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Received: with LISTAR (v0.128a; list 61-79-list); Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:51:49 -0500 (EST)
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:51:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Ford Truck Enthusiasts List Server ford-trucks.com>
To: 61-79-list digest users ford-trucks.com>
Reply-to: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: 61-79-list Digest V1 #2004
Precedence: bulk

==========================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts 1961-1979 Truck Mailing List

Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com

To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the subject of the
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==========================================================

------------------------------------
61-79-list Digest Mon, 07 Feb 2000 Volume: 01 Issue: 2004

In This Issue:
Re: Speaker Size for 71 F100
Re: Clutch pedal question
Re: 429 in a '65 F-100
Re: BRAKES! setup part 2
Re: listar filtering problems
Ford V8 workshop
Dad's new (1979) truck
Re: listar filtering problems
Re: Clutch pedal question
Re: BRAKES! setup part 2
Re: FRAME PAINTING
Re: Dad's new (1979) truck, Steering
Re: IRS advice
Re: Dad's new (1979) truck, Drive shaft
Re: Dad's new (1979) truck, hood
Re: Dad's new (1979) truck, choke
On being a Dad
BRAKES! setup
Re: Ford V8 workshop
Re: On being a Dad
BRAKES!!
BRAKES!!
Re: BRAKES! setup part 2
List is great
Re: 67 Restore Project
Re: 429 in a '65 F-100
groveling to Ken and list members
Re: 351M-400 magazine article
steering wheel resto
Re: BRAKES! setup part 2
Re: BRAKES! setup part 2

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 03:50:43 -0500
From: "G.T. Herpich" bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Speaker Size for 71 F100

I believe it's 5X7 but it doesn't really matter. There is a peculiar
frame integrated into it and it would take some major fabricating to
adapt a standard speaker. I repaired mine with some RTV since it only
had a small tear.

George


Tim Bowman wrote:
>
> Does anyone know the actual size of the factory speaker in a 71 F100?
>
> I need to replace mine but I don't want to pull the radio and then
> determine the speaker size. Besides the factory AM-FM is a pretty tight
> fight in there.
>
> --
> Tim Bowman
> Burien, WA
> tkbowman uswest.net
>
> ==========================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to: listar ford-trucks.com with
> the words "unsubscribe 61-79-list" in the body of the
> message.

------------------------------

From: SHill48337 aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 20:43:15 EST
Subject: Re: Clutch pedal question

In a message dated 2/6/00 1:19:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gizmo phonewave.net writes:

<< his time I'm replacing the flywheel also,
cause when I did the last clutch job on it, the flywheel had a bunch of
surface cracks and the teeth were showing some chipping, that and I
don't know when it was or if it ever was replaced. >>

You may know all of this but, here goes anyway. The ring gear on the
flywheel is replaceable. Any good machine shop can install a new gear and
resurface the flywheel. $20 for the ring gear and installation, $40 for
resurfacing. There is a place here in town that will resurface for $32 if
you buy the clutch from them. Thought I would toss that out since I have
been down that road a few times.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460

------------------------------

From: SHill48337aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 23:14:23 EST
Subject: Re: 429 in a '65 F-100

In a message dated 2/7/00 1:55:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
prozelloaielectronics.com writes:

<< 429 and 460 are the same in every way externally. L&L makes mounts for
this
> application as does Advance Adapters and at least one other company I
can't
> think of right now. >>
If you would like to pay less, go to your NAPA Store and get a set for a 1970
Torino with a 429. Will work as well as the L&L and only cost around $20 and
they are available.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972

------------------------------

From: dracopacifier.com
Subject: Re: BRAKES! setup part 2
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 23:17:58 -0800 (PST)

wish wrote:
> Thoughts on that, as the guy used really long tubing to do this job
> and there's a loop in it I'd like to take out...

I think these loops are there because the MC is mounted to the cab
and the other end of the line is essentially mounted to the frame.
With the flexing that goes on between the cab and frame, I think you
want the loops in there. I bent my brake lines around a soup can to
make the loops which was probably overkill because the lines cross
horizontally under the MC before going down to the proportioning
valve anyway.

> has anyone found a replacement brake hose for a D44 front end ?
> The kind with the axle vent holding the axle side of things and a
> nice square fitting on the other end that bolts to the frame ???

