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61-79-list Digest Mon, 03 Jul 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 146

In This Issue:
How does a crossover or H pipe affect exhaust sound?
'65 windows/regulators, etc. easy to find?
Re: How does a crossover or H pipe affect exhaust sound?
Re: '65 windows/regulators, etc. easy to find?
Re: How does a crossover or H pipe affect exhaust sound?
#$&! Power steering...
Re: #$&! Power steering...
FE emissions heads
Re: #$&! Power steering...
Starter Fix by Welding
I'm leaky
Compression test quest
Re: #$&! Power steering...SUCCESS!
Re: 352 Blown Gasket
ADMIN: Web site updates
I need some more power from my 390
Oil Pan Source and R&R

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Garrett Nelson" writeme.com>
Subject: How does a crossover or H pipe affect exhaust sound?
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 00:16:37 -0500


I know they increase power a little, but would installing one in my 66 make the 390 sound better or worse? Or don't they make much difference?

Thanks

---Garrett www.1966ford.com






------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 01:21:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Hall garnet.acns.fsu.edu>
Subject: '65 windows/regulators, etc. easy to find?

how do,

I found a '65 f100 custom cab for sale locally, beat up bad. among it's
problems are a lack of side windows, and I'll bet the reguators are shot,
too. how easy are these to find?

and while I'm asking, how easy are any of the parts for these to find?
I've got a '68 mustang...is parts availability similar w.r.t. restoration?
I'll need a *lot* of parts to get this thing well again, most of the body
needs some kind of work, and the interior is almost completely gone. is
this do-able without long hours at swap meets?

thanks

scott



------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" alltel.net>
Subject: Re: How does a crossover or H pipe affect exhaust sound?
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 03:03:09 -0700



I know they increase power a little, but would installing one in my 66
make the 390 sound better or worse? Or don't they make much difference?
Thanks
Garrett www.1966ford.com
=========================================
i dont have one in my 62 t bird exhaust and its got a 290 x 480 cam in it
and it sounds just fine i think At Least you can tell which side is missing
if youve got a miss in it or if one side is burning oil or not
gordon

------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" alltel.net>
Subject: Re: '65 windows/regulators, etc. easy to find?
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 03:14:44 -0700



I found a '65 f100 custom cab for sale locally, beat up bad. among it's
> problems are a lack of side windows, and I'll bet the reguators are shot,
> too. how easy are these to find?
and while I'm asking, how easy are any of the parts for these to find?
> I've got a '68 mustang...is parts availability similar w.r.t.
restoration?
> I'll need a *lot* of parts to get this thing well again, most of the body
> needs some kind of work, and the interior is almost completely gone. is
> this do-able without long hours at swap meets?
> scott
========================================
Scott
well begin by getting yourself a few catalogs first Macs truck parts and
Mill Supply AND LMC would be good ones Macs also has auto parts as well as
mill supply does another is Detroit Classics for your Stang with these you
shouldnt need to spend too much time at swap meets really another place to
check for some decent deals at times is E Bay here on the web also i saw
quite a few truck and Stang parts there just yesterday
gordon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 03:32:25 -0700
From: John Lord home.com>
Subject: Re: How does a crossover or H pipe affect exhaust sound?

An H-pipe will make your exhaust system quieter especially at low rpm..... Ever notice you cant hear a police car as it sneaks down the street
with its lights off, That's is what the use as one of there tricks. It is for performance though. The theory is that the vacuum created on one
side will cause a scavenging effect on the other.

On a big block dodge once had, i blew out the exhaust, i replaced them with glass packs and was told it still too loud, i was amazed to find how
much quieter an h pipe made it, good enough to keep my neighbors happy.

Garrett Nelson wrote:

> I know they increase power a little, but would installing one in my 66 make the 390 sound better or worse? Or don't they make much difference?
>
> Thanks
>
> ---Garrett www.1966ford.com
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe:
> http://www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3
> Please remove this footer when replying.


