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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 61-79-list); Tue, 23 May 2000 12:05:41 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:05:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: 61-79-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
Reply-to: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: 61-79-list Digest V2000 #106
Precedence: bulk

==========================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1961-1979 Truck Mailing List

Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com

To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the
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==========================================================

------------------------------------
61-79-list Digest Mon, 22 May 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 106

In This Issue:
Re: drums and shoes
Re: SuperNats
C6 torque rating?
Re: swapping engine parts'78 302 to'88 5.0
Re: C6 torque rating?
E Series column swap
Re: CD factory manual for old trucks
Re: Drums & Shoes
Re: Drums & Shoes
Re: Drums & Shoes
Re: Drums & Shoes
My Van is Cursed
Re: My Van is Cursed
Re: My Van is Cursed
Supernationals request...
wasMy Van is Cursed now A SEVERE OUTRAGE!
My Van is Cursed now A SEVERE OUTRAGE!
57 F350 for sale
Re: Drums & Shoes
Re: My Van is Cursed
Re: 61-79-list
Aussie Cleveland Cylinder Heads
Re: CD factory manual for old trucks

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:01:04 -0500
Subject: Re: drums and shoes
From: John LaGrone ford-trucks.com>

on 5/22/2000 9:15 AM, wish at wish ford-trucks.net wrote:

> Are we talkin larger thickness, or larger as in actual padded surface.

Larger as in longer friction material. I don't know about your design class,
but the long shoe goes to the back. :-)

>Wish is right about the rear shoe being pulled into the drum. The pivot
>point is at the top. Dual or split piston systems supposedly do away with
>this inequity.

Duh, moment of stupidity. Of course the pivot point is on the bottom where
the self adjuster is.

>on the back because it bore more load as inertia is carrying the vehicle
>into this shoe and away from the front shoe.
>Hahahahaha, sorry John, just gotta laugh at that because your inertia is going
>to be the same since everything's all bolted together in there ...

Bolted together? I think not. The brake shoes are floating on the rubbing
block or backing plate. Anyway, this is the explanation I was given back in
the dark ages. The long shoe still goes on the back. Maybe the inertia was
the inertia of the tire/wheel/drum rotating, in which case the rear shoe
would tend to be pushed away from the rotating drum requiring more surface
area to maintain balance with the front shoe. Part of it has to do with the
pivot point and the fact that the bottom of the shoe rides closer to the
drum when the brake is released than the top does and more pressure is
applied at the top of the shoe during braking.

I have also seen systems where the front wheels each had two long shoes and
the only short shoes went on the front of the rear axle.

>I can't even think of a good example, if you use your hands and stuff on the
>outside of the tire you have to reverse it all for the inside ...

??? Me neither.

-- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" williams-net.com>
Subject: Re: SuperNats
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:19:05 -0400

If you would like to go again to a truck show in Pigeon Forge, there is
another one coming up in July. It is the 2nd Annual Grand Trucking
Nationals --held at the Grand Resort Hotel.It is held on the weekend of the
July 14th---16th. It is open to all makes & models & years of trucks. I
took my '94 Flareside last year & had a good time.
Tim Allgire
-----Original Message-----
From: EffieFrd aol.com aol.com>
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com <61-79-list ford-trucks.com>
Date: Monday, May 22, 2000 1:10 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: SuperNats


>In a message dated 5/21/00 4:13:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>garrya bellsouth.net writes:
>
><< It was great to see some old
> friends and make new ones. >>
>
>Sure was. Good to put some faces with names. And now y'all know the cool
>chic with the '65. :o) I had a blast. Wish I could have got there sooner
>than Saturday...oh well. There's always next year. :o)
>
>
>~Mel
>1965 F100
>1989 Bronco
>==========================================================
>To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
>the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the
>message.
>


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:15:20 -0700
From: "Dr. Wayne Stromberg" mail.sdsu.edu>
Subject: C6 torque rating?

Anyone know the torque rating of a stock C-6 transmission?

