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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 61-79-list); Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:30:32 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:30:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: 61-79-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
Reply-to: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: 61-79-list Digest V2000 #1
Precedence: bulk

==========================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1961-1979 Truck Mailing List

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------------------------------------
61-79-list Digest Tue, 08 Feb 2000 Volume: 2000 Issue: 001

In This Issue:
Re: timing gears
Intro
Re: Intro
Re: 61-79-list Digest V1 #2003
2 wheel power steering box's
vibration
Re: Hood hinges
Re: timing gears
Re: 2 wheel power steering box's
Re: BRAKES! Residual or check valve for disk bra
Re: BRAKES! Proportioning valve stuff
Re: Door panels
Re: vibration
Re: Intro
Re: BRAKES! Proportioning valve stuff
Re: BRAKES! Proportioning valve stuff
Re: BRAKES! Proportioning valve stuff
Re: BRAKES! Proportioning valve stuff
Vin decoders??
Re: Intro

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:58:36 -0800
From: Jason Derra internetcds.com>
Subject: Re: timing gears

Just buy a timing chain and gearset for a 72 and older 429/460 at any parts
store. Or get a multi keyway, adjustable gear set and degree your cam.
Jason

DWeaver232 aol.com wrote:

> Before the list went down there was an auction for an early (68?) lower
> timing gear for a 429. The seller stated that gear would increase the power
> of the later 460. He stated that the cam timing was retarded in the later
> engines through the crank to pass emissions. He also stated that replacing
> this gear in a later engine may cause it to fail an E-test. I have heard this
> before about other ford engines.
>
> Questions: Is this true and anyone have experience with this and are these
> early gear still available someplace?
>
> Thanks
> Terry Weaver
> 78 F350 SC
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the
> message.




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:57:28 -0600
From: Mike Schwall pop.flash.net>
Subject: Intro

I joined the the list a couple days ago and decided to introduce
myself. My name is Mike Schwall. I;ve been on thos list a while back, as
well as other lists run my Ken Payne (BTW, good work Ken, looks good). I'm
23 and from San Antonio, TX and recently moved from there to Oklahoma for a
job. Actually two jobs. I had an offer for a job with Veridian
Engineering at Tinker AFB in Oklahoma City as an electronics technician
. I would be working on robots that inspect jet engine parts using Eddy
Currents. I also had an offer from AT&T to be a sweep technician working
with fiber optics in Salt Lake City, UT. Both are excellent, but I settled
with the Veridian job.

I am college educated with two degrees and working for a third - a BS in
Computer Engineering at OU. Will jump into that this Fall (new job is
paying for it, yeahh). The two degrees I have are both Associates degrees,
one in communications equipment (fiber optics, satellite and microwave
communications and computer networks, as well as radio transmitters), the
other as computer/electronics repair technician.

I've been around engines since I was a kid learning from my dad who was a
mechanic and did some racing as a teenager back in the day. I've built up
only Ford engines since I came from a Ford family. Built several oval
track and dirt track engines and one drag engine. Nothing major, just
friends having some fun. No big time race team or anything like that. Won
races though. Never raced "officially" myself, never had the money for it

I am also a webmaster of a Ford web site, www.fordfan.org (soon to be
www.fordfan.com). It's going through a major growth spurt, soon to be
unveiled.

Hmm, just about all I can think of at the moment. Some of you will
probably remember me (hey, stop crying, it's not that bad.. ;-) I look
forward to learning more and sharing what I know to help others. Got the
money, got the tools, even got a shop to work in, just need a project
motor... Always wanted to start that 351x project...

Mike




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:31:58 -0500
From: Ken Payne ford-trucks.com>
Subject: Re: Intro

At 10:57 PM 2/8/00 -0600, you wrote:
>I joined the the list a couple days ago and decided to introduce myself. My name is Mike Schwall. I;ve been on thos list a while back, as well as other lists run my Ken Payne (BTW, good work Ken, looks good).

Whoah.... I remember you! Its been a while!

>I am also a webmaster of a Ford web site, www.fordfan.org (soon to be www.fordfan.com). It's going through a major growth spurt, soon to be unveiled.

Didn't know that was your site. FTE is still growing in leaps and bounds.
We had a 10% jump in traffic between Jan 1 and Jan 30th. Since the
new server came on line, a 30% jump in daily traffic (I guess the site
has gotten faster during peak!). Considering that the chat and search
on the site are temporarily down, that's quite an improvement!