Wait a minute. On the rear axle the block is held on by the vent.
On the front there is a bracket that bolts to the top of the
differential case and the vent is seperate. I looked all over for
the line you are talking about and it is simply not available. The
line is different for drum and disk brakes because with disk brakes
it attaches directly to the proportioning valve after going through
a hole in the frame where a clip holds it in place. I bought a
disk brake one, made an L-bracket to hold the end of the line, bolted
it to the frame right where the original one was, and added a short
piece of line so it would reach the proportioning valve which I
mounted above the frame using a bracket from an 80's truck. Have
fun. :)


Mark in Southwest Washington
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacifier.com/~draco/Truck.html
--
'74 F-100 Ranger XLT 4X4


------------------------------

From: "Jerry Godsey" prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: listar filtering problems
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 00:53:03 -0800

I'm using Outlook Express 5.0 and I had to set up a new Message Rule in my
tools menu. IF you need help, let me know.
Blessings,
Jerry Godsey
www.geocities.com/heartland/meadows/4275


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 00:01:03 -0900
From: "Matthew Schumacher" 7x.com>
Subject: Ford V8 workshop

Does anyone know where the ford V8 workshop went to?

I have it bookmarked at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.wrljet.com/engines/ but the site
doesn't respond anymore.

Thanks,

schu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 04:47:54 -0500
From: Joe Hartwell vt.edu>
Subject: Dad's new (1979) truck

Hey guys, it's been a while since I've posted...not much progress on my 1968 F-100 (college and work monopolize my time!), but thanks for the advice...I'm gonna get around to fixing the horn and back-up light switch one of these weekends!

But Dad just got a new truck (new to him, it's a 1979 F-150), and there are a few things we need to work out. I thought I'd present the problems to you guys, I know y'all really know your Fords!

1.) The steering is awful. They (Dad and the seller) seem to think it's a "u-joint" in the steering assembly about to come out. Does this seem right? I mean, you are constantly steering back and forth to keep it straight, and there's tons of play.

2.) The hood sticks up a little high in the back near the cowl (maybe an inch), but you can push it down with your hand and the next time you raise the hood and shut it, it's back up in the rear of the hood again. Is this adjustable?

3.) It has a super great Alpine CD stereo in it, and cheap 50-cent speakers behind the seat. How do I remove the door panels to put new speakers in there, or are there other suggestions for good speaker locations? Dash maybe? Both? I'm thinking the Alpine probably pushes 20 watts RMS x 4, so 4x6's or 5x7's are probably in order without putting amps and subs and all that.

4.) I think the electic choke on the Edelbrock carb is unhooked. Where does this go? Is there a factory plug for electric chokes that came on 400's, or should we think about wiring it to the fuse box or the battery?

5.) The silver plastic trim around the speedometer, radio, etc., has some cracks. Any ideas as to where would be a good place to find a good replacement/reproduction part? Price? I've looked at Obsolete Ford Parts from Oklahoma City and Autokrafters in Virginia with no luck yet.

6.) There is some play in the front drive shaft. Is the drive shaft bad, or will a seal in the transfer case fix this? Is the transfer case bad? Seems to be okay in 4-wheel drive, but you can slide that thing (drive shaft when you're under the truck examining) back and forth what seems to be way too much.

7.) We've also got to replace the back rear spring hanger (3-inch wide) because of some rust, and get a battery holder (has a tray, but no top, just a bungee cord holding it in...works but not impressive when you pop the hood, especially contrasted against shiny chrome valve covers and shiny blue engine). We just have to locate these somewhere.

All in all, it's a good truck. A West Virginia truck, and it has no body rust. The builder looked for southern parts (bed, cab), and put a great body together, and got a great paint job on it (stunning metallic silver, with about 4 inches of rock-guard around the bottom). The seats are newly reupholstered, with new door panels and even the cab was stripped and repainted inside before all this went in. It's got a 3 or 4 inch body lift, and Mickey Thompson polished aluminum wheels (standard Ford pattern, little holes in a circle like on Rangers, bought at Charlotte speedway) with big BFG All Terrain T/A's (about 12-inches wide across the top of the tire). The builder is a machinist/lifelong mechanic (his father and grandfather were mechanics too), and he recently (1000 miles ago?) painstakingly built the 400 V-8 with good parts, so it runs great (when it's warm that is...it doesn't start without the choke in the recent cold and snow unless we pour gas down into the carb after removing the breather...). All in all, it brings back a lot of memories of Dad's 1978 F-150 that he had when I was a little kid, basically the same except it was baby blue, had the stock hub caps (5-star pattern or something), no lift kit, and was 351M w/ auto instead of 400 w/4 speed.

