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Subject: 61-79-list-digest V3 #466
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61-79-list-digest Sunday, December 19 1999 Volume 03 : Number 466



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

RE: FTE 61-79 - Boring
RE: FTE 61-79 - Boring
RE: FTE 61-79 - Economy gains?
RE: FTE 61-79 - ENVY'S FIRST "OWWIE"
RE: FTE 61-79 - Ox runs rings around John
RE: FTE 61-79 - plug wires
RE: FTE 61-79 - RE: Plug wires, looms
Re: FTE 61-79 - Boring
RE: FTE 61-79 - Sick C6
RE: FTE 61-79 - weird sights
RE: FTE 61-79 - Lug nuts, not dead n.......
FTE 61-79 - sick C6
FTE 61-79 - popping carb
FTE 61-79 - weird sights
FTE 61-79 - 80 vent window same as 89?
RE: FTE 61-79 - weird sights
Re: FTE 61-79 - weird sights
FTE 61-79 - Tricks with zip ties - also 9mm looms
RE: FTE 61-79 - Tricks with zip ties - also 9mm looms
Re: FTE 61-79 - ENVY'S FIRST "OWWIE"
Re: FTE 61-79 - weird sights
Re: FTE 61-79 - sick C6
FTE 61-79 - Choke heater tube
Re: FTE 61-79 - Sick C6
RE: FTE 61-79 - sick C6
RE: FTE 61-79 - Choke heater tube
FTE 61-79 - Toys and stuff....
Re: FTE 61-79 - Toys and stuff....
RE: FTE 61-79 - Toys and stuff....
Re: FTE 61-79 - Toys and stuff....
FTE 61-79 - 73-79 Bed Found!!!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Toys and stuff....
Re: FTE 61-79 - sick C6
Re: FTE 61-79 - Sick C6
RE: FTE 61-79 - Toys and stuff....
FTE 61-79 - C-6 and ATSG
FTE 61-79 - Re: Taco'd
FTE 61-79 - cool EB project, and a sad ending
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Web site updates
FTE 61-79 - For sale
Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 250 van parts for 460 swap
Re: FTE 61-79 - weird sights
FTE 61-79 - squealing heater
Re: FTE 61-79 - squealing heater
Re: FTE 61-79 - squealing heater

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 07:13:41 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Boring

As Stock Man says, if you use a proper cylinder hone it will both true up
the taper and the out of roundness of the cylinder. A proper hone is solid
and has enough stones in it to ensure that it acts like a boring tool, that
is, it is not affected by the shape of the cylinder and will eventually make
a round hole. Where the problem comes in is that the finished size is the
rusult of removing the "Average" deviation of the largest and smallest parts
and can, in some cases, reflect the largest deviation from nominal center.
A good way to begin such a project is to rough hone all the cylinders to a
point where they are mostly cleaned up but have witness marks left from the
old bore. Now you measure all the cylinders and find the largest one and
the largest spot in that cylinder and this becomes your target if it falls
within your allowed spec.. If not then you must bore to the next oversize
leaving enough stock to finsh hone for the correct finish and cross hatch
etc... Initially, leave plenty of witness until you find out where you are
and based on the projected degree of finish you are seeking etc.. If you
are building a race engine you want perfection or if you are building the
ultimate, long lasting touring engine this too needs ultimate perfection but
if you just need another 50k out of it then you can fudge quite a bit.

The one thing which is true about a hone is that it will follow the
"Average" center line of the cylinder as it has worn, not as it was
originally bored so the result can be slight out of line centers to the
crank. In most cases this will not be enough to make any difference to us
but to high rpm racers this it taken into account and bores are always trued
first to the crank with a boring bar and then the deck is also trued to the
crank to eliminate any possible side loading on the components. For us this
is not really a serious consideration but if you really want to do it right
then these steps should be taken too :-) (depending on equipment used the
deck may be trued first) :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Just remember that honing does nothing but exand the
> cylinder that you
> have, if you are out of round now, honing it .005 is just
> going to give you
> a 5 thousandths larger egg shaped cylinder...
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 07:45:48 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Boring

It just occured to me that as long as I am on the subject I should have
warned readers that you never bore an engine and hone it until you have
measured all the pistons and verified the required clearances. In most
cases the pistons will be interchangeable but there is enough risk of slight
differences that all pistons should be carefully measured and logged and
marked and if necessary the bores should be individually sized to the
pistons.