Welcome back and I hope fordfan.com is properous!
Ken Payne





------------------------------

From: A61fordtruck aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:31:11 EST
Subject: Re: 61-79-list Digest V1 #2003

In a message dated 02/07/2000 9:41:21 PM EST, listar ford-trucks.com writes:

<< IRS ADVICE

I am looking to install an IRS under my truck. Has anyone here done anything
like this? I am thinking of using an IRS from a T-bird and maybe using the
stock truck springs. Any advice on widths and such? >>


yea, there have been times i'd like to haved "installed" the IRS under my
truck as well!!

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:31:26 -0800
From: John Lord home.com>
Subject: 2 wheel power steering box's

I was able to sucsessfully use the most common 2 wheel drive ford
steering box to convert my old 4x4 and i knew it leaked. I just wanted
to be sure i could do it before i spent any money.

Does anyone have a line on rebuild kits?

It seems at this point all i can find is the sector shaft seal and the
pump seal, but my leak is on the input shaft and i thought it would be
best to rebuild it. I have rebuild box's before and this is the first
time i have had a hard time finding a complete kit, even from my local
Ford dealer.


------------------------------

From: "Phil & Debi" stargate.net>
Subject: vibration
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:50:11 -0500

I have a vibration in my 79 F250. It is in the motor when at a fast idle to
about 2500 rpm. above or below that it disappears. It is a 400, I replaced
the plugs and wires, ran a compression test, They all read between 125 to
135, is that a good reading? couldnt find any specs for it anywhere. I tore
the front of the engine apart and have some excessive play in the timing
chain, could that possibly be the cause of my vibration? anything else I
should check while I have it apart?

Phil Beattie
66 F100
70 F100
79 F250 4x4
91 F150 4x4
www.geocities.com/imstobu


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 22:16:49 -0800
From: Don Grossman pacific.net>
Subject: Re: Hood hinges

Mike Pacheco wrote:
>
> I have a question I'm hoping the list can answer. Have a friend that is
> having his vehicle painted, well they removed the hood and hinges which is
> fine. Then they removed the springs from the hinges and can't seem to put
> them back on. The three stooges had 3 guys wrestling with it... can you
> help.
>
> Mike in Burien

What they are going to have to do first is put the hinges back on the
truck so that they aren't gona go anywhere while they monkey around with
the springs. The easiest way that I have seen is to get a piece of pipe
that will just fit inside the eye of the spring. What you do is hook
one end of the spring to the hinge, put the pipe through the other end
and onto the stud on the hinge. Ya make sure the pipe you get will fit
over the stud. I think I used a piece of thin wall fence pipe. Then
you just pry the spring on. Think of it as a brake spring only bigger.

Laters

Don Grossman

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 04:09:19 -0500
From: "G.T. Herpich" bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: timing gears

Don't bid on it. If you change it you will need a set anyway and it can
be purchased anywhere. In '73 Ford retarded the cam 8 (I believe)
degrees to make the engine emissions legal. This had a big effect on
performance and I've heard you can gain 35 hp and a load of low end
torque by going to the earlier straight up gear. I can tell you that
you'll notice the power big time because I did this to my '73 Merc
wagon. You will also see a big improvement in gas mileage. You can tell
if you got the correct gear by the timing mark. The one you want has the
mark directly above the key way, the retarded gear has it a few degrees
off.

George

DWeaver232 aol.com wrote:
>
> Before the list went down there was an auction for an early (68?) lower
> timing gear for a 429. The seller stated that gear would increase the power
> of the later 460. He stated that the cam timing was retarded in the later
> engines through the crank to pass emissions. He also stated that replacing
> this gear in a later engine may cause it to fail an E-test. I have heard this
> before about other ford engines.
>
> Questions: Is this true and anyone have experience with this and are these
> early gear still available someplace?
>
> Thanks
> Terry Weaver
> 78 F350 SC
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the
> message.

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: 2 wheel power steering box's
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 06:01:15 -0500

I got one for the bronco from NAPA. No one sells the hard parts but the
gaskets and seals were in a kit for $10.

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>I was able to sucsessfully use the most common 2 wheel drive ford
>steering box to convert my old 4x4 and i knew it leaked. I just wanted
>to be sure i could do it before i spent any money.
>
>Does anyone have a line on rebuild kits?

