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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 61-79-list); Thu, 15 Jun 2000 17:49:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 17:49:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server To: 61-79-list digest users Reply-to: 61-79-list  ford-trucks.com Subject: 61-79-list Digest V2000 #128 Precedence: bulk ========================================================== Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1961-1979 Truck Mailing List Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the message. ========================================================== ------------------------------------ 61-79-list Digest Wed, 14 Jun 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 128 In This Issue: Re: Where will it end.... Re: 460 conversion fix up ADMIN: 39-69 shop manuals Re: 351W vs 460 FE swap (reverse rotation) Re: F250 4x4 '78 lefthand drive Powersteering unit wanted Re: 351W vs 460 Starter problems continue Re: Truck web site Re: Starter problems continue Re: 351W vs 460 Re: 65-6 body on 73-9 frame wheel wells Re: 351W vs 460 Re: 65-6 body on 73-9 frame Re: 351W vs 460 Fire Truck Re: What is Fender Welt and will I need to buy some? Re: What is Fender Welt and will I need to buy some? Classic T-Shirts Re: 351W vs 460 Engine Problems Re: wheel wells 351W or 400? Re: 351W or 400? Re: 351W or 400? Re: 351W or 400? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SHill48337 aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:43:00 EDT Subject: Re: Where will it end.... In a message dated 6/14/00 5:17:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, flash1 alltel.net writes: << ry SUMITT RACING and see if they have a dip stick for your truck they seem to have most anything else for the engines i have seen them in their catalog i know FOR SURE Gordon >> When you try Summit call and ask them if they can get it. They can get many many things that are not in their catalog. And generally they will give you a better price than you will find else where. Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460 ------------------------------ From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" Subject: Re: 460 conversion fix up Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 00:00:04 -0400 Take the radiator out & unbolt the engine from the motor mounts.Pick it up with an engine crane & move the engine forward enough to get the tranny slid backwards away from the motor. -----Original Message----- From: Toby Till To: FTE <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>Date: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 2:08 PM Subject: [61-79-list] 460 conversion fix up > >I am in the process of straiting some of the problems with my 75' F250 highboy. It has a 460 in it now but origionaly came with a 360. The guy who put the motor in used 351M mounts and adapted them some how to make it all fit in the truck. When trying to pull the trans I found that the motor is sitting to high in the truck because the bell housing was hitting the cab and there was not enough room to get the input shaft out of the pressure plate. The frame horns are origional. I need to knnow what the nex step is. I have contacted L&L but the person answering the phone was of little help. I need someone who knows what they are talking about and has done this conversion of putting a 460 in a highboy. If you have done this please let me know so I can get some measurements. The truck has PS,and A/C and uses a L&L PS bracket and L&L fender well exit headers. It has a staggered four core radiator that the core measures 24.5" X 26.5". the problem here is the shroud that is on it does! > not cover the top 4" and the bottom 2" of core. I want to fix this because I can not let the truck sit and idle with the A/C on in this Atlanta heat. If you have a shroud that will fit my rad. let me know what you want for it. > >Thanks, > >Toby Till > >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with>the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the >message. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 00:37:31 -0400 From: Ken Payne Subject: ADMIN: 39-69 shop manuals To all Ford Truck Enthusiasts list subscribers: The good news is Ford Truck Enthusiasts continues to grow. The bad news is our expenses go up each month as a result of co-location bandwidth fees. The **GREAT** news is, until we get a few more advertisers, we're putting some things on sale in the web store to cover the web site expenses. From now until June 22nd (one week), all 1939-1969 shop manuals are 15% off with the exception of 1949-1952, 1954-1955 and 1956 manuals. If you go to the web site, www.ford-trucks.com and go into the online store, you'll see the sale section. Thanks gang, Ken Payne Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts ------------------------------ From: SHill48337 aol.comDate: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 00:45:08 EDT Subject: Re: 351W vs 460 I would like to hear some discussion of the following subject: Making the choice between reringing a 351W and making a cam change verses rebuilding a 460. The truck is a F-150 4x4 with a 351W with a C6 and attached transfer case. Have a 460 that will cost around $800 to rebuild. The goal is to have a truck that can go through the woods on hunting trips and occasionally pull a large camping trailer. The current engine does fine in the woods, but only pulls the trailer up steep freeway hills at 30 MPH in low gear. If a 268 or 270 were put in this engine would that significantly improve freeway hills with the trailer? Obviously this would be the cheapest fix. A little more information, the current 351W's rings are shot at 40K due to carb being too rich for half of those miles. So this engine needs to be repaired. But shifting over to the 460 means getting a C6 with transfer case that will bolt to the 460 as the 351W configuration will not. So, bottom line question, will the higher RPM cam allow this engine to perform better on the freeway? Would it be possible to get 45 or 50 in second gear, instead of 30 MPH? Or is there no substitute displacement?? Any and all ideas are welcome. I know the 460 will pull these hills at around 60 or better. Thanks Burt Hill Kennewick, WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:33:50 -0700 From: mclough page.az.net (Michael Clough)Subject: FE swap (reverse rotation) Concerning the reverse rotation, I know that in some twin engine inboard applications, the port (left) engine will be set up to run backwards so the prop will turn backwards. I would say that it would be rare to run across one but it is always possible. I have never seen a FE version that did this but I have seen several Mercruiser (Ch*vy) units set up this way on large cruisers. If it has a stern drive on it then they should all turn the same way. The reverse rotation thing only was applied to inboards (direct drive or v-drive). later, mike ------------------------------ From: Brazzadog aol.comDate: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 03:54:46 EDT Subject: Re: F250 4x4 '78 lefthand drive Powersteering unit wanted > From: "warrick" > Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 12:33:07 +0200 > > I have a 1978 lefthand drive Ford F250 4x4. Which im trying > to find a power steering unit to fit. I live in south africa and parts > and accessories are very scarce. Please could anyone help with > ideas. One of the 4x4 magazines just did an article on swapping a 4x4 front axle under a 2 wheel drive Ford pickup. They used a Chevy power steering box and talked about how they fabricated the mount. I've seen it done on a '77 F-250 4x4. If Chevrolet products are more common and you have access to someone who could fabricate the mount, that might be your best option. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ From: "G & J Boling" Subject: Re: 351W vs 460 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 05:26:28 -0700 > So, bottom line question, will the higher RPM cam allow this engine to > perform better on the freeway? Would it be possible to get 45 or 50 in > second gear, instead of 30 MPH? Or is there no substitute displacement?? > Any and all ideas are welcome. I know the 460 will pull these hills at > around 60 or better. Thanks > Burt Hill Kennewick, WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460 > ======================================== well as you said theres no replacement for dis-placement UNLESS your going to stick a ton of money into the 351 windsor go with the 460 it seems to be the better choice for what your doing gordon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:26:55 -0400 (EDT) From: younkers auracom.com (R)Subject: Starter problems continue OK, so I now know I have a 1980 302 in my 78. I've put a new starter on, tried swapping out the solenoid switch, charged the battery over night (it's only two years old) and still there's no power going to the starter, or so it seems. When I turn the key, the solenoid noise is audible but it almost sounds as if something is binding the starter. I can turn the engine over by hand so it's not that. Seems like the battery power is being dissipated somewhere before it gets to the starter. I've cut out a couple of fusible links and closed those circuits (a couple of those links were in real bad shape) but still have no solution. I really need to get this going by Friday as I have to travel about 200 km away. Any ideas on this problem would be greatly appreciated. Email me directly if you can as I'm on digest and will be trying to get her going this evening before I go to work. Thanks all, Robert Younker Bonkrr younkers auracom.comProud Owner 1978 F-150 Step Side 4X4 (156,000km) plate - NTFRGLE 1995 SHO Taurus (134,000km) 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe (249,000 km) plate - PWRBY4D Over 500,000 kilometres of Power By FORD ------------------------------ From: "Don Jones" Subject: Re: Truck web site Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 05:59:14 PDT Thats a cool fire truck. Our fire dept is currently spec'ing out a new a new truck to replace a 1971 CH* van. Right now it looks like we are going to get an f-450 crew cab with a powerstroke diesel, extended wheelbase and custom walk through back. Interesting thing is that the company that does the conversions wont touch a GM because they dont make the equivelant to an f-450 and its too complicated to extend the frame. Don Jones 1970 f-250 4X4 ________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "wish" Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:30:09 GMT Subject: Re: Starter problems continue >OK, so I now know I have a 1980 302 in my 78. I've put a new starter on, >tried swapping out the solenoid switch, charged the battery over night (it's >only two years old) and still there's no power going to the starter, or so >it seems. When I turn the key, the solenoid noise is audible but it almost >sounds as if something is binding the starter Can you actually hear the starter engage ? I'd suspect a corroded wire, they corrode on the inside so you can't really see it all the time, but if you touch the wires they should be hot. I'd check the one running from the starter to the solenoid and from the solenoid to the battery. I'd also check for ground wires, there should be one from the block to the chassis and then to the battery (or directly to the battery) and there should also be one from the back of the engine to the firewall. I've also had a layer of grease and stuff build up under my starter and the bolts come loose to the point that there's no ground through the starter itself. I can't swear that was the problem, but all I did was remove and re-install the same starter and it worked fine after that. Just my $.02 wish 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish Ford Truck Enthusiasts http://www.ford-trucks.com ------------------------------ From: "wish" Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:40:04 GMT Subject: Re: 351W vs 460 >I would like to hear some discussion of the following subject: Making the >choice between reringing a 351W and making a cam change verses rebuilding a >460. The truck is a F-150 4x4 with a 351W with a C6 and attached transfer >case. That's quite a choice ... what year are we talkin about with the 351W ? > Have a 460 that will cost around $800 to rebuild. What year is the truck? A 460 will require a new tranny (as you mentioned below) and possibly some specialized motor mounts along with all the accessories and such, its quite a lot of work to swap those motors, and you'll have more than just $800 in it before its done. > The goal is to have >a truck that can go through the woods on hunting trips and occasionally pull >a large camping trailer. The current engine does fine in the woods, but only >pulls the trailer up steep freeway hills at 30 MPH in low gear. If a 268 or >270 were put in this engine would that significantly improve freeway hills >with the trailer? Obviously this would be the cheapest fix. > >So, bottom line question, will the higher RPM cam allow this engine to >perform better on the freeway? Regarding latemodel trucks especially, Tony will vouch that I've been saying you've gotta make them breathe. The stock 351W's are generally so undercammed and so bottlenecked that they can't produce the power you need at any kind of hiway use rpm. What sort of gears are you running ? We had an 89 with 4.10's and a C6, talk about a dog. It was pulling 3500rpm's at 65mph. Unfortunately it was cammed as a work truck and lost all power over 2500, if you were around 2500 it had some pull, but below that it really could pull pretty good. Now we've got a 93 Lightning ... better cam, better intake, slightly better computer, oh and better exhaust ... still 4.10 gears, added an OD tranny (the E4OD actually, which is based on the same C6 we had before) This motor pulls hard all the way to 5000 rpm's, and can still use the low end grunt to haul trailers and such around. Now if you're sticking with a C6, you probably don't want anythign as low as 4.10's if you're doing highway driving, but keeping those diff's the same makes a good comparison between the two trucks. My vote, if you're looking for a quick fix would definitely be to cam it and re-ring it... if that's not enough, you've still got a 460 and you can take your time setting it up. Just my $.02 wish 96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L 73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish Ford Truck Enthusiasts http://www.ford-trucks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:58:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Brett Habben Subject: Re: 65-6 body on 73-9 frame Don, I was also wondering if the wider axle would cause clearance problems with those tight 65-6 wheel wells. Will the tires clear OK? Thanks, Brett Super75cab >With the 73-79 frame and a 65-66 bed you are going to need to >make new holes in the bed or make new mounts. >Don Grossman >duckdon mac.com>>Folks, >>Has anybody put a '65-66 body on '73-79 frame (2 wheel drive >>only)? In '73 the wheelbase was lengthened and the rear axle >>was widened. But what about the box? >>Thanks, >>Brett > ------------------------------ From: daler atlantic.netDate: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 10:24:44 -0400 Subject: wheel wells hey all! i'm doing a frame off resto and learning as i go with the body work. I've slowly acquired all the body tools,compressor etc and am having the time of my life while at the same time am terrified.it's very exhilerating. Anyway, i've come to a sticking point and wanted to appeal to the collective group wisdom. The truck is a '65 F-100 and the inside engine compartment fender/wheel well(i don't know what