This seldom is an issue now days with diamond cutting tools and high
technology machining processes to finish the pistons but is always a wise
precaution on any rebuild project, just to be sure :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> A good way to begin such a project is to rough hone all the
> cylinders to a
> point where they are mostly cleaned up but have witness marks
> left from the
> old bore. Now you measure all the cylinders and find the
> largest one and
> the largest spot in that cylinder and this becomes your
> target if it falls
> within your allowed spec.. If not then you must bore to the
> next oversize
> leaving enough stock to finsh hone for the correct finish and
> cross hatch
> etc...
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 07:47:44 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Economy gains?

I'd like a little clarification of this.....? Tunable timing devices?

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> There has been mention of working on the intake to get better
> economy vs the
> exhaust. The MM came with a vacuum gauge stock, which was
> replaced by a
> voltmeter (?). How about those tunable timing devices
> working in conjunction
> with the vacuum gauge to tune the condition you are in?
>
> Rob G
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:03:30 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - ENVY'S FIRST "OWWIE"

As in "folded"? A lot of "coined" words are used to describe an event or
condition but it's always interesting to see where they came from. I've
heard this descriptive word used many times but never really stopped to
analyze it's roots?? I picture a taco shell folded over in the pan or
sitting in the plate at about a 45 degree angle waiting for the fillers :-)

Other possible words are "T boned", "Creamed", "Nuked", "Spanked",
"Flattened", "Accordioned", "Mushroomed"......all of which are pretty self
explanitory......to me anyway but Taco-ed?? :-)

BTW, I had a kid back into me in a parking lot one day in a Do**e van and
"Taco" his heiney too. Only got about a 10' running start but caved in the
whole rear end of the body on my bumper which just happened to be about 3'
off the ground and backed up by 300# of home made trailer hitch :-) I was
distressed to discover that there was a very small dent in the stock bumper
where some solid part of his van managed to get a lick in :-( I didn't even
wait around, just pulled out into traffic and went back to work. Drove by a
few days later and saw it there in the parking lot....what a mess. It was a
Pizza delivery truck :-) Probably should have stopped and let the police do
a report but I was in a hurry and didn't care a hoot about my 4x4 van since
it was rusted out anyway :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> *whew*> but the lady pretty much "Taco-ed" the back end of
> her van
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:20:51 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Ox runs rings around John

If you look at the previous message on this page you will find the "real"
root of it's meaning and it's association with machining as well. I fully
suspected as much but could never have expressed it quite so elequently as
he did :-) Once you read this you may decide, as I did, that this is not
appropriate in polite company as are many other such expressions :-) Since
most people don't have a clue about the roots of many such expressions they
are used commonly in public......if they only knew what they were saying :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Here's an extract I found that may help.
>
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://ltk.hut.fi/archives/rp-ml/0385.html
>
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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:27:58 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - plug wires

As always, Steve, I appreciate your Physics insights and have to applaud you
on this dissertation but........don't the wires have to be parallel for some
distance to have enough contact for induction to take place? For example,
in those rubber dizzy cap things that pull all the wires together right at
the cap....can induction take place there? Or, if two wires simply lay
across each other, more or less perpendicular to each other can induction
happen then? I picture heli wound wires as having more induction potential
due to the magetic fields they are "designed" to emit, would you say this is
true?

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Then there's the matter of induced currents...
> Even with plug wires that are *perfect insulators*, it's STILL
> possible to fire a plug with energy not intended to go to it.
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:44:42 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - RE: Plug wires, looms

I like the aluminum one piece jobbies with inserts but regardless this
process will embrittle the plastic so that it may break when you try to
insert the wires. That is a plan though and might be a way to get my stock
looms to function. Since they are useless as they are I'm out nothing if
the experiment fails :-)

There is also the possiblity that 10mm split looms would work too but the
"snap in" types would not hold the wires well enough I don't think so I keep
putting it off..... I made some out of micarta once that used the valve
cover bolts as anchors, two halves bolted together. You can actually make
these with a drill press and drill press vise very easily out of rectangle
nylon stock or micarta stock etc or even hard rubber. I may attempt to make
some more one day :-) I took two matching pieces and sandwiched them in the
vise edge up and drilled the proper sized holes for the wires, 4, 3, 2,1 in
4 sets for each side of the engine. Then turn them over and drill and tap
one bolt hole in the outboard end and a through hole in the inboard end for
a longer valve cover bolt. They work very well and look pretty good but are
a pain to install and take off when you work on the wires.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> wire looms. They're available in Black, Blue, Red, and Yellow (I
> think.) Now go find a LARGE Phillips head screwdriver (about 9mm
> diameter.) Take a propane torch, oxy-acetylene torch or
> other suitable
> heat source and heat the end of the screwdriver. If you're
> careful, you
> can slide the now hot screwdriver into the hole, thus enlarging the
> "factory" 8mm hole to 9mm After the loom cools off, take a
> razor blade and
> scrape all the built up goo off the looms and voila, a 9mm
> loom.
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:03:58 EST
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Boring

