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Subject: 61-79-list-digest V3 #456
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61-79-list-digest Sunday, December 12 1999 Volume 03 : Number 456



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 61-79 - Oil pickup, timing cover
FTE 61-79 - can somebody decode these
RE: FTE 61-79 - 2x4 cab mounts
RE: FTE 61-79 - 460 into a 65
RE: FTE 61-79 - duraspark conversion woes
FTE 61-79 - First 351M (400?) Rebuild
FTE 61-79 - More computer stuff (it is saturday after all :-))
RE: FTE 61-79 - First 351M (400?) Rebuild
FTE 61-79 - pitman arms
FTE 61-79 - Support FTE!!!
FTE 61-79 - RE: need someone to decode for me
RE: FTE 61-79 - need someone to decode for me
FTE 61-79 - Oil pickup hard to find...
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Charity Event
FTE 61-79 - Starter noises
Re: FTE 61-79 - First 351M (400?) Rebuild
RE: FTE 61-79 - 2x4 cab mounts
Re: FTE 61-79 - Oil pickup hard to find...
FTE 61-79 - 460 - hard to start
FTE 61-79 - New noise coming from under truck
Re: FTE 61-79 - First 351M (400?) Rebuild
FTE 61-79 - Sparkle plugs
Re: FTE 61-79 - 71 C-6 - 429 Thunderbird-Oppps
Re: FTE 61-79 - Electrical problem
Re: FTE 61-79 - New noise coming from under truck
FTE 61-79 - Things about Springs
Re: FTE 61-79 - Parking Brake Broke
FTE 61-79 - San Francisco people
Re: FTE 61-79 - Parking Brake Broke
Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 into a 65
FTE 61-79 - Re: 429 T-Birds
FTE 61-79 - Head Gasket
FTE 61-79 - mid 70's F250 4X4 crewcab
Re: FTE 61-79 - can somebody decode these
FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: FTE Anniversary
Re: FTE 61-79 - Head Gasket

=======================================================================

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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:50:59 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Oil pickup, timing cover

This should cost about $20 and should be available most places. On a 335
series motor you absolutely should not use the old one. Last one I bought
for my 460, rear sump was $18.00.

The text book we used in the engine classes I took say that the proper way
to align a front seal is to install the spacers and dampers in the seal, all
the parts that normally will run in the seal then install the bolts loosely
and allow the seal to align itself to the damper or spacer sleeve then
carefully tighten the bolts in such a way that you do not disturb the
position of the cover. You should always install the timing cover before
installing the oil pan for this reason. The pan gaskets will influence the
position of the timing cover and won't allow the seal to center itself.
There should be no obstruction touching the cover when installing it for
these reasons. Put a little motor oil or grease on the seal before
instaling the damper too and make sure everything is clean.

I know of no alignment tool which will do a better job of aligning the seal
to the part that runs in it than the part itself :-) Use common sense. If
there is any side loading on the seal which forces one side and relieves
pressure on the other side you will have uneven wear and eventually it will
leak. This is one of the reasons you have trouble if you have to take it
off after installing the pan because you can never get that same equilibrium
you had at first due to pan gasket influence etc.....

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Howdy:
>
> I'm having as tough time finding the oil pickup (intake)
> assembly for my 79
> Bronco (new 400 going in). Options are:

> P/S. Advice on the alignment tool for the front seal on the
> timing chain
> cover - why can't I align the cover with the harmonic
> balancer installed to
> act as the guide? Mighty Chilton says get the tool...
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:57:40 -0400
From: joe delaurentis
Subject: FTE 61-79 - can somebody decode these

Can somebody decode these 2 intake Codes...
C80E-9425-C
C80E-C9E17
I know its from 68...and there FE 4 Barrels..Cast iron but from what?
390,428, 427????


- --
Joe
68 4x4 390 c6- Np 205 Dana 44 with Disc Brakes,
Since Ford Didn't build em this way in 68, I'll make my own!


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:04:21 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 2x4 cab mounts

I'm not sure what you mean by this? If the mount is trashed, that is the
steel part of it, then the floor is probably very suspect as well so you
have to repair the "area" not just one small part of it to get it sound
again. If it's just the rubber then replace the rubber but if the mount
surface is gone you need a welder IMHSHO.