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 13:26:54 -0400
From: David Wadson air.on.ca>
Subject: #$&! Power steering...

In the ongoing saga of getting this 4x4 safetied, I've gotten past the
brakes, rear main oil seal, electrical and finally tackled the leaking
power steering. I wimped out and let the Ford dealership rebuild the power
steering gear and replace all the seals in it. I slapped that back in the
truck and replaced the power steering pump with another (presumably
working) pump. With the truck up on jackstands, I poured in the fluid and
did the back and forth with the steering to bleed the air out of the lines.
The truck seems to turn just fine with the front end off the ground - no
binding and moves easily. However, as soon as I drop the front end back on
the ground and try to drive this thing, it feels like I have seized
kingpins....and a 4x4 doesn't have them! I don't seem to be getting any
kind of power assist and I have to strong arm the truck to turn it. Some
facts...

1. The truck turned easily before I removed any of the pieces;
2. Being freshly rebuilt, by the dealer, not myself, I'm tending to rule
out something wrong with the gearbox;
3. I tried another pump...it too doesn't help. What are the odds of having
two defective pumps (no whining, grinding, screaming of worn bearings...)
4. Is it possible that I put my steering wheel back on too tight? Would
that actually cause this as the shop manual says it might?
5. Is there any unwritten techniques for bleeding the air out of the
system? Could I just have a big air pocket in there somewhere?

Hopefully there are some power steering veterans who can help me out...I'd
really like to get this truck safetied on Wednesday and this is kind of
kicking that deadline in the teeth...


David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
"PS1" - 79 F100 ...ground into a million pieces.
"PS2" - 78 F100 ...currently alive and kicking.
"PS3" - 79 F150 4x4 ...now what have I gotten myself into...
Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 13:33:56 -0400
From: James Oxley thecore.com>
Subject: Re: #$&! Power steering...



David Wadson wrote:
>
> In the ongoing saga of getting this 4x4 safetied, I've gotten past the
> brakes, rear main oil seal, electrical and finally tackled the leaking
> power steering. I wimped out and let the Ford dealership rebuild the power
> steering gear and replace all the seals in it. I slapped that back in the
> truck and replaced the power steering pump with another (presumably
> working) pump. With the truck up on jackstands, I poured in the fluid and
> did the back and forth with the steering to bleed the air out of the lines.
> The truck seems to turn just fine with the front end off the ground - no
> binding and moves easily. However, as soon as I drop the front end back on
> the ground and try to drive this thing, it feels like I have seized
> kingpins....and a 4x4 doesn't have them! I don't seem to be getting any
> kind of power assist and I have to strong arm the truck to turn it. Some
> facts...
>
> 1. The truck turned easily before I removed any of the pieces;
> 2. Being freshly rebuilt, by the dealer, not myself, I'm tending to rule
> out something wrong with the gearbox;
> 3. I tried another pump...it too doesn't help. What are the odds of having
> two defective pumps (no whining, grinding, screaming of worn bearings...)
> 4. Is it possible that I put my steering wheel back on too tight? Would
> that actually cause this as the shop manual says it might?
> 5. Is there any unwritten techniques for bleeding the air out of the
> system? Could I just have a big air pocket in there somewhere?
>
> Hopefully there are some power steering veterans who can help me out...I'd
> really like to get this truck safetied on Wednesday and this is kind of
> kicking that deadline in the teeth...
>

I have had this happen many times. Sounds like you have air. Question,
does any power steering fluid piss out when you shut off the truck? if
so, then you still have air in it. It is difficult to fill gearbox and
reservior without getting air in it. Once the fluid foames up, you have
to let it run (no steering) with PS cap off (leaving cap on will trap
air, it'll never bleed right :-)) for while to get the air out of fluid.
Then you can get weight off wheels and try bleeding again. Make sure you
use real PS fluid, not trany fluid. The PS fluid (clear) foames much
less.