In a message dated 12/18/99 7:16:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gpeters3 visteon.com writes:

> Where the problem comes in is that the finished size is the
> rusult of removing the "Average" deviation of the largest and smallest
parts
> and can, in some cases, reflect the largest deviation from nominal center.
> A good way to begin such a project is to rough hone all the cylinders to a
> point where they are mostly cleaned up but have witness marks left from the
> old bore. Now you measure all the cylinders and find the largest one and
> the largest spot in that cylinder and this becomes your target if it falls
> within your allowed spec.. If not then you must bore to the next oversize
> leaving enough stock to finsh hone for the correct finish and cross hatch
> etc... Initially, leave plenty of witness until you find out where you are
> and based on the projected degree of finish you are seeking etc..

Well said Gary. The extra time you spend up front figuring all the specs
will be well spent.

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (HELP!---I need 15 x5 factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:20:17 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Sick C6

Need more imput! Who is ATSG? I have an old 79 Petersen's with a very good
rebuild section but the one thing it did not cover was the check ball
locations in the control valve module (forgot what we call the dang
thing....old age again :-)) Haven't looked in my service manual yet for
this info, might be there, don't know.

Here's a tip.....do not lose the paper that comes with your kit because it
DOES have this info in it and may be the only place you will find it. Once
you open up that dohicky those balls fall out and there is no way you are
going to guess at the right locations for them, ever again as long as you
live.....forever...4 balls, 50 possible locations :-(

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Kits for these
> things are cheap (like $40) as are bands ($10-$25).. and if
> it all fails,
> and you end up having to buy a bone yard model, you've only
> lost $50 and
> some time... Well worth it to me, instead of paying $800-$1600 for the
> rebuild. I have done several now, and I absolutely love it!
> There are
> books available from ATSG that tke you through the whole thing step by
> step... Really can't go wrong. :)
>
> Brad
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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:37:11 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - weird sights

A person I know stopped in front of my house with a wheel off the axle on
his escort. All the lugs had sheared for some reason. I helped him
carefully roll it into my drive way on the wheel which was still hanging on
the rear drum and rolling like a planetary gear set on the drum and inside
of the wheel rim. I tried to convince him that he needed to fix it first
and then drive it home but he felt is would stay on long enough to get home!
0.4 miles later he was again on the side of the road but this time the wheel
was all the way off. Kids! :-) When will they ever listen? :-) The fender
was the only thing keeping it on the drum, first bump he hit and off it went
:-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> and the sucker jumps off, hits the wheel well in the rear,
> and takes off at
> about 50 mph... If you've never seen a 33" tire screaming
> down the street,
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:46:17 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Lug nuts, not dead n.......

My daughter's 97 F-150 was recalled for bad lug nuts. The new ones have a
sweged washer on them that rotates to protect the new cast wheels they use.
Some of these apparently were not made right and were not tightening up on
the wheel but binding on the lug itself somehow so the wheel would not be
tight and the nut would eventually come off.

Never heard the power train thing but vibration in the power train should
not cause a properly torqued lug nut to come off. Vibration sufficient to
do that would have to make the vehicle undrivable I would think. When I was
in the service we used to struggle with rusted lugs and lug nuts on trucks
because of a mistaken belief that lubeing the lugs would make it easier for
the nuts to come off. Now, in professional auto shop classes, they teach
you to use anti-seize on the lugs to........ensure that they "won't" come
off! :-) Why? Because the anti-seize ensures that you will be able to get
the correct torque on them for good metal to metal contact. They used to
think the earth was flat too......:-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> If memory serves me correctly, some of the FoMoCo 4x4s were
> recalled because
> of excessive vibration in the power train causing wheels to
> fall off. I
> thought it was Expeditions and Navigators, though. One of the
> Ford sights
> (FTE maybe) should have an area wher you can look up recall notices.
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:55:45 -0600
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - sick C6

>>I am new to the mailing list. And of course I have a qeustion. I have a 65
F100 with a 460 backed by a C6. Ever since I installed the C6 I have had
problems. I don't know alot about tranny's so maybe someone could help. when
I put the truck in reverse it jerks and jumps, when I am in drive it acts
alright unless I have any weight in the truck then it acts like it won't
pull. Is there any fix short of pulling the tranny and installing a new
one.

Paul,

It sounds like the tranny is slipping. First, some questions and answers.
What year is the transmission? C6s made before the 1976 model year required
Ford ATF. 76 and later C6s require Dexron ATF. My sister put Ford ATF in my
79 and it acted just as you describe. I found out when I tried to back up
with a half cord of firewood on board. I changed the ATF and filter and the
tranny has worked well ever since, about 7 years. I didn't drain the torque
converter. I didn't know you could without pulling it, but I believe some
one mentioned a drain plug in a past post.