------------------------------

From: "Tim and Pam Allgire" williams-net.com>
Subject: Re: swapping engine parts'78 302 to'88 5.0
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:22:35 -0400

Yeah, I think somewhere around '84 they changed the size of the plugs.I
would think that a 650 carb would work much better on a 302. Save the 750
for a big block.
-----Original Message-----
From: SevnD2aol.com aol.com>
To: 61-79-listford-trucks.com <61-79-listford-trucks.com>
Date: Monday, May 22, 2000 1:38 AM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: swapping engine parts'78 302 to'88 5.0


>In a message dated 05/22/2000 12:25:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>pjmahoneynetzero.net writes:
>
><< I found someone
> who didn't use a computer to figure out what he was looking at, and he
> told me that the large plugs went in around '84 to improve heat
> rejection and reduce fouling. Is this true? >>
>
>I had a 72 302 with the larger size plugs. This engine was in a car, so I
>can't say about truck engines.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Rollie H. Hunt
>==========================================================
>To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
>the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the
>message.
>


------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" alltel.net>
Subject: Re: C6 torque rating?
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:10:47 -0400

Anyone know the torque rating of a stock C-6 transmission?
> ==========================================================
i dont know what the rating is BUT i have a friend who has been using one in
a pulling tractor for 6years now with a 460 built up in front of one and so
far NO TROUBLE it is now going behind a race ready 427 the only mods to the
tranny has been a cooler added on to it is all
so i am sure unless your pushing over 650 horses as he is you shouldnt have
any problems with one really
gordon



------------------------------

From: "Southerland, Rich" alldata.com>
Subject: E Series column swap
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:31:18 -0700

About a month back, I asked if anyone had swapped a later model column into
a 75-79 Econoline as my old one had failing bearings and the turn signal
switch had failed. My '77 E150 has cruise (which works), but no tilt. I
found a tilt column out of an '87 E150 very reasonable.

Nobody responded and I decided to go for it anyway as I figured I could
resell the column if it didn't fit. Well, it is a direct bolt in. The turn
signal/horn/cruise wiring plugged in with no modifications and everything
appears to be working 100%. I had to disable the locking steering since the
ignition switch on the '77 is in the dash and the '87 uses a column mounted
lock and switch. I snagged as much wiring as I could from the '87's
ignition and I eventually will rewire the ignition switch to the new column.

I also pirated the power windows, locks and wiring harnesses from both doors
of the '87. This old beast is getting fancy! Gonna have to take up to the
people who gave it to us last year and show them what we've done with it.
SWMBO is excited as well...

------------------------------

From: "Southerland, Rich" alldata.com>
Subject: Re: CD factory manual for old trucks
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:47:59 -0700

Anyone have one of these? Are all the volumes of the factory manuals
included? Are they full page scans?
Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Redden [mailto:reddenenter.net]
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 7:53 AM
To: 61-79-listford-trucks.com
Cc: tneasham3-cities.com
Subject: [61-79-list] CD factory manual for old trucks


Detroit Iron has them: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://216.62.60.89/detroitiron/MainFrame.htm

$50 for the '69 Ford Truck

mike


==========================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to: listarford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the
message.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:39:04 -0700
From: Marv & Marge lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Drums & Shoes

Wish wrote:
> Except the primary is the smaller one, and they're labelled as such ...

As Ed McMahon used to say: "You are correct, Sir." I got the terms primary
and secondary reversed. The larger shoe is the secondary. Everything else I
stand behind. The larger shoe goes on the rear side in the vast majority of
drum brake installations that are anchored at the top of the backing plate.

> As for "anchored" that is something I've never seen, apparently all the one's I
> work with are different than the one's you guys are talkin about as mine have
> all had a pin on the bottom that acted as a pivot and then the wheel cylinder
> at the top had 2 levers on it, one for either shoe, and they both moved

The pin on the bottom that acted as a pivot appearently is the "anchor" pin.
That would make the front shoe the anchored one, and require that the larger shoe
be in the front. That is a rather unusual configuration, however. Can you tell
us the application? And I'm not sure what you mean by the hydraulic cylinder
having two "levers".

>(don't ever do that with the drum off either!)

You mean push the brake pedal with the drum off? That's the best way to get the
wheel cylinders apart if you're going to hone them for new cup seals.

Different strokes.......

-Marv-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:39:08 -0700
From: Marv & Marge lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Drums & Shoes

Wish wrote:
> Except the primary is the smaller one, and they're labelled as such ...

As Ed McMahon used to say: "You are correct, Sir." I got the terms primary
and secondary reversed. The larger shoe is the secondary. Everything else I
stand behind. The larger shoe goes on the rear side in the vast majority of
drum brake installations that are anchored at the top of the backing plate.

