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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 61-79-list); Mon, 05 Jun 2000 09:28:10 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 09:28:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: 61-79-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
Reply-to: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: 61-79-list Digest V2000 #117
Precedence: bulk

==========================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1961-1979 Truck Mailing List

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------------------------------------
61-79-list Digest Sun, 04 Jun 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 117

In This Issue:
Re: 351M Oil Seal question...
Re: 351M Oil Seal question...
Re: Hot August Nights
ADMIN: Old magazines
A Good Trade?
Re: A Good Trade?
Hot August Nights
Re: 302 won't start
Re: 302 won't start
ATF in Manuals
Re: A Good Trade?
Rebuild advice/tips wanted
Re: Rebuild advice/tips wanted
Re: Rebuild advice/tips wanted
Re: Gas milage
Re: toploader website???
Re: 77 351 Smog Stuff

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Serian" flashmail.com>
Subject: Re: 351M Oil Seal question...
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 10:49:23 -0400


> Chilton book says I can do it without removing the
> transmission as only the 6-300 and the diesel engines have one piece seals.
> Supposedly this 351M, like all the other V8's, uses a two piece seal that
> can be replaced while the engine and tranny are still in the truck.
>
> So is it true that I can do this and if so, any tips for making a very oily
> and grimey job any easier?

I replaced the rear main seal in the 351M that is currently in my Bronco.
I had the engine out at the time, but it can be done while everything is
still in the truck by just taking out the oil pan and loosening the main
bearing caps *just a little* - enough to let the crankshaft come down in the
back a fraction of an inch to let the old seal slide out and the new one slide
in, but no more. The rear bearing cap comes off completely when doing
this project, as it houses the bottom half of the seal. Remember to let
the ends of the rubber seal halves overhang a little, because if you line
up the ends of the rubber seal with the edges of the bearing cap, there
is a greater probability that it will leak thru all the lined up edges.

The only useful tip to make it less messy is to drain the oil pan *before*
taking it off ;-) It might be a little cleaner if you let the residual oil film
drip off for a couple of hours onto a pile of newspapers or cat litter under
the truck after the oil pan is off, but this is optional.




------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" alltel.net>
Subject: Re: 351M Oil Seal question...
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 11:08:22 -0400

The rear bearing cap comes off completely when doing
> this project, as it houses the bottom half of the seal.
==========================================================
BE SURE that the hash marks on the crank line up with the seal and the
thrust bearing is adjusted correctly
gordon


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 08:15:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Art Verling excite.com>
Subject: Re: Hot August Nights

Ken,
The HAN people have a deal for members something like $20.00 a night at the
Hilton. The hilton is where most of the action is. This is a great deal. If
you dont want to pay the $100.00 to join HAN I would be happy to reserve the
room under my name for you. I also have some room to park a motorhome anyone
needs a place to park during the event. You cant find a room or an RV spot
for 50 miles if you dont plan ahead.
Art
64 F100
Reno, NV
art.verling excite.com





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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 11:49:57 -0400
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: ADMIN: Old magazines

Gang,

I was recently contacted by a lady whose father passed away. He
left behind a large collection of magazines and she thinks it will
be a shame to throw them away (and I agree). She's trying Ebay,
but regardless of whether she can sell them, she doesn't want them
to go to waste.

As many of you know, old magazines contain a wealth of information
that can be hard to find otherwise, especially for those of you
who are restoring a truck. Some of them might be collectors items
too.