Did you rebuild the C6 or just put in one that you were told was working? If
it was lying around in the weather, it may have picked up some moisture
inside. Did you change the fluid when you installed it? I think you get my
drift. If it was put in without examination, then it may be worn out and
need a rebuild. Personally, I'd try the fluid and filter first unless you
put the tranny back together yourself and know what's there.

Good luck.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:00:36 -0600
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - popping carb

>>my engine still just plain
rattles my distributor's nut loose every once in a while and I have to
re-time it.

Bill, slap some household silicone sealer on your distributor nut after you
have tightened it down. This will prevent the vibration from turning the
nut. It just takes a bead down one face over to the bracket or if it is
really a nut, across the nut to the bolt threads. Plus, if the vibration is
so bad that it does still break loose, you can tell by looking. Household
silicone sealer will peel off easily enough if you need to loosen the bolt
on purpose.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:19:14 -0600
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - weird sights

>> I was coming to a stop,
and the sucker jumps off, hits the wheel well in the rear, and takes off at
about 50 mph...

Wasn't there a Kenny Rogers song about this phenomenon? You know: You picked
a fine time to leave me loose wheel.......


- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:30:12 -0600
From: John Strauss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 80 vent window same as 89?

>Does anybody know if the 80 vent windows were the same as on an 89??
>Mine got broken when some jack $$ decided to steal all my stuff inside.
>The junkyard near me has one off an F-150 which I know is the same but
>the want 65 for it. I can get a new one for 75. A cheaper junkyard has a
>1980 Bronco, so if that works, thats what I'll do. Thanks alot
>- -Will
>
Will, the doors for the Bronco and F-Series are the same 80-96 so I say it
will fit.
_
_| ~~. John Strauss
\, *_} jstrauss inetport.com
\( Texas Fight!

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Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:56:57 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - weird sights

ROFLOL!!! Are you related to Mr. Peabody?

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> >> I was coming to a stop,
> and the sucker jumps off, hits the wheel well in the rear,
> and takes off at
> about 50 mph...
>
> Wasn't there a Kenny Rogers song about this phenomenon? You
> know: You picked
> a fine time to leave me loose wheel.......
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:08:07 -0700
From: "Michael White"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - weird sights

> This same thing happened to a cab driver friend of mine. He was on the
> freeway when a tire passed him. He thought, "Gee, someone's in trouble,"
> before it became apparent from the feel of the cab that it might be him.
..........

I'll never forget watching a tire pass us while towing a boat to the
lake for some fishing. The left wheel fell off the trailer, passed us in the
oncoming lane as we made a right hand turn, and whirled into an open field.
After stopping and viewing the damaged spindle, the driver jacks up the axle
and ties a branch to it with bailing wire! We drag the branch in place of a
wheel a few miles, and then stop to jack up the axle again to reposition the
branch (which is much shorter now). Don't know how many miles we traveled
this way, but that's how we made it to civilization (used up a few branches
doing it).

Danger
danger csolutions.net


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:34:12 -0800 (PST)
From: draco pacifier.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Tricks with zip ties - also 9mm looms

Bill Beyer wrote:
> Actually zip ties can make very good wire looms...

That was a great tip and it reminded me of another one a friend
showed me.

Cut a piece of suitable tubing to a length equal to the spacing
you want. Run the zip tie around one wire, through the tubing,
around the other wire, back through the tubing and through the
clamp. It should end up something like this. (O)====(O) (tubing
not shown) Don't pull the zip-tie so tight it crimps the wire!

This is really intended for running two parallel hoses like heater
hose from the core, or remote oil filters. You just use a piece of
the same hose as the spacer and big zip ties.

For spark plug wires I would get some looms. A quick look in a
Jeg's catalog and I see Accel makes three different sets of looms
that fit 8.8 - 9mm wires which I think was the size the original
poster was looking for. I think I'd stay away from the ones that
say "fits 7-9mm".


