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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 61-79-list); Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:30:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server To: 61-79-list digest users Reply-to: 61-79-list  ford-trucks.com Subject: 61-79-list Digest V2000 #139 Precedence: bulk ========================================================== Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1961-1979 Truck Mailing List Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the message. ========================================================== <><><><> Win $50,000, Sony TV's and Sony Radios! <><><><> Simply sign up for RacingOne.com's free e-mail newsletter. Our newsletter provides you with breaking auto-racing news. For each person who signs up for the free newsletter, we will make a donation to Speedway Children's Charities. You get the inside story on breaking auto-racing news and children get a better future. http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://opt-influence.com/a/racing3/ ------------------------------------ 61-79-list Digest Sun, 25 Jun 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 139 In This Issue: oil pan 302 Re: 67 fire truck Re: 300 stuff Sick 390 Part 2 Cross member (found) Re: 351W vs 460 Re: Sick 390 Part 2 Re: Sick 390 Part 2 428 427 Re: Sick 390 Part 2 Tranny rebuild Re: Sick 390 Part 2 C6 rebuild 76 SC truck for sale Ontario Canada Re: [61-79-list]DECISION,DECISIONS Re: 428 Re: [61-79-list]DECISION,DECISIONS ADMIN: How have they been? Re: Sick 390 Part 2 Re: ADMIN: How have they been? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "davidl" Subject: oil pan 302 Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:51:10 -0500 Any one have a rear sump oil pan and pick up for a 302 they would like to part with? Need one to do motor swap. Dave west of chicago ------------------------------ From: TBeeee aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 23:53:46 EDT Subject: Re: 67 fire truck I picked this truck up earlier this year. Low miles, virtually no rust, and best yet, my favorite year! I'm glad you like it too. Stock Man http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://hometown.aol.com/tbeeee > > when did you pick up the fire truck?? i'm green with envy! ------------------------------ From: "Eric Washburn" Subject: Re: 300 stuff Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 00:10:47 -0500 Cool, thanks everyone, ya'll are some great people, I'd be lost if I wasn't on this list =) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:43:28 -0700 From: Keith Srb Subject: Sick 390 Part 2 Hi gang. 74 F-250 390FE with a C-6. You may remember that I posted a message to the list about my sick 390. If you don't, here's a short description of the problem. I was on the freeway driving to work, running 65-70. Exited freeway and stopped at stoplight to make a left hand turn. Engine was running rough, seemed like it was missing. Light turns green, hit the gas. Truck is only running on 7 cylinders and has is down on power and vibrating like it is missing. Finished the two mile trek to work. Checked on Truck at noon, didn't see anything oblivious wrong and still missed. Had it towed home. Well I have been chasing this problem for a while. Stated with all of the small stuff with no results. Moved on to removing one plug wire at a time from distributor. Found the dead cylinder and also notice a change in sound from the engine when I took off the wire for the number 5 cylinder. Replaced the wire, no change in the way the engine ran but I heard a snapping sound coming from the engine. Pulled the wire and put it back a few time to verify the sound. It was a snapping sound, almost like part of the insulation had worn off the wire and the spark was jumping to the engine before it reached the plug. Checked the wire, it's fine. By now it is dark, better time to work on a vehicle in the hot desert. Put the wire back and start the truck and check to see if anything jumps out at me in the dark. Well something did jump out at me. I now know that I need a new exhaust manifold gasket because I could see the spark from the spark plug in between the head the exhaust manifold. I couldn't belive my eyes, so I had a friend of mine come over and take a look. He agreed with me, you can see the spark from the spark plug flashing between the head and the exhaust manifold. I haven't done a compression check on this cylinder yet. I am afraid to since I figure it won't have any compression due to the exhaust valve being stuck open. I already had a bad weekend after something in the brakes broke on my 66 and I about plowed into a car at the same freeway exit Friday morning. I managed to avoid the back end of this car, but