From: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com (61-79-list-digest)
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Subject: 61-79-list-digest V3 #445
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61-79-list-digest Friday, December 3 1999 Volume 03 : Number 445



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 61-79 - 66 flasher location
Re: FTE 61-79 - Engine Paint
RE: FTE 61-79 - Electric Fuel Pump
RE: FTE 61-79 - Loose steering
RE: FTE 61-79 - Loose steering
RE: FTE 61-79 - Electric Fuel Pump
RE: FTE 61-79 - Engine Progress
FTE 61-79 - POR 15
RE: FTE 61-79 - Water heated 4v carb spacer
FTE 61-79 - Capacities
FTE 61-79 - Capacities
FTE 61-79 - Happy Diesel Owner
RE: FTE 61-79 - Happy Diesel Owner
Re: FTE 61-79 - POR 15
Re: FTE 61-79 - POR 15
RE: FTE 61-79 - Water heated 4v carb spacer
RE: FTE 61-79 - Capacities
FTE 61-79 - Carb. Adjust.
RE: FTE 61-79 - Carb. Adjust.
Re: FTE 61-79 - 66 flasher location
FTE 61-79 - (no subject)
Re: FTE 61-79 - (no subject)
RE: FTE 61-79 - Capacities
RE: FTE 61-79 - Capacities
FTE 61-79 - 390 HEADS for 360 motor
Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 HEADS for 360 motor
FTE 61-79 - A LIL MO' INFO.........
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Apprenticeship
Re: FTE 61-79 - Loose steering
FTE 61-79 - Fuel system Springs was Electric Fuel Pump

=======================================================================

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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 06:38:24 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 66 flasher location

I've never seen a flasher which was mounted anywhere except for a flasher
amplifier on one vehicle I remember but on older ones there are some 3 prong
flashers too. I had one with one of each. They typically hang from the
wire harness and just dangle in the vicinity of the steering column but I've
had them behind the glove box before too so you just have to look.

There are about 4 different kinds, HD and LD each of 3 prong and 2 prong.
HD's can be uses in any application but will flash your lights slower
without a trailer attached but you should not use a standard in a vehicle
which tows very often, get the HD units for that application.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> > And on that note does anyone knbow where I can find the
> turn signal
> > flasher for my '66 F100? I have tried 3 diff auto stores
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:08:31 -0800
From: "Charles T."
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Engine Paint

These sites will give you 1-800 numbers. They have always been very helpful
over the phone. The sites also have a lot of useful information themselves.
Maybe you should tell them that you heard about them on this FTE site.

www.brysondist.com

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.por-15southwest.com

www.POR15.com




> I've been intrigued by the discussion on the POR 15
> thread and have heard mentioned a high temp engine
> paint that can be brushed on.
>
> The engine in my '65 will be the original black on
> everything but the valve covers. I'd like to get a
> high-temp brushable glossy black engine paint for the
> black stuff, but I have a couple of questions.
>
> There is no paint at all on my block and heads, and
> unless I find a CJ iron intake I will need to paint my
> aluminum Performer black. Is there a primer needed to
> go under this stuff? Will it do aluminum(the timing
> cover too)? What kind of surface prep do I need? How
> does it do on the oil pan and valve covers? I'd
> consider brush painting the pan, but I need
> bronze-gold for the valve covers so I plan to spray
> them. Do they make a brushable header paint too?
>
> You can e-mail me privately if you want to, but I need
> to know how to get hold of this stuff.
>
> Later,
>
> Bill
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.
> > == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:10:05 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Electric Fuel Pump

Ok, my theory relies on the fact that the actual pressure is generated by
the spring, not the mechanical leverage. If the lever pushes against a
spring and the spring actually produces the pressure in the output line, not
the lever, then the pump will output a pressure which is the inlet pressure
plus the spring pressure, mitigated by the current output pressure which is
pushing back and some ratio between the two controling the check valve.
What I meant is that the spring has a fixed total force so if you increase
the pressure on the back side of the diaphram it will "assist" the spring to
some degree. The check valve will allow the inlet pressure to bleed through
the diaphram "IF" the output side is lower but it it is higher the check
valve will be closed and the full pressure on the inlet side will affect the
total force exerted by the diaphram against the output side. Since the pump
is designed to have negative or vacuum pressure on the inlet side it will
not function the same with positive pressure on the inlet side if the design
is as described above.

IF the pump operates in any other way than I have described then this effect
may not occur but if the pressure is actually regulated by the pusher spring
then there should be an accumulation as each pump is added to the system due
to the above.

