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Subject: 61-79-list-digest V3 #451
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61-79-list-digest Wednesday, December 8 1999 Volume 03 : Number 451



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - M blocks, ignition, seals and stuff.....
RE: FTE 61-79 - 400 ing timmin
RE: FTE 61-79 - Electronic Ignition
RE: FTE 61-79 - Ignition Stuff
RE: FTE 61-79 - 400 ing timmin
FTE 61-79 - RE: Original Wheels & Radials
FTE 61-79 - questions about power steering, disc brakes, and 460 mounts on a '66
FTE 61-79 - Adjusting the Steering Slop Out, Sector and rack steering
FTE 61-79 - Original Wheels & Radials
FTE 61-79 - Mr Fixit
FTE 61-79 - RE: Sick 460
FTE 61-79 - Plug Gap
FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.
Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: 1966 Assembly manuals
RE: FTE 61-79 - Plug Gap
RE: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.
Re: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.
RE: FTE 61-79 - Adjusting the Steering Slop Out, Sector and rack steering
RE: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.
Re: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.
RE: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.
Re: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.
RE: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.
Re: FTE 61-79 - questions about power steering, disc brakes, and 460 mounts on a '66
RE: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.
FTE 61-79 - 9 Inch ID
FTE 61-79 - tdc
RE: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.
RE: FTE 61-79 - 9 Inch ID
RE: FTE 61-79 - tdc
RE: FTE 61-79 - Plug Gap
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 1966 Engine Rebuild Project
FTE 61-79 - 4.6 in an 85
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 1966 Engine Rebuild Project
FTE 61-79 - rim seperation
FTE 61-79 - splitting rims
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Original Wheels & Radials
Fwd: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Original Wheels & Radials
Re: Fwd: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Original Wheels & Radials
FTE 61-79 - engine stand
Re: Fwd: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Original Wheels & Radials
Re: FTE 61-79 - 9 Inch ID
Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Original Wheels & Radials
Re: FTE 61-79 - 9 Inch ID
Re: FTE 61-79 - 9 Inch ID
Re: FTE 61-79 - 9 Inch ID

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 06:55:28 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - M blocks, ignition, seals and stuff.....

Well you're never too old to learn a new trick and some "new" tricks are
just things you've been too lazy to properly implement. Because I had
trouble with a set of wires which did not have the circular ring on the plug
socket to "snap" on to the plug when I used silicone grease I did not use it
on my new Motorcraft wires and the boots stuck! #$%$$## . Now the set I
had trouble with were the old style with the split socket that never really
stayed on all that well without grease but with grease they just kept
popping off no matter how I pinched the sockets so I decided I wouldn't use
grease any more.

The newer style has a snap ring to keep the socket tight on the plug so will
not pop off even if you grease it so I should have used grease on them when
I put them on but opted not to so I have two wires with damaged boots and
one the socket pulled right off the wire (due to my impatience). All of
this is old business, I knew better but the 45 degree boots were also a
mistake for this engine. This is what prevented me from using my boot
pliers to pull them. With the stock heat shields around the plugs thee is
no room for the pliers with 45 degree boots but with straight boots I could
have worked them off easily.

My next set will be straight boots and will have grease in them :-)

I used resistor plugs because I was in a hurry and grabbed what they had but
my first choice with heli wires would have been non resistor plugs. I now
have lots of time to hunt some up and first excuse I have to work on it
again I'll slip them in along with my new, straight wires :-) BTW, that
engine is sure easy to work on compared to one with air and all that stuff.
Every plug was easy to get to and use a ratchet on but I have to get me a
new plug wrench with a rubber insert in it. I pulled the other one out and
tossed it when it kept getting in my way but without it you have a high risk
of plug breakage so it's on my list next time I drive by Sears :-) (thought
I heard one crack last night but it could have been my wrist too :-)) I
always carefully find the center positition when making the last pull on the
wrench but it's still Ifffffffy :-)

An interesting thing happened while I was removing the starter from the
lincoln 460 on the floor to replace the one in the bronco which died an
early death (only about a year old) but it was a cheap rebuild (Michigan
TBA, $27). What happened was that as soon as I took it off the 460 it
turned into a 3 pole starter!!.......Ok so it was already a 3 pole but on a
460??? Ok, it was also a used or rebuilt starter and probably out of a junk
yard but at least it works :-) They work on 460's too for a while but I
burned several up before switching to the 4 pole version with the solenoid
(spelled it right didn't I ?)