OX

PS, rebuilding PS boxes seems to be a black art, it's possible even
dealer messed it up.

------------------------------

From: "Azie L. Magnusson" HiWAAY.net>
Subject: FE emissions heads
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 12:46:21 -0500


Ted writes: >>I wonder if the emission head has the same CC?<<

If I'm not seriously mistaken, FOMOCO changed the wristpin heighth in the piston in '72 to cause the piston not to come up as far
in the cylinder - thus lower compression.. I believe the head CC is basically unchanged thru its life span for the normal street FE's.
Also not much difference in valve sizes unless you get into CJ's and 427's.

Azie Magnusson
Ardmore, Al.


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:39:33 -0400
From: David Wadson air.on.ca>
Subject: Re: #$&! Power steering...

> I have had this happen many times. Sounds like you have air. Question,
>does any power steering fluid piss out when you shut off the truck? if
>so, then you still have air in it. It is difficult to fill gearbox and
>reservior without getting air in it. Once the fluid foames up, you have
>to let it run (no steering) with PS cap off (leaving cap on will trap
>air, it'll never bleed right :-)) for while to get the air out of fluid.
>Then you can get weight off wheels and try bleeding again. Make sure you
>use real PS fluid, not trany fluid. The PS fluid (clear) foames much
>less.
>
> OX
>
>PS, rebuilding PS boxes seems to be a black art, it's possible even
>dealer messed it up.

This is exactly what I meant...the shop manual makes it sound so simple but
someone always has a few extra tips that the books leave out! I can hear
air hissing in the pump when I shut the truck off and the fluid level is
pushed up the spout. I had wondered myself about how the air would get out
with the cap on. I guess I can leave it up on jackstands while I run it to
get the air out...save me having to jack it up and down constantly. I'll
just have to put a fair bit of work into getting the air out.

Yes, even with the Ford shop manual it seemed like enough of a black art
that I felt it was better the dealer did it. 4x4 steering boxes are just
too rare up here to be messing around with it myself. I'll lose my gearbox
virginity with a 2WD gearbox...I need to replace the leaky one in my
current truck anyways. Plus, I have a 1 year warranty on the dealer's work
if it does turn out to be the gearbox...


David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
"PS1" - 79 F100 ...ground into a million pieces.
"PS2" - 78 F100 ...currently alive and kicking.
"PS3" - 79 F150 4x4 ...now what have I gotten myself into...
Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada



------------------------------

From: "Carver" ncwebsurfer.com>
Subject: Starter Fix by Welding
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 15:00:43 -0700

I remember a 'fix' for a starter that involved welding
the arm, I believe, that cures chronic hanging up.

Of, course, I have lost the information and/or the website,
otherwise I wouldn't be asking, duh.

If someone could pmail me the information, or website, I
would be very grateful. My truck is in the shop with,
guess what, a starter problem, and I want to get it fixed.

I'm on digest.

Jeff '64 F100 CrewCab

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 20:13:04 -0400
From: "Don Haring, Jr." fedora.net>
Subject: I'm leaky

Here's one for the records ... while replacing spark plugs today on my
leaky inline 240 engine, I discovered the source of a formerly mysterious
oil leak. I noticed that the bottom pan of the oil bath air cleaner housing
was loose. Apparently the thumbscrew on the bottom fell off some time ago,
and the filter pan slowly lost most of its oil, covering the engine in oil.
I had just assumed the whole engine was possessed and dying but it turns
out that there really was a logical source to the problem. I feel smart for
discovering the problem, and dumb for not finding it sooner. But overall, I
thought it was a funny problem that I would have never looked for if I
hadn't been doing something else in the same vicinity.

-don

--
Don in Philadelphia #8142, Editor/Internet Director, Keystone Chapter FCA
66 Falcon Deluxe Club Wagon (daily driver)
61 Falcon Futura | Vespa and Lambretta scooters



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 20:29:11 -0400
From: "Don Haring, Jr." fedora.net>
Subject: Compression test quest

I don't want to start an "anti chain auto store" thread, but I thought you
might enjoy my short story of my quest to buy a compression tester gauge
today. My 240 is running weak so I want to do a test soon.