My front cab mounts cost $32/pc from JCW. Haven't looked at them yet so
can't say if they are any good but they will have to be welded in and
probably some other sheet metal will have to be repaired as well. Since its
under the body and out of sight I'm not too concerned about how it looks
when I'm done but I'm reasonably sure I can also make it look pretty darned
good as well :-)

If you don't weld, most of these things can be done with bolts or rivets too
and since it's not a resto then looks won't be an issue either but I
certainly would not waste my time sticking some stuff in there I spent money
on just to watch as it falls back out again or doesn't fix the problem I was
trying to fix. One caution though if you use rivets.......use the same
material you are using to repair the part with and that should be the same
material as the part as well so there is no corrosion problems and the
strength will be there. Aluminum rivets are brittle and soft compared to
steel and there are larger shanked rivets too for heavier jobs but you have
to have the dies for your rivet gun to use them. The neat thing about
riveting it first is that you can always go back over it with a welder later
if you like the fix. Sheet metal is often repaired this way to prevent
warpage as it is welded into place.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> I'll defer to the list again: anybody have any negative input
> about bolting
> new mounts over the old? I really like fixing things right
> the first time
> but this is not a resto project (not supposed to be, anyway).
> Translated,
> I'm looking for the best combination of safety, mechanical
> function and
> cost.
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:22:39 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 460 into a 65

Haven't seen any response to this so here goes......

The 460 can be mounted in anything that will hold it and the weight is close
enough to the FE engine that suspension should not be an issue. If it is
you can always throw in some helper springs over the shocks to make it up.

The Fe and 460 do not mount the same way but I understand the mount holes
for the stanchions for the 460 are already in the cross member in a 2wd.
Not sure how they work in the 4wd but for 2wd you need the stancheons and
after market mounts from L&L or some other. FE's mount front and rear,
460's mount in the center and use the tranny as the rear mount.

FE's and 460's do not use the same tranny bolt pattern either so lots of
things will have to be changed to make it work. There are articles up on
the FTE web site about these things :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> 4. what about the 460 swap? are there motor mounts that will
> allow me to
> use the FE motor supports, or do i need to get supports
> specifically for the
> 460? I know that a lot of folks have done the 460 swap, I
> just dont know
> the "accepted" procedure.
> 5. what about the FE springs, are they beefy enough to hold
> up a 460. or is
> the extra 150 or so pounds going to make my nose drag the ground?
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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:40:46 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - duraspark conversion woes

The problem with turning it with a wrench is that with pressure on the shaft
it won't "slip" into place. It needs the jogging action of the starter
motor to "jog" or jolt the dizzy so it will not also turn the pump shaft at
the same time. As I pointed out before, the best way I've found to do this
takes a little patience but does not have the side effect of moving the
crank off the intended timing mark in the process. Pull the dizzy, move the
shaft a part of one flat and stick it back in. Remember that the gears are
helical so you have to back the dizzy up about 1/8 turn from the indended
position to get the right tooth interface each time. A little practice will
have you hitting it right on the nose every time :-)

If you jog it you will also have to re-align the crank for setting the
timing but if you have a remote start switch (made out of a horn button and
some wire and allegator clips) it's not a really issue to get it back on the
mark so either way will do fine but hand turning it probably will not get it
done :-)

Switching the wires IS NEVER INDICATED IMNSHO. Reasons for this have
already been stated. Even if you keep it yourself, a year from now you
won't remember what you did and it will cause you trouble. It is so much
nicer to always have number one in the same location on all your vehicles so
you don't have to figure it out every time. It may seem like a small thing
but it adds up over time. Such a simple thing as being able to "glance" at
the rotor for instance and instinctively recognizing it's relative position
to the engine saves time and makes any tuning job easier.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Well, we did pretty much the same thing, except I turned the
> flywheel with a
> wrench while Dad pushed and wiggled the dizzy. Still, I'll
> try your way next
> time Azie ...
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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 07:08:23 -0700
From: "Michael White"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - First 351M (400?) Rebuild

A friend of mine has asked me to rebuild his 351M which sits in his 79 F
series 2wd auto trans. I'm not familiar with the M blocks and would like to
know what book would be most helpful for this task. A book title and ISBN
number would sure be a great help.
What is needed to convert the 351M to a 400 CID? I'd also like some
advice on cam choices for the 400 with auto trans and headers. How about the
piston/ring choices and compression ratio options? Would it be best to build
at around 9:1?
Since the owner is used to driving a stock 351M, the extra 49 cubic
inches of a 400 should provide enough of an impression to keep him happy,
but a mildly improved (not radically improved) 400 built from the ground up
would really do the trick.