The electrics typically operate on a different principle but with the same
effect. The solenoid can only generate 7 psi before it stalls, that is the
coil can only pull the plunger against 7psi and any more than that pushes
back enough that the plunger simply will not move so no more pressure is
developed. Since it also has a check valve the same phenomena will occur as
with the mechanical pump when pressure is applied to the inlet side of the
pump. Some portion of that pressure will exert force on the plunger to
operate the diaphram with more total force against the ouput side.

In both cases the actual design of the check valves, location and attachment
mechanics of the springs etc. will affect or mitigate this and in some cases
may have limited effect but in others may surprise you how much difference
it will make. Again I'm only theorizing here since I have not actually
taken either one apart but guessing at the actual operation based on
experience with other similar devices.

It would be a very easy thing to test with both already hooked up and a
switch to the electric. Simply run the mechanical with a gauge hooked up
for a base line then, with no other changes, turn on the electric and see if
there is a change. I will let you all know in a few months when I get one
set up that way :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Only me? Wow! I'll bet that somewhere in the world *someone* else
> has been inside a mechanical fuel pump before! I'll just bet
> those Ford engineers know what's in one...
>
> The fuel pressure is determined by the spring pressure divided by
> the area of the diaghram. Outlet pressure remains fairly constant
> regardless of flow.
>
> I been thinking about that one. I think that if 2 pumps are
> in series,
> that the total fuel pressure will be whichever the highest
> pressure pump
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:20:27 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Loose steering

Well......I'll try again....dang server went down in the middle of my reply
and I lost it all :-(

I like to remove the drag link and leave the pitman arm attached as a lever
to "Feel" the lash in the box. By disconnecting the drag link you eliminate
any obstructions in the linkage which might interfere with full lock to lock
operation such as you find in 4x4's. Turn the wheel left to right, lock to
lock and measure the half way point. Now loosen the nut to the adjuster and
see what kind of movement you can get without forcing anything and also
check the lash by feel using your hand and the pitman arm. The trick is to
get the lash "just" out without any preload. If there is any preload at all
it will cause wandering because the box will not be able to reach
equilibrium at center due to the eccentricity of the sector which is
designed in. It will cause a tight spot at center which will force the
sector shaft to one side or other of center so you have to keep making
adjustments which will totally drive you nuts :-(

The adjuster is right hand threaded and tighter is tighter. All it is is a
"T" bolt which fits in a slot in the top of the sector shaft and prevents it
from falling all the way into the rack and binding up. The rack and sector
are both tapered to allow for lash adjustments by dropping the sector deeper
into the rack. When you tighten the adjuster you allow the sector to drop
lower into the rack by it's own weight and there is some clearance in the
"T" bolt so it can float a little. You should never "Push" the sector down
with force, just let it "fall" down til the lash comes out. The sector
actually "hangs" from the adjuster bolt when properly adjusted.

Keep in mind while you are looking at all this that the input shaft bearing
preload can also cause looseness by allowing the rack to float back and
forth in the box so make sure the input shaft feels tight with no "axial"
play in it too.

If both of these measure up then you have trouble somewhere else.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Is this where I take the arm off find the center of the
> steering? Once I
> find the center what is the process of taking the lash out,
> just loosen nut
> and turn the screw thing? Which way.......(the way that
> makes it tight I
> suppose).
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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 08:29:35 -0600
From: David.R.John deluxe.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Loose steering

Hey,

I just want to add that the steering on 78 F250 4x4 is power steering.
Hopefully that gives the info you all need to help me get this tightened
up. Thanks all..............

David John

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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:40:09 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Electric Fuel Pump

First off a thought for those of you who are putting in elec. pumps ... why
not throw in a bypass valve as well so that you can drain some fuel out to
help out your buddies when they run out of gas ? turn the key on, hit the
pump, presto a little fuel ... it may take a while, but it'd save runnin to
town and back if you're in the middle of no-where ...



> Ok, my theory relies on the fact that the actual pressure is generated by
> the spring, not the mechanical leverage.



I think I agree with what Gary just said, but as I got lost I can't be for
sure ... sorry Gary ... correct me if I'm wrong but simpy stated aren't you
just saying they will generate a pressure difference, and if the one side is
raised the other side MAY follow suit depending on design and location of
various regulators and check valves ?

Either way I don't think it will ever reach completely additive (14psi?) but
maybe 9 or 10 wouldn't be unheard of ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:41:11 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Engine Progress

> Well, my parts all came in yesterday, and the machine
> shop called and said to come and get it! My credit
> card is now a proud sponsor of what should be one A
> kicker of a 390.
>

Congratulations on the FE :) Hopefully you'll get that up and runnin
without too much frustration ... really sorry to hear about the
complications from the accident ... :( hope you're back on your feet soon!

