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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 61-79-list); Sat, 24 Jun 2000 19:04:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 19:04:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server To: 61-79-list digest users Reply-to: 61-79-list  ford-trucks.com Subject: 61-79-list Digest V2000 #137 Precedence: bulk ========================================================== Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1961-1979 Truck Mailing List Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the message. ========================================================== <><><><><><> Serious Help Finding That Part! <><><><><><> Ford Truck Enthusiasts now has "Ford Products Interchange" manuals in its online store. Two editions: 1950-1965 and 1963-1974. Cross references thousands of Ford parts. http://www.motorhaven.com/ ========================================================== ------------------------------------ 61-79-list Digest Fri, 23 Jun 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 137 In This Issue: ADMIN: Web site updates Re: 428 Purchase and rebuild 428 Purchase and rebuild Re: 428 Purchase and rebuild Dana-44 stub-axle 426 Re: 428 Purchase and rebuild Just my 2 cents worth? Re: Just my 2 cents worth? Re: Just my 2 cents worth? 428 Purchase and rebuild HEG-Y AND Z'S Re: 428 Purchase and rebuild Re: 428 Purchase and rebuild Re: HEG-Y AND Z'S ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:44:11 -0400 From: Ken Payne Subject: ADMIN: Web site updates The following updates have been made to the Ford Truck Enthusiasts web site (www.ford-trucks.com): Pictorial updates (links to each picture on main site page): -1999 Expedition -1992 F150 -1970 F100 Custom -1969 F100 Ranger -1965 F250 Camper Special -1959 F250 News updates (found in news section on left side of main site page): - Army truck technology pact sealed in Louisville; lighter, more fuel-efficient trucks is project goal Ken Payne Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts http://www.ford-trucks.com ------------------------------ From: "G & J Boling" Subject: Re: 428 Purchase and rebuild Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:00:37 -0700 > > Wow.... .080 overbore...sounds a little dicey to me but I guess if any motor > could take that it'd be an FE. ==================================== hi just spoke with my friend he says you CAN overbore the truck blocks .80 over if its the ribbed block and stick the 428 crank in it then you have the 428 then gordon ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey L Schulz" Subject: 428 Purchase and rebuild Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:07:51 -0600 Thought I would jump in here as I've been going down the 428 road for awhile....one is completed and another is in the works. When I was looking into overboring the 360/390 blocks to go along with the 1U cranks, the consensus seemed to be to first just have the cylinders sonic checked to ensure that the water jacket is thick enough to handle the bore. I have a copy of an article from a Mustang magazine that talks about this that I can forward to someone if they are interested. I ended up finding actual 428 blocks (one from this list!) because I figured if it did handle the bore, going another 0.010 for a rebuild down the road would be impossible and the block wouldn't be any good..... The original question seemed to be how to identify if the engine in the truck he's looking at is actually a 428.....I believe there are some casting numbers somewhere, but I don't know if they are visible with the engine installed in the vehicle....but there are some people here who do know what to look for (other than the good idea of the stroke measurement, although it doesn't tell you about the bore....could be a 1U in a 390). You might just ask the guy if he'll give you your money back if you buy it, take it apart, and discover that it's really not a 428 block and crank.....these are the two key parts, the rods and everything else is pretty much standard FE stuff. Remember, you'll have to address the high compression issue somehow, although I recently heard that someone may be offering 9:1 428 pistons..... All I know is that these motors have so much torque that I can hardly believe it....in other words, they're worth the extra hassle!!!!!!!!!! CJ (Colorado Jeff) ------------------------------ From: "Matt Schu" Subject: Re: 428 Purchase and rebuild Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:24:03 AKDT Kirk, Lemme see if I can help. I think it all depends on the price and condition of the 428. If it is already bored 40 over then I would pass. The easiest way to tell is to pull one of the heads and see if you can locate a .040 or something like it stamped on the top of the pistons. The reason for this is you can only bore a block so much before it needs to be sleeved or replaced because the cylinder walls are to thin. Sleeving a block is very expensive so I wouldn't consider that unless you really, really want that block. Now lets talk about your other options, but first lets look at some bore and strokes. 