> As for "anchored" that is something I've never seen, apparently all the one's I
> work with are different than the one's you guys are talkin about as mine have
> all had a pin on the bottom that acted as a pivot and then the wheel cylinder
> at the top had 2 levers on it, one for either shoe, and they both moved

The pin on the bottom that acted as a pivot appearently is the "anchor" pin.
That would make the front shoe the anchored one, and require that the larger shoe
be in the front. That is a rather unusual configuration, however. Can you tell
us the application? And I'm not sure what you mean by the hydraulic cylinder
having two "levers".

>(don't ever do that with the drum off either!)

You mean push the brake pedal with the drum off? That's the best way to get the
wheel cylinders apart if you're going to hone them for new cup seals.

Different strokes.......

-Marv-

------------------------------

From: "Bill Beyer" pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Drums & Shoes
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:35:30 -0700


----- Original Message -----
From: Marv & Marge lafn.org>
To: <61-79-listford-trucks.com>
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 1:39 PM
Subject: [61-79-list] Re: Drums & Shoes


> The pin on the bottom that acted as a pivot appearently is the "anchor"
pin.
> That would make the front shoe the anchored one, and require that the
larger shoe
> be in the front. That is a rather unusual configuration, however. Can
you tell
> us the application? And I'm not sure what you mean by the hydraulic
cylinder
> having two "levers".

hmm...all the drum systems I've worked on have the cylinder at the top with
2 180 deg rods opposed to each other that fit into slots on the shoes which
are fastened to the backing plate by pins with springs & clips about 1/3 of
the way up from the bottom. I think this is what wish was describing...

> >(don't ever do that with the drum off either!)
>
> You mean push the brake pedal with the drum off? That's the best way to
get the
> wheel cylinders apart if you're going to hone them for new cup seals.

I think he meant with the shoes on if you ever want to try to get the drum
back on without disassembling, adjusting and reassembling...





------------------------------

From: "Erik Marquez" alaska.com>
Subject: Re: Drums & Shoes
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:48:58 -0800

>
>> As for "anchored" that is something I've never seen, apparently all the
one's I
>> work with are different than the one's you guys are talkin about as mine
have
>> all had a pin on the bottom that acted as a pivot and then the wheel
cylinder
>> at the top had 2 levers on it, one for either shoe, and they both moved
>
>The pin on the bottom that acted as a pivot appearently is the "anchor"
pin.
>That would make the front shoe the anchored one, and require that the
larger shoe
>be in the front. That is a rather unusual configuration, however. Can you
tell
>us the application? And I'm not sure what you mean by the hydraulic
cylinder
>having two "levers".
>
Application, is every 1/2 t ford truck and bronco I have ever worked on.
All have had the wheel cylinder at the top and the pivot point at the
bottom. I believe the "levers" he was referring to are the pins that go in
the ends of the wheel cylinders, and actuate the brake shoe it self.. One
end is rounded and fits against the wheel cylinder piston, the other end has
a sort of t-shape to it, the "t' fits in to an opposing grove in the shoe.

Clear as mud?

Erik Marquez
bronco78alaska.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.home.gci.net/~bronco78
Home of the BB decal


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:42:38 -0400
From: "Don Haring, Jr." fedora.net>
Subject: My Van is Cursed

Hello All,
As always, I have good news and bad news:

GOOD: I was able to free up the seized kingpin on my Falcon Club Wagon. I
took the whole axle to a shop and freed it up using a high-pressure lube
gun and some heat. Considering I do not want to spend any money on the van
it was a good solution because I honestly don't think it needs new kingpins
just yet. I was happy to free it up.

BAD: I don't have the van anymore.

(I'll let that sink in a second)

I got home from teaching today and where my van had been parked, up on jack
stands, there is now a green Chevy truck. No, I don't own it. My van was
towed by the city -- sans front axle! #$%!! I called the police and they
do not know where it is. It had to have been towed for obvious reasons, but
no one knows where it is and the earliest it will be in the "system" is
tomorrow morning. Guess who's going to be miserable tonight?

I'm most worried because there has been a city-wide "Abandoned Vehicle"
task force, created by the new major, John Street. His policy -- tow 1000
cars a day for 40 days. My van was apparently towed because it was up on
jack stands, but it had correct plates, stickers, etc. There have been
reports on the news of cars being towed accidentally, but owners have very
little hope of getting the cars back. Why? Because most are crushed within
a day.