Again, thanks in advance for all your advice and help. I think we'll be working on this while I'm off for spring break in March, or weekend trips home!


Joe Hartwell
Electrical Engineering Student at Virginia Tech
Virginia Air National Guard, 192 Civil Engineering Squadron
hartwellvt.edu

1988 Ford Ranger, 2wd, 2.0L w/ 5-speed (170,000 miles, runs great, nice paint & wheels)
1968 Ford F-100, 2wd, 360 w/ 3-speed (a project, cost $350, we've got some work to do here!)
1997 Harley-Davidson 883 Sportster (what can I say, men hafta have toys)



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 03:36:56 -0800 (PST)
From: "D. DiMartino" yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: listar filtering problems



--- Ken Payne ford-trucks.com> wrote:
> Just change the filter from "FTE 61-79" to "61-79-list"

ken, i did that and it didn't work, must be a problem between
Yahoo! and Listar. no sweat, my in box is now dedicated to the
list and i made a new file for my other mail. great job with
the swap over, i don't envy you!

=====
Daniel DiMartino
yahoo.com>
1968 F-250 soon to be a 4x4
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://im.yahoo.com

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Clutch pedal question
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 06:51:59 -0500

Well, here we go again......I spent the whole week educating the world with
my deep and profound expertise only to find out that world is indeed Flat
and things can fall off of it........all my posts for instance.....:-(

Anyway.....A clutch will not return when any of the following problems
occur:

1..Linkage is out of adjustment so that the clutch pressure plate does not
return it past the kick point of the pedal helper spring.
2..Clutch arm return spring is broken or not properly installed
3..Bell crank bushings are worn out so the bell crank floats all over and
binds etc.
4..Pressure plate is shot (in which case the clutch also slips very badly or
doesn't work at all)
5..Pivot pins are dried out or plastic bushings are damaged in the pedal
itself
6..Helper spring is broken or missing or improperly installed.

What I've learned is that there is a very narrow adjustment range where the
helper spring will "kick" at the right point and finish returning the clutch
pedal. The return spring connected to the clutch arm or bell crank will not
return the pedal by itself. The pressure plate springs push it back to the
point where the free play begins then the return spring makes sure it all
makes it to that point and the linkage remains tight but the "helper" spring
under the dash is what actually has to finish the job of returning the
pedal.

If the bushings in the bell crank are worn or dried out or full of dirt the
bell crank will interfere with this too and the clutch will have a bad feel
to it and won't work smoothly and you can even get a lot of chatter from it.
As it turns out I traded a perfectly good HD pressure plate for a rebuilt
standard plate because it was chattering only to discover that the worn
bushings in the bell crank were 100% responsible for this. The new clutch
chattered also so I began fixing everything I could think of and this turned
out to be the "FIX" that solved all my problems.

What I have discerned from this is that "any" looseness in any part of the
linkage can cause chatter so before you go to the trouble to fix the
"clutch" fix the linkage first then see if the clutch is still bad :-)
Could save you $250 or so. I got my bushings at Lowe's for a couple of
bucks (nylon rollers for some door or something) and all I had to do was
drill the hole to fit the pivot pins. I welded up the holes in the clutch
arms and redrilled them to fit the rods and welded up the rods and filed
them back down so they were round. My clutch feels as good as a new one now
but still slips because of the "standard" plate, darn it!#^%^^%$#$

Unfortunately some lessons are learned the hard way :-(

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>In about the last 6 months my clutch pedal has stopped
>returning all the
>way after I shift. I have to pull it up with my foot? I've tried
>adjusting it from under the dash, but no good.