Here's a list of what she's got, please contact her for specific
issues:
(She can be reached at Nomoreplaytime aol.com, her name is Keri)

TRUCKIN' CHEVY TRUCKIN'
TRUCKIN' CLASSIC TRUCKS CUSTOM & CLASSIC TRUCKS
CUSTOM CLASSIC TRUCKS CUSTOM TRUCKING
HI-PERFORMANCE TRUCKING SUPER STREET TRUCKS
STREET RODDER NATIONAL RODDER
RODDER'S DIGEST HOW TO BUILD A STREET ROD
RODS & CUSTOMS HIGH PERFORMANCE RODS & CUSTOMS
CUSTOM RODDER ROD POWER
SUPER HOT RODS & CUSTOMS AMERICAN RODDER
STREET RODDER HOT ROD MECHANIX
HI-PERFORMANCE RODS RODS AND STREET MACHINES
RODDER STREET RODDING ILLUSTRATED
RODDER'S WORLD STREET AND CUSTOM RODDING
CUSTOM PAINTING CHEVROLET HIGH PERFORMANCE
POPULAR HOT RODDING HOT ROD
WILD WORLD OF STREET MACHINES
SUPER STREET MACHINES ROD ACTION
STREET MACHINES PICK-UPS AND MINI TRUCKS
STREET ROD ACTION STREET ROD PICK-UPS
FAT HOT LINE NEWS
HOT CARS CHEVY CLASSIC
CLASSIC & CUSTOM HOT TRUCK
SPORT TRUCK CUSTOM CRAFT
CUSTOM CARS ALL CHEVY
CHEVY HI-PERFORMANCE SUPER CHEVY
1001 CUSTOM & ROD IDEAS ROD & CUSTOM IDEAS
POPULAR CUSTOMS POPULAR CARS
VANS & PICK-UPS 1001 TRUCK & VAN IDEAS
SPORT TRUCKING ROD & CUSTOM

YEARBOOKS ANNUALS THE BEST OF...
COLLECTOR'S EDITIONS

This should go without saying but please remember what this
is all about and keep the Chevy bashing out of it. If you've
got a Chevy friend who can use the Chevy mags, let them know
about it.

Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts




------------------------------

From: WhtsUpDoc2 aol.com
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 14:21:47 EDT
Subject: A Good Trade?

Hey everybody, its been a little while since I've had anything to post,
but I've got a funny little story you might like. I'd like you guys'
thoughts on the matter. I was driving home the other day and decided to take
a short cut because I was running low on time. The road took me over by the
house of the in-laws of one of my brothers. They had an old truck sitting
out by the road that I estimated was about a '52 one-ton truck. I didn't
stop and look at it, but as soon as I got home, I called her to tell her that
I would really like to have the truck and ask her how much she would take for
it. Her husband wasn't home, but she said that she would talk to him when he
got home that night. She told me that she just wanted to get rid of it
because she was tired of mowing around it! I called her back and sbe told me
that the truck was mine, but her husband wanted two nanny goats in return for
the truck! So I'm still in search for two nanny goats that I really don't
want to pay much for. It looks like its going to cost me about $120 for the
two goats. Somewhat to my dismay however... the truck is actually a 1955
F-600 Custom with dual wheels that was apparently at one time a grain truck.
I'm not sure if it is even close to running or not and is in pretty rough
shape. Most of the emblems, instrument panel, etc. is in good shape though.
Do you guys think its a good deal and a good restoration project? I was
wondering if the cab was the same size as the regular pickups, then perhaps I
could use it as parts for a pickup of the same year. What do you guys think?

Jason Warner
Yukon, Oklahoma
'78 F-250 Custom 460; C-6 Auto
WhtsUpDoc2 aol.com

------------------------------

From: "Jason & Kathy Kendrick" mddc.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Trade?
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 13:54:28 -0500

He only wants two goats for a future car hualer? Better find some goats!
Jason Kendrick


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 12:04:47 -0700
From: scott ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Hot August Nights

>>>>Anyone going to Hot August Nights in Reno this year?