TIA


Danger
danger csolutions.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.csolutions.net/myth/


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:13:17 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - More computer stuff (it is saturday after all :-))

Got that box fired up last night and loaded my wife's Pirch program.
Everything comes up really quick now. Before it took about 2 minutes to
load all the names of the rooms available when you click on "chatrooms".
Last night I clicked on that button and before I could move the mouse to the
scroll bars it was loaded!! WOW! :-)

I was able to plug my old drive right in and copy the whole thing to the new
drive under folders called "Old D Drive" etc. so all my data is now
available to the new system and I can now give the old one to my wife's
cousin to save me some phone bills :-)

I must have misread the info in the store because I only have 8.5
gigs......bummer.....I thought it was 12 :-( Might have to go out and get
one of those 27 gig drives Egghead is always thumping :-) Had 2 gigs before
and couldn't fill it up so probably won't have too much trouble with it :-)
It uses shared ram with the main ram for video and will use up to 11 megs as
needed apparently. Anyway I moved almost 2 gigs of data and programs to the
new system in a matter of minutes because I was able to just plug and play,
didn't even have to mess with the bios, COOL! Hard drive bay was hard to
access for plugging in the wires though (I really like my HUGE tower case
:-)) Of course all the programs will have to be reloaded to register them
all in the C drive since I don't want to redo the whole computer just for
some silly partitions. I understand the old partition/cluster/file size
problem is now not an issue?

One comment on windows 98 I've noticed so far is the login for dial up
networking.....it doesn't have the connect speed on the screen any
more......bummer! Now I have to move the mouse and click on some tiny icon
in the task bar to see the connect speed. I hate it when progress makes me
have to work harder..........:-(

If I have time tonight I will try to do something with ICQ and hook up with
a few of you but I've never used it so will be learning tonight if all goes
well. Still have to get the bronco and chain out to pull my wife out of the
computer chair to get to the computer myself even to fix it for her :-)
I've really created a monster there for sure........:-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:19:46 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - First 351M (400?) Rebuild

Only thing with the stock heads on this engine is spark knock if you push
the compression too high. This can be controlled with the cam to some
extent but this engine is not as forgiving as the 460 design so keep that in
mind as you make your choices. Others have built this engine so can fill
you in on the particulars.

Crank and pistons are all you need to change. The rods are the same and
compresson height in the piston is changed to accomodate the extra throw of
the crank.

Tom Monroe has a good book by HP books on these engines. I think it may
even be available on the FTE site, not sure.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> know what book would be most helpful for this task. A book
> title and ISBN
> number would sure be a great help.
> What is needed to convert the 351M to a 400 CID? I'd also
> like some
> advice on cam choices for the 400 with auto trans and
> headers. How about the
> piston/ring choices and compression ratio options? Would it
> be best to build
> at around 9:1?
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:19:41 -0600
From: "Bob & Becky Elliott"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - pitman arms

Another way to get pitman arm & tie rod ends apart is like Gary said, Back
the nut down to the bottom of the threads, then add a bottle jack under the
nut and apply a SMALL amount of upward
preasure. Then do your tapping. Sometimes it just pops loose. Elliott

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:47:41 -0600
From: Ballinger
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Support FTE!!!

>
> check out the site and also browse the Hemmings
> Motor News site, you can search by subject. you might find your
> year manual in either of these sites. the books4cars has a
> three set manual for 1968, but i was unable to get someone on
> the phone (1-800 #) to see if they have it in stock. good luck!

We should look first in the FTE website, if we have it there it would
best to get it through FTE. Buying from our advertisers suports our
mailing list and associated costs. Besides, I don't think you'll find a
place on the web (or anywhere else) that has the selection of books you
can get there.

My nickel....
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:57:28 -0600
From: Ballinger
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: need someone to decode for me

> h
>
> Rich, what about the headers didn't fit? Was it a mismatch on the port
> size? I have a 390 in my 76 F250 running Dynomax headers from Jegs. The
> ports on my heads are small, some heads have huge ports. Header gaskets I
> bought would not work because they were for the large ports. Chances are
> you have the large ports for the GT engine for better breathing. The
> C8AE-H, C8 designates 1968. C for the decade and 8 for the year, ie B8=58
> C8=68 D8=78. Thats all I can decode from here, I need to look at my Ford HP
> parts book at home for the rest. The 390 was used for a lot of years in
> several different applications and configurations. You should be able to
> find a good aftermarket intake for the 390. I run a Edelbrok Streetmaster
> 390 dual plane intake on my truck. I hope this helps some.