AnnnnnnyHoooo, The bronco starts and runs pretty well and I had to tune the
carb down after installing the new Autolite plugs since it was idling faster
than before (I love it when I do a job and it actually seems to have been
needed :-)) I discoverd that the passenger side idle adjuster screw does
absolutely nothing#$#$%# $%^. Either it's plugged or wide open, not sure
but the driver side screw will make the engine tune change where the
passenger side did nothing no matter where I put the driver side screw. I
also tightened the 4 mounting nuts on the carb due to some obvious leaking
around the base gasket and the engine tune changed (slowed down which
indicates that it must have been sucking a little air). Some of you may
recall that I left them looser than normal due to secondary shaft bind due
to bad mount surface in the Edlebrock manifold. I've been trying an
experiment on the linkage since I have so much trouble with the secondaries
sticking at idle, that is, won't completely close so it idles way too fast.
I use silicone spray on everything now and it actually seems to be working
at least as well as oil did and maybe even a little better. I noticed when
I sprayed the throttle plate shafts the engine sped up a little. I didn't
think there was anything in silicone spray for it to burn???

On another, related, note, the plugs appear to be fuel fouled, not oil
fouled so it's probably running a little rich. All plugs looked about the
same and none were oil fouled which is a good sign. Maybe I'll be "forced"
to pull out my Holley repair box (kid's lunch box no longer needed :-)) and
stick some different jets in there :-) Sure beats Christmas shopping as a
pass time :-)

My valve cover gaskets are leaking already##$$%^%$# $#$ Just put them on
about a year ago and was very carefull to straighten out the lips and clean
everything and then used felpro yellow gasket cement on the valve cover side
only. Next set I install with get felpro cement on both sides and I may try
rubber ones this time. All the new cars use rubber......you suppose there
is a reason? BTW, the bolts are tight enough that I could gain nothing by
tightening them either and it's leaking like a sieve. Oil consumption has
gone back up again and I believe this is why. Both sides are really wet :-(

I think I mentioned that I got some sheet metal to weld in over the
christmas holidays. I like to have a few projects on the shelf waiting for
some spare time :-) (My projects, not the dreaded HDL)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:25:32 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 400 ing timmin

The reason I made this post was due to the fact that most engines have a
fairly narrow range of initial timing they run well in so if you are trying
to find that spot and maintain it you need tools to determine where it is.
The initial timing, of course, is only a small part of the puzzle which is
why I always caution everyone to make sure the vac is working and the
mechanicals in the dizzy are free and smooth before even attempting any
tuning. Otherwise you are wasting your time and will be very disappointed
with any results you get.

As an example, I suddenly had a spark knock problem so checked the timing
and it was way off so I did as many inexperineced ones do, without analyzing
"why" it "suddenly" changed, and reset the initial only to discover that
something was really not working so then proceded to inspect the dizzy only
to find that the vac advance plate had seized. The fact is, I have never in
all my experinece had a dizzy actually move on me :-) They just don't
typically move so something else "must" be the problem but we always do the
easy thing first don't we?? (I have had the caps come off and run so
retarded that the engine caught on fire though :-)) Back in the old days
the timing would change as the points rubbing block wore down but you
adjusted the points not the dizzy unless you actually replaced the points
which sometimes caused the timeing to shift :-) Anyway, I worked on that
for an hour or so and got it working to my satisfaction and, as might be
expected in this case, had to reset the initial again as well. It then ran
quite well with little knock :-) To this day I have never had a problem I
could recognize related to a moved damper ring but I have some really old
engines now so it's just a matter of time before I have to deal with this
myself :-)

In a pinch I agree with everything you said before and in this post. I was
pointing out the "best" way to do it for the long term :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> You know, I might have thought the same thing until I tried
> it. It is the
> same procedure as you call out above. One hand on the dowel
> the other on the
> wrench rotating the crank, eyes on the balancer. Rotate
> engine one direction
> until you think the piston has stopped mark it, then rotate
> crank in the
> other direction until you think it is stopped mark it and split the
> difference. Naturally this method is subject to some error,
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:31:35 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Electronic Ignition

75 was the dura spark 1 and had a different plug than the later ones did but
it was still dura spark type ignition. I believe thay called it something
else at that time though, not sure what it was called. Anyway it functions
essentially the same as later ones for all practical purposes :-)

Not sure about the wiring but a neutral switch typically stops the starter
from being engaged not the ignition. The wire you refer to may be the white
wire on the newer ones which goes to the start relay, not sure.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> last thing this is not a Duraspark but something called SSI
> although all
> the wiring and colors of wires are the same.
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:34:38 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Ignition Stuff

I agree with you about NGK's relaibility and Champion's lack of same. To
this day I will not use a champion in anything if I can find an alternate
brand, any brand, even delco.......