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 09:31:33 -0500
From: "J. Doss Halsey"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - POR 15

Bill,

www.por15.com

They recommend using their POR15 as a primer under their engine paint. They
say it will stand the heat and protect against rust. Surface prep is to
degrease and spray on a water based metal prep. Let it soak and rinse it
off. Let dry, then go for it. They also say it will work on aluminum.

Yes, the header paint is brushable too and comes in three colors.

Really, I am not affiliated with POR-15. I'm just a satisfied customer.

Doss Halsey
'68 F250, 390 (ford medium blue), frame painted with POR15 semigloss black.

>There is no paint at all on my block and heads, and
>unless I find a CJ iron intake I will need to paint my
>aluminum Performer black. Is there a primer needed to
>go under this stuff? Will it do aluminum(the timing
>cover too)? What kind of surface prep do I need? How
>does it do on the oil pan and valve covers? I'd
>consider brush painting the pan, but I need
>bronze-gold for the valve covers so I plan to spray
>them. Do they make a brushable header paint too?


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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:50:14 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Water heated 4v carb spacer

> >Okay Steve, lets move you North a few hundred miles, and inland another
> >couple hundred ...
>
> Actually, the thought of doing that very thing has occured to me
> pretty often. Who knows, in a couple more years I may be trying
> that experiment. (-:
>

Hahahahaha ... okay sounds like a fair deal to me :)


> >stabilize the carb temp when its warmed up ... at -30 that engine
> >compartment is big enough to chill even the exhaust manifold somewhat it
> >seems...
>
> Do you really have problems with it even once the motor is warmed up?

Yes. On the old 360, haven't really messed with it on the 390, it was all a
combination of things too, I don't think we can say this one thing caused
it, but it certainly didn't help things ...

> Does it have a fully functional exhaust heat stove?

Nope. Long story, but basically I can never get the snorkel piece on the
air cleaner and then when I do the rest of the system is missing ... so this
year I've got a K&N with a system similar to what the old Ram Air 'stangs
had where the chrome lid covers the filter element and it is all fitted
inside the stock lower housing ... not much for warm air induction during
warm up ... maybe I should do something about that for the winter, but right
now my sister's truck is takin the priority since its not moving very far
under its own power right now


> The coldest temps mine has seen is around -5F when I took it to play
> in the snow last year. It performed flawlessly at those temps, but
> I've never "tested" it at -30... (-:
>

Aren't you lucky ? :) I wasn't testing, I was going to visit my then
girlfriend ... couldn't figure out why my mileage was so bad ... things
hadn't heated up far enough under the hood at all so the choke was still
closed almost completely ... I leaned it out a little, but then it was
really hard to start because of the limited movement of the choke ...


Not that there would've been anything adding to the mess but here's what it
was runnin at the time :

old Autolite 2100 that I had rebuilt once in the garage, on an egr baseplate
that was blocked off ...

160deg thermostat that almost let the heat gauge get off of cold ...

and no heat riser at all, was runnin headers and the stock airbox ...

> Well, you gotta do what you gotta do.
> I suppose if I was forced to use the water heated spacer I'd probably
> put a good heat insulating spacer on the manifold, put the heated spacer
> on top of that, then the carb. I'd put a shutoff valve on the water inlet
> to the spacer so I could shut it off in hot weather and turn it on in
> cold. Maybe that would be the best of both worlds...
>

I've never had a problem with this spacer in hot weather ...even my fresh
390 at 99+deg sitting in traffic in Chicago didn't overheat ... it
threatened to, but it wasn't stalling out or threatening vapor lock in the
least ...

This winter will be the true test as I didn't have it hooked up last winter
...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 07:35:32 PST
From: "James Stepke"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Capacities

I haven't had a chance to get a manual yet but i need to know how much oil
to put in my 400 V8?? Also, what type of spark plugs and wires should I use
for the tune up?? Also a cap and rotor?? Should I order performance from
summit and go with NGK V power plugs or what?? Any info will be great!!
Thanks in advance
James
79 F150 4x4 400

______________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 07:35:44 PST
From: "James Stepke"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Capacities

I haven't had a chance to get a manual yet but i need to know how much oil
to put in my 400 V8?? Also, what type of spark plugs and wires should I use
for the tune up?? Also a cap and rotor?? Should I order performance from
summit and go with NGK V power plugs or what?? Any info will be great!!
Thanks in advance
James
79 F150 4x4 400

______________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:17:47 -0500
From: frenz.6 osu.edu (Dale Frenz)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Happy Diesel Owner