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: BRAKES! setup part 2
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 06:56:05 -0500

Ok, Bill I'll try again since my post last week apparently didn't get
throught the maze :-)

1..different fitting sizes are handled with adapter fittings you get at auto
parts in the "brass" section. I use 3/16 lines exclusively on all my
vehicles for everything and just adapt them to whatever....... I have yet to
find a dealer who carries the proper fittings to use with your double
flaring tool to make new, stock spec lines so adapters are all that are
available AFAIK. They work fine, just not quite as elegant as without them.

2..Without a proper proportioning valve which contains the residual valve
required by "all" disk brake systems you will have no pedal and it will be
mushy even with no air in the lines. The newer MC's come with residuals
built into the MC somehow but the older ones require this in the
proportioning valve. Trust me, Bill, I already tried what you suggested
earlier and discovered this hard fact of life. If you don't prevent the
pistons in the calipers from backing out with a residual valve the distance
they have to move to get a good bite is more than the MC can deliver in one
press. I bought a new one from Ford for $113 including tax (and delivery
charges :-)) and it cured the problem I was having but now I have a small
air leak which I will have to address to get really firm pedal, darn
it.....seems like there's no end sometimes :-(

3..I used a stainless one from Super Lift I believe it was which came with
the junction block built in like the stock ones do but I used a 9" ford bajo
bolt in the breather hole (drilled and tapped for 7/16-20 I think it was)
but this puts the block pretty close to hitting when at full bump so look it
over before doing it :-) Forgot why I did that now........ but I did it
while the axle was out and stripped so no chips got in the diff :-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>1) How do you guys deal with brake lines requiring different
>sized fittings
>
>2)catch they come on hard, but it seems like too much travel, any
>thoughts/suggestions ???
>
>3) has anyone found a replacement brake hose for a D44 front
>end ?

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: FRAME PAINTING
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 06:56:55 -0500

This is precisely why I suggested the needle gun as a prerequisite to the
blaster.....:-) It makes short work of stuff the blaster can't really
handle well and leaves the cleanup for the blaster only.

If this is paint prep acid wash it is only a dilute form of Phosphoric acid
which will "convert" light rust but will not "eat" heavy rust so don't rely
on this to clean up heavy rust between frame members for instance. Most of
this work will have to be done manually and degreased then acid washed.
Remember that acid has absoulutely no affect on grease or undercoat or tar
etc...

Most primers do not fare well in sunlight or weather so should be covered by
a top coat of some kind. The self etching primer I used recently leaves a
glossy finish and looks durable but I still plan to cover it eventually.
Not sure what the epoxy stuff is or does and it may be more durable.

I'm going to turn off the prefix character till Ken gets the software
working better. Something in the system is kicking out my posts when I
leave even a little of the original in there......if Lis*tar doesn't know
it's part of the old stuff he can't kick me out right?

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--


What I did was sand blast the frame (had it done... guy spent
too much time
getting the top and left junk on bottom... where you see
it...), sand and

Then I used a bottle of acid wash stuff. I just mixed it with

The final step was the epoxy primer. It dried hard and had a
shine to it. It
looked good so I didn't put any paint on top of it.

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Dad's new (1979) truck, Steering
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 07:24:01 -0500

Ok, so lets take this one at a time in separate posts to keep Lis*tar happy
:-)

Steering "wander" may be caused by looseness but usually is is caused by
binding of the ball joints or king pins which may be coupled with loose
steering components to make it even worse.

First, check the easy stuff....have someone move the steering wheel with
engine on while you look at each joint in the system for movement. There is
no joint in the sytem with any allowable free play so any side to side or
vertical "relative" movement is cause for replacement of that component.

Next, jack up the front end and put it on stands with tires off the ground,
drop the drag link and at least one tie rod ends (use the proper tool for
this, not a tuning fork) and try to move each wheel by itself. They should
be very easy to move, with one pinky.....if not there is enough bind to
cause wandering. Any part of the system could cause binding but it is
usually the ball joints or king pins that give trouble.

On 4x4's the steering shaft Ujoint certainly can cause loose steering (mine
is :-( ) Supposedly you can get replacements for this at autoparts but I
haven't tried yet. There are companies that make new shafts for about $165
or so also.