they're called) seems to be coated or galvanized i don't know what exactly. Does anyone know what the finish on them is ? They have a little rust, not major though. If they are galvanized or whatever, is it common to be able to find someone that does that kind of resurfacing or am i going to just have to paint them. IF that is the case, what kind of prep is involved for that surface so the paint sticks AND what kind of paint is best for resisting the inevitable fluids that will come in contact with it. I appreciate any info. Dale Rimkunas daler atlantic.net------------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through Atlantic.Net Webmail: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webmail.atlantic.net/ ------------------------------ From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" Subject: Re: 351W vs 460 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:17:36 -0400 Remember the saying--"There is no substitute for cubic inches" I would go for the 460 !!! Unless you are worried about gas mileage. -----Original Message----- From: SHill48337 aol.com To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-listford-trucks.com>Cc: georgeclan urx.com Date: Thursday, June 15, 2000 12:46 AM Subject: [61-79-list] Re: 351W vs 460 >I would like to hear some discussion of the following subject: Making the >choice between reringing a 351W and making a cam change verses rebuilding a >460. The truck is a F-150 4x4 with a 351W with a C6 and attached transfer >case. Have a 460 that will cost around $800 to rebuild. The goal is to have >a truck that can go through the woods on hunting trips and occasionally pull >a large camping trailer. The current engine does fine in the woods, but only >pulls the trailer up steep freeway hills at 30 MPH in low gear. If a 268 or >270 were put in this engine would that significantly improve freeway hills >with the trailer? Obviously this would be the cheapest fix. > >A little more information, the current 351W's rings are shot at 40K due to >carb being too rich for half of those miles. So this engine needs to be >repaired. But shifting over to the 460 means getting a C6 with transfer case >that will bolt to the 460 as the 351W configuration will not. > >So, bottom line question, will the higher RPM cam allow this engine to >perform better on the freeway? Would it be possible to get 45 or 50 in >second gear, instead of 30 MPH? Or is there no substitute displacement?? >Any and all ideas are welcome. I know the 460 will pull these hills at >around 60 or better. Thanks >Burt Hill Kennewick, WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460 >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with>the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the >message. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:40:33 -0700 From: Don Grossman Subject: Re: 65-6 body on 73-9 frame >Don, >I was also wondering if the wider axle would cause clearance problems with >those tight 65-6 wheel wells. Will the tires clear OK? >Thanks, >Brett >Super75cab The final result will be determined by the wheel and tire combination used. If you don't use a largely oversized tire you should be fine. Some of it will depend on if you are lowering or lifting the truck. A stock suspension with a stock wheel and tire you should be fine. I say should because I don't know the condition of the coils, ect. -- Don Grossman duckdon mac.com43 GPW 63 F-100 4x4 77 F250 99 Contour ------------------------------ From: "Jason Derra" Subject: Re: 351W vs 460 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:48:52 -0700 Yes there is no substitute for cubic inches. But you can stroke a Windsor to the mid 400 cube range and it will be reliable and provide a lot of power and low end torque. Equal or better to a stock or mildly built 460. No you can't do it for less than $800 that your talking for rebuilding the 460. But along with the 460, there are some other modifications that will drive the cost up considerably. The stroked Windsor will bolt right back into the original space. Jason '69 Bronco '96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 8:17 AM Subject: [61-79-list] Re: 351W vs 460 > Remember the saying--"There is no substitute for cubic inches" I would go > for the 460 !!! Unless you are worried about gas mileage. > -----Original Message----- > From: SHill48337 aol.com > To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-listford-trucks.com>> Cc: georgeclan urx.com > Date: Thursday, June 15, 2000 12:46 AM > Subject: [61-79-list] Re: 351W vs 460 > > > >I would like to hear some discussion of the following subject: Making the > >choice between reringing a 351W and making a cam change verses rebuilding a > >460. The truck is a F-150 4x4 with a 351W with a C6 and attached transfer > >case. Have a 460 that will cost around $800 to rebuild. The goal is to > have > >a truck that can go through the woods on hunting trips and occasionally > pull > >a large camping trailer. The current engine does fine in the woods, but > only > >pulls the trailer up steep freeway hills at 30 MPH in low gear. If a 268 > or > >270 were put in this engine would that significantly improve freeway hills > >with the trailer? Obviously this would be the cheapest fix. > > > >A little more