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: BRAKES! Residual or check valve for disk bra
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 06:45:34 -0500

George, the proportioning valve "portion" of the stock proportioning valve
is for the rear brake "proportioning" and is simply controlled by spring
pressure like the willwood unit but there is a valve the limits back flow of
fluid in the front in that same unit. I don't know it's official name but
without it you will have mush for brakes. I spent a year changing every
part in my system including bypassing the proportioning valve (ran all solid
lines with no valves) and adding a willwood unit in the rear with the stock
valve bypassed to no avail. The instant I installed a new factory
proportioning valve made for disk brakes I had brakes, solid, firm, hard
brakes for the first time since I owned it. I disassembled the old one and
there is a valve there which goes only one way easily and very hard the
other. Call it any name you like but without that valve your disk brakes
will not work right......not on a 78 truck anyway. One way to test this is
to attempt to reverse pressure bleed the front calipers. If you don't pull
the pin on the proportioning valve you can't get any fluid past it. I was
able to do this on my old one but not the new one. All the evidence in my
experience with this problem indicates to me that this valve was to blame
for all my woes.

Newer vehicles have some other way of handling it since they don't use a
separate proportioning valve and some day I will understand that too but for
now I can say without question that that valve has to be on a 78 truck for
the brakes to work correctly :-) When I say correctly I mean so that when
you push the pedal, anywhere, anytime, as often as you like......it moves
about 1" or so and comes up hard like a brick and the truck
stops.......without pumping them.....consistantly, every time.......

I still have an air leak so they only stay hard for a few days at this point
but I know I can at least get them that way for a day or two with this valve
where before they "never" got there for even a few seconds, ever. There
really is a method to this madness :-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>The only thing holding the calipers "locked" in place is the fact that
>there is no return spring. The purpose of the prop valve is to
>limit the
>pressure to the rear drum brakes because they, being self energizing,

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: BRAKES! Proportioning valve stuff
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 07:16:24 -0500

The spring is for the rear proportioning valve part of the assy. The rubber
is it's own spring and simply deforms to allow fluid past in one direction
but deforms with much more effort in the other direction. The pin is
attached to a plastic part in the diaphram and simply deforms the rubber to
allow fluid past. Seems like there was a small spring on the pin side to
keep the rubber against the seat, can't remember now for sure but the basic
design uses deformation of the rubber as the means to open it, not the
spring as near as I could tell. The spring basically controlled the pin
mechanism to allow for an additional, "mechanical" means to open it for
bleeding or so it appeared to me.

Since I don't have access to any engineering data on this I can only guess
at the design parameters but it appears that this valve may be designed to
not allow any back flow except, as you said, what gets past in the process
of closing the valve which may be all that's needed to give it the right
clearances on the pads and rotors etc.. We're all just guessing here so
suffice it to say that the valve does prevent "excessive" back flow to
maintain a certain proximity of the pads to the rotors at all times. How it
does it I can't say but I can say without any reservation that it does and
has to be there for proper operation of disk brakes.

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>In the diagram there is a spring there isn't there ? I
>thought that's what
>the windings were there ?? It would have to be spring loaded
>otherwise it
>would not necessarily return after slamming the brakes on ... makes me

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Door panels
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 07:28:34 -0500

Every man, woman and child on this list should run down to Sears and get the
proper tool for panel removal. After 25 years of struggling and damaging
panels with all manner of flat tools I finally went and did it and I am ONE
HAPPY CAMPER!!!! It's cheap and works like a charm and also works on such
things as the rubber fender protectors you have to remove to work on shocks,
wire looms stuck in the fender wells and AOD tranny looms etc.. Get the one
with the bent end and with two sizes of slots in the end, you won't regret
it. Like a hammer or flat screw driver I have used this tool a million
times since I got it and not always for the designed purpose, it is one
handy, dandy tool to have :-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>> How do I remove the door panels to put new speakers
>> in there, or are there other suggestions for good speaker
>> locations?
>
>Take the armrest/pull the door closed handle part and the
>window crank off, and pry the panel off carefully with a flat
>screwdriver.

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: vibration
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 07:39:00 -0500

I wish I knew the answer to that one myself. Mine is vibrating so that the
faster you run it, especially in the lower gears the scarier it gets. Feels
like main bearings but my pressure is still good....or a flywheel balance
thing or tranny input bearings or ........