Mark in Southwest Washington
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pacifier.com/~draco/Truck.html
- --
'74 F-100 Ranger XLT 4X4
in digest mode

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:54:41 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Tricks with zip ties - also 9mm looms

Thank you sir! My Jeggs subscription ran out due to lack of
spending.....Summit only has the smaller and larger ones but certainly 8.8
is close enough :-) I'll have to give them a jingle :-) My problem is that
no one really makes exactly what I want :-( I like the one piece ones but
they are not exactly the way I would make them either :-( Got to get me a
milling machine and lathe so I can be completely independent from commercial
interests and wet behind the ears engineers who think they have all the
answers..........This is Bullwinkle (Mr. Know It All) signing off...:-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> For spark plug wires I would get some looms. A quick look in a
> Jeg's catalog and I see Accel makes three different sets of looms
> that fit 8.8 - 9mm wires which I think was the size the original
> poster was looking for. I think I'd stay away from the ones that
> say "fits 7-9mm".
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:01:14 EST
From: GMontgo930 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ENVY'S FIRST "OWWIE"

In a message dated 12/17/99 6:36:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Bad4dFilly aol.com writes:


night
by a parent of a girl I tutor. Of course there isn't so much as a flake of
paint missing
*whew*> but the lady pretty much "Taco-ed" the back end of her van
went under my bumper> Just goes to show ya "Ford-Tuff!" =P My new saying is
"Awww...what's another dent??" LOL

~*~*Lisa and Envy~*~*
*~*~Silly boys...trucks are for girls!~*~* >>


Hope you have one of those "Auto" (or should I say truck) sized band-aids to
stick over Envy's boo boo. I remember when a toyota decided to mate with the
rear of my '79 bronco. I was stoped, it was moving at about 35 when it hit
and submarined under my bumper wrapping itself around the class 4 hitch. She
leaked all three vital colors, black, green and red ;-)! Once we got em
seperated (across the street) there wasnt a scratch on mine, Hers, that's
another story! She got the ticket also!

George
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:06:53 EST
From: GMontgo930 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - weird sights

In a message dated 12/17/99 6:40:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dennyk wenet.net writes:


Brad Smith wrote:
> Just thought I would add a funny story here... I had a friend helping me do
> brakes on my 78 once, and well, he didn't tighten his side down all the
way,
> guess he thought I was gonna come over there with the gun and zip his side
> down too... I didn't... Drove probably 50-60 miles before the left rear
came
> off... It was the funniest thing I have ever seen. I was coming to a stop,
> and the sucker jumps off, hits the wheel well in the rear, and takes off at
> about 50 mph... If you've never seen a 33" tire screaming down the street,
> you don't know what you've missed... The thing rolled for a good 1/2
mile...
> NO JOKE!! The road finally took a bend and it went up and embankment and
> stopped. I had to get a ride to go get my tire!! No major damage othre
> than wheel studs...Wasn't quite as funny then, but is hilarious now...
> Brad
>
> = >>

Been there in a similar situation. I was comming down out of the mountains
into Denver with my 73 F100. Well the Left rear wheel bearing failed &
seiezed up in the race (stil have the bearing). Anyway the tire departed teh
truck complete with the Brake drum, and axal shaft at 55 mph. I had pictures
of the axal scwering somebody as it bounced through the oncomming traffic of
the freeway. Lucky it didnt happen. Unlucklly, I had to get a 15 mile tow to
get back to base.

George
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:16:53 EST
From: GMontgo930 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - sick C6

In a message dated 12/18/99 10:25:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jlagrone ford-trucks.com writes:



It sounds like the tranny is slipping. First, some questions and answers.
What year is the transmission? C6s made before the 1976 model year required
Ford ATF. 76 and later C6s require Dexron ATF. My sister put Ford ATF in my
79 and it acted just as you describe. I found out when I tried to back up
with a half cord of firewood on board. I changed the ATF and filter and the
tranny has worked well ever since, about 7 years. I didn't drain the torque
converter. I didn't know you could without pulling it, but I believe some
one mentioned a drain plug in a past post.

Did you rebuild the C6 or just put in one that you were told was working? If
it was lying around in the weather, it may have picked up some moisture
inside. Did you change the fluid when you installed it? I think you get my
drift. If it was put in without examination, then it may be worn out and
need a rebuild. Personally, I'd try the fluid and filter first unless you
put the tranny back together yourself and know what's there.

Goo >>

I dont mean to start another debate here, but Ive got a '79 Bronco w c6. Ive
always run Type F in it and never had any problems. I know it's been flushed
and refilled several times (like when the seal went on the way to Oklahoma
city and I used a case got travel 150 miles). Then new rebuilt one I recently
installed also runs on Type F and it's from a '78 6 pack. Either Ive got two
exceptions, or somthng is screwy in kansas!

George
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:18:21 -0800
From: "Jeff Norville"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Choke heater tube

Howdy:

Here's one for the M-block fans - dunno if all Fords have one.

Broke that little tube assembly that sits on the passenger side of the carb
on the intake manifold; exchanges heat from the exhaust to the choke. A
1/4" tube drops from the air cleaner to the intake, coils inside the hot
intake (where the exhaust recircs in the m-blocks I think), then bolts onto
the choke.

How hot do you suppose this gets?