I live in Reno and I will definately be there.
My truck is too new to enter but I will be enjoying the show.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 17:27:17 -0600
From: Harry Vermillion verinet.com>
Subject: Re: 302 won't start

*I think you are saying that after you clean the plugs,
*you can start it once, but it dies at low RPM and
*won't restart. Are the plugs wet again? If so it is
*too rich. You may be a victim of too much fuel pump
*pressure. When you rev it the pressure blows open the
*needle valve in the carb and floods the motor. You say
*that you have an elctric pump and a mechanical pump. I
*would bypass the mechanical pump and run electric
*only. Make sure that it is rated for 5-7 lbs pressure.
*
*Dan Lee
*'53 F100
*400C-4V
*
Thanks, I had the electric disconnected, had thought of it, and I'll put
it back on the checklist.
It doesn't start once every time between drying the plugs, but when it
does its rough, smoother at high
RPM, but still rough. I don't know if the plugs get wet right away,
I'll check the next time around
(and around and around and around...)
*
*I have been following this thread. I notice that the plugs will
repeatedly
*get wet after trying to start the engine.
*I had this happen once because the wrong power valve gasket was used.
This
*allowed gas to almost run into the intake. Same simptoms you have and
would
*start but just barely and then die shortly thereafter. Very wet plugs,
all of
*the spark I could ask for and no amount of timing or carb adjustments
would
*get me anywhere.
*
*
*Hope this helps.
*
*Rollie H. Hunt
*
Something else for the checklist. I can see what you mean, and I'll
have to check.
Thanks again, I know this thing will start up sooner or later, its
probably just pissed at me
for loanin' in out to my kid and my brother :0).

--
Harry E. Vermillion
E-mail: north40 verinet.com




------------------------------

From: "Stephen Brown" centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: 302 won't start
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 16:37:42 -0700

Harry,
I had the same problem with my 71' F250 with 2-bbl 360,after a full
tune-up and
carb rebuild, it wouldn't start , just would catch every other turnover,
it did start once but ran like an old steam engine(chug..chug..chug.......)
after going through every thing I could think of (and calling my truck every
bad name in the book:-)........ I decided to take the carb
apart, I found that the carb base gasket was bad, it was soaked with gas and
swelled like it was wet cardboard(this was the gasket that came with the
re-build kit) I put a new gasket in and it started first try. Also try
looking for other vacuum leaks at the manifold.

Stephen Brown,
1971 F-250 "CUSTOM"


> > Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 06:58:37 -0600
> > From: Harry Vermillion verinet.com>
> > Subject: 302 won't start
> >
> > I've got an '70 E-200 with a 2-bbl 302 and a C4 and
> > I can't get it to
> > fire. After it started running rough go uphill and
> > later when I'd put
> > it in gear, I got into some much needed maintenance:
> >
> > Rebuilt the carb, replaced the plugs, plug
> > wires, points, condenser,
> > distributor cap, coil and the wire from the points
> > to the negative side
> > of the coil (with the resistor cable). Checked
> > through the wiring and
> > it checks out.Just won't start, barely catches..............



------------------------------

From: "glperry" fwi.com>
Subject: ATF in Manuals
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:39:25 -0500


Most all the late 80's and 90's have auto fluid or there own lube in the manuals.
I was told tolerances were closer in designs now and needed lighter oil to get
into the tight spaces. Also gives easier shifting at winter time. Even transfer cases
now have ATF in them.
"G"
G. L. Perry
Huntington, IN
54 Chevy 2-ton (driver)
50 Chevy COE (project)
MM Jet Star 3 Super (tractor)


------------------------------

From: "Keith Kubiak" <55fordf100 home.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Trade?
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 20:45:19 -0700

Yaaaahhhhhh! It sounds like a good deal!

----- Original Message -----
From: aol.com>
To: <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 11:21 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] A Good Trade?