360 = 4.05 bore x 3.50 stroke 390 = 4.05 bore x 3.78 stroke 410 = 4.05 bore x 3.98 stroke (basically a 390 block with a 428 crank) 406 = 4.13 bore x 3.78 stroke (basically a 428 block with a 390 crank) 428 = 4.13 bore x 3.98 stroke 427 = 4.23 bore x 3.78 stroke So one way to do it is to get a 428 crank and build your 360 into a 410. This might be the best thing to do if your 360 block is in better shape than the 428. As you can see, you would need to bore your 360 approximately .080 over to get the same bore as a 428 but I think that would be way to thin for an FE. Some blocks are thick enough to do it, but I personally stay away from boring anything that much. Remember to keep in mind what you want to do with it, if you just want a good truck motor with lots of torque I would go 410 and spend the money on a good cam and intake. Don't forget to get headers, they make a big difference on FE blocks ( I need to get a set myself :) If you want to build a race car, then the 428 is the better choice. I am almost certain that any stock 428 is going to have better heads on it than a truck 360. Hope this helps, schu >Hi guys im looking into purchasing a 428 to replace my worn 360 in my 74 >F250 High boy 4X4 (those 35's will be spinning). This is my first >attempt at a build-up so if you guys could give me any advice it would >be appreciated. > >-Does it cost a lot more to rebuild a 428 compared to a 390? >-What are the main points I should be looking for when I go check this >motor out (its still in the 76 F150 running, it was swapped in yrs ago) >-What numbers or particulars should I be looking for to get its true >identity? >-It has the 4 barrel intake but only a 2V carb with adapter. > >Any other useful info would be greatly appreciated. >One of these days ill send in a pick of my truck > >Thanks >Kirk Baillie >Saskatoon, Sk >CANADA ________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "NP 540" Subject: Dana-44 stub-axle Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:45:38 PDT Hi everybody! I've been checking my Hollanders for interchangeables front axles on my 1979 F-150 regular cab 4x4. It says there were two kind of splines on those axles, going into differential end; 30 splines or 16 splines. However, it doesn't tell if the STUB-AXLE is the same, I mean, the axle from the U-joint to the 4x4 hub. Was there different kind of stub-axles, or just one? I am asking because there is a Dana-44 out of a truck like mine in a junkyard nearby, but with the driver's side axle already sold, and I was wondering if the stub-axle from the passenger's side would interchange with mine. Yea, my driver's side axle is GONE, due to U-joint failure followed by a freezed hub.... (It was not my truck then.) If that stub-axle would interchange, then, I'll only have to buy the other end of that axle new. Save a few $$$... Many thanks! Gerry From Canada VIVE LE FORD! ________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:18:14 -0700 From: scott Subject: 426 >>>Hi guys im looking into purchasing a 428 to replace my worn 360 in my 74 F250 High boy 4X4 .(those 35's will be spinning) I have a 428 in my 76 Hi-Boy and you are correct about the 35's. >>> This is my first attempt at a build-up so if you guys could give me any advice it would be appreciated. First bit of advise would be to get a book titled "How To Rebuild Big Block Ford Engines" by Steve Christ.Amazon and Summit are two sources for it. >>>>-Does it cost a lot more to rebuild a 428 compared to a 390? The pistons cost a bit more than 390's but other than that cost should be about the same if the crank,rods and block are rebuildable. >>>>-What are the main points I should be looking for when I go check this motor out (its still in the 76 F150 running, it was swapped in yrs ago) If it runs well with no knocks etc.and you plan on a rebuild anyway,buy it. Smoking,low compression,lifter noise etc is usually not a problem