the bumper did bounce off the front tire of a fellows truck. Neither truck sustained any body damage, I may just have to pay for a front end alignment for this gentlemen. I have to call him tomorrow. Luckily he was pretty cool about the whole thing. Me on the other hand, I had to have the truck towed home since I didn't have brakes anymore. I thought I was going to loose my baby for a while. The pucker marks stayed in the seat for a while. I am beginning to think I should find an alternate route to work. Sorry for rambling. Could there be anything else that would allow me to see the spark flash from the cylinder? Later Keith Srb ------------------------------ From: "Matt Schu" Subject: Cross member (found) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:38:54 AKDT List, Thanks for all your help with the search for the cross member. I finally located one in some guys collection of wrecked cars in Sterling, Alaska. Along with the cross member, I ended up getting a radiator in good shape, a complete 360 block, a c6, a np203 w/part-time kit, and a set of warn hubs all for $150. Again, thanks for the help, people like you are one of the best reasons to own a old ford! schu ________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:10:08 -0500 From: "Don Yerhot" Subject: Re: 351W vs 460 Burt, Very good choice. You'll be very happy with the 351W. Maybe a little less cam though. A 260 with stock lifters would probably work a little better for you, especially if you're running 3:00 to 3;50 rear gears. My 65-F250 with a 2barrel, mild cam, stock compression, Dana60 running 4:10, will pull anything and still gets between 14-17mpg. And with 31" tires it's turning around 3000 at 65. Good Luck! DonY 65 F250 351W 74 F100 351W to cam up the 351W. Intend to use an Edelbrock 600 cfm carb and performer intake, a Comp Cam 270 with the Crane lifters that run quietly collapsed until the RPM gets up a ways, and a set of hooker headers. The carb and intake are already on the engine. It will be torn down cleaned up, and hopefully the pistons and cylinders can be rerung, if not then it will be a complete rebuild. Any comments on cam choice? Trying to occasionally pull camping trailer on highway hills. Thanks again. Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460> ------------------------------ From: JUMPINFORD aol.comDate: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:14:44 EDT Subject: Re: Sick 390 Part 2 In a message dated 6/25/00 10:39:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, herbie ford-trucks.com writes:<< I could see the spark from the spark plug in between the head the exhaust manifold. I couldn't believe my eyes, so I had a friend of mine come over and take a look. He agreed with me, you can see the spark from the spark plug flashing between the head and the exhaust manifold. >> Actually that would be the fuel charge still burning on its way out. Its a common misconception that all fuel is burned entirely in the cylinder. Id do that compression test. And if you come up with a Zero, pull the valve cover over that cyl. That will let you see a stuck valve, or possibly a broken push rod. Either of which can produce a cyl with no compression. Id lean towards the stuck valve, especially if its high mileage. Darrell & Tweety ------------------------------ From: "wish" Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:49:50 GMT Subject: Re: Sick 390 Part 2 >Well I have been chasing this problem for a while. Stated with all of the small stuff with no results. Moved on to removing one plug wire at a time from distributor. Found the dead cylinder and also notice a change in sound from the engine when I took off the wire for the number 5 cylinder. Replaced the wire, no change in the way the engine ran but I heard a snapping sound coming from the engine. Pulled the wire and put it back a few time to verify the sound. It was a snapping sound, almost like part > >Well something did jump out at me. I now know that I need a new exhaust manifold gasket because I could see the spark from the spark plug in between the head the exhaust manifold. I couldn't belive my eyes, so I had a friend of mine come over and take a look. He agreed with me, you can see the spark from the spark plug flashing between the head and the exhaust manifold. > >Could there be anything else that would allow me to see the spark flash from the cylinder? > Really bad timing would cause it to fire at the wrong time. You might also try starting it at night to see what the plugs and wires look like ... had a friend who couldn't figure out why his truck ran so bad, he started it up at night one time (workin on it late) and he could SEE the sparks going around the insulators ... hasn't used Champion since then. Are you also saying you have an exhaust valve stuck