Late last night (new motor fever) I soldered this together using copper
tubing to shim the areas I mashed... But now I wonder if that was such a
grand idea.

Now back to the garage to align the clutch and hunt down my hoist chain.

Jeff
79 Bronco
351M (it was time) -> 400
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:26:10 EST
From: GMontgo930 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Sick C6

In a message dated 12/17/99 5:40:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
fishinbrad mindspring.com writes:


Sounds like your low / reverse clutches are shot... You can try changing the
fluid, but honestly if it hasn't been done in a while it can show you more
problems than it will fix. Sounds like you are up for a rebuild... BTW - I
encourage anyone who has never rebuilt an A/T to just do it. Kits for these
things are cheap (like $40) as are bands ($10-$25).. and if it all fails,
and you end up having to buy a bone yard model, you've only lost $50 and
some time... Well worth it to me, instead of paying $800-$1600 for the
rebuild. I have done several now, and I absolutely love it! There are
books available from ATSG that tke you through the whole thing step by
step... Really can't go wrong. :)

>>
I agree. I needed to swap out the tail shaft betwen two c6's, one from a 4wd
and one from a 2wd. Only way to do it was to pull most og the guts out, valve
body, front pump, intermediate band, gearpack. It'was in enlightening
condition. Im planning on rebuilding this tranny and then putting it back
into my bronco. It feels like it's got the wide ratio gearset vs the standard
one in what's installed right now. Now, if only Ive got the courage to attack
the AXOD on my 91 Taurus (though it looks like a bad gearset in it). Lucky me!

George
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:43:38 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - sick C6

George, you have uncovered Ford's seceret.....All ford trannys LOVE Type F!
It's the only fluid I use :-) The owners manual for the 94 bird lists all
these numbers and mercon 3 and all that but then in parentheses it says
(Type F). Go figure! :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Ford ATF. 76 and later C6s require Dexron ATF. My sister put
> Ford ATF in my
> 79 and it acted just as you describe. I found out when I
> tried to back up
> with a half cord of firewood on board. I changed the ATF and
>
> I dont mean to start another debate here, but Ive got a '79
> Bronco w c6. Ive
> always run Type F in it and never had any problems. I know
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:49:37 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Choke heater tube

Doesn't get as hot as the manifold but it gets hot enough to burn your
fingers for sure. If you notice, the original has an insulated tube on it
to keep it hot because the air passing over it is sufficient to take away
it's steam if you get my drift :-) Solder will be on the edge of shaky
probably but may hold up, don't really know for sure.

Right now I don't recall if that is an actual open line to the exhaust or
just a hot air plenum heated by the exhaust??

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Broke that little tube assembly that sits on the passenger
> side of the carb
> on the intake manifold; exchanges heat from the exhaust to
> the choke. A
>
> How hot do you suppose this gets?
>
> Late last night (new motor fever) I soldered this together
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:11:02 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Toys and stuff....

Well, since I'm sitting here bored to death and have a credit card in my
wallet and a computer in front of me I got to looking around in Northern
Hydraulic and Harbor Freight for some stuff I've been meaning to get but
couldn't really justify but since I'm working 4 days of the Holidays I
figure "What the Hey!"

Got me a 200,000 btu propane heater for the barn and a professional 30 gal
parts washer with a 280 gph pump, special seals and all the goodies. Sits
on a oil drum and runs on as little as 5 gal which happens to be the size
pail I can get mineral spirits in locally. Now I'm trying to get Harbor
Freight to pick up the stupid phone before I go home so I can see what their
price is on the mineral spirits in larger quantities.

Anyone have a good, cheap source for drums of mineral spirits?

Already have the sheet metal and all the parts I need for the bronco, will
have the heater middle of next week (paid dearly for that!) and washer
regular ground delivery (no hurry on that :-)) Still have to figure out how
to hook up the heater to my big tanks out back, safely and to code so will
probably enlist the services of my propane dealer next week to help me hook
it up. I want a quick disconnect permanently mounted to the barn wall in a
convenient location to the rear of the hoist so I can put a fan behind it
and gently blow the heat into my work area. Have to figure out a safe route
for the pipe and also what kind of pipe to use etc..

In a few minutes I will go home and sit in front of the TV since I now have
no money to go anywhere......:-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:16:12 EST
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Toys and stuff....

In a message dated 12/18/99 2:13:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gpeters3 visteon.com writes:

> Anyone have a good, cheap source for drums of mineral spirits?

My local parts guy gave me a parts cleaner which is mineral spirit based in a
30 gallon drum for $100. That's $3.33 per gallon. I thought that to be
reasonable and it worked excellent when I did my rebuild.

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (HELP!---I need 15 x5 factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 18:55:27 -0500
From: Marvin Meyer
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Toys and stuff....