For 2 cycle engines I don't think you can find a better plug than NGK :-)
Don't know if autolite make plugs for that application or not.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> I Have used NGK's in a few Ford trucks and had great luck with them.
> What turned me on to NGK's was snowmobiling and motorcycling.
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 05:45:45 -0800
From: "Hogan, Tom"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 400 ing timmin


BTW, It's best when using a positive stop for this to take out all the plugs
so there is no pressure to fight against to cause over torquing the stop
against the piston top. They are pretty tough but I personally would be
cautious about slamming the piston against a stop with any force :-)
Doesn't help the accuracy either :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary

Also worth mentioning, DON'T use the starter motor to turn the motor over
while the positive stop is installed. You implied this above but I thought
it would be good to spell out. I would disconnect the NEG battery terminal
for this.

Tom H.
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 06:14:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Ballinger
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Original Wheels & Radials

>Has anyone on this list heard of this problem, had
any
>experience, or words of wisdom?

>No words of wisdom or advice, just my experience. I
>have been running
>radials for the last 15 years or so on the stock
>wheels with no
>problems. I
>have never heard of a wheel failure due to what you
>describe. The only
>two
>ways I have ever lost one piece stock steel wheels
was >1.) run over
>something and bend it or 2.) rust a hole where the
>spot welds are and
>develop an incurable leak. The biggest problem is
>putting tires too
>large
>for the width of the rim.


There is one older wheel type (that you, Big John,
have also alluded to) you should never use on a normal
duty truck at all, much less with radials, and that is
the split-rim.

I know a widow who lost her husband while he was
simply checking the air in his tires. Ring blew off
and took half of his head with it. These wheels were
made for low speed agricultural type use, and not
meant for pliable sidewall rubber. 10 ply tires
minumum, and a 60 mph maximum speed, and a 20 inch
wheel diameter really. Anything smaller is more prone
to failure. New-style split rims have some safety
features built in, throw those old ones away! Or
maybe clean them up and sell them to a collector for
an original style restoration that won't be driven
much.

Another thing I've found is wheels from mid 60's
trucks on back have a different radius to the bead
surface, more straight up and down. They don't seal
to radials as well as they did to bias ply. A radial
is alot more pliabe in the sidewall and needs that
bead surface pushing up from underneath. On an
earlier wheel it will tend to walk inward and leak. I
don't know what year they changed, but I'd say to
avoid stock wheels that predate 1969 (this is vague, I
don't know when they changed them, but the wheels on
my '67 never would take radials well) unless it's a
show truck that has to have them to be original, and
is driven very little. But there again you'd be
running pias ply tires anyway.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:57:09 +0200
From: "Greg Schnakenberg"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - questions about power steering, disc brakes, and 460 mounts on a '66

I am looking at my recently purchased '65 custom cab long bed with shot C6
and WEAK 352. it has a clean, straight body, uncut dash, but needs paint.
I also have a '77 parts truck, and a '76 T-bird with low milage 460. I have
several questions that i want to ask in regards to swapping some of the
parts from the '77 and the 460 from the bird. I need some of you guys that
have experience with these swaps tell me whats up with the modifications
that i want to make.

1. how hard is it to swap the disc brake system from the '77 into the '65?
do i need to change the I beams for the ones from the 77, or can i get by
with just changing the spindles?
2. can I use the '77 booster/master cylinder, or should i find one more
appropriate?
3. is the power steering box a direct swap? can I keep the original 65
steering collumn?
4. What is the "accepted" method of installing a 460 in place of a FE? are
there motor mounts that will allow me to use the old FE supports, or do they
need to be changed as well?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Greg
61 ugly ex-airforce stepside
65 custom cab

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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 08:27:12 -0600
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Adjusting the Steering Slop Out, Sector and rack steering

>>2..Rotate the steering wheel from lock to lock and position it to the center
of travel, regardless of how the steering wheel looks in that position. If
it is not centered then you may wish to remove it and relocate it to the box
center if it is also going to put it in the center on the road. For best
handling they should be in sync. If not then something in the steering
linkage, frame, suspension or/and body mounts etc. is not correct.

Just a comment here. If someone has replaced the rag joint or messed with
the steering column and not put it in correctly, then centering the steering
wheel for looks will involve more than simply taking it off the column and
putting it back on. Once you get the box centered as described, if your
steering wheel is upside down or something, you may need to disconnect the
rag joint, rotate the steering wheel, then put it all back together. There
should be a ping mark on the steering wheel and the end of the shaft, but if
you don't have both original to each other, they probably won't match. Use
your turn signal cancellers to determin the center spot for your steering
wheel. You should turn about 1/4 turn either way to hit the first click,
maybe a little farther on the older beasts.