> Hey everybody, its been a little while since I've had anything to
post,
> but I've got a funny little story you might like. I'd like you guys'
> thoughts on the matter. I was driving home the other day and decided to
take
> a short cut because I was running low on time. The road took me over by
the
> house of the in-laws of one of my brothers. They had an old truck sitting
> out by the road that I estimated was about a '52 one-ton truck. I didn't
> stop and look at it, but as soon as I got home, I called her to tell her
that
> I would really like to have the truck and ask her how much she would take
for
> it. Her husband wasn't home, but she said that she would talk to him when
he
> got home that night. She told me that she just wanted to get rid of it
> because she was tired of mowing around it! I called her back and sbe told
me
> that the truck was mine, but her husband wanted two nanny goats in return
for
> the truck! So I'm still in search for two nanny goats that I really don't
> want to pay much for. It looks like its going to cost me about $120 for
the
> two goats. Somewhat to my dismay however... the truck is actually a 1955
> F-600 Custom with dual wheels that was apparently at one time a grain
truck.
> I'm not sure if it is even close to running or not and is in pretty rough
> shape. Most of the emblems, instrument panel, etc. is in good shape
though.
> Do you guys think its a good deal and a good restoration project? I was
> wondering if the cab was the same size as the regular pickups, then
perhaps I
> could use it as parts for a pickup of the same year. What do you guys
think?
>
> Jason Warner
> Yukon, Oklahoma
> '78 F-250 Custom 460; C-6 Auto
> WhtsUpDoc2 aol.com
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the
> message.
>


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 23:20:44 -0600
From: Kirk Baillie home.com>
Subject: Rebuild advice/tips wanted

Hi guys I the 360 2V in my 74 F250 4x4 high boy is on its last legs. It
has a severe knock that has gotten worse over the last month. So my
question is since I have not had the experience of doing a engine
rebuild yet what kind of info is out there form me.

My plans are to either pull out the current one or either purchase
another 360 or 390 block and rebuild that up. I dont need any thing
monstrous but since I am at it I wouldn't mind adding a little more kick
to it. At least I want to add a 4 barrel and maybe cam.

If you could give me any tips or advice It would be greatly appreciated

------------------------------

From: "Michael White" csolutions.net>
Subject: Re: Rebuild advice/tips wanted
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 01:00:57 -0600

You might want to use the book "How to Rebuild Big-Block Ford Engines"
by Steve Christ (ISBN #0-89586-070-8). I would like to suggest that you
build the engine as a 4 bbl 390 (cast iron intake). A little extra cam,
double roller timing chain, and a set of headers would also be nice. You
might also want to have the engine professionally balanced. Have your block
hot tanked in acid and mangaflux for cracks before you rebuild.

I would be happy to sell you a 390 crankshaft & set of connecting rods
for $100 if you live nearby.

Michael
Salt Lake City, Utah

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Hi guys I the 360 2V in my 74 F250 4x4 high boy is on its last legs. It
> has a severe knock that has gotten worse over the last month. So my
> question is since I have not had the experience of doing a engine
> rebuild yet what kind of info is out there form me.
>
> My plans are to either pull out the current one or either purchase
> another 360 or 390 block and rebuild that up. I dont need any thing
> monstrous but since I am at it I wouldn't mind adding a little more kick
> to it. At least I want to add a 4 barrel and maybe cam.
>
> If you could give me any tips or advice It would be greatly appreciated


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 07:43:56 -0400
From: David Wadson air.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Rebuild advice/tips wanted

>Hi guys I the 360 2V in my 74 F250 4x4 high boy is on its last legs. It
>has a severe knock that has gotten worse over the last month. So my
>question is since I have not had the experience of doing a engine
>rebuild yet what kind of info is out there form me.
>
>My plans are to either pull out the current one or either purchase
>another 360 or 390 block and rebuild that up. I dont need any thing
>monstrous but since I am at it I wouldn't mind adding a little more kick
>to it. At least I want to add a 4 barrel and maybe cam.
>
>If you could give me any tips or advice It would be greatly appreciated

The books that I had in my aresenal when I rebuilt my 302 (my first and
only rebuild so far) were:

How to rebuild your small-block Ford by Tom Monroe - ISBN 0-912656-89-1
Not a bad book - lots of photos.

Haynes Techbook Ford Engine Overhaul Manual - ISBN 1-85010-763-7
Also a good book - lots of photos of teardown and reassembly.

Chilton's Ford Engine Overhaul Manual - ISBN 9-8019-8793-8
The thickest of the 3, again with tons of photos.

One thing I've found with the engine manuals, like the regular Haynes and
Chilton shop manuals, they sometimes seem to contradict each other and
occasionally leave stuff out. The Chilton's one, for instance, mentions
putting the crankshaft back in, but not putting on the main bearing caps.
Gee, they're kind of necessary to keep the crank from falling out when you
turn the engine back over!