if you plan on rebuilding it. >>>-What numbers or particulars should I be looking for to get its true identity? As others have said there are no external marks. >>>-It has the 4 barrel intake but only a 2V carb with adapter. This is promising.I don't think there was a 4bbl.version of the 360 and I don't believe ther was a 2 bbl. 428. Does not mean some body did not change something tho.. >>>>In the end I think if you can get a complete 428 with a good block and crank you'll be ages ahead of trying to build one from what you've already got, I agree. I too have heard of 390's being bored to 4.13 to make a 428. You need to sonic check blocks until you find one that can take the massive over bore and each check and block cost money,and you still need a 410-428 crank to get the 428 cubic inches. My 428 also came with better heads than my 390 had. You may also luck out and get CJ or PI 428. I say if the price is right get the 428. ------------------------------ From: "Ted and Sarah Freeman" Subject: Re: 428 Purchase and rebuild Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 21:22:26 -0400 Be sure to check you wrist pin heights if your building the 410. The bore is the same as the 390 but the piston isn't the same. The wrist pin is closer to the top of the piston to allow for the extra throw of the crank. Basically if you use a 390 piston (you might get away with latter years low compression piston, but I wouldn't and didn't trust it), when the crank is a TDC the piston will hit the head. If you put 410 pistons in a 360 or 390 you would have very low compression. If you use a reverse 105 block, make sure it was built as an FE not an FT. The distributor is different in the FT. You can use the FT distributor, but would probably need to be recurved. I believe the reverse 105's were used starting in '73 in standard pickups. I picked one up out of a '73. I didn't bore it to a 428 but did build it as a 410. -Ted >Now lets talk about your other options, but first lets look at some bore and >strokes. > >360 = 4.05 bore x 3.50 stroke >390 = 4.05 bore x 3.78 stroke >410 = 4.05 bore x 3.98 stroke (basically a 390 block with a 428 crank) >406 = 4.13 bore x 3.78 stroke (basically a 428 block with a 390 crank) >428 = 4.13 bore x 3.98 stroke >427 = 4.23 bore x 3.78 stroke > >So one way to do it is to get a 428 crank and build your 360 into a 410. >This might be the best thing to do if your 360 block is in better shape than >the 428. As you can see, you would need to bore your 360 approximately .080 >over to get the same bore as a 428 but I think that would be way to thin for >an FE. Some blocks are thick enough to do it, but I personally stay away >from boring anything that much. > ------------------------------ From: "Desanto, Phillip" Subject: Just my 2 cents worth? Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 01:46:48 -0400 Hard to believe there's a computer question that I know the answer to, but here goes. (My 13 year old daughter told me this) To make a "cents" sign, just hold the "Alt" key down and type in 667 on the number pad on the right side. You can also make the symbol for "degrees" this way by typing in 248 while holding the Alt key down. 667=¢ and 248=°, see? There's actually a whole bunch of symbols in there, but they all look like goobldegook to me. I think that's where "Prince" found his recently discarded "name" ! LOL Later, Phil P.S,- this works on my PC here and at home, I hope it comes thru OK on the list. ( FTE content- I drove to work tonight in a Ford truck :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 02:25:14 -0400 From: Ken Payne Subject: Re: Just my 2 cents worth? At 01:46 AM 6/24/00 , you wrote: >Hard to believe there's a computer question that I know the answer to, but >here goes. (My 13 year old daughter told me this) To make a "cents" sign, >just hold the "Alt" key down and type in 667 on the number pad on the right >side. You can also make the symbol for "degrees" this way by typing in 248 >while holding the Alt key down. >667=¢ and 248=°, see? There's actually a whole bunch of symbols in there, >but they all look like goobldegook to me. I think that's where "Prince" >found his recently discarded "name" ! LOL Later, Phil > P.S,- this works on my PC here and at home, I hope it comes thru OK on the >list. > ( FTE content- I drove to work tonight in a Ford truck :-) Not a good idea. Anyone without a IBM compatible system will see junk as those are IBM specific ANSI extensions. That's why the :-) system is used. Also, >>many<< email systems