Actually they are the small, low-cast exhaust ports, and about any of
the cheaper headers should fit them. You run into trouble when you come
to the tall, and cast 3/16 higher early ports like I have. I'm going to
have to grind the roof up on my header flanges to make them work, or buy
a set of Sanderson FF427's, which my budget will not even think of
allowing right now.
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:35:03 -0600
From: Ballinger
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - need someone to decode for me

> > I bought
> > the C8AE-H heads (which were advertised as GT heads) have a
> > smaller CC chamber
> > than most of the others, doesn't smaller CC mean higher C/R??
>
> Yes, assuming everything else equal...
>
>
> > Or
> > does the CC
> > value have to do with flow??
> >
> The combustion chamber flow is also affected, but it is more for the CR when
> they advertise volume ... design has more to do with flow than the volume
> does.
>
> > If I look at my old heads, they have a circle cut in the heads
> > where the vavles
> > sit. On my C8AE-H heads that's not true, they are flat up to the
> > point where
> > the vavle sit.
> >
>
> They're the GT/high compression heads then ... and the bolt pattern you
> described also supports this ... if you've got Steve Christ's book, you've
> likely got all the information in front of you ...
>
> Just my $.02
> wish

My '69 265 hp 2V regular fuel (9.5 to 1) 390 came with these heads too.
They have the jellybean shape chamber that runs from 68 to 71 cc's.
What mainly distinguishes them from most (but not all)earlier castings
is that the floor of the intake port is filled in and has a much more
pronounced drop as the port meets bowl, and the chamber of the early
(pre-C7, and some C6 castings) 390 heads are squared-off opposite the
plug more like the 427LR/ 428CJ, and displace 71-74 cc's. The C8AE-H
came to be the most common FE head casting of all, the later truck
casting that's as far as I can see identical is D2TE-AA.

Here's some flow data on these heads I found around:

C8AE-H

0.200 115 88 77%
0.300 168 122 73%
0.400 198 133 67%
0.500 202 139 69%

Total 683 482 71%

This is the early-style head:

C4AE-6090G

0.200 130 111 85%
0.300 180 135 75%
0.400 220 155 70%
0.500 236 165 70%

Total 766 566 74%

Here's an Edelbrock #6006 with 2.09/1.66 valves

Edelbrock 6006

0.200 149 112 75%
0.300 185 148 80%
0.400 222 183 82%
0.500 252 206 82%

Total 808 649 80%

And just to throw something interesting in here, this is an Edelbrock
Performer RPM #6071 angle-plug SB Chevy head

Chevy SB Angle Plug
6071 Performer RPM
0.200 134 105 78%
0.300 188 140 74%
0.400 224 160 71%
0.500 233 172 74%

Totsl 779 577 74%

The Edelbrock head pulled away after .500, but the Chevy didn't, BTW.

Info on the C8AE-H head was gathered from an article I read in Mustang
Illustrated, and was consistant with flow data from the same person who
supplied the data on the C4AE-6090G, at 28 inches of water. Edelbrock
data comes from their catalog.
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:44:23 -0600
From: Ballinger
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Oil pickup hard to find...

> Howdy:
>
> I'm having as tough time finding the oil pickup (intake) assembly for my 79
> Bronco (new 400 going in). Options are:
>
> 1) Magically remove/reuse the old one from oil pump - it's threaded but
> seems awfully tight (have scarred the metal a bit, and am close to tolerance
> of thin metal pipe) - I decided upon scarrage to find a new one...
>
> 2) Buy new from manufacturer - seems Ford can find one and get it sent
> here in two weeks or so.... For $60. Insult to injury.
>
> 3) Buy from 1980 - or non 4wd 79 trucks. I assume the gooseneck on the
> 79 4wd Bronco pickup is longer because it's reaching to the back of the pan
> - - most others must only go to the front (no differential for pan to clear).
> Broad assumption.
>
> Anybody found one of these or have any help with that magic wand?
>
> Thanks again - I appreciate the knowledge resource out there, and am always
> amazed by the answers.
>
> Jeff
>
> P/S. Advice on the alignment tool for the front seal on the timing chain
> cover - why can't I align the cover with the harmonic balancer installed to
> act as the guide? Mighty Chilton says get the tool..

An oil pump pick up is nothing to fool around with. If it sips a little
air, your bearings will be gone in a few minutes. Also your used one if
it's been around a while likely has the screen wire pulled away on one
side, this is a safety feature to make it by-pass when the screen gets
plugged. Throw it away, and if you have to get it from Ford, do it.
First though, check to see if Melling has one. I got one for my FE rear
sump 4X4 pan, if they have that, surely they have yours.
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:48:14 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: Charity Event

Well, its that time of year again. Ford Truck Enthusiasts
would like to use the power of all our list members to
help someone in need during this time of year. If you
know someone in dire straits, whether they are a list
member or not, please email me (off the list to keep the
traffic down) at kpayne ford-trucks.com.

I'll present all the charity submissions on Sunday on the
website, minus names, and we'll vote on who we want to
support. Last year, we raised about $750 in two weeks
for a very worthy cause. This year, I'm sure we can do
even more. Together, we have great strength.

