I was thinking about putting the 351W in the truck and the 351C in our '63 Falcon, aaahh, I'll be smokin them Camaros. Talk about a family car! LOL. The last idea is kinda wild. Let me know guys. I know ya'll can help ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:50:09 -0800 From: scott Subject: Mufflers >Mufflers blow up for one reason, gas buildup and an after fire episode >My bronco did it to me too :-) Recipe for new mufflers. 1 Crank the engine with the distributor in 180 out 2 pump carb cuss and try again. 3 Repeat 4 Pull dist.and install correctly 5 Start engine and have all the unburned gas in mufflers explode. 6 Crawl under truck and look at whats left of my rusty old turbo mufflers The good news is that I replaced the turbos with 3 chamber Flowmasters the 428 sounds awesome now,sends the bowties running for cover:) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 19:00:59 -0800 From: Marv Miller Subject: Re: List 'O Blocks To the following: >> There are 5 basic ford engines that I am aware of: >> Windsor blocks: 302, 351w >> Cleveland blocks: 351c, 400c >> Modified blocks: 351m, 400m >> FE blocks: 332, 352, 360, 390, 427, 428 >> and Big blocks: 370, 429, 460 > >The 406! We're always forgetting the 406. Stu wrote: > The 406 is an FE. Of course it is! But do you see it above in the list of FE's? ------------------------------ From: Brazzadog aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 23:05:40 EST Subject: '81 half ton Dana 44 front hub/spindle - unlurk I know it's a rare thing, but I'm crawling out of my hiding spot. I went to the junkyard today and picked up an '81 half ton 4x4 hub/rotor/bearing/lock-out assembly for an axle swap experiment. Before I went, I checked the exploded diagrams in my various manuals for '73 - '86 and they all indicated that the hub/rotor was two pieces. Now that I have it home and cleaned up, it looks frighteningly as though it is one piece. I was counting on being able to press new rotors on if need be. There is a groove around the hub between the studs and the rotor, is this where they should come apart? Can somebody tell me what max and min thickness should be on the rotor? Other than being rusty, they look ok but I don't know how much more can be taken off safely. It also would help to know how thick new ones would be in the first place. I've only ever had drums turned. Do I take them the whole hub/rotor or just the rotor? I don't have a clue how the turning machines work. Thanks for any advice. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 23:17:44 -0500 From: Tony Marino Subject: Re: '81 half ton Dana 44 front hub/spindle - Hi Ben- First of all-- Yeah, they do come apart. What you have to do is press out the 5 studs, and then bang it a few times with a hammer, and your hub and rotor will come apart. If you need to get the rotors turned (and any autoparts store can mic it for you- don't remember tolerences off-hand) you will need to KEEP THEM TOGETHER in order for them to turn the rotors.. The tool that they use will fit into your hub like a wheelbearing and rotate the rotor on the axis of the hub for trueness. If you do need new rotors, do yourself a favor, and pay the $5 bucks a side to have them press on the new ones to your hubs. I've pressed in my own, but using a bottle jack, the frame rail of the truck, and a deepwell socket only works so well... ;-) Tony Marino At 11:05 PM 3/1/00 -0500, you wrote: >I know it's a rare thing, but I'm crawling out of my hiding spot. > >I went to the junkyard today and picked up an '81 half ton 4x4 >hub/rotor/bearing/lock-out assembly for an axle swap experiment. Before I >went, I checked the exploded diagrams in my various manuals for '73 - '86 and >they all indicated that the hub/rotor was two pieces. Now that I have it >home and cleaned up, it looks frighteningly as though it is one piece. I was >counting on being able to press new rotors on if need be. There is a groove >around the hub between the studs and the rotor, is this where they should >come apart? > >Can somebody tell me what max and min thickness should be on the rotor? >Other than being rusty, they look ok but I don't know how much more can be >taken off safely. It also would help to know how thick new ones would be in >the first place. > >I've only ever had drums turned. Do I take them the whole hub/rotor or just >the rotor? I don't have a clue how the turning machines work. Thanks for >any advice. > >Ben Williams >'71 Wagoneer >'78 F-250 4x4 >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with >the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the >message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 23:53:27 -0500 From: prices Subject: pvc vs pcv Sorry for the confusion, I was referring to the regular pcv valve on the previous post. Must have had plastic on the brain for some reason. Really had you guys spinnin' about that pvc tubing, ehhhh? Thanks for the tips, I will pipe in to the carb base as suggested. FYI, there was a set of 73 truck shop manuals on ebay yesterday. hokiemon in NC ------------------------------ From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" Subject: Fw: Re: FE???? Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 00:01:19 -0500 I mean the top radiator hose on the cleveland goes into the top of the block. -----Original Message----- From: Tim and Pam Allgire To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-list ford-trucks.com> Date: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 1:11 PM Subject: [61-79-list] Re: FE???? >One of the easiest ways to tell is to look at the top radiator hose.The >Windsor hose goes into the front of the intake manifold while the Cleveland >hose goes into the top side of the intake. >-----Original Message----- >From: WEDIVE247 aol.com >To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-list ford-trucks.com> >Date: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 10:58 PM >Subject: [61-79-list] Re: FE???? > > >>Whats the easiest way to tell the differance between a winsor and a >cleveland >>just by looking at them ???? >>========================================================== >>To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with >>the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the >>message. >> > >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with >the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the >message. > ------------------------------ From: "Luke Phillips" Subject: Re: parting out a 69 and a 64 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 23:05:07 CST I am interested in the leaf springs. Are they in good condition? How much do you want for the pair? Thanks... Luke Phillips 67 F100 shortbed 240 I6 (building 460) >From: A61fordtruck aol.com >Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com >To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com >Subject: [61-79-list] parting out a 69 and a 64 >Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 01:19:43 EST > >hey everybody, > >I am parting out a 69 ranger and a 64. both are short stylesides. both >cabs have exelent floors and rusty driprails. neither have engines. the >69 >has a lot of decent trim as well on it and all the ranger emblems. help me >finish my "61 by buying some of this junk from me!!!! > >Greg schnakenberg >61 stepside in process >65 custom cab with 460 swap going on now > >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with >the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the >message. > ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" Subject: Re: 351 INFO Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 00:19:46 -0500 I think you better put the 351 Windsor in the Falcon & put some sub-frame connectors on it.I don't know if the Cleveland will fit in the engine bay of the Falcon without removal or major work to the shock towers. -----Original Message----- From: Eric Washburn To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-list ford-trucks.com> Date: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 9:57 PM Subject: [61-79-list] 351 INFO >OK guys, my sis's boyfriend is gonna be selling me a 351W and a 351C. Where >are the codes located at on these things so I can identify the year and such >of the engine. Also, what do the numbers that I'm looking for mean? They >both run and don't smoke or use oil. I'm gonna try to snag the '74 F150 too >=) I was thinking about putting the 351W in the truck and the 351C in our >'63 Falcon, aaahh, I'll be smokin them Camaros. Talk about a family car! >LOL. The last idea is kinda wild. Let me know guys. I know ya'll can help > > >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with >the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the >message. > ------------------------------ From: canzus seanet.com Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 21:45:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: List 'O Blocks At 03:44 PM 01:03:2000 -0800, Marv Miller wrote: >> There are 5 basic ford engines that I am aware of: >> Windsor blocks: 302, 351w >> Cleveland blocks: 351c, 400c >> Modified blocks: 351m, 400m >> FE blocks: 332, 352, 360, 390, 427, 428 >> and Big blocks: 370, 429, 460 > >The 406! We're always forgetting the 406. And the 410... Steve & the Rockette 68 F100, 390cid, FMX 63 F100, 292cid, 3speed 72 Capri 2000, hers 73 Capri 2600,tube frame going in..... 73 MGB GT, Our Toy 94 SHO, SWMBO's 98 Contour SVT, Mine, Mine, All Mine.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 00:52:14 -0500 From: Ken Payne Subject: ADMIN: New free service from FTE, web based email!!! Ford Truck Enthusiasts is pleased to announce the addition of an all new free feature for our users! FREE WEB BASED EMAIL ---- yourname ford-trucks.net We've registered the ford-trucks.net domain for email address use. An automated sign up page will be added this weekend and the mail service will be activated then. This is a full blown, ***fast*** web based email package, that includes pretty much everything Hotmail, Yahoo mail, etc have and more. It cost us plenty, but I think everyone will enjoy using it and we've always had the policy of offering more to our users as we can afford it. Plus an added benefit, a vanity address perfect for all us Ford truck lovers. AFTE club members will receive as part of their membership an enhanced version of the web mail, which has increased mail quotas and spell checking, plus outgoing email from AFTE members will have their member number appended to list postings! The public sign-up will be this weekend, but now is your chance to grab a desired address, on a first come first serve basis. If you would like to have an address, please send the following to kpayne ford-trucks.com: Name: Current email address: Desired email address ( ford-trucks.net): Desired password: Year and model of Ford trucks you own (we're going to use part of the mail database for a registry!). You'll receive complete usage instructions this weekend. DO NOT SEND THE ABOVE INFORMATION TO THIS LIST!!!! Later, Ken Payne Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 22:07:01 -0800 From: Jason Derra Subject: Re: '81 half ton Dana 44 front hub/spindle - unlurk Knock the wheel studs out and the hub and rotor will separate. Jason Brazzadog aol.com wrote: > I know it's a rare thing, but I'm crawling out of my hiding spot. > > I went to the junkyard today and picked up an '81 half ton 4x4 > hub/rotor/bearing/lock-out assembly for an axle swap experiment. Before I > went, I checked the exploded diagrams in my various manuals for '73 - '86 and > they all indicated that the hub/rotor was two pieces. Now that I have it > home and cleaned up, it looks frighteningly as though it is one piece. I was > counting on being able to press new rotors on if need be. There is a groove > around the hub between the studs and the rotor, is this where they should > come apart? > > Can somebody tell me what max and min thickness should be on the rotor? > Other than being rusty, they look ok but I don't know how much more can be > taken off safely. It also would help to know how thick new ones would be in > the first place. > > I've only ever had drums turned. Do I take them the whole hub/rotor or just > the rotor? I don't have a clue how the turning machines work. Thanks for > any advice. > > Ben Williams > '71 Wagoneer > '78 F-250 4x4 > ========================================================== > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with > the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the > message. ------------------------------ From: "Luke Phillips" Subject: 460 Exhaust Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 00:13:04 CST I am building a 460 for my 67 F100. Should I run a 3" or 2 1/2" exhaust system? How much back pressure do the heads require? I have already purchased 3" Flowmaster mufflers. I've been told just recently that 2 1/2" is the way to go. I need the advice from experts. Thanks in advance. Luke Phillips 67 F100 shortbed 240 I6 (soon to be 460!) ______________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: SevnD2 aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 01:33:44 EST Subject: Re: List 'O Blocks In a message dated 03/02/2000 12:45:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, canzus seanet.com writes: << At 03:44 PM 01:03:2000 -0800, Marv Miller wrote: >> There are 5 basic ford engines that I am aware of: >> Windsor blocks: 302, 351w >> Cleveland blocks: 351c, 400c >> Modified blocks: 351m, 400m >> FE blocks: 332, 352, 360, 390, 427, 428 >> and Big blocks: 370, 429, 460 > >> Where do the 331FT, 361FT and 391FT blocks fall in the list? What does FT stand for? Is it really an FE? Rollie Hunt 1976 F100 Explorer 391FT (428 cubic inches) ------------------------------ From: SevnD2 aol.comDate: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 02:13:07 EST Subject: 428 With a Hole In One My 428 had lost compression in the number eight cylinder a while back. I just parked it until I had the time to get into it. I finally removed the head yesterday and found a small egg shaped hole in the highest edge of it (nearest to the intake). Not a very big hole (smaller than a dime) and there is no damage to the cylinder. I have an idea why it happened, but I want some more experienced opinions on it. Did I have a lean condition or a detonation problem? The timing was set by someone else and I never really checked it. The piston type is unknown to me except that they are standard bore, dished, cast type with four valve reliefs. This engine has less than 20 thousand miles since a rebuild. Does anyone have some info on what type piston I need for a replacement? The engine has the crank rods and pistons for a regular 428. Not cobra jet, super cobra jet or police interceptor. Any help will be appreciated. Rollie Hunt 1976 F100 Explorer, 391FT (428 cu in) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 00:38:56 -0800 Subject: 360 questions From: "Jeff Norville" My M-block and I have unfortunately ignored most posts regarding the 360/390 & FE motors; one just popped up in a friend's garage, apparently a serious build-up for a long-gone (60s) Mustang, and we have no idea what it's worth. We know it's not smog-legal - the huge blower sitting on top gave me my first clue. It does say 360 on the side of the Holley valve covers, but who knows. She said something about the owner using a pair of batteries to turn it over - high compression mods. Was used for racing here in central California. What were the standard build-ups for these? Anybody have a clue what this is worth? I'm not fond of the idea of dropping a drag-raced motor into my Bronco after just putting in the anemic (but smog legal) 400, chopping up the hood, etc., but I am still considering making an offer. I need a few minutes alone with it to read off block numbers.... Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 01:44:06 -0800 From: John Lord Subject: Re: Windshield leaks Silicone is a good stop gap solution but if the time comes when you need to get the window replaced they will make you replace the seal because the silicone cannot be removed from the rubber. I replaced mine when someone smashed my window for me as a christmas gift. I asked to have my seal replaced because it was cracking and i got a deal, i got it at a cost price of $80.00 Can. The butyl compound they use in older vehicles isn't that expensive and a glass shop might sell it to a do it yourself'r. I would recomend spending the money ($50) and getting it done right the first time, and if it still leaks they would probably have another go at it for nothing. Why fix it so you have to spend more money later. John LaGrone wrote: > My windshield used to leak. I used GE clear household silicone in the > squeeze tube to seal between the cab and the gasket and between the two > pieces of the gasket. If you are careful it won't be noticeable. I would try > to seal the gasket itself first. My leaks were in the corners where the > little piece of metal is embedded. I am assuming that vans use the same > style gasket as pickups. Someone now makes a paintable clear sealer that may > be better. At the time I did all of this (about 5 years ago) I didn't care > what it looked like, I was tired of soaking my feet on the way to work. It > still doesn't leak. Henry doesn't know what a garage looks like from the > inside. > > -- John > jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)> 1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) > http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm > Dearborn iron rules!!!! > > ========================================================== > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the > message. ------------------------------ From: "erwin en aly suiker" Subject: More info about X35JKBJ2838 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:42:52 +0100 Thanks for the advice robert. I was hoping that there was someone in the USA that had more info.I have a chilton repair&tune guide here, but i can`t find the numbers in this book.I will right or mail to the Ford company but du you now the Email adres or something.We now the last owner in Thousand Oakes but the only thing he can tell is about another engine he put in the car. Thanks Erwin Suiker Netherlands P.S.==== For so far it`s a F350 XLT LARIAT Ranger.With a 460 engine.And he is running like HELL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 03:46:47 -0500 From: "G.T. Herpich" Subject: Re: 9" rears Solid spacers would require select fitting which would mean much more time and labor setting it up. For drag racing we would assemble the diff with the crush sleeve then disassemble, measure the crushed sleeve and make a solid spacer. Under extreme forces the sleeve can crush further which could explain finding them loose. George "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" wrote: > > After it crushes it leaves a preload that is calculated to hold the nut in > place and keep the bearing under a preload, not sure what they expeced to > accomplish that way over just using solid spacers as some on the list have > suggested. They certainly do not stay tight apparently since I have tighted > quite a few that came loose. They probably locktite them at the factory ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 04:07:08 -0500 From: "G.T. Herpich" Subject: Re: List 'O Blocks FT stands for Ford Truck. > canzus seanet.com writes:> Where do the 331FT, 361FT and 391FT blocks fall in the list? What does FT > stand for? Is it really an FE? ------------------------------ From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" Subject: Re: Mufflers Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 06:32:57 -0500 I hate to break it to you guys but a brand new muffler will split all the way down the side and open up like a desert flower under those conditions, don't ask :-( -- Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping, 78 Bronco Loving, Gary -- >6 Crawl under truck and look at whats left of my rusty old turbo >mufflers ------------------------------ From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" Subject: Re: 428 With a Hole In One Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 07:54:24 -0500 The hole is in the piston right? Detonation or a flawed piston could be the cause. Timing is often a part of the problem but not always the whole problem. It could have the wrong jets in the carb or an air leak in the intake system or a plug with the wrong heat range so that it became a glo plug etc....... -- Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping, 78 Bronco Loving, Gary -- >yesterday and found a small egg shaped hole in the highest edge of it >(nearest to the intake). Not a very big hole (smaller than a >dime) and there >is no damage to the cylinder. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:00:55 -0500 From: James Oxley Subject: Re: 9" rears G.T. Herpich wrote: > > Solid spacers would require select fitting which would mean much more > time and labor setting it up. For drag racing we would assemble the diff > with the crush sleeve then disassemble, measure the crushed sleeve and > make a solid spacer. Under extreme forces the sleeve can crush further > which could explain finding them loose. > > George > > "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" wrote: > > > > After it crushes it leaves a preload that is calculated to hold the nut in > > place and keep the bearing under a preload, not sure what they expeced to > > accomplish that way over just using solid spacers as some on the list have > > suggested. They certainly do not stay tight apparently since I have tighted > > quite a few that came loose. They probably locktite them at the factory How do you know when it crushes enough? Do you check rotational torque after pinion nut torque has dropped off? Does it drop off? I assume it has to after the crush. OX ------------------------------ From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" Subject: Re: 460 Exhaust Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:33:59 -0500 Well, exhaust is a part of the tune but the tuned portion of the exhaust influence only happens at one rpm, very specifically so unless you are attempting to get absolute, lab, max torque at say 1800 rpm for best passing perfomance the size, once large enough to do the job is not too important IMHO. Dragsters with 9-10k rpm operation ranges use 12" pipes with zero back pressure. Trucks that are heavy and move relatively less fast don't need or even want that kind of system. Longer, smaller diameter pipe works better for low rpm, high torque engines and it has nothing to do with "back pressure" in the sense of PSI measurement, it has to do with resonance tuning which uses sound waves to augment the air flow in the pipe and help time the pulses perfectly with the valve openings. This only really works on a stationary engine running at a constant rpm so what we generally want is a free flowing system with enough length to average out the pulses for some median resonance which does not "interfere" with the flow. This leaves us with a fairly wide range of sizes and diameters to play with which is quite evident when you look at what the factorys are putting on the new stuff. Theory is great fun but in this case has little impact on the performance. 2.5 or 3 or 3.5 doesn't matter much as long as it isn't kinked and the cats are not plugged and the mufflers are not restrictive etc.... From my experience and reading, once you get enough room to evacuate the cylinders with little or no back pressure from the flow itself you have all you are going to get unless you want to split hairs as they say which not one of us is in a position to be able to benifit from so don't waste money on fancy, high efficiency, do nothing parts unless you just want the prestige or the look etc... Certain parts do have a proven advantage under certain conditions and in certain applications such as headers and some applications already come with restrictive systems so will certainly gain from these mods but if you don't also tune the intake to compensate for the change in evacuation performance then the engine can actually run worse when you put them on. It all needs to be considered together when you do these things. That being said then, if you want good low end performance and want to maximize this at the sacrifice of top end performance then go with the 2.5" pipe but if you think you would like to be able to rev past 5k rpm in second for that emergency pass then 3" would be better. Since the 460 has gobbs of torque even when it runs poorly your low end will undoubtedly be sufficient in any case. Just make sure that you are prepared to make some changes to the tune including possible jet changes if you go to a really efficient system, especially if you install headers. There will be arguments to this post but I will refrain from attempting to challenge or answer them. We've been all through this discussion many times and we have proven that we have varied "opinions" on the subject. This is my "opinion" :-) -- Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping, 78 Bronco Loving, Gary -- >I am building a 460 for my 67 F100. Should I run a 3" or 2 >1/2" exhaust >system? How much back pressure do the heads require? I have already >purchased 3" Flowmaster mufflers. I've been told just recently >that 2 1/2" >is the way to go. I need the advice from experts. Thanks in advance. ------------------------------ From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" Subject: Re: '81 half ton Dana 44 front hub/spindle - unlurk Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:34:55 -0500 Isn't 81 the year ford did some wierd thing with the hubs? -- Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping, 78 Bronco Loving, Gary -- >I went to the junkyard today and picked up an '81 half ton 4x4 >hub/rotor/bearing/lock-out assembly for an axle swap >experiment. Before I ------------------------------ From: am14 daimlerchrysler.comSubject: rear mainseal Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:34:33 -0500 Dave R.(M block Devotee) writes: >> Older M-blocks that were originally equipped w/ a rope seal had a pin in the middle of the seal groove in the block to keep the rope from rotating w/ the crank. The pin looks just like the sharp end of a little nail.