only support 7-bit characters and the user ends up sending an alphanumeric instead of the symbol. Please don't use them here! :-( Ken Payne Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts ------------------------------ From: oldfords63 juno.comDate: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 06:16:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Just my 2 cents worth? Ken the head Kahoona said- > Not a good idea. Please don't use them here! :-( > Ken Payne Admin, FTE ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Uuhh, sorry Ken, I had NO idea. (See, I told you guys I know nothin ! ) I think I'll go back to lurking. :-) Later, Phil ________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:07:15 -0400 From: "O'Connor" Subject: 428 Purchase and rebuild Guys/Girls, Let's sort this out a little. If you have a 390, the stroke is 3.786. If you add a 428 crank the stroke is 3.984 and you get a 410 CID engine. No boring required. If you keep the 390 stroke and bore it out to 4.233, you get the 427 CID engine. The 428 gets to that CID thru a different path. It uses the old 406 CID bore at 4.132 and it's own unique crank at 3.984 stroke. Is anyone confused? Tim 66 F100 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:27:16 -0400 From: "O'Connor" Subject: HEG-Y AND Z'S Guys and Girls, Has anyone tore down a medium weight Ford manual transmission- HEG series? Could you get the thing apart with out removing the bearing from the output shaft? If the bearing has to be removed, how did you get it off without the special puller Ford supplied. Tim 66 F100 ------------------------------ From: DESMODROME aol.comDate: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:48:21 EDT Subject: Re: 428 Purchase and rebuild << Let's sort this out a little. If you have a 390, the stroke is 3.786. If you add a 428 crank the stroke is 3.984 and you get a 410 CID engine. No boring required. If you keep the 390 stroke and bore it out to 4.233, you get the 427 CID engine. The 428 gets to that CID thru a different path. It uses the old 406 CID bore at 4.132 and it's own unique crank at 3.984 stroke. Is anyone confused? >> Whew! I think this would be a good time to announce that I would like to leave my engine stock! ; ) Mike B. ------------------------------ From: JUMPINFORD aol.comDate: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:16:01 EDT Subject: Re: 428 Purchase and rebuild In a message dated 6/24/00 6:06:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, theoconnors mindspring.com writes:<< The 428 gets to that CID thru a different path. It uses the old 406 CID bore at 4.132 and it's own unique crank at 3.984 stroke >> Cept it aint its own unique crank, 410 uses it. Now are we confused? Darrell & Tweety ------------------------------ From: canzus seanet.comDate: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: HEG-Y AND Z'S At 09:27 AM 24:06:2000 -0400, O'Connor wrote: >Guys and Girls, >Has anyone tore down a medium weight Ford manual transmission- HEG series? >Could you get the thing apart with out removing the bearing from the output >shaft? If the bearing has to be removed, how did you get it off without >the special puller Ford supplied. >Tim 66 F100 If it's the tranny I'm thinking about, after you've got the input and counter shafts out stand it up on the input end, get the retaining ring on the output shaft off, and using a brass drift, beat the shaft out of the bearing. reassembly is the reverse...best to have a very stout work bench... Steve & the Rockette 68 F100, 390cid, FMX 63 F100, 292cid, 3speed 72 Capri 2000, hers 73 Capri 2600,tube frame going in..... 73 MGB GT, Our Toy 94 SHO, SWMBO's 98 Contour SVT, Mine, Mine, All Mine.... ------------------------------ End of 61-79-list Digest V2000 #137 *********************************** <><><><><><> Serious Help Finding That Part! <><><><><><> Ford Truck Enthusiasts now has "Ford Products Interchange" manuals in its online store. Two editions: 1950-1965 and 1963-1974. Cross references thousands of Ford parts. http://www.motorhaven.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1961-1979 Truck Mailing List Send posts to 61-79-list ford-trucks.comIf you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send an email to: listar ford-trucks.comwith the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the message. Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com ---------------------------------------------------------- .... 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