Regards,
Ken Payne
Admin, Ford Truck Enthusiasts


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:50:15 -0600
From: Ballinger
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Starter noises

> The starter on my 71 F100 is making a whining noise while cranking and for
> a few seconds after the starter switch has been released. Sounds like a
> cheap electric drill. Although it works good it probably won't last long.
> I've never heard a starter make this particular noise before. Just out of
> curiosity, any of you technical types know what could be wrong with this 1
> year old starter.

Likely, your bushing in the rear is about shelled out, and if you don't
fix it it will crack or chew out the rear cone and destroy your
flywheel. It would be a good time to pull it and have it repaired (it's
not that hard to do yourself, BTW). AutoZone sells the brushes and the
rear bushing, just get a Parts Pro there to find them for you.
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:46:03 EST
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - First 351M (400?) Rebuild

In a message dated 12/11/99 9:09:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
danger csolutions.net writes:


know what book would be most helpful for this task. A book title and ISBN
number would sure be a great help. >>

Just my opinion, but the best one I have ever found for the 351C, 351M, 400M,
429, and 460 is, "How to rebuild your Ford V-8" by Tom Monroe, ISBN
0-89586-036-8. Most of the auto parts stores where I live carry these on the
shelf. This book gives you all of the specs and should let you make informed
decisions on how to modify your rebuild. Good Luck
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F250 4x4 460
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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:11:22 -0500
From: William King
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 2x4 cab mounts

Gene,
I went with the "bolt over" route, and it worked fine. If it weren't
that the mounts' sheet metal was so thin (and eventually buckled), it
would still be fine. As long as you get quality mounts (ie strong
enough), I can't complain about the bolt-in mounts. If you're not
worried about a restoration, don't worry about welding them in.
Ohio Bill

>>>snip
>I'll defer to the list again: anybody have any negative input about bolting
>new mounts over the old? I really like fixing things right the first time
>but this is not a resto project (not supposed to be, anyway). Translated,
>I'm looking for the best combination of safety, mechanical function and
>cost. I know it's a judgment call I've got to make myself, but I could use
>some more info from the guys that have already dealt with this. Seems to be
>a pretty common problem.
>>>snipo
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:12:26 PST
From: "George Litton"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Oil pickup hard to find...

JEFF,

I work at an engine rebuilder in the northwest, and we always get them from
Melling. They are the largest supplier of oil pumps and related components
in the U.S.

Just a suggestion. Good Luck!

George Litton in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho


>From: "Jeff Norville"
>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>To: FTE
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Oil pickup hard to find...
>Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 00:24:21 -0800
>
>Howdy:
>
>I'm having as tough time finding the oil pickup (intake) assembly for my 79
>Bronco (new 400 going in). Options are:
>
>1) Magically remove/reuse the old one from oil pump - it's threaded but
>seems awfully tight (have scarred the metal a bit, and am close to
>tolerance
>of thin metal pipe) - I decided upon scarrage to find a new one...
>
>2) Buy new from manufacturer - seems Ford can find one and get it sent
>here in two weeks or so.... For $60. Insult to injury.
>
>3) Buy from 1980 - or non 4wd 79 trucks. I assume the gooseneck on the
>79 4wd Bronco pickup is longer because it's reaching to the back of the pan
>- most others must only go to the front (no differential for pan to clear).
>Broad assumption.
>
>Anybody found one of these or have any help with that magic wand?
>
>Thanks again - I appreciate the knowledge resource out there, and am always
>amazed by the answers.
>
>Jeff
>
>P/S. Advice on the alignment tool for the front seal on the timing chain
>cover - why can't I align the cover with the harmonic balancer installed to
>act as the guide? Mighty Chilton says get the tool...
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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 10:43:12 -0800
From: "Robert J. Neilson"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460 - hard to start

Hi people. I am new to this list, so please feel free to yell at me if this
posting is too long or if it is about something that gets discussed over and
over and over - and you are sick of hearing about it.

I just bought a 79 F250 SuperCab. I have a 77 F150 4x4 that I have had for
years, and I love the truck. Well, my family is too big to fit (legally) on
one bench seat - so I had to get the new truck. New trucks (up here) cost
about $40,000 - so you can guess the rest.

Anyway, I paid basically nothing for the new truck. The body is sound (that
was all I cared about - 'cause up here (Vancouver-Canada) rust is the main
problem in anything older than 10 years). Cab mounts, floor boards, and rear
wheel wells are basically rust free. Mechanically the thing needed a bit of
work. So far I have completely redone the brakes, steering and suspension, and
now it is time to get the engine/tranny in shape. This truck is to be my
everyday driving vehicle, and must be super reliable - as anyone who has
broken down with young kids and a wife in the car knows.