For pipe use 3/4" because 1/2" is only good up to 80k btu, then decreases
as run increases. Sch-40 black regular NPT, so local hardware store can
supply fit'ns.
You may consider 3/4" copper with flared compression fittings too. For
quick disconnect use a regular air fitting disconnect, worked for my BBQ
7yrs still no leaks, tested at 150psig.

When done, code states to pressurize system for minimum of 20 min at
40psig, but I go for 1hr (can't compromise safety on their part due to
labor/time constraints). There is a new plastic type pipe similar to the
gas company, I really don't know much about it though (steel/copper guy
myself)

Cheap mineral spirits = Castrol CL1248 not sure of price but we use 18,000
USG a month, slightly acidic (won't damage your skin, operators constantly
submerged in it all day) super at removing used parts that
have been on a truck for 25yrs. Somewhere around .56/gallon usg
Good Luck!
Marvin
meyer strat.net


Anyone have a good, cheap source for drums of mineral spirits?

Still have to figure out how
to hook up the heater to my big tanks out back, safely and to code so will
probably enlist the services of my propane dealer next week to help me hook
it up. I want a quick disconnect permanently mounted to the barn wall in a
convenient location to the rear of the hoist so I can put a fan behind it
and gently blow the heat into my work area. Have to figure out a safe
route
for the pipe and also what kind of pipe to use etc..

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 19:06:36 EST
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Toys and stuff....

In a message dated 12/18/99 7:03:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, meyer strat.net
writes:

> Cheap mineral spirits = Castrol CL1248 not sure of price but we use 18,000
> USG a month, slightly acidic (won't damage your skin, operators constantly
> submerged in it all day) super at removing used parts that
> have been on a truck for 25yrs. Somewhere around .56/gallon usg

I wonder if the fact that your company uses 18,000 gallons a month might
explain the $.56 per gallon price?

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (HELP!---I need 15 x5 factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 20:04:31 EST
From: FORDTRKNUT aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 73-79 Bed Found!!!

Hey all!!! I was at a junkyard in Allentown PA this morning. I got a tilt
colunm out of a 1979 F150 two wheel drive pickup. The colunm from a 2wd will
absolutely fit a 4wd truck (or 78/79 Bronco). All that is required is to
remove the double sided splined adapter from the bottom. The bed on the back
(single square gas door...1977-1/2 to 1979, 8 Foot) was near mint. There was
no rust on the wheel arches, or corners. I asked about the price and they
said $165.00 minus the tailgate & tailights. I would have bought it but I
already have an extra 8 foot rust free bed. If you live near Allentown, PA
get in touch with Harry's U Pull It Of ALLENTOWN. It is Harrys U Pull Its
"Satellite Location". They are at 1510 East Jonathane Street in Allentown,
PA 18103. There phone number is 1-610-433-9901. If there are any
questions....JUST ASK!!! Wayne Grabley
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 21:12:52 -0500
From: Ted Wnorowski
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Toys and stuff....

At 02:11 PM 12/18/99 -0500, you wrote:

> and Harbor Freight for some stuff I've been meaning to get

I hope your not in a hurry.They have some decent prices and most
of the time offer free shipping. But, if it wasn't made overseas, (hence
the name Harbor Freight) they take their time getting the product to you.
Otherwise they are a good place to shop. To easy in fact. STUPID ONLINE
SHOPPING. ; ) It gets addictive!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ted Wnorowski
Bellevue,OH
' 64 F-250
352 transplant
4 speed
' 63 F-100
parts truck

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 21:10:14 -0500
From: "Brad Smith"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - sick C6

>
> I dont mean to start another debate here, but Ive got a '79 Bronco w c6.
Ive
> always run Type F in it and never had any problems. I know it's been
flushed
> and refilled several times (like when the seal went on the way to
Oklahoma
> city and I used a case got travel 150 miles). Then new rebuilt one I
recently
> installed also runs on Type F and it's from a '78 6 pack. Either Ive got
two
> exceptions, or somthng is screwy in kansas!
>
> George

I agree with you... I know that even the Che*y boys run type F to make their
trannys shift a little harder... Never heard of any probs in a C-6 running
type F..