I'm just going to wait till something breaks and fix it......

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>I have a vibration in my 79 F250. It is in the motor when at a
>fast idle to
>about 2500 rpm. above or below that it disappears. It is a
>400

------------------------------

From: prozell oaielectronics.com (OAI Electronics: Paul Rozell)
Subject: Re: Intro
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 07:47:04 -0600

Mike,
Glad to have you on the list. I am also glad to see that someone else from
(living in) Oklahoma is on the list. I am however in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I
currently own a 65 F100 460 C6 combination. I am also in the process of
trying to obtain a 66 F100 shortwide. Once again welcome to the list.

Paul
65 F100 460 C6


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 08:37:16 -0500
From: James Oxley thecore.com>
Subject: Re: BRAKES! Proportioning valve stuff

Peters, Gary (G.R.) wrote:
>
We're all just guessing here so
> suffice it to say that the valve does prevent "excessive" back flow to
> maintain a certain proximity of the pads to the rotors at all times.
TSM sells these residual valves in 2 and 10 PSI ranges. One of these
days I have to plumb one into my rear disks and gut the prop part of
main valve to get full pressure to the rear.

OX

------------------------------

From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: BRAKES! Proportioning valve stuff
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 08:34:28 -0600

> TSM sells these residual valves in 2 and 10 PSI ranges. One of these
> days I have to plumb one into my rear disks and gut the prop part of
> main valve to get full pressure to the rear.
>
> OX


Hey Ox, I'll trade you a stock distribution block for a prop. valve ;)

Actually if you want full pressure back there, just plumb around the prop.
valve, mine's got nothing at all for resid. pressure in it ... 'course that
could also be the problem with mine too I guess ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 09:49:27 -0500
From: James Oxley thecore.com>
Subject: Re: BRAKES! Proportioning valve stuff

William S. Hart wrote:
>
> > TSM sells these residual valves in 2 and 10 PSI ranges. One of these
> > days I have to plumb one into my rear disks and gut the prop part of
> > main valve to get full pressure to the rear.
> >
> > OX
>
> Hey Ox, I'll trade you a stock distribution block

Whats that??

> for a prop. valve ;)

Well, mine's bad, it has no residual presssure for front brakes, like
gary's was. What I did was extend rod coming out of booster. Makes the
brake pedal go to floor the first couple times and brake light come on
after truck sits for a couple days. Also eats up pads good (especially
rears) as they are always dragging. BUT, after the inital couple pumps,
the brakes are right there and I mean NO travel, hard as a rock and work
awsome. Very important when your trying to stop 800 lbs worth of tires
coming down a steep hill or during panick stops 60 MPH. Biggest
drawback is that once in a while they heat up real good and lock up so I
can't get over 30 MPH with it floored, oops!!!. Driving through a nice
deep puddle usually takes care of that. I highly recommend not doing
this on a street rig :-)

> Actually if you want full pressure back there, just plumb around the prop.

I gutted it on my capri when I did rear disk, worked good.

> valve, mine's got nothing at all for resid. pressure in it ...

For front you mean, how do you know?

> 'course that could also be the problem with mine too I guess ...

Prob, I've never driven a 70's Ford truck that had a good hard pedal.

OX

------------------------------

From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: BRAKES! Proportioning valve stuff
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:35:16 -0600

> > valve, mine's got nothing at all for resid. pressure in it ...
>
> For front you mean, how do you know?
>

I mean anywhere, I've got drums at all 4 corners now ...

> > 'course that could also be the problem with mine too I guess ...
>
> Prob, I've never driven a 70's Ford truck that had a good hard pedal.
>

well I guess I've got a heck of a challenge in front of me then :)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Vin decoders??
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:40:48 -0500

Ok, this has been said but I didn't keep track because I wasn't interested
but now I am!! I tried Mike Masse's decoder for my 93 Aerostar and it
didn't work....is there a free web site that I can quickly decode a vin for
this?

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 10:32:46 -0600
From: Mike Schwall pop.flash.net>
Subject: Re: Intro

At 07:47 AM 2/9/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>Mike,
>Glad to have you on the list. I am also glad to see that someone else from
>(living in) Oklahoma is on the list. I am however in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I
>currently own a 65 F100 460 C6 combination. I am also in the process of
>trying to obtain a 66 F100 shortwide. Once again welcome to the list.....


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