The engine is basically strong. It drives well (smooth and pulls well), but it
is a major pain to start when it is cold. In my other truck I press the gas
pedal twice to set the choke and to get a bit of fuel in there, turn the key,
and vroom - it starts right up every time. The new truck is just a bitch to
get going. I went through 3 batteries the other day (I have a few vehicles).
When I bought the truck the previous owner told me that he put a new (probably
rebuilt) carb on it. I didn't ask 'why', but probably should have. The engine
is stock. The electrical and charging system is fine. Compression is OK - not
great - but at least all cyls are even (lowest=115, highest-120).

My suspicion is that the choke isn't working, or possibly that there is a
problem with the intake manifold, but I know nothing about these types of
carbs or engines, so I ask you all:

- does the stock intake manifold on a 460 have a 'crossover' passage? I used
to have a Barracuda which was hard to start and it ended up that this passage
was blocked. Once I pulled the manifold and tanked it everything was fine. Is
this a known problem on 460's?

- how does the choke work? Can I test whether it is working without pulling
the carb off?

- if the choke is not working, are there 'things' inside the card that can be
out of whack? How long does it take to rebuild one yourself? Is it better to
rebuild or to just buy a new carb?

- is there anything else that you can think of that might make this engine
hard to start?

and finally ...

- if I was to buy a new carb, what would be the best bet for reliability and
fuel economy. I have a friend who only uses Carters, another guy I know says
Holleys are better. I have absolutely no idea (and I don't care) - I just want
a good reliable, stock, smooth running truck. What is your opinion?

Rob --


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:00:38 -0500
From: Garry Bowling
Subject: FTE 61-79 - New noise coming from under truck

Well the other day I was coming home from work and noticed or heard a
new noise that definately not natural coming from my truck. I
immediately thought could I have a bearing going. I recently replaced
the rear end and don't think thats it. I did not notice any noise from
the front wheels. However I think the transmission is the culprit. The
tranny is a C-6. It shifts fine in all gears. The noise however is
still there regardless of the gear I am in. The noise is like what you
hear from a 4Whl Drive with brand new all terrain tires. I have radials
on mine so I know its not that. Anyway I just noticed that transmission
fluid is leaking around the yoke. Is it possible that a bearing in the
end of the transmission has gone out. I am going to pull the drive
shaft out and remove the yoke and the back part of the tranmission. If
any one has had this happen to them any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Garry Bowling
1967 F100 Longbed

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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:39:05 -0800
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - First 351M (400?) Rebuild

Definitely get the Monroe book that Burt Hill mentioned. It has a lot of
helpful info in it. All you need to convert the 341M into a 400 is the crank
and pistons. Everything else is the identical.

There aren't many choices for piston/ring but I did find some cast flat top
9:1 pistons for my 400 from Ohio Piston & Pin. I have a mail order source
for them that will get them drop shipped to you at jobber price plus
shipping. That's about $4-$5 less a piece than I found them local or through
a machine shop. I can give you the 800 # if you want it. Other than that
you're basically stuck with stock c:r of around 8.5:1.

I agonized for quite awhile over the cam choice for my 400 and finally
narrowed it down to these choices:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.pacifier.com/~bbeyer/Cam_Comp.htm . I went with the Crower at
the top. It has quite a bit of lift and since the engine is still on the
stand in my shop I can't give you any performance specs yet. I installed it
straight up after degreeing it in (thanks to fellow FTE Muel Samuels) with a
double roller timing set.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"


- ----- Original Message -----
From: Michael White
To: FTE List
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 6:08 AM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - First 351M (400?) Rebuild


> A friend of mine has asked me to rebuild his 351M which sits in his 79
F
> series 2wd auto trans. I'm not familiar with the M blocks and would like
to
> know what book would be most helpful for this task. A book title and ISBN
> number would sure be a great help.
> What is needed to convert the 351M to a 400 CID? I'd also like some
> advice on cam choices for the 400 with auto trans and headers. How about
the
> piston/ring choices and compression ratio options? Would it be best to
build
> at around 9:1?
> Since the owner is used to driving a stock 351M, the extra 49 cubic
> inches of a 400 should provide enough of an impression to keep him happy,
> but a mildly improved (not radically improved) 400 built from the ground
up
> would really do the trick.



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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:59:35 -0500
From: "Brad Smith"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Sparkle plugs

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Peters, Gary (G.R.)
To:
Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 12:04 PM
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Re 400 Clutch.