I'm not sure how clear all of this is. I haven't finished my first cup of
coffee yet this a.m.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 08:33:36 -0600
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Original Wheels & Radials

>>I honestly don't see any difference between the rim side loading with
radials or bias tires. Bias tires "used" to have stiffer side walls than
radials and still do have at least a slight advantage but that advantage has
been reduced over the years to improve the radials quirky handling problems.
What any of that has to do with rim side loading I have no idea???

I think the difference in side loading manifests on corners. A radial tire
rolls more whereas a bias ply will break contact with the pavement sooner.
Older (much older) wheels without the safety bead may pose a problem in that
severe cornering may cause the tire to come off the wheel. Wheels without
the safety bead are designed for tube type tires and should never have
tubeless mounted on them.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 08:38:34 -0600
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Mr Fixit

>>Azie wrote: I hate to pay someone else to do what I can do, and
If I don't do it right I can't blame anyone else.

Amen. I just spent $84.01 to replace the entire front brakes including
rotors on my son's Monte C. A brake shop would have charged $300 easily.

FTE content: We went to the parts house in my 79 F150. :-)

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 10:28:32 -0500
From: William King
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Sick 460

William,
Sorry about your 460. I rebuilt a 429 for my Torino (3.25 rear)years ago,
and it has a Crane Econo-power 272 hydraulic. I can get you the exact specs
off the cam-card (it's at home and I'm at work) if you like. The cam
was supposed to be a good bottom-end cam, and I can attest to that. The
torque, even from 1200 rpms is amazing. The cam makes plenty of vacum
(I haven't had any trouble w/ my power brakes). Crane claimed the cam
would have a slight lope at idle, but I cannot detect any. Doesn't matter
to me; the thing flys.
See what type of rocker-arms you have. The rail-type rockers can't handle
a high-lift cam and have been known to drop valves into the cylinder. The
good news is that you can convert easily to other rocker arms.

Good luck.
Ohio Bill
1968 Torino GT 429 4v 4 speed
1968 F100 360 2v 4 speed
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 07:34:10 PST
From: "James Stepke"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Plug Gap

What should the gap be on my new spark plugs i am getting today?? I have a
400 v8!!
Thanks
James
1979 F150 400 4x4

______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:40:21 -0800
From: "Josh Assing"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.

A buddy's truck F250 Camper special, won't start anymore. It
seems that either the nuetral switch (auto tranny) or the ignition
switch is bad. We can jump a wire from the starter solinoid to the
battery and it starts right up.

what's more likely the problem? The neutral switch or the ignition?

Thanks
- -josh

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:44:11 EST
From: Mikerenf aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - ADMIN: 1966 Assembly manuals

where can you get a manual for a "66" f-100 truck??

thanks mike r
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:44:54 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Plug Gap

> What should the gap be on my new spark plugs i am getting
> today?? I have a
> 400 v8!!


The sticker should say for sure, but .035" is a good starting point usually
... with the Duraspark system it may be .042" or so that is specc'ed ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:00:47 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.

> what's more likely the problem? The neutral switch or the ignition?
>

The neutral switch would be my hunch ... auto or manual ? if auto, check
the alignment on the column, the bolts may have just come loose and let it
slide around a bit ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:21:30 -0700
From: "Michael White"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.

> A buddy's truck F250 Camper special, won't start anymore. It
> seems that either the nuetral switch (auto tranny) or the ignition
> switch is bad. We can jump a wire from the starter solinoid to the
> battery and it starts right up.
>
> what's more likely the problem? The neutral switch or the ignition?
>
> Thanks
> -josh
................

Try wiggling the gear selector lever (usually lift upwards) when
starting.


Danger
danger csolutions.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.csolutions.net/myth/



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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:33:56 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Adjusting the Steering Slop Out, Sector and rack steering

Not sure, John, what the steering shaft has to do with the turn signals?
The assy's I'm familiar with all use the wheel to operate everything so
repositioning the wheel solves all the problems AFAIK? On 2wd systems there
are large and small pins in the rag joint so they can not be swapped but on
4x4's they can be. I can't think of any reason to be concerned about the
position of the shaft itself?

Centering the wheel is for more than just looks, it also helps you keep
track of changes to the steering system and makes handling the vehicle a bit
easier IMHO so it should be centered but not at the cost of running down the
road with the steering box out of center which is why I went through the
steps in the order that I did. The box needs to be in it's centered
position when the vehicle is going straight and the wheel should be as well,
for best handling.