open ? That would indicate a bent valve, or bad valvespring wouldn't it ? Could be worse too ... have you pulled the plug to look at it yet ? Also if you have a tick when the plug is connected but not when its pulled, it could just be your burned out exhaust gasket as a small hole with lots of air forced through it will sound like a tick. It could also theoretically ignite right there because of the fresh oxygenated air that might come in the hole and the hot gasses escaping causing what looks like a spark plug firing... Just some thoughts ... Just my $.02 wish 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish Ford Truck Enthusiasts http://www.ford-trucks.com ------------------------------ From: "Azie L. Magnusson" Subject: 428 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:36:49 -0500 Greg writes: >>If you put the 428 crank in a 390, you'll have 410, which is what Mercury did. If you bore the 390 to the 428 bore and put in the 428 crank then you will have the almighty 428 cubic inches.<< Yes, but the key here is that most 360's and 390's(4.050") wont bore that far(4.13") and still be safe. Occasionally they will but not often. The ones that do bore that far are really thin. There once was a book out that gave the block most likely to bore that far, but I can't remember who published it or how long ago it was published. Been there - done that. More than once..Bored my share into the water jackets. Azie Magnusson Ardmore, Al. ------------------------------ From: "Azie L. Magnusson" Subject: 427 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:38:43 -0500 Paul writes: >>They list an FE stroker kit for a 427cid motor that is 4.23 Bore and 3.78 Stroke. Would this be the 428 everyone is discussing???<< No that is a 427. The 428 carries a 4.13 bore and a 3.98 stroke The 427 carries a 4.23 bore and a 3.78 stroke. They are balanced differently. Azie Magnusson Ardmore, Al. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:51:01 -0700 From: Keith Srb Subject: Re: Sick 390 Part 2 At 11:14 AM 06/26/2000 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 6/25/00 10:39:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >herbie ford-trucks.com writes:> ><< I could see the spark from the spark plug in between the head the exhaust >manifold. I couldn't believe my eyes, so I had a friend of mine come over >and take a look. He agreed with me, you can see the spark from the spark >plug flashing between the head and the exhaust manifold. >> > >Actually that would be the fuel charge still burning on its way out. Its a >common misconception that all fuel is burned entirely in the cylinder. Id do >that compression test. And if you come up with a Zero, pull the valve cover >over that cyl. That will let you see a stuck valve, or possibly a broken >push rod. Either of which can produce a cyl with no compression. Id lean >towards the stuck valve, especially if its high mileage. Wouldn't the fuel charge burn be a different color than bright blue? The "light" that I saw was a bright blue, similar to the "light" emitted from a spark plug when it sparks. Wouldn't some of the "fire" from the burning fuel charge exit between the head and exhaust manifold where the gasket has been blow out?? The truck is low mileage, 90,000. The engine was rebuilt at 30,000 by the Dealership that the previous owner bought the truck from. The oil pump went out. I know that one of the heads was replaced then, but the PO couldn't remember what else was replaced. I am wondering if this problem isn't a result of that rebuild/oil pump failure? I got to work on the brakes on my 66 tonight. Will check compression on this cylinder later and keep you posted. Thanks Keith Srb ------------------------------ From: "Azie L. Magnusson" Subject: Tranny rebuild Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:57:39 -0500 Steve writes: >> If it's the tranny I'm thinking about, after you've got the input and counter shafts out stand it up on the input end, get the retaining ring on the output shaft off, and using a brass drift, beat the shaft out of the bearing. reassembly is the reverse...best to have a very stout work bench...