information, the current 351W's rings are shot at 40K due to > >carb being too rich for half of those miles. So this engine needs to be > >repaired. But shifting over to the 460 means getting a C6 with transfer > case > >that will bolt to the 460 as the 351W configuration will not. > > > >So, bottom line question, will the higher RPM cam allow this engine to > >perform better on the freeway? Would it be possible to get 45 or 50 in > >second gear, instead of 30 MPH? Or is there no substitute displacement?? > >Any and all ideas are welcome. I know the 460 will pull these hills at > >around 60 or better. Thanks > >Burt Hill Kennewick, WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460 > >========================================================== > >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with> >the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the > >message. > > > > ========================================================== > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the > message. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:35:01 -0400 From: "Don Haring, Jr." Subject: Fire Truck Nate >In a message dated 6/13/00 10:58:27 PM Central Daylight Time, >tim-pam williams-net.com writes:<< It is that light yellowish color with a nice flame job << painted on the front.Looks cool. >> >Hmmm... a firetruck with flames on it. That's irony in its purest form. >Don't think I've ever seen that before. That's called "fighting fire with fire." *groan* Sorry, that was too easy. ;) -don -- Don in Philadelphia #8142, Editor/Internet Director, Keystone Chapter FCA 66 Falcon Deluxe Club Wagon (daily driver) 61 Falcon Futura | Vespa and Lambretta scooters ------------------------------ From: "David J. Turner" Subject: Re: What is Fender Welt and will I need to buy some? Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:26:56 -0400 MabelFrom: Garrett Nelson To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-listford-trucks.com>Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 8:30 PM Subject: [61-79-list] What is Fender Welt and will I need to buy some? Garrett, Your 66 looks good. I repainted my 66 in my own drive way! Had everything off except the cab. Didn't take it off the chassis. ( amateur restoration.) Anyway about your question on fender welt. Fender welt was commonly used during the 30's 40's and 50's to seal the fender panels to the body. Most of it is about 1 1/2' wide rubberized cloth with a small round bead on one side. The small bead is the only part that shows on the vehicle. Bottom line, you don't need any for your truck. You will find a rubber seal between the front fender and the body just in front of the door to protect splash from the backside, but this is not fenderwelt. Dave Turner 1703 Roxbury Drive Wilson, NC 27893 252 291 1904 ------------------------------ From: "Garrett Nelson" Subject: Re: What is Fender Welt and will I need to buy some? Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:07:52 -0500 Thanks for the info! *I learn something new everyday* --Garrett www.1966ford.com ----- Original Message ----- From: David J. Turner To: 61-79 FORD LIST Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 11:26 AM Subject: [61-79-list] Re: What is Fender Welt and will I need to buy some? MabelFrom: Garrett Nelson To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-listford-trucks.com>Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 8:30 PM Subject: [61-79-list] What is Fender Welt and will I need to buy some? Garrett, Your 66 looks good. I repainted my 66 in my own drive way! Had everything off except the cab. Didn't take it off the chassis. ( amateur restoration.) Anyway about your question on fender welt. Fender welt was commonly used during the 30's 40's and 50's to seal the fender panels to the body. Most of it is about 1 1/2' wide rubberized cloth with a small round bead on one side. The small bead is the only part that shows on the vehicle. Bottom line, you don't need any for your truck. You will find a rubber seal between the front fender and the body just in front of the door to protect splash from the backside, but this is not fenderwelt. Dave Turner 1703 Roxbury Drive Wilson, NC 27893 252 291 1904 ========================================================== To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com withthe words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the message. ------------------------------ From: EffieFrd aol.comDate: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 17:11:49 EDT Subject: Classic T-Shirts Hey Y'all, A while back someone posted an address for a website with lots of car and truck T-shirts. I lost the address before I could order one of those cool shirts with the '65 on the front. Anybody have it or remember it? Thanks for your help. :o) ~Mel 1965 F100 1989 Bronco G.R.I.T.S ~ Girls Raised In The SOUTH! ------------------------------ From: "G & J Boling" Subject: Re: 351W vs 460 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 17:35:05 -0700 ford does now make a stroker kit for the 351 windsor that makes it a 392 with over 450 h.p. at 4000 rpms for i think about 1500.00 or so gordon ---------- > From: Jason Derra > To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com> Subject: [61-79-list] Re: 351W vs 460 > Date: Thursday, June 15, 2000 8:48 AM > > Yes there is no substitute for cubic inches. But you can stroke a Windsor > to the mid 400 cube range and it will be reliable and provide a lot of power > and low end torque. Equal or better to a stock or mildly built 460. No you > can't do it for less than $800 that your talking for rebuilding the 460. > But along with the 460, there are some other modifications that will drive > the cost up considerably. The stroked Windsor will bolt right back into the > original space. > Jason > '69 Bronco > '96 F250 Ext Cab 4WD Powerstroke > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" > To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 8:17 AM > Subject: [61-79-list] Re: 351W vs 460 > > > > Remember the saying--"There is no substitute for cubic inches" I would go > > for the 460 !!! Unless you are worried about gas mileage. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: SHill48337 aol.com > > To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-listford-trucks.com>> > Cc: georgeclan urx.com > > Date: Thursday, June 15, 2000 12:46 AM > > Subject: [61-79-list] Re: 351W vs 460 > > > > > > >I would like to hear some discussion of the following subject: Making > the > > >choice between reringing a 351W and making a cam change verses rebuilding > a > > >460. The truck is a F-150 4x4 with a 351W with a C6 and attached > transfer > > >case. Have a 460 that will cost around $800 to rebuild. The goal is to > > have > > >a truck that can go through the woods on hunting trips and occasionally > > pull > > >a large camping trailer. The current engine does fine in the woods, but > > only > > >pulls the trailer up steep freeway hills at 30 MPH in low gear. If a 268 > > or > > >270 were put in this engine would that significantly improve freeway > hills > > >with the trailer? Obviously this would be the cheapest fix. > > > > > >A little more information, the current 351W's rings are shot at 40K due > to > > >carb being too rich for half of those miles. So this engine needs to be > > >repaired. But shifting over to the 460 means getting a C6 with transfer > > case > > >that will bolt to the 460 as the 351W configuration will not. > > > > > >So, bottom line question, will the higher RPM cam allow this engine to > > >perform better on the freeway? Would it be possible to get 45 or 50 in > > >second gear, instead of 30 MPH? Or is there no substitute displacement?? > > >Any and all ideas are welcome. I know the 460 will pull these hills at > > >around 60 or better. Thanks > > >Burt Hill Kennewick, WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460 > > >========================================================== > > >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with> > >the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the > > >message. > > > > > > > ========================================================== > > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with> > the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the > > message. > > > > > > ========================================================== > To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the > message. > ------------------------------ From: "PitStop Performance" Subject: Engine Problems Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:56:58 CDT OK, first the facts: 1971 Ford F100 w/1977 351M. 351M was rebuilt in stock form. I even saw the papers from the rebuild shop. Only about 15,000 since rebuild. The person overheated this engine pretty badly... cooked all the paint off of the heads and melted the ends of the spark plug wire boots. After overheating the heads and several wires were replaced. After sitting about a year the carb was also rebuilt. I bought this truck about six months ago and I am attempting to restore it (needs a few front end parts and they are a pain to find, but that's another post...) Anyway, the truck DOES run and runs kinda OK. I think the carb is shot. Looks like it has been *tinkered* with and accelerator pump leaks. When I first bought it, the engine smoked just a little. It only had about 100 miles on it since the heads were replaced. I am guessing a little oil was in the cylinders (he soaked the cylinders with oil to keep them from rusting while the heads were off) or the rings are shot from the overheating (may have lost their temper). But here is the part that has me wondering... When you start the engine it runs kinda rough, but has OK power (will spin tires if it doesn't die). But once the engine is ran up to temp and shut off the engine will not restart. It acts as if the battery is dead. I have checked the timing and it seems good. If I retard the timing any more it runs awful. Also, after shutting off the key (from *run* to *off*) the engine seems to get a sudden shot of juice from the battery and starts to spin... IN REVERSE! This only happens when the battery seems dead (after engine is warm). Obvious things I have checked: -Timing seems OK. Any more retarded and engine runs poor. -Firing order is right. -All battery and ground connections are tight. Help me narrow this down before I dismantle the entire thing. Thanks guys, Harry ________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Ted