One of the jobs of a good alignment man is to ensure that the steering wheel
is centered when he is done but he is supposed to do the steps I mentioned
to accomplish that. If it does not line up when the box is centered then
there is more work to be done. Some part of the linkage, suspension, body
mounts etc. is not correct and needs to be addressed.

In my case I adjusted the track bar but in retrospect I have a bad driver
side body mount and it would not surprise me at all to discover when I
correct that that my steering wheel is no longer centered. This will be a
clue to me that my track bar is not correct after all even though the bronco
handles very well. It takes very little movement of the track bar to change
the steering wheel position 1/4 turn which is about how far it was out. The
axle offset was not affected very much so is not causing a problem but it
would not surprise me, now that I've had time to look at more things, that
my track bar adjustment was not necessary, the body mount should have been
corrected first.

My personal view and the view which is taught in alignment school is that
once the wheel is placed in a level position on the shaft in the center of
the steering box travel it should not be moved but other things should be
corrected to get it re-centered. The customer is always right though so if
he asks for this instead, I suppose that's what you do :-) I guess the
bottom line is you do what you can but the ideal is as I stated :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> the steering column and not put it in correctly, then
> centering the steering
> wheel for looks will involve more than simply taking it off
> the column and
> putting it back on. Once you get the box centered as
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:11:43 -0800
From: "Josh Assing"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.

> The neutral switch would be my hunch ... auto or manual ? if auto,
> check the alignment on the column, the bolts may have just come loose
> and let it slide around a bit ...
Cool. So the switch is ont he column not on the tranny? (Yes auto)

Excellent; that sounds much easier and better than mucking with
electical by passes.

Thanks

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:11:43 -0800
From: "Josh Assing"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.

> Try wiggling the gear selector lever (usually lift upwards) when
> starting.

Tried that; it doesn't work.
My thought is that the switch to sense it's in neutral (or park) is
broken; I thought I'd just ground out (or un ground) the wire the
tranny to say "it's always in park" -- my buddy says that'd be better
than where he's at now...

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:13:11 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.

You can jump the switch directly by using the plug off the bad switch and
simply tying the wires together once you determine that it is the switch. I
ran my van that way for years :-)

It's not a ground, it actually connects the ignition switch start wire to
the start relay. It is in series with these two so all you have to do is
complete the circuit in the harness wire lead to the tranny.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> broken; I thought I'd just ground out (or un ground) the wire the
> tranny to say "it's always in park" -- my buddy says that'd be better
> than where he's at now...
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 12:15:16 -0600
From: "Kelley McDaniel"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.

Josh Assing wrote:

> what's more likely the problem? The neutral switch or the ignition?

Certainly the easier to eliminate as a possible problem is the neutral
switch. Short it out and see if the prob goes away. I'm guessing it's the
more likely as well.

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:36:02 -0800
From: "Josh Assing"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.

Excellent.. So it's on the steering column, then... I'll root around in
there today... Any clues as to which wires i"m specifically looking
for? or will it be obvious once I start looking?

> You can jump the switch directly by using the plug off the bad switch
> and simply tying the wires together once you determine that it is the
> switch. I ran my van that way for years :-)
>
> It's not a ground, it actually connects the ignition switch start wire
> to the start relay. It is in series with these two so all you have to
> do is complete the circuit in the harness wire lead to the tranny.
>
> --
> Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
> 78 Bronco Loving, Gary
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
> --
>
> > broken; I thought I'd just ground out (or un ground) the wire the
> > tranny to say "it's always in park" -- my buddy says that'd be
> > better than where he's at now...
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:48:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Pat Brown
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - questions about power steering, disc brakes, and 460 mounts on a '66

> I am looking at my recently purchased '65 custom cab long bed with shot C6
> and WEAK 352. it has a clean, straight body, uncut dash, but needs paint.
> I also have a '77 parts truck, and a '76 T-bird with low milage 460. I have
> several questions that i want to ask in regards to swapping some of the
> parts from the '77 and the 460 from the bird. I need some of you guys that
> have experience with these swaps tell me whats up with the modifications
> that i want to make.
>
> 1. how hard is it to swap the disc brake system from the '77 into the '65?
> do i need to change the I beams for the ones from the 77, or can i get by
> with just changing the spindles?

Nice article on the FTE web site, written by Ken and Dennis.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/articles/65-72_brake_conversion.html

> 2. can I use the '77 booster/master cylinder, or should i find one more
> appropriate?

I think this is your best bet. Move the proportioning valve also, if
your '65 has one, it's most likely just a differential switch (runs
brake warning light only).

> 3. is the power steering box a direct swap? can I keep the original 65
> steering collumn?