Because I didn't get away from work early enough, I had to go to some chain
stores instead of my usual local shops. At Auto Zone, the first clerk asked
her boss if they carried "engine compressors". I'd like to see that tool!
They were all out.

At Strauss Auto, I asked if they sold compression testers. Nope, and the
clerk was very sure of it. "Are you sure?," I asked. "Positive, but our
shop can do it." No thanks, I want to do it myself. Out of curiousity, I
wandered the store and found the tool cabinet (I wasn't familiar with the
store beforehand, and it was a mess from remodeling). Guess what I found on
the shelf. No, not an engine compressor, but I did find a compression
tester.

I asked her if she could get something from the locked cabinet for me. When
she came over, I pointed to the gauge. She didn't say anything, but I said,
"I think that's what I need." No comment. :)

-don

--
Don in Philadelphia #8142, Editor/Internet Director, Keystone Chapter FCA
66 Falcon Deluxe Club Wagon (daily driver)
61 Falcon Futura | Vespa and Lambretta scooters



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 21:20:27 -0400
From: David Wadson air.on.ca>
Subject: Re: #$&! Power steering...SUCCESS!

James Oxley was right on the money...it was simply a matter of getting all
that air bled out of the system. To summarize the technique that ended up
working for me...

1. Jack of the front of the truck. I want bigger biceps but I'll stick to
lifting weights rather than trying to turn that wheel!

2. Start the engine and with the power steering pump capped, turn the wheel
from stop to stop 3, 4, 5, 6...however many turns you feel like.

3. Center the steering, pop the cap off the power steering pump and let the
engine run for a bit. Add a bit of fluid if the level was way down into the
pump so that I could see the impeller and hear the fluid sloshing with air.

4. Shut off the engine and watch the fluid rise up. If it's got a thick
rich head on top like a mug of Guiness, turn the steering from stop to stop
a few times. Don't let the fluid push up and right out of the pump unless
you want a mess...just enough to let the bigger air bubbles come out.

5. Repeat steps 2 through 4 until the fluid has no head like a flat glass
of Coke.

6. Cap the pump, drop the truck to the ground and enjoy your functioning
power steering again!

7. OPTIONAL - Reintegrate some air into the system to remove some of the
slop from your steering . :-) I'm only half joking...I'm seriously
wondering if I could make the steering feel a bit "tighter" if I got some
air back in there. :-)

Now I just need to replace the exhaust turn out, get the rusted out bed
secured to the frame, replace the windshield and I'm almost ready to get it
safetied!

Thanks for the tips!


David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
"PS1" - 79 F100 ...ground into a million pieces.
"PS2" - 78 F100 ...currently alive and kicking.
"PS3" - 79 F150 4x4 ...now what have I gotten myself into...
Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 19:52:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: "J. Allison" yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 352 Blown Gasket

> From: Bill Templeton smnet.net>
> Subject: 352 Blown Manifold Gasket
-snip-
... This will allow access to manifold bolts with the
head/exhaust manifold assembly on bench. I can then
soak oil around the bolts at the head and heat head
around bolts as needed. Also, I plan to use a 36" belt
sander to surface the exhaust manifold as needed....

> unless you're a machinist and have access to that
>type of tools i would not even try this myself...
-snip-

I'm gonna have to agree with Gordon here for the
most part. The 'belt sander' method could work out IF
the person wielding it took EXTREME care and checked
his/her work constantly during the truing process with
a good straight edge. The problem with this is that
most people don't have enough patience or anality to
do the job in a fashion that will provide acceptable
results over the long term. The thing to remember here
is that the mating surfaces are supposed to be
perfectly true and flat all the way across the entire
width of the head and the x manifold or header. What
some folks have called "perfect" I have cringed at.
I'm not saying it can't be done (because I know full
well it can!) but am saying that for the majority it
isn't worth it. Just have it done by someone with a
mill at a machine shop. You'll most likely be time and
money ahead...