The steering box can be loose also.....if you find this it true then give us
a ring and we'll splain how to adjust it :-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--
>But Dad just got a new truck (new to him, it's a 1979 F-150),
>and there are a few things we need to work out. I thought I'd
>present the problems to you guys, I know y'all really know your Fords!
>
>1.) The steering is awful. They (Dad and the seller) seem to
>think it's a "u-joint" in the steering assembly about to come
>out. Does this seem right? I mean, you are constantly
>steering back and forth to keep it straight, and there's tons of play.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 07:31:43 -0500
From: Steve Schaefer PLASTEKGROUP.COM>
Subject: Re: IRS advice

> IRS ADVICE
>
> I am looking to install an IRS under my truck. Has anyone here done anything
> like this? I am thinking of using an IRS from a T-bird and maybe using the
> stock truck springs. Any advice on widths and such?

Wow, you guys are rough on the T-bird IRS. As long as you use the 8.8 centered rear
out of a SC or a V-8 Bird, I think it would work out. I have personally seen a couple
of 450 hp Birds launching on slicks that hold up quite well. You must remember that a
fully loaded T-bird weighs just a little less than a 2wd short bed pickup. They weigh
in at just under 4000 lbs. I have a independent rear sitting at home out of the car, I
can measure hub to hub if you would like. Just for some info, I just got done cutting
down a truck housing for one of my Birds, and I only took 3.5" off per side, and I am
using a 12" wide rim with a shallow backspace.

Steve S.
77 Ford F-250 Supercab
76 Ford F-350 Crewcab
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/8663/


------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Dad's new (1979) truck, Drive shaft
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 07:54:25 -0500

Only one end of the drive shaft should move, the slip joint and then only
relative to the other part of the shaft. Both ends are captured by Ujoints
in yokes which are supposed to be solidly bolted to the input or output
shaft they connect to.

If there is any free play at either end you need to determine whether it is
the ujoint or the nut that holds the yoke in place and fix the problem by
replacing the ujoint or tightening the nuts. If by some chance the whole
shaft is moving in the xfer case or differential then you really have
trouble and this will have to be rebuilt.

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>6.) There is some play in the front drive shaft. Is the
>drive shaft bad, or will a seal in the transfer case fix this?
> Is the transfer case bad? Seems to be okay in 4-wheel drive,
>but you can slide that thing (drive shaft when you're under
>the truck examining) back and forth what seems to be way too much.

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Dad's new (1979) truck, hood
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:01:56 -0500

My bronco has this problem and since all the bolts are rusted in I have left
it until I am ready to restore that area of the truck but normally you can
rotate the hinge a little by loosening the mount bolts that hold it on the
fender well structure. I believe this is really due to weak springs which,
when new pulled the hinge down a little harder, along with worn pivots that
allow the geometry to change a little so the leverages are not the same
etc....

You should try lubing the pivots really well first and operate the hinge
through several cycles etc. but this probably won't completely cure the
problem. It may improve it some though, it did mine. Don't use water based
lubes like WD40 for this. They work well for "freeing up" things but for
permanent lube you need something like a good spray on chain lube that will
soak into the joints and then stay there. Motor oil in a squirt can would
be a second choice but WD40 will dry out in a few hours and be useless in my
experience.

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>2.) The hood sticks up a little high in the back near the
>cowl (maybe an inch), but you can push it down with your hand
>and the next time you raise the hood and shut it, it's back up
>in the rear of the hood again. Is this adjustable?

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: Dad's new (1979) truck, choke
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:37:10 -0500

I am working on an idea with my choke right now. The spring on a
replacement Holley 600, 4160 is 10K ohms which reduces the voltage to less
than one volt. My choke goes completely off in about 2 minutes which is way
too fast so I plan to put in a rheostat with a zero to 10k resistance in the
hot line to the choke and play with it. I suspect that each coil will
require a slightly different voltage to work properly but try hooking it up
to 12v to start and make sure it has some means to ground. Some have a
metal tag inside that contacts the housing for a ground, mine has two
terminals, one hot, one ground......in any case you have to have a complete
circuit for it to work at all. New cars use the field wire in the voltage
regulator to power it which may not even be 12v, not sure.

There "was" a factory plug at some time on a 78 or 79 but it may have been
lost through owner mods......you know...."what the heck is this....we don't
need this....."