Not sure about '65s, but 67-72 steering columns are about 1-1/2 inches
different length for manual/power steering apps. You may be able to
modify your column with a shorter shaft, which is what I plan to do
('70 F250)

> 4. What is the "accepted" method of installing a 460 in place of a FE? are
> there motor mounts that will allow me to use the old FE supports, or do they
> need to be changed as well?

L&L adapters makes mounts for this. I don't have a phone number, but
someone here does . . .
- --
Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:20:58 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.

>
> Excellent.. So it's on the steering column, then... I'll root around in
> there today... Any clues as to which wires i"m specifically looking
> for? or will it be obvious once I start looking?
>

Here's how mine works on my 73 ... there's supposed to be a pin sticking out
of the base of the column just inside the cab, then there are 2 bolts that
hold a little slide mechanism onto the outside of the column ... what
happened with mine is the pin broke off, so they took the switch off and
then used some bare copper wire to hold the actuator all the way into the P
position ... on the down side you lose your backup lights too ... on mine
the wire came loose once and I had to start it like you did once I got home
I realized what it was and wired it back up .. I should fix that some day
...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:01:49 EST
From: SevnD2 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 9 Inch ID

I had asked earlier about the way to identify a 9 inch rearend . Well I found
what I think is one by using the socket wont fit method . Also have the id
tag but , I don't want to be guessing about what it means . Here is what is
listed on the tag .
BTW , this is out of a 72 4DR Gran Torino .

WEB - H 1KD
2.75 9 812A

I know it is a 2.75 ratio . I will let someone else take it from there !
Thanks in advance .
Rollie H. Hunt
King , N.C.
1976 F100 Explorer 391FT (428 cu in )
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:30:06 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - tdc

Gary writes: >>Finding the TDC position requires a degree wheel and
positive stop to be
accurate. I find it hard to believe that anyone can find TDC any closer
than
10 or 15 degrees by rotating the crank and feeling for piston movement. If
you don't have a degree wheel you can also just mark the pulley and some
part of the block which is located well for this as a pointer or bolt on a
pointer, install a positive stop and rotate it both ways and mark the pully
to the pointer in both positions then split the difference to get TDC.

You can make a positive stop from an old spark plug by breaking out the
porcelain and tapping it for a long bolt. I made both 18mm and 14mm
versions. If you have a long needle, axial movement indicator you can find
it fairly accurately that way too but the degree wheel and positive stop is
the only "accurate" way to do it. All other methods are compromised by
engine clearances and crank throw geometry.....physics :-)

SHEEEECCCCCHHHEEE!!! C'mon Gary. We're all shade tree variety here>>>>
All this "Exact" science is not that necessary. I agree with replacing the
balancer if it has "walked", but finding TDC isn't that complicated with a
dowel. It won't be perfect, maybe, but it will surely crank and run well
enough to continue the timing process by ear or by vacuum gage. I also
agree you can do all that tool making and cranking of the engine over and
back to get it exactly on TDC, but I don't think it necessary to do for a
start up and timing process by gage or ear.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:39:28 -0800
From: "Josh Assing"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 19?? F250 Starting (electrical) problem.

> Here's how mine works on my 73 ... there's supposed to be a pin
> sticking out of the base of the column just inside the cab, then there
> are 2 bolts that hold a little slide mechanism onto the outside of the
> column ... what happened with mine is the pin broke off, so they took
> the switch off and then used some bare copper wire to hold the
> actuator all the way into the P position ... on the down side you lose
> your backup lights too ... on mine the wire came loose once and I had
> to start it like you did once I got home I realized what it was and
> wired it back up .. I should fix that some day ...

Sounds easy! Thanks!

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:42:48 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 9 Inch ID

> BTW , this is out of a 72 4DR Gran Torino .
>
> WEB - H 1KD
> 2.75 9 812A
>
> I know it is a 2.75 ratio . I will let someone else take it from there !


What motor's in this thing ? If its a 351 or larger odds are good its a 9
incher ... haven't seen too many of them with smaller diff's, these are
pretty heavy cars after all ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:46:20 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - tdc

Speak for yourself Azie....I happen to be a rocket scientist myself....:-)
Thats what my kids used to call me anyway when I was trying to
explai............wait a minute! Was that an insult????

I know it can be done and the engine can be made to run with even less
hoopla than the dowel thing but if you want good economy.....Ok, maybe that
wasn't an issue but.......

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Gary writes: >>Finding the TDC position requires a degree wheel and
> positive stop to be
> accurate.