> its always CHEAPER to let them do it from start to
> finish...

Not always Gordon! Necessity is the mother of
invention

>not only does the head need to be surfaced but the
>manifold does to or it will blow even more gaskets...

High possibility of blown gaskets!

>you will also need the steel gasket that goes to it
>also the studs are just standard studs really about
>any parts store should have them be sure to use brass
>nuts when re-assembling the exhaust pipes it makes it
>easier to the next time to take them off-Gordon

Don't forget your ultra high-temp anti-seize to keep
things from freezing up. The next sap down the line
will surely thank you. And that next sap may be you!!!

The idea of taking off the head with a manifold still
attached is a good one Bill. If you can actually
squeeze it out while they are connected (I can't
remember the FE stuff very well as I haven't owned one
for quite some time) Take it easy with the heat, you
don't want to warp the head! Yes you can warp the head
contrary to what some knuckleheads will tell you. Add
heat and you can get movement due to residual stresses
being relieved through the heating/cooling process in
almost any ferrous metal. Sometimes it takes precision
measuring tools to see the difference. Sometimes it
just takes the naked eye... J. Allison

Ps Here's a tip for the exhaust manifold. Clean it
thoroughly and bake it in the oven at 500 degrees for
about 4-6 hours. Then true it with 80-240 emory cloth
on a flat plate. What I mean is to place the plate
down, put the cloth on the plate, and then rub the
manifold on the emory cloth. Just use a small amount
of EVEN pressure with a reasonable stroke speed. Keep
it firmly planted onto the table and you'll be in
business. This method will be better than a belt
sander if the manifold is only out by maybe .020 max
across the length. Otherwise machine it. The real
trouble will be in finding a flat plate and a long
enough chunk of emory cloth...


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://invites.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 23:34:58 -0400
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: ADMIN: Web site updates

The Picture Gallery on the web site has been updated. I tried
to knock out a bunch of pictures and I'm caught up through
May 10th submissions. I still have 50+ pictures to finish
getting caught up.

There's a really nice selection of trucks this time, some
unusual trucks and virtually every truck group is covered!

Trucks added:
1955 F600 Firetruck
1960 F250 Crewcab
1965 Econoline
1965 Firetruck
1969 F250
1974 F250 4x4
1977 Ranchero 500
1978 F150
1982 F250 Custom 4x4
1983 F150 XLS
1985 F150
1990 F150 Lariat
1996 F350
1997 Ranger SuperCab 4x4
1999 F150 XLT 4x4
1999 F150 Extended Cab
2000 F350 SuperDuty 4x4 Crewcab

Links to these can be found on the main page of the
site: www.ford-trucks.com

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts



------------------------------

From: "Garrett Nelson" writeme.com>
Subject: I need some more power from my 390
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 23:32:47 -0500


Well all my friends think I'm nuts when I say that since I can already light up the tires (275's) shifting into third gear, but I want more power!

Check out what I have done so far at www.1966ford.com

I am planning on putting on headers next. Who makes good ones for a 390?

I see Edelbrock makes some spiffy aluminum heads for $1200 a pair... how much power would they get me? Would they increase compression much?



---Garrett


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 23:07:16 -0700
From: Tim Bowman uswest.net>
Subject: Oil Pan Source and R&R

Does anyone in the Seattle area have an oil pan for a 360 to fit a '68
F100 2 wheel drive pickup? My son-in-law stripped the backing plate and
it is now loose inside the pan. So we now have a project.

Also, does anyone have any tips for removal and replacement of the pan
without pulling the motor? I believe that I can loosen the motor
mounts, raise the engine and then drop the pan.

Thanks in advance for any help.



--
Tim Bowman
Burien, WA
tkbowman ....


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