> My only concern with Champions was with motorcycles where they fouled in a
> matter of minutes and on one occasion I bought a set for a v8 and 2 of
them
> were dead. I never had a failure with NGK and have just begun to use
> Autolite again so we'll see how that goes :-) There certainly is a
> difference in the strategy behind the design from brand to brand. I would
> like to support our local economy by using American made stuff but if it
> doesn't work.........:-(
>
> --
> Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
> 78 Bronco Loving, Gary
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
> --
>
> > Of course... I have never had a Champion Plug reliability
> > issue in the last
> > two+ decades!-)
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

In reply to the spark plugs topic, everyone has a favorite. I have always
run Bosch platinums, because even in my rich running truck they have never
fouled on me, however last time I was at the dyno, the guy running it said
that he would buy me a set of whatever kinda plugs I wanted if I installed
standard copper autolites, and they didn't improve my performance... OK,
sounds like a deal, so I did - got 8 hp outta those suckers, whodathunkit?
Input from a stricktly performance point of view....
Brad 78 F150 429

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:01:39 -0500
From: "Brad Smith"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 71 C-6 - 429 Thunderbird-Oppps

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Peters, Gary (G.R.)
To:
Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 12:28 PM
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 71 C-6 - 429 Thunderbird-Oppps


> Just realized the tbird is a 71.....says so right in the subject and I
> looked too.... :-) 71's should be the good ones :-)
>
> --
> Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
> 78 Bronco Loving, Gary
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
> --
>
> > What year is the Bird? Do you still have the heads?
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

Yeah! 71's are the good ones 11.5:1 I think... Just remember to have
hardened seats put in em unless you plan to use lead addative...
Just purchased a set of these heads to put on my truck!!!

Brad 78 F150 429


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 16:16:00 -0500
From: "Brad Smith"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Electrical problem

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Cantrell
To:
Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Electrical problem


> My bet is the alternator. Have you checked it's output voltage?
>
> Matthew Schwartz wrote:
>
> > I have a great electrical problem. Symptoms include a battery that will
> > drainin a few days if the truck is not run. Other symptoms include
extremely
> > dim interior lights and headlights when running or not. Another symptom
may
> > be more important for diagnosis. The dash lights, at times, will flash
and
> > both dash blinker indicators will stay on solid...then everything will
go
> > off...then normal...then back to the lights dimming... with the
exception of
> > the blinker indicators which stay on bright.
> >
> > Before I start tracing current through wires with an ammeter, has anyone
> > found a culprit to these symptoms?
> >
> > I know.....start tracing wires :
> >
> > Matt
> >
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

Sounds more like youve got a drain somewhere, like an overactive clock, or
more likely a indicator switch, headlight switch, or other related wiring...
Good luck...
Brad


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:59:31 EST
From: Bad4dFilly aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - New noise coming from under truck

In a message dated 12/11/1999 8:03:46 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
garrya bellsouth.net writes:


new noise that definately not natural coming from my truck >>

Didja check your tires?? *wink* =P

*~*~Lisa and Envy~*~*
*~*~SIlly boys..trucks are for GIRLS!~*~*
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 18:55:22 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Things about Springs

About 1-1/2 years ago, I installed a new set of leaf springs on the rear of
my F-100 4x4. Since they were custom-made, I had asked the guys to build in a
3" lift into them, hoping I could replace my rear blocks. Well, they did
this, but I ended up with a leaf pack that was 10 leaves thick, making the
ride extra rough. I wasn't too deterred by the large number of springs,
because the mickey lift kit that was there before consisted of about 10
springs, several of which were out of a Chevy! I ran this setup for about 15
years without any "weird" behavior.

Anyway, the thing I noticed was right at about 45 mph, a vibration from the
rear would start, and then ramp off at close to 50. You could feel the rear
actually bouncing up and down.

Well, to make a long story short, just this weekend, after quite a bit of
trial-and-error, I wound up with 5 springs (these happened to be non-tapered,
as pointed out to me by Dave R.), one stock overload spring, and 2-1/2"
blocks. Finally, the vibration has stopped. I'm not sure if it had something
do with the non-tapered springs or what, but anywhere between 6 and 10 leafs,
the vibration would occur.

The reason I'm posting this is that if you are considering having custom
springs made, try to ask some questions about somehow matching the spring
rates to the vehicle....or something like that!!!!!!

CJ




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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:20:52 -0700
From: "Kiernan, Denny"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Parking Brake Broke

I dont know much about trucks but I thought it was supposed to brake,
not break.

The parking brake on my '72, (foot-operated) broke off. That is, the
"control assembly" broke just short of the bolt that attaches it to the
dash, so it's now suspended from the two other bolts attached to the
vertical wall toward the front. I was wondering if anybody had any idea
why this should happen.