and Sarah Freeman" Subject: Re: wheel wells Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 17:57:27 -0400 I know Eastwood makes a galvanizing solution. I think I would paint it though with POR15 or something. -Ted -----Original Message----- From: daler atlantic.net To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-listford-trucks.com>Date: Thursday, June 15, 2000 9:25 AM Subject: [61-79-list] wheel wells >hey all! >i'm doing a frame off resto and learning as i go with the body work. I've >slowly acquired all the body tools,compressor etc and am having the time of my >life while at the same time am terrified.it's very exhilerating. Anyway, i've >come to a sticking point and wanted to appeal to the collective group wisdom. >The truck is a '65 F-100 and the inside engine compartment fender/wheel well(i >don't know what they're called) seems to be coated or galvanized i don't know >what exactly. Does anyone know what the finish on them is ? They have a little >rust, not major though. If they are galvanized or whatever, is it common to be >able to find someone that does that kind of resurfacing or am i going to just >have to paint them. IF that is the case, what kind of prep is involved for that >surface so the paint sticks AND what kind of paint is best for resisting the >inevitable fluids that will come in contact with it. I appreciate any info. > >Dale Rimkunas >daler atlantic.net> >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >This mail sent through Atlantic.Net Webmail: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://webmail.atlantic.net/ >========================================================== >To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with>the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the >message. > ------------------------------ From: "Southerland, Rich" Subject: 351W or 400? Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:32:11 -0700 '77 Ford E150. Got it for free about a year ago (it had sat for 4 yrs). Van has 130K on chassis, 50K on trans and about 35K on engine. I replaced the timing chain recently with a steel set (yes, the rebuilt engine had a NYLON cam gear in it, but mind you, it was rebuilt nearly 15 years ago-I have the receipts!) and the 351 is running fine. I rented a car trailer to pick up a N*ssan truck. With the truck and trailer attached to the van (somewhere around 3500 pounds) it really dogged out on the hills. We want to purchase a small travel trailer for camping. I suspect a small (around 20') travel trailer will weigh in the ball park of 3500 pounds as well. We really like this van and have no intentions of getting rid of it, but the stock 351 may not be up to the task of pulling the trailer. A 460 swap is out of the question. I know Ford had a 400 in passenger cars of that era. Would the extra 50 cubes help? I have to deal with CA smog tests for a couple more years, so a 4 barrel carb or headers is a no-no too. Doesn't the 400 share the same valve covers, intake, ect as the 351W? If I used my old valve covers (with the 351 emission sticker) could a person tell the difference just by eyeball? Or is the 400 just a POS? Thanks! Rich ------------------------------ From: "Nichols, Josh" Subject: Re: 351W or 400? Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:37:12 -0700 Is the 351 in your van a 351M or a 351W? In 77 it should be a 351M. If this is the case a 400 is identical on the outside to your 351M. The only difference is the crank and the pistons. Everything else would be interchangeable. Josh -----Original Message----- From: Southerland, Rich [mailto:rsouther alldata.com]Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 3:32 PM To: 'ford list' Subject: [61-79-list] 351W or 400? '77 Ford E150. Got it for free about a year ago (it had sat for 4 yrs). Van has 130K on chassis, 50K on trans and about 35K on engine. I replaced the timing chain recently with a steel set (yes, the rebuilt engine had a NYLON cam gear in it, but mind you, it was rebuilt nearly 15 years ago-I have the receipts!) and the 351 is running fine. I rented a car trailer to pick up a N*ssan truck. With the truck and trailer attached to the van (somewhere around 3500 pounds) it really dogged out on the hills. We want to purchase a small travel trailer for camping. I suspect a small (around 20') travel trailer will weigh in the ball park of 3500 pounds as well. We really like this van and have no intentions of getting rid of it, but the stock 351 may not be up to the task of pulling the trailer. A 460 swap is out of the question. I know Ford had a 400 in passenger cars of that era. Would the extra 50 cubes help? I have to deal with CA smog tests for a couple more years, so a 4 barrel carb or headers is a no-no too. Doesn't the 400 share the same valve covers, intake, ect as the 351W? If I used my old valve covers (with the 351 emission sticker) could a person tell the difference just by eyeball? Or is the 400 just a POS? Thanks! Rich ========================================================== To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com withthe words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the message. ------------------------------ From: "Bill Beyer" Subject: Re: 351W or 400? Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:51:36 -0700 In a word...No...the 400 doesn't share any major parts with a 351W. Nor is a a POS but it's not a good swap candidate if you have a 351W in the van. Now a 351M would be perfect because it is identical to a 400 in all respects and it's impossible to tell them apart from the outside. Your only hope is to find some legal ways to hop up the W and still get it to pass the sniffer... "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets" ----- Original Message ----- From: Southerland, Rich To: 'ford list' <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 3:32 PM Subject: [61-79-list] 351W or 400? > '77 Ford E150. Got it for free about a year ago (it had sat for 4 yrs). > Van has 130K on chassis, 50K on trans and about 35K on engine. I replaced > the timing chain recently with a steel set (yes, the rebuilt engine had a > NYLON cam gear in it, but mind you, it was rebuilt nearly 15 years ago-I > have the receipts!) and the 351 is running fine. > > I rented a car trailer to pick up a N*ssan truck. With the truck and > trailer attached to the van (somewhere around 3500 pounds) it really dogged > out on the hills. We want to purchase a small travel trailer for camping. > I suspect a small (around 20') travel trailer will weigh in the ball park of > 3500 pounds as well. > > We really like this van and have no intentions of getting rid of it, but the > stock 351 may not be up to the task of pulling the trailer. A 460 swap is > out of the question. I know Ford had a 400 in passenger cars of that era. > Would the extra 50 cubes help? I have to deal with CA smog tests for a > couple more years, so a 4 barrel carb or headers is a no-no too. > > Doesn't the 400 share the same valve covers, intake, ect as the 351W? If I > used my old valve covers (with the 351 emission sticker) could a person tell > the difference just by eyeball? > ------------------------------ From: "Southerland, Rich" Subject: Re: 351W or 400? Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:49:34 -0700 Bummer. I know it's a W. The trucks are the ones that got the 351M if I recall correctly. A friend has a Bronco (a '79 I think) with a 400 and that's what got me to thinking. That said, any suggestions on what to do with what I got? -----Original Message----- From: Bill Beyer [mailto:bbeyer pacifier.com]Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 3:52 PM To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.comSubject: [61-79-list] Re: 351W or 400? In a word...No...the 400 doesn't share any major parts with a 351W. Nor is a a POS but it's not a good swap candidate if you have a 351W in the van. Now a 351M would be perfect because it is identical to a 400 in all respects and it's impossible to tell them apart from the outside. Your only hope is to find some legal ways to hop up the W and still get it to pass the sniffer... "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets" ----- Original Message ----- From: Southerland, Rich To: 'ford list' <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 3:32 PM Subject: [61-79-list] 351W or 400? > '77 Ford E150. Got it for free about a year ago (it had sat for 4 yrs). > Van has 130K on chassis, 50K on trans and about 35K on engine. I replaced > the timing chain recently with a steel set (yes, the rebuilt engine had a > NYLON cam gear in it, but mind you, it was rebuilt nearly 15 years ago-I > have the receipts!) and the 351 is running fine. > > I rented a car trailer to pick up a N*ssan truck. With the truck and > trailer attached to the van (somewhere around 3500 pounds) it really dogged > out on the hills. We want to purchase a small travel trailer for camping. > I suspect a small (around 20') travel trailer will weigh in the ball park of > 3500 pounds as well. > > We really like this van and have no intentions of getting rid of it, but the > stock 351 may not be up to the task of pulling the trailer. A 460 swap is > out of the question. I know Ford had a 400 in passenger cars of that era. > Would the extra 50 cubes help? I have to deal with CA smog tests for a > couple more years, so a 4 barrel carb or headers is a no-no too. > > Doesn't the 400 share the same valve covers, intake, ect as the 351W? If I > used my old valve covers (with the 351 emission sticker) could a person tell > the difference just by eyeball? > ========================================================== To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com withthe words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the message. ------------------------------ End of 61-79-list Digest V2000 #128 *********************************** ---------------------------------------------------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1961-1979 Truck Mailing List Send posts to 61-79-list ford-trucks.comIf you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send an email to: listar ford-trucks.comwith the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the message. Visit Our Web Site: http://www.ford-trucks.com ---------------------------------------------------------- .... To access the rest of this feature you must be a logged in Registered User Of Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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