Man-O-Man...... that one guy is totally down on diesels. ....and he
says his younger, diesel owning brother is the screwy one. I especially
liked the "Ford Optioned Engine" part. Um......in my estimation, if FORD
likes Powerstrokes well enough to put them in their trucks, then I guess
that makes them a FORD OPTIONED ENGINE. What? You think all those ashtrays
and seatbelts are made right there on the Ford Proving Grounds? No. Many
lessons in manufacturing and subcontracting to be learned here. I guess
I'll go out and warm up my "worthless land yacht" right now. I might even
go haul around some groceries. Maybe I'll just go hook to a 20,000lbs
Gooseneck=81 trailer and speed by you gas-powered boys pulling your aluminum
bass boats, wheezin' up the hills. (I might even stick my tongue out for
fun.)

- -Dale
2000 F-250SD SC Powerstroked Badass 4x4
"Ruby" 1979 F-150 SC 4x4 (Who is gas-powered and dearly loved)


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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:55:24 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Happy Diesel Owner

Cool! And that whine you hear over the howl of the wind past my brick is
that 871 feeding the roller cam 460 powered bronco that just flew by :-)
Ok, so, at this point I'm still dreaming but some day......:-)

When they added the turbo to the diesel they made a winner for sure. Too
bad it burns that stinky old oil instead of sweet smelling gas......:-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Man-O-Man...... that one guy is totally down on
> diesels. ....and he
> says his younger, diesel owning brother is the screwy one. I
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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 12:39:12 -0500
From: Ted Wnorowski
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - POR 15

At 09:31 AM 12/2/1999 -0500, you wrote:


>www.por15.com


Another thing about these guys. This stuff is available from a few
different places. Order directly from RestMotive Labs (POR-15). The first
order I made was for 2 of their Super Starter Kits. They goofed and sent me
2 jars of clear instead of gloss black. I called and they sent me 2 jars of
black, no charge. Their shipping is pretty quick too. Most of my orders
have taken 2-3 days from NJ to OH.

Ted Wnorowski
Bellevue,OH
' 64 F-250
352 transplant
4 speed
' 63 F-100
parts truck

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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 12:51:30 -0500
From: Ted Wnorowski
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - POR 15

At 12:39 PM 12/2/1999 -0500, you wrote:

> I called and they sent me 2 jars of black, no charge.

> Ted Wnorowski
> Bellevue,OH
> ' 64 F-250
> 352
> transplant
> 4
> speed
> ' 63 F-100
> parts
> truck
>
I forgot. They told me to keep the jars of clear !
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:29:32 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Water heated 4v carb spacer

As I see it, the temp of the coolant never reaches the carb since the spacer
is made of aluminum and the air carries a lot of the heat away maintaining
the spacer itself at a lower temp but still warmer than ambient for sure. I
believe the stove is the real answer too since it does respond very quickly
after starting the engine but may not be the only solution.

The exhaust cross over is very important along with the stove and I run my
stove strictly by manifold vacuum with no temp controls because I want it
as hot as I can get it at part throttle settings. Most engines have only
one snorkle and the ones with two usually only have one stove and flapper
but I'd seriously consider adding a second one myself. It's on my list but
haven't got around to it yet :-) In warmer climates a temp control may be
indicated, not sure. I suppose there must be some limit on the most
efficient temp even at cruise :-) I've heard numbers as high as 300 degrees
though and no stove will elevate it that much even in the desert :-)

Smokey pretty much proved that for part throttle operation, warmer is
"ALWAYS" better for street engines :-)

I don't want my fuel to boil in the carb however so the hot spacer is still
a debatable issue and an insulated micarta spacer is still on my list to
try. The M block and 385 series seem to be prone to do this heat soak thing
more than other engines I've had so for these it may help. There is also
the issue of how thick to make it. I've heard a 2" spacer will do certain
things to the intake to make it more efficient under certain conditions,
probably high speeds, not sure. I've also heard that up to one inch has
little effect on the intake operation so can be used more or less
indescriminantly as long as the ports all match up well and you don't
introduce leaks in the process. Seems like I tried some spacers once on my,
not so well tuned, 460 and was not impressed but they were rather makeshift.

It just occured to me that part of my problem with the 460 is due to adding
headers and eliminating the stove I had on it before with the manifolds.
Got to look into that next time I get around to working on it :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Yep, I agree that warmer air temps help atomization and economy,
> but I doubt that a 3/4" thick heated specer under the carb does
> much to heat the large mass of air that passes thru it.
> Mostly it just heats the carb, which I don't think is
> neccesarily a good thing. A good heat stove on the air inlet
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:51:24 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Capacities

Well......we've been over this "V" thing quite a bit and most of us agree
that it's a waste of money. I believe that the 4 prong or circular
electrode (Torkmaster) may be an improvement though due to larger spark
surface for leaner mixtures. For most gas, carbed engine applications I
would recommend standard, single, copper electrode plugs. Remember that
Platinum also has an inherently higher resistance to electrical flow than
copper.