(I'll let that sink in, too.)

So for anyone that cares, please cross your fingers, say a prayer, do a
dance, or whatever you do, to hope that my vehicle still exists. I won't
know until morning.

For now, the police officer who showed up was courteous enough to report it
stolen, so I have a claim in. I'll let everyone know how it turns out.

-don

--
Don in Philadelphia #8142, Editor/Internet Director, Keystone Chapter FCA
66 Falcon Deluxe Club Wagon (daily driver)
61 Falcon Futura | Vespa and Lambretta scooters



------------------------------

From: "Southerland, Rich" alldata.com>
Subject: Re: My Van is Cursed
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 17:46:52 -0700

And I thought California was the home of old car hating government
enviro-nazis! That is simply too much! 1000 cars per day? That's one car
about every 70 seconds! Was the vehicle parked on private property? Sounds
like the mayor could have some lawsuits on his hands, what with no apparent
redemption window. Is everything crushed or do they pick and choose what
gets smushed or not? Glad I don't live there! Best wishes for the safe
return of your vehicle. Raise hell!

I got home from teaching today and where my van had been parked, up on jack
stands, there is now a green Chevy truck. No, I don't own it. My van was
towed by the city -- sans front axle! #$%!! I called the police and they
do not know where it is. It had to have been towed for obvious reasons, but
no one knows where it is and the earliest it will be in the "system" is
tomorrow morning. Guess who's going to be miserable tonight?

I'm most worried because there has been a city-wide "Abandoned Vehicle"
task force, created by the new major, John Street. His policy -- tow 1000
cars a day for 40 days. My van was apparently towed because it was up on
jack stands, but it had correct plates, stickers, etc. There have been
reports on the news of cars being towed accidentally, but owners have very
little hope of getting the cars back. Why? Because most are crushed within
a day.

Don in Philadelphia #8142, Editor/Internet Director, Keystone Chapter FCA
66 Falcon Deluxe Club Wagon (daily driver)
61 Falcon Futura | Vespa and Lambretta scooters

------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" alltel.net>
Subject: Re: My Van is Cursed
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 23:02:45 -0400


>
> I'm most worried because there has been a city-wide "Abandoned Vehicle"
> task force, created by the new major, John Street. His policy -- tow 1000
> cars a day for 40 days
===========================================================
sounds to me like its time for a RE-CALL ELECTION there from what i know
setting on jack stands for 1 day does not meet the standards for abandoned
vehicles
what they done is PLAIN OUTRIGHT THEFT and you can bet if they are being
crushed within 24 hrs some one is getting a BIG KICKBACK
gordon


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 00:51:28 -0400
From: Joe Hartwell vt.edu>
Subject: Supernationals request...

Hello everyone! As I'm reading my email with all of these posts about F-100 Supernationals, I'm wishing I could have gone and seen some of those great Ford trucks...and then it hits me: someone has had to have taken a camera and have a scanner to scan with. So, if I may make a humble request, could y'all scan a few cool pics and send a few my way? I just got my certification to teach Motorcycle Safety Foundation courses, and I taught at a community college in Roanoke, VA this past weekend. If y'all could send the pics to hartwellvt.edu (yep, that's virginia tech), I'd certainly appreciate it! Thanks again, and keep truckin!

Joe Hartwell
1988 Ford Ranger
1968 Ford F-100
1997 Harley-Davidson 883 Sportster



------------------------------

From: JUMPINFORDaol.com
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 01:16:13 EDT
Subject: wasMy Van is Cursed now A SEVERE OUTRAGE!

I think this is cause for serious alarm. I hope your Van finds its way home
safe and sound. However, I'd definitely do some checking, as in Vegas the
city has to give you 72 hrs to move the vehicle, and notice is done via a
sticker on the windshield. Even if you dont have a 72 hr law, Im sure at
least 24 hrs have to be givin, or otherwise the city could just tow any
vehicle anybody considered unsightly, even if the damned motor was still
warm! Hell, from the sounds of it they could watch you hook up to it with
you in it, and drive off when you step out to find out what is going on. I
honestly cannot belive our country is slipping to this form of legalized
theft. I also want you to do me a favor, as you may have a better chance at
this than me, but I want an address to your mayor, be it email, snail mail,
or fax. I will address this concern personally, as I am truly outraged by
this blatant abuse of power. We cannot allow this to happen, as it can
spread far and wide. Next thing I know I may hear Tweety was crushed. Why?
Because mall security thought the paint was to faded to belong to anyone with
money to be spent in a mall. Im sorry to rant and rave like this. I had to
get it out. Please, get me an address, post it here to FTE, and I'll bet we
make a difference in your mayors small, feeble, !#$%, mind

Darrell & Tweety
"Fight for the cause!"