<< Really Hi-Tech stuff, huh??? Azie Magnusson Ardmore, Al. ------------------------------ From: JUMPINFORD aol.comDate: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:46:40 EDT Subject: Re: Sick 390 Part 2 In a message dated 6/26/00 10:51:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, herbie ford-trucks.com writes:<< Wouldn't the fuel charge burn be a different color than bright blue? >> Nope, bright blue is right, just like the blue on a torch. I know this all from experience. Had the engine running in the dark, opened the hood and for a moment I thought I was seeing the spark travel on the outside of the boot. But it was just blown exhaust gaskets. Darrell & Tweety ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:02:26 -0700 From: "Andrew Doering" Subject: C6 rebuild Can Anyone recommend a good reference book for rebuilding a C6. Thanks, Drew ------------------------------ From: Marvin Meyer Subject: 76 SC truck for sale Ontario Canada Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:02:45 -0400 I have lots of pics on this from the ground up as I rebuilt this 6 yrs ago. NEW with 22-25000 miles on it transmission C-6 (for 302) rear end and gears 3.50's drums wheel cycl axle bearings dual gas tanks/ sending units A/c condenser ( not in it now) brake flex lines and steel lines fuel lines front coils calipers rotors bearings This is only a part list, there are lots of good parts on this truck minimal rust for canadian truck, drivers side has a shallow crease down the side from front of box to wheel opening easily fixed via body shop. BOX is SOLID & CAB TOO The 302 is out and not fully assembled yet bored .040 over and all machining done by local machine shop Ranger XLT with all or most options at the time, cruise A/c intermitent wipers not a show truck, this was a daily driver. $800 canadain w/o motor $2000 with motor and a host of parts Marvin Meyer Stratford Ont. Canada 2hrs north of Detroit Mi meyer strat.netcan send pics as well Regards ------------------------------ From: "Lyndell Smith" Subject: Re: [61-79-list]DECISION,DECISIONS Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:41:59 -0400 I'm very confused and I need second opinion, I have two trucks and I only wand to rebuild one.. #1 is a 71 f100 w/360,3on the column lb fair cancer all over the bed. #2 is a 73xlt Lb 400/auto ac p/s p/b not running, question is which one will be the better truck to start with from a parts perspective and might have the better value long term or should I take the two and make one nice truck? any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance smitty ------------------------------ From: "G & J Boling" Subject: Re: 428 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:09:11 -0700 > Yes, but the key here is that most 360's and 390's(4.050") wont bore that far(4.13") and still be safe. Occasionally they will but not often. > Azie Magnusson > Ardmore, Al. ========================================= you Failed to mention the 360 ribbed truck blocks are thicker than the others and wil take the overbore quite well i know of a fella who rebuilds F/Es Only and he bores them to the 428 specs all the time and So Far no problems at all he,s been doing it for Many Years also Maybe the ones you tried were just the standard Non Ribbed blocks gordon with a 80 over 360 block with the 390 crank and rods still running STRONG after 3 years ------------------------------ From: "Matt Schu" Subject: Re: [61-79-list]DECISION,DECISIONS Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:34:38 AKDT I personally like the 71 better. The body style is cool, the dash is cool, and it is a little more unique. schu > >I'm very confused and I need second opinion, I have two trucks and I only >wand to rebuild one.. #1 is a 71 f100 w/360,3on the column lb fair cancer >all over the bed. >#2 is a 73xlt Lb 400/auto ac p/s p/b not running, question is which one >will >be the better truck to start with from a parts perspective and might have >the better value long term or should I take the two and make one nice >truck? >any help would be appreciated, > >thanks in advance >smitty > ><><><><> Win $50,000, Sony TV's and Sony Radios! <><><><> >Simply sign up for RacingOne.com's free e-mail newsletter. >Our newsletter provides you with breaking auto-racing news. >For each person who signs up for the free newsletter, we will >make a donation to Speedway Children's Charities. You get the >inside story on breaking auto-racing news and children get a >better future. >http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://opt-influence.com/a/racing3/ >========================================================== >To unsubscribe: >http://www.ford-trucks.com/mailinglist.html#item3 >Please remove this footer when replying. > ________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:18:49 -0400 From: Ken Payne Subject: ADMIN: How have they been? Just wanted to check in with the list members to see how the new ads are going over? This batch will run for approximately 3 days. Your comments and suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Ken Payne Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts ------------------------------ From: "Garrett Nelson" Subject: Re: Sick 390 Part 2 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:17:19 -0500 I experienced that same thing, or close to it anyways on my 390.. The threads of the spark plugs were not making good electrical contact with the heads, so it was arcing before the juice ever got the end of the plug. Take the plugs out and clean the threads. Get some anti-seize and coat the threads. Unscrew and screw in the plugs a few times. Hopefully that will clean it up enough so it makes contact. If that doesn't do it, you may need to take off the heads and do a good cleaning of the threads and anything else that needs it. Keep us posted. ----Garrett www.1966ford.