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>4.) I think the electic choke on the Edelbrock carb is
>unhooked. Where does this go? Is there a factory plug for
>electric chokes that came on 400's, or should we think about
>wiring it to the fuse box or the battery?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 07:50:25 -0600
Subject: On being a Dad
From: "John LaGrone" ford-trucks.com>

Congratulations, Joe!!!

>>I tell you, old age is no fun but there are some advantages, like wisdom,
understanding, knowledge etc.....What's fun is being able to impart that to
our offspring some day, hopefully "before" they need it and thus learn it
for themselves, the hard way like we did :-)<<

Now, Gary, don't you figure our Dads thought the same thing? My son is now
23 and still living at home. Watching him has always been like going back in
time to when I was his age. Sometimes he does the same stupid things I did
with a slight twist to make it his own. Ah, the folly of youth....... He
doesn't turn a wrench quite as good as me...yet, but he bowls better than I
do...so far.

-- John
jlagroneford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 08:56:49 -0500
From: "J. Doss Halsey" isl-inc.com>
Subject: BRAKES! setup

Wish,

I took the stock brake lines out of an old truck at the recycling yard. I
then cut the ends off the old ones and used them in the new application. Go
get yourself a double flare (important) tubing flare kit. Take the made up
brake lines from the auto parts store (so at least one end will be right).
Then cut one end off, and install your "stock" fittings for the MC end.
Voila. Stock brake lines.

BTW, the loops are stock. I bent the tubing around a WD-40 can to make them
nice and round and pretty.

>1) How do you guys deal with brake lines requiring different sized fittings
>on either end ? I lucked out and the new MC used the same size for the rear
>brakes on both sides, but the other side is a huge difference (wrench sizes
>of 5/8ths on top and 5/16ths on the bottom!) Thoughts on that, as the guy
>used really long tubing to do this job and there's a loop in it I'd like to
>take out, but would like a new line too ...

Doss Halsey
'68 F-250 Camper Special - one more stock detail preserved.


------------------------------

From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: Ford V8 workshop
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:21:36 -0600

> Does anyone know where the ford V8 workshop went to?
>
> I have it bookmarked at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.wrljet.com/engines/ but the site
> doesn't respond anymore.
>

I can't find it anymore either, it moved for a while to a different address
that I have on my homepage, but its not there anymore either...if anyone
finds it please lemme know!

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish


------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: On being a Dad
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:26:39 -0500

Yeah, it breaks my heart to see them struggling but I didn't listen either
and I had a good Dad too :-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>Now, Gary, don't you figure our Dads thought the same thing?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 08:16:41 -0600
Subject: BRAKES!!
From: "John LaGrone" ford-trucks.com>

>> > The master we got for dad's 67 PB conversion had adapter fittings already
> installed.

Mine also came with one of these and that's the only reason the truck is
running today, but I just look at adapters as something else to leak or
break and would like the factory look of not using them at all in the end<<

I think the only way you can totally avoid the adapters is to get the guy at
the parts counter to let you look through the stock when you buy your
replacement. On a lot of brands, including our Ford trucks, the manufacturer
used different sized lines on the reservoir for the front brakes on
different years. When you buy a rebuilt unit, the parts computer doesn't
distinguish between these. I ran into the same problem on the transmission
cooler lines on my replacement radiator.

-- John
jlagroneford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 08:17:36 -0600
Subject: BRAKES!!
From: "John LaGrone" ford-trucks.com>

>>> I've seen this done quite often, sometimes having several full loops. I
> always thought this was to allow some flexing. Am I wrong on this?

The only time I've used a loop is when I had waaaay too much pipe and needed
to take out the slack, there should be some in there for slack I suppose,
but you shouldn't need enough slack that you have to loop it in there ...
maybe others have different theories on it ?<<

I always thought the loops were in there to dissipate heat. Seems like I
read that once long ago.

-- John
jlagroneford-trucks.com <]:-) <]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)<]:-)
1979 F150 Custom, Long Wide Bed, Regular Cab, 351M, C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

------------------------------

From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: BRAKES! setup part 2
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:30:21 -0600

> 1..different fitting sizes are handled with adapter fittings you
> get at auto
> parts in the "brass" section. They work fine, just not quite as elegant as
> without them.