Platinum plugs were invented for EFI, lean burn engines which also typically
have better ignition systems (hotter spark) because of hotter combustion
temps and drier conditions the plugs don't foul so easily so last longer but
the electrodes still erode at the same or even faster rate in these engines.
I see no advantage in a carbed engine application but are well worth the
money in an EFI engine IMHO :-)

If you have heli wires like the SVO 9mm blue jobbies you don't need resistor
plugs but I don't know if you can even get non resistor plugs any more. I'm
still looking for a set for the bronco.

The 79 should already have the large head cap on it and Summit has as good a
price as anyone for these parts. In this area you sort of get what you pay
for. If it seems like a cheap price there is probably a good reason so I
shy away from those discount brands myself. I think I paid around $12 for
the cap and rotor in a set and $42 for the 9mm wires from Summit.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> I haven't had a chance to get a manual yet but i need to know
> how much oil
> to put in my 400 V8?? Also, what type of spark plugs and
> wires should I use
> for the tune up?? Also a cap and rotor?? Should I order
> performance from
> summit and go with NGK V power plugs or what?? Any info will
> be great!!
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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 14:24:00 -0500
From: Ted Wnorowski
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Carb. Adjust.

OK, I got the fast idle cam set, readjusted the curb idle. Now when I mash
the gas pedal quickly it dies out. If I steadily give the gas it revs up
fine. Just for reference, Holley 600 CFM, manual choke, vacuum secondaries.
Any help always appreciated.

Ted Wnorowski
Bellevue,OH
' 64 F-250
352 transplant
4 speed
' 63 F-100
parts truck

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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:05:50 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Carb. Adjust.

With Holley's it's not just a simple matter of turning a screw :-( If you
mean when cold then this is one thing but when warm it is probably something
else. Typically when cold with choke on you have enough richness to power
through the off idle flat spot but once warm you have to play with the power
valve and idle mixture and timing.

You should have the black spring in the secondary vac on a heavy vehicle
like a 4x4 but lighter pickups which do not actually work for a living can
get away with lighter springs there. Also, Holley's and other 4v's
sometimes have a problem with the secondary sticking part way open. You can
tune this out at idle so you don't realize what it's doing but then it has a
detrimental effect on the part throttle, off idle performance so make sure
the secondaries are closing all the way, tune it for that and then if they
stick you will know immediately because it will increase the idle speed,
sometimes dramatically! :-)

If you are running with ported vac try manifold and readjust the idle
mixture to match being carefull to balance them from side to side. If this
has no affect then the power valve may be the problem. I like the dual
power valve in a truck and also like to have a low low and medium high so
something like 3-4 bottom and 10-12 top but you want the valve closed at
cruise so if you are cruising at 60 with 15" of vacuum then 12 will work but
if you can't get more than 10" at 60 under steady throttle on flat ground
then you have to go lower, perhaps 8 or so. Very slight changes in throttle
cause fairly large changes in vacuum so a 2" margin is about right IMHO.
For the bottom it depends on how often you get into it and how hard. Nearly
WOT, that is not quite to the floor usually nets me around 3" so I shoot for
that or a little higher up to about 5" depending on what I can find at auto
parts. The ranges are somewhat limited on the shelf but they can be ordered
in almost any combination. There are also large and small port versions so
for a large engine like a 460 you will want the larger ports to allow enough
flow.

If this is not doing the trick then you will have to change the jets to a
richer size most likely. Many try to lean things out so much that it
starves the transition phase and try to make up with the power valve but
that is not the right way to do it IMHO. These should share the burden of
supplying fuel for the best compromise.

Last but not least and perhaps even first, the accellerator pump discharge
nozzles and pump stroke may be wrong for the application or may not be
working at all or only partially. You can usually get a rough idea by
looking down the carb (engine off) and opening the throttle slowly and
noting whether fuel is sqirted or not. It should be fairly wet and smooth
and steady through most of the throttle travel. If not, some adjusment or
repairs may be in order.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> OK, I got the fast idle cam set, readjusted the curb
> idle. Now when I mash
> the gas pedal quickly it dies out. If I steadily give the gas
> it revs up
> fine. Just for reference, Holley 600 CFM, manual choke,
> vacuum secondaries.
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 18:42:04 -0500
From: "David J. Turner"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 66 flasher location

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:34:24 EST
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 66 flasher location

In a message dated 12/1/99 5:24:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
whitewolf_ hotmail.com writes:

> And on that note does anyone knbow where I can find the turn signal
> flasher for my '66 F100?