<< Thanks Dave... I've never run into this... I've got 3 of the 335 series blocks(sctually one is my nephews and in a '79 F150 4X4) and none of them have this pin, but it sure is good to know that it is there in some of them.... Murphys law usually keeps me up on these things. Guess I've really been lucky on the 335's I've worked on.. Azie Magnusson Ardmore, Al ------------------------------ From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" Subject: Re: 9" rears Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:50:32 -0500 The only one I have done myself I just put all the old parts back in and tightened the snot out of it and put quite a few miles on it with no trouble so I don't know how important all this stuff really is? Having the right preload on the tapered bearings is the "whole" purpose of this exercise so what ever you have to do to get that done is good enough. Since I didn't use a new sleeve I don't know what it does :-) The Dana 44 doesn't use a sleeve, you measure the clearances and build a shim pack so in that case you just wham that dude down tight and forget it.......if the bearing preload comes out right the first time......good luck :-) I'm not advocating throwing away all torque specs, just saying that when you get up in the 275# range it begins to be somewhat moot, eh? Bottom line is the pinion turns with little drag or bind on it to damage the bearings but is tight enough that when you apply torque it won't get out of alignement and damage the bearings or cause the seal to leak etc... What I believe to be the case here is that the engineers deemed this the simplest way to get them together in the factory with the least fuss and fewest rejections by engineering the sleeve to crush at exactly the right point to leave the bearing with the correct preload within a certain spec, probably a fairly wide spec at the factory. They slap the parts on there and run the nut down with a calibrated impact wrench which breaks at a specified torque and is not hand held but applied by a machine. Beyond that point a tester grabs the yoke and tests the torque on the pinion and any that don't meet the spec are sent to a repair bench where someone loosens or tightens the nut til the spec is achieved. As I said, the factory undoubtedly uses locktite which explains how they stay tight until someone loosens them with a wrench. -- Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping, 78 Bronco Loving, Gary -- > How do you know when it crushes enough? Do you check rotational torque >after pinion nut torque has dropped off? Does it drop off? I assume it >has to after the crush. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:52:45 -0500 From: James Oxley Subject: Re: '81 half ton Dana 44 front hub/spindle - unlurk Peters, Gary (G.R.) wrote: > > Isn't 81 the year ford did some wierd thing with the hubs? > It was 87-88 for the one piece flange slide on hubs on broncos, I'm sure 1/2 tons were the same. OX ------------------------------ From: am14 daimlerchrysler.comSubject: 9"rear Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:03:42 -0500 OX: Maybe it was 170' lbs rather than the 270 I quoted. The preload rotational force was 12" lbs though. We were using a book that we borrowed from a racing friend. Well worn and quite dirty. Used a lot. Don't have a clue as to who published it. My memory really isn't good for more than a couple of minutes. I really don't know the purpose of the crush sleeve. I do know one thing. Nothing about the 9" can be "cast in stone" as to being the same between different vehicles. I had terrible luck this go round, and I've been fooling with the 9"ers for years. I do admit most of my experience has been on cars and not trucks, but I never would have guessed I could be in for the hassel I went through. I did learn quite a bit - now if I can just retain it. Azie Magnusson Ardmore, Al ------------------------------ From: "Moore, Jimmy" Subject: Re: parting out a 69 and a 64 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:10:46 -0600 What's the bed like on the '64? -----Original Message----- From: Luke Phillips [mailto:lukes67ford hotmail.com]Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 11:05 PM To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.comSubject: [61-79-list] Re: parting out a 69 and a 64 I am interested in the leaf springs. Are they in good condition? How much do you want for the pair? Thanks... Luke Phillips 67 F100 shortbed 240 I6 (building 460) >From: A61fordtruck aol.com>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com>To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com>Subject: [61-79-list] parting out a 69 and a 64 >Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 01:19:43 EST > >hey everybody, > >I am parting out a 69 ranger and a 64. both are short stylesides. both >cabs have exelent floors and rusty driprails. neither have engines. the >69 >has a lot of decent trim as well on it and all the ranger emblems. help me >finish my "61 by buying some of this junk from me!!!! > >Greg schnakenberg >61 stepside in process >65 custom cab with 460 swap going on now > >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with>the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the >message. > ______________________________________________________ ========================================================== To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com withthe words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the message. ------------------------------ From: "Hogan, Tom" Subject: Re: 428 With a Hole In One Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 06:15:40 -0800 > > My 428 had lost compression in the number eight cylinder a > while back. I just > parked it until I had the time to