> SHEEEECCCCCHHHEEE!!! C'mon Gary. We're all shade tree
> variety here>>>>
> All this "Exact" science is not that necessary. I agree with
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:08:45 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Plug Gap

The number I recall is 0.044" for late 70's with dura spark. Points
ignition usually need less in the 0.025-0.032" range as I recall. I gapped
mine at 44 last night which is what they were already gapped at and that's
your second clue that you must be close since those plugs were called out in
the parts store catalog :-) If in doubt you can always go by what they are
gapped at if you buy the ones specified in the interchange book at the store
for your application. How's that for simple Azie?

My Spitfire with 9:1 compression and unreliable Lucas ignition was gapped at
0.025" but some later ones with lower compression called for 0.032".

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> What should the gap be on my new spark plugs i am
> getting today?? I have a
> 400 v8!!
> Thanks
> James
> 1979 F150 400 4x4
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:17:37 -0500
From: tfreeman murphyfarms.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 1966 Engine Rebuild Project

I agree with with Tim!!! It looks good!!! You and your son did a nice job!!

- -Ted


In a message dated 12/6/99 9:29:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tkbowman uswest.net writes:

>
> Great shots of the engine rebuild and detailing of the engine
> compartment. Did you use POR or an equivalent on the frame or other
> parts?

Thanks Tim. I used Eastwood's corroless primer and their chassis black.
The primer is supposed to go right over rust and bond. I originally didn't
plan on doing anything to the frame this year but my son wanted to spruce it
up. He scraped and wire brushed quite a bit. That's a big feat especially
considering he's only 10. Time will tell how well it holds up.

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (HELP!---I need 15 x5 factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee

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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 15:13:55 PST
From: "Mark Mcknight"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 4.6 in an 85

Duh duh daaaaa!!! I found a bellhousing... the 4.6 in the ole, 85 worked...
cept I had to weld up some weird motor mounts, but, now the intake sticks up
in the hood )= o wellerz, Any suggestions on what kinda hood would be good?
or anything, as I have no hood =) You guys have been great, I've learned
sooo much! Thank ya'll!!

- -Mark-
85. New 4.6, headers and a turbo
78, tubbed, and 5.0L

______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:15:34 EST
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: 1966 Engine Rebuild Project

In a message dated 12/7/99 4:20:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tfreeman murphyfarms.com writes:

> I agree with with Tim!!! It looks good!!! You and your son did a nice
job!!

Thanks Ted. I also wish to publically thank everyone else who gave their
"thumbs up." With this part of the project behind me, I am willing to help
anyone with questions on a 240 rebuild. So long for now.

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (HELP!---I need 15 x5 factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:05:10 -0600
From: "Bob & Becky Elliott"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - rim seperation

For what it is worth, I had a 63 Fairlane 500 w 14 inch wheels back in 1966
and coming off
the exit ramp on I70 in Salina, Ks., The rear end got real squirrly on the
ramp. Got pulled over to check why, and heard air leaking out. Truck stop
near by, so I headed over to have them fix a leak before it went flat.
Took it off and the ser man called me over to look. About 10" of the rim had
split away right where the bead would seat. I don't remember any rust, so
my guess would be metal fatigue. Elliott

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:13:32 -0600
From: "Bob & Becky Elliott"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - splitting rims

Something else that I neglected to mention. Depending on your truck usage,
you can use an over width tire, as long as your not trying to run maximum
load/preasure. Your wear won't be as good as with the proper width rim.
Elliott

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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:29:00 -0800 (PST)
From: canzus seanet.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Original Wheels & Radials

At 06:14 AM 7:12:99 -0800, Bill Ballinger wrote:


>I know a widow who lost her husband while he was
>simply checking the air in his tires. Ring blew off
>and took half of his head with it.

One of my buddies has a major scar from a split rim
that blew as he was disconnecting the airline with the
rim/tire in a safety cage, absolutely distroyed his
fore-arm bones(?ulna & radii?). Three surgeries later
he can pick up a wrench, can't use it, but he can pick it up

>Another thing I've found is wheels from mid 60's
>trucks on back have a different radius to the bead
>surface, more straight up and down. They don't seal
>to radials as well as they did to bias ply.

True, but you can use tubes, as I did on the former
'57 F100 I had. I had the stock rear rims widened, from
5" to 8 1/2", so I could run 255/60R15 on the rear. I just
ran them with tubes.....


Steve & the Rockette
68 F100, 390cid, FMX
63 F100, 292cid, 3speed
72 Capri 2000, hers
73 Capri 2600,tube frame going in.....
73 MGB GT, Our Toy
94 SHO, SWMBO's
98 Contour SVT, Mine, Mine, All Mine....