To answer this question specifically, you can find it under the dash
directly above the steering column but also on top of an approx. 2" wide
brace that supports the dash, (close to the top of the dash underside). You
can't see it and need three extra joints in your arm to get at it. But once
you find it, it isn't so bad.
Don't be confused by the flasher directly behind the dash beside the
emergency flasher. This truck has two flashers, one for 4 ways and one for
turn signals. The turn signal flasher is the hard one.
The flasher itself is just like all the others, and the auto parts
stores carry them.
Hope this helps. (It took me two years to find my flasher!)
Another note on compressors. I haven't seen anyone talk about Quincy
Compressor. I have a two stage 5hp 60gal vertical that can handle anything
you can put on it. About $1000.


I have tried 3 diff auto stores and Dennis
> Carpenter and cannot find it... Although I might be looking for the wrong
> thing. The auto stores give me a little round flasher with 2
prongs(which
> is what I am used to) but I cannot find anything like that on my truck!
> What I am seeing as my flasher is on the engine side of the firewall with
a
> fuse on it.... Help?

Any part store worth its salt should have this item....I think you have
what you need already, but you are looking in the wrong place for your
original. Try under the dash near the steering column.

Stock Man
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee

Dave
66 F1 Shortbed auto, stock


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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:53:14 EST
From: AndyMFJ684 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - (no subject)

hi
i was wondering if an automatic trans and drive shaft from a 77 f 250 with a
351 m would fit in my 65 f 250 with a 352 and was also wondering if any one
knows where to get the little plastic piece on the window track mine broke
and i had to tie it up to keep it closed
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:05:07 -0500
From: tfreeman murphyfarms.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - (no subject)

The trannys won't swap. The FE (352) has a different bolt pattern for the
bellhousing.

- -Ted



hi
i was wondering if an automatic trans and drive shaft from a 77 f 250 with a
351 m would fit in my 65 f 250 with a 352 and was also wondering if any one
knows where to get the little plastic piece on the window track mine broke
and i had to tie it up to keep it closed
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:05:26 -0800 (PST)
From: canzus seanet.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Capacities

At 01:51 PM 2:12:99 -0500, Peters, Gary (G.R.) wrote:

>
>Platinum plugs were invented for EFI, lean burn engines which also typically
>have better ignition systems (hotter spark) because of hotter combustion
>temps and drier conditions the plugs don't foul so easily so last longer but
>the electrodes still erode at the same or even faster rate in these engines.

As Rockette's Uncle Bob says;

"platinum plugs won't improve the performance of any stock style ignition,
Period. *BUT* if you're running 12:1 compression or higher, with a super
high output coil and big gaps on racing fuels, you'll see an improvement
with most of the platinum plugs that are available today...."

I tend to believe what Uncle Bob says, He's been wrenching exotics for
35 years.

Steve & the Rockette
68 F100, 390cid, FMX
63 F100, 292cid, 3speed
72 Capri 2000, hers
73 Capri 2600,tube frame going in.....
73 MGB GT, Our Toy
94 SHO, SWMBO's
98 Contour SVT, Mine, Mine, All Mine....

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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:05:24 -0800 (PST)
From: canzus seanet.com
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Capacities

At 01:51 PM 2:12:99 -0500, Peters, Gary (G.R.) wrote:

>
>Platinum plugs were invented for EFI, lean burn engines which also typically
>have better ignition systems (hotter spark) because of hotter combustion
>temps and drier conditions the plugs don't foul so easily so last longer but
>the electrodes still erode at the same or even faster rate in these engines.

As Rockette's Uncle Bob says;

"platinum plugs won't improve the performance of any stock style ignition,
Period. *BUT* if you're running 12:1 compression or higher, with a super
high output coil and big gaps on racing fuels, you'll see an improvement
with most of the platinum plugs that are available today...."

I tend to believe what Uncle Bob says, He's been wrenching exotics for
35 years.

Steve & the Rockette
68 F100, 390cid, FMX
63 F100, 292cid, 3speed
72 Capri 2000, hers
73 Capri 2600,tube frame going in.....
73 MGB GT, Our Toy
94 SHO, SWMBO's
98 Contour SVT, Mine, Mine, All Mine....