get into it. I finally > removed the head > yesterday and found a small egg shaped hole in the highest edge of it > (nearest to the intake). Not a very big hole (smaller than a > dime) and there > is no damage to the cylinder. > > I have an idea why it happened, but I want some more > experienced opinions on > it. I'm not clear on the location of the hole. Was it in the head or piston. My first guess would be a pre-ignition condidtion condition caused by cross-fire induced from the firing of the number 7 cyclinder. Cylinder 7 and 8 are next to each other on the bank (physically) and in the firing order. If the plug wires are routed parallel to each other then 8 will be induced to fire when 7 does. This is obviously too early for 8. I have read of this causing damage and the service manual has a note about this condition. Tom H ------------------------------ From: "Hogan, Tom" Subject: Re: Mufflers Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 06:15:43 -0800 I had an old bu! K that I could force an after fire out of by turning offthe switch right after a hard acceleration and while the car was still rolling then turn the switch back on. Sounded like a cannon. Ballooned the muffler pretty bad though. For some reason I've never seen or had a Ford Truck that would do this. Tom H. > > I hate to break it to you guys but a brand new muffler will > split all the > way down the side and open up like a desert flower under > those conditions, > don't ask :-( > > -- > Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping, > 78 Bronco Loving, Gary > -- > > >6 Crawl under truck and look at whats left of my rusty old > turbo > >mufflers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:11:16 -0600 From: "Kelley McDaniel" Subject: Re: Automatic starting? > When I got back in the truck I > turrned the key to the on position (I have an electric fuel pump, always > let that run for 1-2 seconds before i hit the starter), and the truck > started just as soon as i put it on on, not start, the starter never > engaged, the motor just started by itself. My ex father-in-law used to get a kick out of starting his 1919 Model T center door coupe this way. He would move one of the pistons to just past TDC, adjust the spark advance (on the column) and turn on the spark. He was pretty good at starting it this way, especially if the engine was warm. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:06:34 -0600 Subject: Re: '81 half ton Dana 44 front hub/spindle - From: "John LaGrone" > If you need to get the rotors turned (and any autoparts store can mic it > for you- don't remember tolerences off-hand) you will need to KEEP THEM > TOGETHER in order for them to turn the rotors.. The tool that they use will > fit into your hub like a wheelbearing and rotate the rotor on the axis of > the hub for trueness. Ben and Tony, You should be able to get your rotors turned either with or without the hubs. A lot of front drive cars have rotors held on only by the lug nuts. Brake shops turn them with no hub all of the time. -- John jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm Dearborn iron rules!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:19:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Windshield leaks From: "John LaGrone" > Why fix it so you have to spend more money later. John, You are of course correct. Depending on the situation, $3 for a tube of sealer looks better than $180 to $250 for a new windshield and seal. On my truck, my mother had the windshield replaced but not the seal. What can I say, she's my mother. The truck looked horrid at the time. I was just tired of water in the cab and it wasn't my truck yet. I now have a star crack on my windshield that has had the cyanoacrylate treatment to prevent further spread. Being in the hot Texas sun, it will eventually break the rest of the way. The next time I get the windshield replaced I will get a new seal also. -- John jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm Dearborn iron rules!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:21:32 -0600 Subject: Re: 428 With a Hole In One From: "John LaGrone" > The hole is in the piston right? Detonation or a flawed piston could be the > cause. Timing is often a part of the problem but not always the whole > problem. It could have the wrong jets in the carb or an air leak in the > intake system or a plug with the wrong heat range so that it became a glo > plug etc....... And you can get a piece of carbon to flake of, sit in one place and melt through.....guess how I know. -- John jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry) http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm Dearborn iron rules!!!! ------------------------------ End of 61-79-list Digest V2000 #25 ********************************** ---------------------------------------------------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1961-1979 Truck Mailing List Send posts to 61-79-list ford-trucks.comIf you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send an email to: listar ford-trucks.comwith the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the message. Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com ---------------------------------------------------------- .... To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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