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Srb To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.comSent: Monday, June 26, 2000 12:43 AM Subject: [61-79-list] Sick 390 Part 2 Hi gang. 74 F-250 390FE with a C-6. You may remember that I posted a message to the list about my sick 390. If you don't, here's a short description of the problem. I was on the freeway driving to work, running 65-70. Exited freeway and stopped at stoplight to make a left hand turn. Engine was running rough, seemed like it was missing. Light turns green, hit the gas. Truck is only running on 7 cylinders and has is down on power and vibrating like it is missing. Finished the two mile trek to work. Checked on Truck at noon, didn't see anything oblivious wrong and still missed. Had it towed home. Well I have been chasing this problem for a while. Stated with all of the small stuff with no results. Moved on to removing one plug wire at a time from distributor. Found the dead cylinder and also notice a change in sound from the engine when I took off the wire for the number 5 cylinder. Replaced the wire, no change in the way the engine ran but I heard a snapping sound coming from the engine. Pulled the wire and put it back a few time to verify the sound. It was a snapping sound, almost like part of the insulation had worn off the wire and the spark was jumping to the engine before it reached the plug. Checked the wire, it's fine. By now it is dark, better time to work on a vehicle in the hot desert. Put the wire back and start the truck and check to see if anything jumps out at me in the dark. Well something did jump out at me. I now know that I need a new exhaust manifold gasket because I could see the spark from the spark plug in between the head the exhaust manifold. I couldn't belive my eyes, so I had a friend of mine come over and take a look. He agreed with me, you can see the spark from the spark plug flashing between the head and the exhaust manifold. I haven't done a compression check on this cylinder yet. I am afraid to since I figure it won't have any compression due to the exhaust valve being stuck open. I already had a bad weekend after something in the brakes broke on my 66 and I about plowed into a car at the same freeway exit Friday morning. I managed to avoid the back end of this car, but the bumper did bounce off the front tire of a fellows truck. Neither truck sustained any body damage, I may just have to pay for a front end alignment for this gentlemen. I have to call him tomorrow. Luckily he was pretty cool about the whole thing. Me on the other hand, I had to have the truck towed home since I didn't have brakes anymore. I thought I was going to loose my baby for a while. The pucker marks stayed in the seat for a while. I am beginning to think I should find an alternate route to work. Sorry for rambling. Could there be anything else that would allow me to see the spark flash from the cylinder? Later Keith Srb ========================================================== To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com withthe words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the message. ------------------------------ From: JUMPINFORD aol.comDate: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:27:27 EDT Subject: Re: ADMIN: How have they been? Havent bugged me in the least. Who knows, I may even see something in em I like in one. But as far as the list goes, I dont have any probs with em. Hope it does its job with cutting costs. Thanks Ken, take it easy. Darrell & Tweety ------------------------------ End of 61-79-list Digest V2000 #139 *********************************** <><><><><><> Serious Help Finding That Part! <><><><><><> Ford Truck Enthusiasts now has "Ford Products Interchange" manuals in its online store. Two editions: 1950-1965 and 1963-1974. Cross references thousands of Ford parts. http://www.motorhaven.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1961-1979 Truck Mailing List Send posts to 61-79-list ford-trucks.comIf you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send an email to: listar ford-trucks.comwith the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the message. Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com ---------------------------------------------------------- .... 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