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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:18:14 -0500
From: "Rich"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 390 HEADS for 360 motor

Hello friends,
last year I posted a question about replacement steering parts for my 76
F250 HiBoy 4X4. I replaced every component (gear box, cylinder, contol
valve, pump and hoses) and it works fine, well, it works anyway :). Thanks
CJ for the help\advice\source! I'm just finishing up the engine rebuild on
my son's mustang, and while at the machine shop, I asked if they had any
36090 parts laying around for sale. The owner told me he has a complete
390 engine for sale, disassembled, all machine work done, for $1100.00.
This includes all new parts, new headers, and an eldelblock intake still in
the box. He said the customer put up half the money for a rebuild over 2
years ago and never came back. All I want is the heads ($225.00 pr) and
intake ($100.00). My question is this, Will these 390 heads work ok on my
76 360? I know they will bolt on, just not sure of the performance. The
owner of the machine shop stated he had no idea what year or vehicle this
motor came out of. My heads are so worn, I get exhaust gas blowing past the
valve guides. (trust me) I'm going to meet him to look at and possibly
purchase these parts saturday morning, so a quick responce will be
appreciated from one of you FTE GURU'S. I've learned a lot from this list
the past couple of years, but don't remember a question like this being
posted. I'm on digest mode so I'll give my email address for hopefully a
quick responce. richth mindspring.com

TIA
Rich Thomas

PS: I just purchase a Borg Warner clutch and pressure plate for my truck.
The clutch is copper clad and has several pieces which look like brake pads
attatched to it instead of the usual flat material like every other clutch
Ive seen all my life. The "pads" are supposed to have kevlar impegnated in
them. Before I put this in, anyone have any experience with this setup?
Good or bad.

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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:53:24 EST
From: SevnD2 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 390 HEADS for 360 motor

In a message dated 12/02/1999 11:18:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
richth mindspring.com writes:


The clutch is copper clad and has several pieces which look like brake pads
attatched to it instead of the usual flat material like every other clutch
Ive seen all my life. The "pads" are supposed to have kevlar impegnated in
them. Before I put this in, anyone have any experience with this setup?
Good or bad. >>

All of or most of the heavy semi trucks where I work get these kind of
clutches . They have what appears to be a copper coating on them when new and
look like semi metallic brake pads when worn down . I have never noticed any
loose pads after long hard use . It is a regular thing for these trucks to
get clutch adjustments though . Driver habits have much to do with this .
I am not sure of the makeup of the material in them . Doesn't look like
kevlar or regular clutch lining either .
Hope this helps .
Rollie.
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:15:33 -0600
From: Jeff Lester
Subject: FTE 61-79 - A LIL MO' INFO.........

Been, and still am, busy moving, so I haven't had the time to
sit down and write a biography... till now.

My name is Jeff Lester, and I live in League City, Texas, which
is about 15 miles south of Houston. I attended Georgia Institute
of Technology, and completed my mechanical engineering
degree at the University of Idaho, in Moscow, Idaho. Someday
I will return to the Northwest... pretty country, indeed. I am a
36 year old professional mechanical engineer, and the Corporate
Engineering and Quality Control Manager for Phoenix Exchanger
Works, in Baytown, Texas. We build and repair shell-and-tube
heat exchangers and pressure vessels, for the petro-chemical
industry.

My two kids, Averie (7) and Keegan (5), and I are now sharing
a house with a good friend and his two kids. My wife of seven
years recently divorced me earlier this year, so I'm getting use
to being single again.

For as long as I can remember, I have wanted a 4x4 Ford van.
If I can ever find it, I'll scan the pencil drawing of a late 70's
Ford Pathfinder van that I did in high school. Although I have
strayed from the True Blue path as few times, I keep coming
back to Fords. My first car was a 70 Maverick, I believe, with
a straight six. Man... did the car smoke or what :-) It was passed
to my sister as I graduated to faster and faster cars. I owned
a 74 Capri 2.8l street car turned race car project... still wished
I owned that one. Autocrossed and hill climbed it in the Northwest,
and had a lot of fun doing it. Moved to Casper, Wyoming from
Boise, Idaho, where I met and married my ex-wife. Bought and
sold a 76 F150 4x4 with a 428. That truck would scoot, but did
not have enough room for our growing family. Bought and sold
an 89 F250 4x4 SuperCab with a 460. Lots of family wheeling
fun was had in that rig. After numerous other vehicles, I decided
earlier this year to fly to San Jose, California, and look over my
current 4x4 which I found on the internet. Scooby was too nice
to pass up, so I drove him 2000+ miles back home to Houston.
After buying the van in January, my wife (at the time) had the
misfortune to rear-end a 98 S10 Blazer in April. The van was
in the body shop for 4 months, and then in the 4x4 shop (for
suspension repair) for a couple more. Not driving the van for
six months killed me. Then when the ex decided she had enough
of me, I decided right then and there that Scooby was going to
be around for a long... long time. We have been having fun ever
since. I can honestly say that I love my truck :-) and my truck
loves me

Oh... and by the way, Ken, you are doing a great job. I enjoy
this community, and appreciate the fact that it would not be
possible without your efforts. My hat's off to ya...