Exactly my problem, I want elegant, it is after all a Ford truck hahahaha...
anyway just a pet peeve, I can probably live with it :) I may take Doss'
advice and just use the fittings off of the old line :)

> 2..Without a proper proportioning valve which contains the residual valve
> required by "all" disk brake systems. Trust me, Bill, I already tried
what you > suggested
> earlier and discovered this hard fact of life.

Uhm, maybe I'm confused here, but I have drum brakes right now... also from
what they advertise in Jeg's it sounds like drums require a bigger (read
higher force) residual valve because of all the springs involved, its
possible (and likely) that's what my problem is, but where is the residual
valve supposed to be for this system ? Underneath there's a block that
seems to have the pressure switch on it, but doesn't look big enough for
both a residual and a pressure switch (the one that turns on the light on
the dash) ...

Using what you just said as well, sounds like with the Wilwood adjustable
prop. valve I'm also gonna need a resid. valve, no big deal really ...

> 3..I used a stainless one from Super Lift I believe it was which came
with...
> while the axle was out and stripped so no chips got in the diff :-)
>
I talked with Stu yesterday and he said he was able to drill the old bracket
off of the stock fitting and bolt that to the junction block and the axle,
looks stock, keeps everything below the pumpkin so I won't destroy it,
pretty handy :)

As for the loops in the lines, these things were so far from round it wasn't
even funny. The line I used was a touch long, so there's a couple inches of
slop in it now anyway. Also with new floor boards and cab mounts I'm not
too worried about cab movement :)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 08:32:05 -0600
From: Larry Schmiedekamp angelo.edu>
Subject: List is great

Thanks Ken.

The server is working great from my end.

Thanks for all the hard work.

Your wife must be a super women for letting you put in so much time.

Later

Larry


------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: 67 Restore Project
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:35:12 -0500

I know it seems rather simple some times but I've been caught by some of the
silliest things on occasion :-) This was one of them.....darn thing is
right there in front of your face and you still can't see it.....all part of
learning the hobby :-)

My brother and I pulled an engine from an Olds way back when in my grand
dad's barn and between the ceiling being too low and using ropes, a tractor
and pulleys and the Shetland pony running off with anything shiny in the
tool box we forgot to unhook the battery cable to the starter and couldn't
figure out why it was coming out so hard til it popped and shook the whole
barn.......:-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>Thanks Gary you were right on the nose. Didn't even dawn on
>me until I got
>your email. Came right out after removing the ispection plate.

------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: 429 in a '65 F-100
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:30:30 -0500

Well, you may need to go with custom jobbies but Stan's and a few others do
have some pretty way out applications available. Hooker and Hedman may not
be a good source, try the more specializes ones. They are more expensive
but the tri-Y types are much better for improved power than the cheap equal
length dime store variety anyway :-) I don't have a list anymore but there
are at least 3 companies making these including Stan's.

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

><< or buy headers like the rest
> of us :-)
>
> Ok slick where might I find headers to fit my 64 with a 460 in it ??
>Headers for a 460 are somewhat tuff to come by .

------------------------------

From: "Redden" enter.net>
Subject: groveling to Ken and list members
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:47:57 -0500

I've belonged to a number of lists and this one has the BEST webmaster and
members. Ken does a great job!
I can't thank him, and everyone else involved, enough. I'm no expert
vehicle mechanic, that's for sure, I wish I could
help with more questions! Often enough, I don't even have to ask a
question; I just read the posts and someone
else already has. Sorry for the times I do duplicate some subject. I try
to look in my old archives for answers, if I can.

Thanks again Ken and everybody, you guys make owning and working on old FT's
even more fun!

Mike in PA



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 07:14:27 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson ctc.edu>
Subject: Re: 351M-400 magazine article

Thanks for your message at 03:27 PM 2/7/00 PST, NP 540. Your message was:
>Hello there!
> I was at the book store a few days ago. There is this magazine;
>"Hot-Rod Engines", on the racks, and in it is a reprint of that
>excellent 400M ford engine buildup, the same article that appeared
>in Hot-Rod about a year ago. There is also a Cadillac 500 buildup.
>That magazine's cover is green. Get it while you can, if you like
>351M-400 Ford engines!!

Got it this morning. Thanks for the tip...


Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (Cadillac 500)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm

------------------------------

From: "Redden" enter.net>
Subject: steering wheel resto
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:09:50 -0500

Rich:

You can file/sand the cracks into a "V" shape so that filler will hold
better.
PC7 (two part) is good and is a little easier to sand than JBWeld.

If you clean and sand the wheel you can use plastic paint on it.

Mike







------------------------------

From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)" visteon.com>
Subject: Re: BRAKES! setup part 2
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:20:57 -0500

Sorry Bill, I thought you said you converted to disk front brakes? Drum
brakes don't require a residual valve because you can mechanically adjust
them to the spec you want and they return to that position every time. Disk
brake calipers have no way of controling the "rest" position of the caliper
piston and thus the pads so you have to resist the fluid from returning
beyond a certain pressure. It's a compromise but one that works well for
this application. The pads actully touch the rotor all the time, the
residual valve limits how far the piston can return based on pressure
exerted against the pads by the rotor as it turns, hits bumps etc. which
eventually returns the pads to a position which will not generate excessive
heat from friction etc... This actually happens rather quickly otherwise
your brakes would burn up so the pressure regulation in the residual valve
is very critical for proper operation of the disk brakes.

With a drum/drum setup all you need is the Willwood device to reduce effort
on the rear brakes and for this it should work very well. I have actually
used drum/drum with no proportioning valve with good success but in a panic
stop this valve can save your life.......if it's set up correctly because it
will allow both axles to apply maximum braking without locking up.....up to
the pressure you apply as the operator (lock up of all 4 is your
responsibility :-))

One thing that happens with drum brakes to mess you up is out of round shoes
which don't perfecty match the drum in which case you get a mushy pedal and
less responsive brakes. Hope something in all this helps you figure it out
:-)

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
--

>> 2..Without a proper proportioning valve which contains the
>residual valve
>
>Uhm, maybe I'm confused here, but I have drum brakes right
>now... also from
>what they advertise in Jeg's it sounds like drums require a
>bigger (read
>higher force) residual valve because of all the springs involved, its

------------------------------

From: "William S. Hart" iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: BRAKES! setup part 2
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:54:17 -0600

> Sorry Bill, I thought you said you converted to disk front brakes?

Not yet, all the parts (or at least 80% of them) are currently laying in my
basement beckoning to me, but I want to wait til the weather clears up so
I'll have my car to drive and can do the work during the week instead of
trying to rush on weekends like I currently do ...


> Disk
> brake calipers have no way of controling the "rest" position of
> the caliper
> piston and thus the pads so you have to resist the fluid from returning
> beyond a certain pressure.

Hmmmm... so would this do the trick ?

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.wilwood.com/products/master_cylinders/rpv/rpv.html

And also wondering if this isn't affecting me for some reason too even
though there is over 2' of verticle height between the wheel cylinders and
the master cylinder ...

> With a drum/drum setup all you need is the Willwood device to
> reduce effort
> on the rear brakes and for this it should work very well. I have actually
> used drum/drum with no proportioning valve with good success but
> in a panic

I hadn't planned on installing (or at least using if installed) the prop.
valve until the disc brakes were installed, but maybe I will ...

> up to
> the pressure you apply as the operator (lock up of all 4 is your
> responsibility :-))
>

Not a problem .. the '50 Buick doesn't have power brakes and I can stop it
pretty quick, the 69 Cougar I have locked all 4 non power drums up on too
... probably something to do with about one hockey game a week for the last
couple years ...

> One thing that happens with drum brakes to mess you up is out of
> round shoes
> which don't perfecty match the drum in which case you get a mushy
> pedal and
> less responsive brakes.

The shoes are only a year or so old, not really worn too badly either (at
least last time I was in there) ... frankly as long as they hold out til end
of March I'll probably be okay, I was worried about the excessive travel
being there when I do the disc brakes, but decided I'd just wait and see if
it was or not ...

> Hope something in all this helps you
> figure it out

Yup, but reminded me of something else ... while I was bleeding the brakes I
noticed there is a small piece missing from my drum! Its got a smooth edge
and is somewhat elliptical ... probably an inch or two long, but only
protruding into the drum a half or less, so it doesn't actually effect the
braking surfaces ... just shocked that it was there, anyone know what would
cause this ? (also explains the occasional "unbalanced wheel" feeling I
think ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish


------------------------------

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