It's hard to do all the measuring of bears and pistons and stuff without
the proper dial gauges, micrometers, etc. Having the tools to do it
yourself or having a good machine shop helps. I wasn't too precise with my
engine - built it pretty well stock and didn't worry too much about the
exact clearances. If anything, using the stock parts my bearing clearances
are a little too big instead of too small so I'm not worried about oil
getting where it should!

Best time-saving piece of advice...get the block hot tanked! When it's all
torn apart, don't even think about scrubbing it yourself! Take it to the
machine shop for hot tanking and get them to install the cam bearings and
the freeze plugs! The block comes back clean and shiny and the hard job of
putting in cam bearings is done for you. Same thing with the heads. Much
easier, cheaper and smarter to get them to do it if you want it to work
right the first time...


David Wadson - wadsond air.on.ca
"PS1" - 79 F100 ...ground into a million pieces.
"PS2" - 78 F100 ...currently alive and kicking.
"PS3" - 79 F150 4x4 ...now what have I gotten myself into...
Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 08:46:19 -0500
From: Steve Schaefer plastekgroup.com>
Subject: Re: Gas milage

> hey folks
>
> I have a 1977 Ford f100 351M engine with 131K miles. I get around 11mpg.
> Is this about right? Does anyone else get better gas mileage? If so what
> can I do to improve mine.
>
> Thanks,
> Joel
>

Joel,
I have a 77 F-250 Supercab with the 400 and I get about 13 mpg around town. This past weekend I pulled down 9 mpg pulling a 7500 lb load through the mountains of PA.

Steve S.
77 F-250 Supercab
76 F-350 Crew cab
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/8663/


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 10:01:08 -0400
From: William King bgnet.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Re: toploader website???

Stu,
I believe the reference was to Dan Williams, in North Carolina. Dan helped
me get through a Toploader with a mismatched extension housing. I found the
Toploader for a good price, but then discovered why (it had the wrong
extension
housing, and thus wouldn't accept a speedo gear). Dan knew what was wrong,
had the correct extension housing, and helped me out immeasurably. This guy
knows his Toploaders and isn't afraid to answer questions and chat on the
phone.

His website is: (http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://toploadertransmissions.com/toploaderinfo.htm)

I assume you're looking to put a Toploader in your 68? If you are, I
converted
my 69 F100 2wd from a three speed to a Toploader 4 speed a few years ago.
If you need any help/advice, feel free to drop a line.

Ohio Bill
1968 F100 360 2v 4 speed
1968 Torino GT 429 4v 4 speed


>Several months back someone posted a commercial website that was dedicated
>to the Ford toploader. The guy is supposed to be one of the best rebuilders
>of toploaders in the US. Anyone still have this guys URL? Anyone know
>where a big spline toploader is sitting not in use that may be for sale?
I >guess I need an FE bellhousing too.
>I am all ears and ready to gather the needed driveline components for the 68.

>Thanks

>Stu
>Nuke GM!


------------------------------

From: "Southerland, Rich" alldata.com>
Subject: Re: 77 351 Smog Stuff
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 07:27:42 -0700

I have the set of '77 Ford manuals at home. I'll check tonight when I get
home.
Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: JXS [mailto:bdijxs bridgetest.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 4:37 PM
To: Ford List (E-mail)
Subject: [61-79-list] 77 351 Smog Stuff


OK, does anyone have any suggestions on finding some literature on hooking
up all the smog stuff for a 77 F-250 4x4 (Colorado truck). It came with a
charcoal canister, and EGR valve, and several other things that appear (at
least from Clymer and Chilton) to be a "Spark Delay Valve", a "Ported Vacuum
Switch", etc. There's also a "dashpot" or something similar with a wire
coming out of the back of it.....

We're looking for a diagram of the proper hose routing to hook all this crap
up. The reason for this exersize is that it has to pass a visual inspection.
Of course, as soon as the inspection is over, this stuff will come off........


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