The assembly now wants to be about an inch toward the left where it's
broken, and if I push it back to line it up where it was, you can see
that it's putting a strain on the bolts in front. Maybe just years and
years of stomping on the brake with something of a leftward motion
instead of straight-ahead bent whatever the front bolts are attached
to? Or I bent something when I hit a car a couple years ago and mashed
in my front left headlight area?

Anybody else ever have one break?

Denny
'72 F-100 360 2WD Manual everything, 140K
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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:37:18 -0700
From: "Kiernan, Denny"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - San Francisco people

Are there any members of the list who are in or near San Francisco? If
so, I'd like to talk with them and see if I could get some info on any
good mechanics they might know, etc.. After the recent clutch job, I'm
still looking for somebody who does good work.
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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:37:50 EST
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Parking Brake Broke

In a message dated 12/11/99 8:32:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dennyk wenet.net writes:


> Anybody else ever have one break?

I never had one break but I had several that you couldn't push down with two
feet! I suspect that something in the works was starting to seize up.
Likely it would be the cables. You should consider replacing that pedal
assembly and checking to make sure the cables are all free and well lubed
from front to back.

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (HELP!---I need 15 x5 factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee

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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:52:08 -0800
From: "bronco66"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 460 into a 65

i have a 72 f100 i converted to a 429SCJ from a 360. I used the L&L mounts
and towers. It is a great bolt on conversion.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Peters, Gary (G.R.)
To:
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 5:22 AM
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 460 into a 65


> Haven't seen any response to this so here goes......
>
> The 460 can be mounted in anything that will hold it and the weight is
close
> enough to the FE engine that suspension should not be an issue. If it is
> you can always throw in some helper springs over the shocks to make it up.
>
> The Fe and 460 do not mount the same way but I understand the mount holes
> for the stanchions for the 460 are already in the cross member in a 2wd.
> Not sure how they work in the 4wd but for 2wd you need the stancheons and
> after market mounts from L&L or some other. FE's mount front and rear,
> 460's mount in the center and use the tranny as the rear mount.
>
> FE's and 460's do not use the same tranny bolt pattern either so lots of
> things will have to be changed to make it work. There are articles up on
> the FTE web site about these things :-)
>
> --
> Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
> 78 Bronco Loving, Gary
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
> --
>
> > 4. what about the 460 swap? are there motor mounts that will
> > allow me to
> > use the FE motor supports, or do i need to get supports
> > specifically for the
> > 460? I know that a lot of folks have done the 460 swap, I
> > just dont know
> > the "accepted" procedure.
> > 5. what about the FE springs, are they beefy enough to hold
> > up a 460. or is
> > the extra 150 or so pounds going to make my nose drag the ground?
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 06:39:57 -0600 (CST)
From: Rubberducky23 webtv.net (Danny Ling)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: 429 T-Birds

My 429 came from a 69 or early 70's (guessing) T-Bird.... It had a
semicircular label on the original air filter housing that said "Thunder
Jet". does yours have this also? The casting #'s on the heads are D0VE
A2A and the casting # on the original intake (I now use a Victor 460)
are 3-D0VE 9425 B F4. Do your #'s match mine?... just curious.

Laters, Danny Ling

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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:13:11 PST
From: "Christopher Worley"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Head Gasket

Greetings,
I am soon to begin working on my dad's 72 F-100 390, he blew a head gasket
on his way to my house, I need to know if there are any special tricks, tips
I need to be aware of, anything else I should check while I have it tore
down.



TIA

Chris
'67 F100 LWB 352
'93 F150 SC 351

______________________________________________________
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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:50:53 -0600
From: "Bob & Becky Elliott"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - mid 70's F250 4X4 crewcab

For anyone in the Ft. Worth, Tx. area. There is a mid 70's crewcab on Hwy
114 about 1 mile
East of the 114/287 interchange, up by Rhome. It is a F250, 4sp, divorced
T-case, body is rough,
but the only bad rust I saw was up above the left rear door. Door says some
power company, but the guy at the little vehicle lot says some farmer has
had it for quite some time. Farmer supposely
wants $2000.00, which I thought was a little steep. My son in law lives in
Rhome, so if anyone wants a phone #, I can get one. Elliott

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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 20:27:10 -0800
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - can somebody decode these

Joe wrote:
>Can somebody decode these 2 intake Codes...
>C80E-9425-C

I know this one... it's a 428CJ manifold. I've got one in
my garage. If you want to sell it, there's someone on the
list that may be looking for one if you're close enough for
shipping to be reasonable.
Bill, are you still out there?

>C80E-C9E17

That's a weird #. Haven't a clue what that is.

Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty

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