Brad


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 21:12:49 -0500
From: "Brad Smith"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Sick C6

- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Sick C6


> In a message dated 12/17/99 5:40:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> fishinbrad mindspring.com writes:
>
>
> Sounds like your low / reverse clutches are shot... You can try changing
the
> fluid, but honestly if it hasn't been done in a while it can show you
more
> problems than it will fix. Sounds like you are up for a rebuild... BTW -
I
> encourage anyone who has never rebuilt an A/T to just do it. Kits for
these
> things are cheap (like $40) as are bands ($10-$25).. and if it all fails,
> and you end up having to buy a bone yard model, you've only lost $50 and
> some time... Well worth it to me, instead of paying $800-$1600 for the
> rebuild. I have done several now, and I absolutely love it! There are
> books available from ATSG that tke you through the whole thing step by
> step... Really can't go wrong. :)
>
> >>
> I agree. I needed to swap out the tail shaft betwen two c6's, one from a
4wd
> and one from a 2wd. Only way to do it was to pull most og the guts out,
valve
> body, front pump, intermediate band, gearpack. It'was in enlightening
> condition. Im planning on rebuilding this tranny and then putting it back
> into my bronco. It feels like it's got the wide ratio gearset vs the
standard
> one in what's installed right now. Now, if only Ive got the courage to
attack
> the AXOD on my 91 Taurus (though it looks like a bad gearset in it). Lucky
me!
>
Good luck with the AXOD... I have never done one, but I haer they are a
beast! The A4LD in the Rangers and explorers are pretty straight forward,
but the AXOD has a reputation!! Let me know how it goes if you tackle it...

Brad


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 21:40:20 -0500
From: Marvin Meyer
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Toys and stuff....

Not that much of a price reduction, compared to other customers were small as this is a base for making other mineral based products
meyer strat.net


I wonder if the fact that your company uses 18,000 gallons a month might
explain the $.56 per gallon price?


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 22:04:44 -0500
From: "Brad Smith"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - C-6 and ATSG

Hey, I found a phone number for you... 800-245-7722.
This is the number to ATSG, where you will be able to get any book for
foreign or domestic trannys!!

Brad


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 19:07:58 -0800
From: Marv Miller
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Taco'd

>Lisa first said that Envy's rival in a steel upon plastic encounter got "Taco-ed"

>After which Rollie asked "What does Taco-ed mean"?

Loosly translated, it means "folded back upon itself", sort of like a taco shell.
Generally applied to what happens when very wide alloy rims hit something like a curb or
railroad track. They get bent in a funny way, which is "taco'd".

- -M-

Marv Miller mailto:ae722 lafn.org
"Striving to be the person
that my dog thinks I am".
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 19:45:15 -0800
From: "Kory A. Kneeland"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - cool EB project, and a sad ending

Hey there FTE,

I've spent the better part of this last week giving my 71 Bronco some sweet
lovin'. I replaced my left hand outer tie rod, my drag link, and the
bushings on my track bar. What a job! I can believe how much time I put
into just beating on stuff for this project. Usually it's work smarter not
harder, but on this one...it's just plain ol' elbow grease that gets it
done. I got it all put back together and took her on a road test -- she ran
great and the steering was a ton tighter! The sad ending is, that when I
was back at the place, I went to back my Bronco out of the garage and backed
right into my brother's little girlie rice burner. I was only rolling
backwards, not even in the throttle in the least, I even forgot I was
rolling, and then wammo....I crunched it! I guess that deductible money
won't get used on my new clutch after all. Bummer-salad.

Gotta love life! :)

Kory
kakneeland home.com
'71 EB w/302 & 3.03 tranny

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 22:55:47 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Web site updates

Pictorial additions:

1950 F1
1965 F250 Camper Special
1972 F600
1979 F350

Later,
Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 20:05:30 PST
From: "Mark Mcknight"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - For sale

73-77 Ford F-250 4x4
For whole or parts
Needs a fuel pump... not sure of the engine, definitly big block, other than
the fuel pump, it runs good
body is really rough... tranny+tcase and diffs are good condition. Would
make a good bush truck or parts
$400 or best offer
In Elmvale Ontario Canada

- -Mark-
85' F-150
78' F-100
73-77' F-250
______________________________________________________

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 23:53:57 EST
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 78 250 van parts for 460 swap

scavenge the oil pan, it should be a rear sump, which is required for a 4x4,
unless you have a good bit of lift.

jeff grant
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 00:19:35 EST
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - weird sights

one of our sales reps was towing a new 1000 gallon water trailer (it was
empty) down interstate i-75, this thing had huge 12.5 L flotation tires on
it, when he arrived at his destination 150 miles down the road he was missing
one tire, hub and everything, and knowing this guy he was running 80-90 MPH,
there is no telling where that tire ended up. he never felt anything.


jeff grant
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 21:25:02 PST
From: "gene gardner"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - squealing heater

I bet I'm not the only one with this little problem: my heater blower fan
squeals for 5-15 seconds when I first turn it on. OK so it has a dry
bearing, but how can I lubricate it? Sure would be a nice Christmas present
if someone were to tell me I didn't have to remove the unit .......


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