------------------------------

From: "G & J Boling" alltel.net>
Subject: My Van is Cursed now A SEVERE OUTRAGE!
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 03:18:02 -0400

you know what now that i think of it more maybe the AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES
UNION should be contacted about all this
NOW i know WHY PA. is called the COMMUNIST STATE
GORDON


------------------------------

From: "Terry L. Rahn" jvlnet.com>
Subject: 57 F350 for sale
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 05:44:21 -0500

On Sunday I was selling at a swap meet in Waukesha, WI. One of the sellers
had a F350 for sale with a 60 parts truck for $1500. It runs and sounds
great. I got the following info if anyone is interested:
57 F350 yellow
272 4speed
8x19.5 tires new
9' box
Parts truck:
60 F150
southern cab and front fenders
no drivetrain, this is a rolling chassis

This is a package deal and includes the tow bar for $1500
Contact Scott Brodell
N4549 Hwy. 109
Iron Ridge, WI
414-625-3412 (the area codes have recently changed and it may be 262 now)

Terry L. Rahn
78 E250 Quadravan


------------------------------

From: "wish" ford-trucks.net>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:20:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Drums & Shoes

>hmm...all the drum systems I've worked on have the cylinder at the top with

>2 180 deg rods opposed to each other that fit into slots on the shoes which

>are fastened to the backing plate by pins with springs & clips about 1/3 of

>the way up from the bottom. I think this is what wish was describing...
>
>> >(don't ever do that with the drum off either!)
>>
>> You mean push the brake pedal with the drum off? That's the best way to

>get the
>> wheel cylinders apart if you're going to hone them for new cup seals.
>
>I think he meant with the shoes on if you ever want to try to get the drum

>back on without disassembling, adjusting and reassembling...
>

Thanks guys, I appreciate those of you who can get what I mean from what I say
;) It was one of those days yesterday and I couldn't get all my thoughts in
order enough to be comprehendable apparently ... you guys got it right on though,
I did mean just the 2 push pieces from the wheel cylinder, and that the drum
is a pain to put on if the springs dont' come flying out ..

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "wish" ford-trucks.net>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:26:15 GMT
Subject: Re: My Van is Cursed

>As always, I have good news and bad news:
>
Yikes, glad you got it freed up, but sorry the truck is gone ... hopefully by
now you've got it all sorted out and are happily (grudginly ?) puttering around
in your van :)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com

------------------------------

From: "Harry Lewis" hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 61-79-list
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:50:43 EDT





>Is there any adapters or anyone who has installed an automatic overdrive
>into a 1979 4WD F-150 with the NP205 transfer case. My truck has the 351M
>and am curious if this has ever been done either with this engine or any
>other engine. Also, anyone swapped a late model fuel injected motor,
>transmission and transfer case into a '79 4wd F-150? I'm just thinking
>about it.

Harry.
________________________________________________________________________


------------------------------

From: "Bill Beyer" pacifier.com>
Subject: Aussie Cleveland Cylinder Heads
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 07:50:23 -0700

I've found a source for Australian Cleveland cylinder heads. They are $175
for a pair of bare cleaned & magged heads plus shipping. If anyone is
interested please email me off list:

bbeyerpacifier.com

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:05:18 -0400
From: Ted Wnorowski ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: CD factory manual for old trucks

At 12:47 PM 5/22/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Anyone have one of these? Are all the volumes of the factory manuals
>included? Are they full page scans?
>Rich

I have one for my truck and one for my wife's '69 GTO. They are
exact repros of the factory manuals on CD. Well worth it! If you have any
questions e-mail the guy. He was very friendly and responded quickly.


Ted Wnorowski
Flat Rock, OH
' 64 F-250
352 transplant
4 speed
' 63 F-100
parts truck

W/more kidney stones in tow

------------------------------

End of 61-79-list Digest V2000 #106
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