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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 19:03:08 PST
From: "Don Jones"
Subject: Fwd: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Original Wheels & Radials

> >I know a widow who lost her husband while he was
> >simply checking the air in his tires. Ring blew off
> >and took half of his head with it.
>
> One of my buddies has a major scar from a split rim
>that blew as he was disconnecting the airline with the
>rim/tire in a safety cage, absolutely distroyed his
>


I have a pair of split rims on my truck with 7.50-17 10 ply tires on them,
tubes and running 50psi. I have a pair of 17 inch conventional rims
waiting to be cleaned up and painted. (one of those things i have been
putting off)
Are split rims dangerous to drive on or are they just dangerous to work on?


Don Jones
1970 f-250 ~Fordzilla~



______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 21:31:44 -0600
From: "Jason & Kathy Kendrick"
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Original Wheels & Radials

Don, as a service station employee of many years, and an owner of split
rims for several years, I feel qualified to answer this question.
I wouldn't be afraid to drive anywhere with properly seated split rims.
If you follow proper procedures while working on them, you minimize your
probabilities of being injured. I've fixed hundreds of split rims, from
16" pickup rims to construction equipment, and have never had one blow.
A couple of close calls, though!

Jason Kendrick

Don Jones wrote:

> Are split rims dangerous to drive on or are they just dangerous to work on?
>
> Don Jones
> 1970 f-250 ~Fordzilla~
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 19:52:47 -0800
From: "S.Harkema"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - engine stand

>Yeah, I built my own engine stand and bought a 2 ton picker for that >reason.

Borrowed a brand new ,never been used cheapo engine stand from a
friend.When him and I set my FE on it the metal casters shot off of it
like bullets and the stand dropped straight down onto the floor.
We looked at each other and the stand and then he said
"Must be made for ch*vys,I'll have to take it back and get one for
Fords"
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 20:26:38 -0800 (PST)
From: canzus seanet.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Original Wheels & Radials

At 07:03 PM 7:12:99 PST, Don Jones wrote:

>Are split rims dangerous to drive on or are they just dangerous to work on?
>

In my opinion, both.

I don't like them, never have liked them, never will like them.
The problem comes along when the seat for the removable section
starts to rust, and you cant get the section to seat correctly. It will
appear to seat right, but as soon as you put some pressure in the tire
it'll blow the rim off. Bad things happen to good people, no matter
how careful they are. Don't be one of these people, you're life is
worth more than a new set of steel rims.....

Steve & the Rockette
68 F100, 390cid, FMX
63 F100, 292cid, 3speed
72 Capri 2000, hers
73 Capri 2600,tube frame going in.....
73 MGB GT, Our Toy
94 SHO, SWMBO's
98 Contour SVT, Mine, Mine, All Mine....

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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:09:47 EST
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 9 Inch ID

In a message dated 12/7/99 2:29:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, SevnD2 aol.com
writes:

>
> WEB - H 1KD
> 2.75 9 812A

Rollie: Post your tag info on the fomoco obsolete tech forum. The forum
host is usually very gracious about deciphering car differential tags.
Here's the address:
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://fomoco.com/forummain/default.asp?Page=1&Style=Full

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (HELP!---I need 15 x5 factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:34:43 EST
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - RE: Original Wheels & Radials

In a message dated 12/7/99 11:27:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
canzus seanet.com writes:

> Are split rims dangerous to drive on or are they just dangerous to work on?

I think it's important to qualify what you mean by a so called "split
rim" My 67 originally had split rims so does my 72, but they differ
significantly. The 67 style had an outer sealing ring which was a solid hoop
that seperated from the main part of the rim. These splits with the solid
rings are by far the most dangerous. This danger was present not only
during repair, but at *any* time (operating vehicle, checking pressure,
basically whenever) In the early seventies, they modified the ring and the
rim so that it inter-locked better. The best way to describe the outer ring
is that it had a gap and looks like a very large piston ring. These posed
far less danger of separation once inflated properly. Greatest risk was
during the first pressure up after a take-down. Once the ring was seated it
was reasonably safe. Rim failure for split rims in general is usually
related to rust corrosion. When I had the old style rims on my truck I once
had the outer ring blow right off the tire while (over) loaded. I was going
30 when it happened and it was the passenger side rear which was facing a
large corn lot; so no problem. I had a land mark to go by when it happened.
Would you believe that I searched for quite some time and never found that
outer ring? I imagine from the sound that I heard that it launched itself
with enough force to go air born and clear into the next county. True story.
Even if someone wanted one of these older ones for a show vehicle I wouldn't
sell them just for fear that someone might hurt themself.

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (HELP!---I need 15 x5 factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 01:12:28 EST
From: SevnD2 aol.com
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