Y'all take care, and if you are ever in this neck of the woods, let
me know...

Jeff Lester and Scooby - League City, Texas
78 Ford E350 4x4, 460, C6, NP205, D44/70,3.73, 35" BFG MT's
http://www.ford-trucks.com/pictorial/big/1978_e350_1.html
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.maddmansrealm.com/offroad/creek1.htm
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.maddmansrealm.com/offroad/creek2.htm
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.maddmansrealm.com/offroad/creek8.htm
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.maddmansrealm.com/offroad/creek9.htm

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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:30:45 -0800
From: Pat Brown
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Apprenticeship

Hi everyone, still catching up!

> Kiernan, Denny asked a while back:
> > Being born too late to be around when these 60's and 70's came out, how
> > did you learn the mechanics? Of course if your dad or somebody was into
> > them and you picked it up from him, it's easy to see. But are there any
> > who learned it a different way? How did you do it?

I'm pretty sure I began with a 'visible v8' model engine. It was
actually
my older brothers, but I remember taking it apart, and reassembling it
repeatedly while studying the book. These are still available, along
with
a 4 cyl turbo engine. The originals (60's) were a bit better than the
latest
ones I saw, as they had an electric starter to 'crank' the engine, and
a functional distributor driving flashing light spark plugs. With a
clear
block and heads, you could watch all of the components oscillate and
rotate -
very cool! The newer models have a hand crank, but end effect is the
same.

Following that, there were mini-bikes, go-carts, and motorcycles. By
then,
all 3 of my brothers were driving, which provided nearly unlimited
practice of my developing skills, much to their delight:-) High school
auto shop provided the tools and guidance for me to rebuild my first
engine (including boring cylinders and grinding valves, a Ford Cortina),
and an automatic trans (mom's Imp l powerglide). My shop teacher then
got me job in a local NAPA parts house, which really rounded out my
automotive education.

After High School, I began work as a mechanic. I bought a nice set of
tools while figuring out I really didn't want to wrench on cars every
day for a living. So, back to school (electronics, which is what I did
pick up from dad), while working alternately as a mechanic and as a
parts counterman. To this day, there is nothing I won't tackle on any
of my cars, the only work I have done for me is 1) Tires and 2) Smog
inspections. A few years back I had a broken rear end rebuilt for me
as I thought I was too busy to work on it. After eight weeks, $700,
and a couple of false starts I had a rear end that was barely
acceptable,
I vowed I'll never be to busy to fix something myself :-)
- --
Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California

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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 23:18:14 -0800
From: Pat Brown
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Loose steering

David.R.John deluxe.com writes:

> I just want to add that the steering on 78 F250 4x4 is power
> steering. Hopefully that gives the info you all need to help
> me get this tightened up. Thanks all..............

OK David,
I'm still not sure which box you have, but here is the procedure
for the Ford integral power steering:

1) Disconnect Pittman arm
2) Disconnect fluid return line, run steering from lock to lock
a few times to drain all fluid from box.
3) Turn wheel 45 degrees from left stop.
4) Use an INCH-pound torque wrench on the steering wheel nut,
determine torque required to rotate shaft about 1/8 turn.
5) Return wheel to center, again use torque wrench to determine
torque required to rotate shaft through center position.
6) Torque over center should be 11-12 inch-pounds greater than
45 degree reading. Adjust if neccesary, repeat measurements.
7) Re-attach, re-fill, and bleed, yada-yada-yada.

If you have a Bendix gear (i don't think they used Bendix as
late as '78), the procedure is a quite a bit different as there
are three adjustments.

Hope this helps
- --
Pat Brown
Sebastopol, California

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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:53:00 -0800
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Fuel system Springs was Electric Fuel Pump

> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 06:36:21 -0500
> From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
> Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Electric Fuel Pump

SNIP

> .....but I believe the mechancal pumps have a
> spring between the arm and the diaphram which limits the pressure
> they can generate as well, not a regulator as such so, again, if you
> have less resistance on the one side of the pump it is possible to
> generate more than the spring would indicate.

Gary,
I must take issue with the above statement.
If a spring is used as you described, reaches it's knee point at 7 PSI
output pressure from the pump, then that is all the more pressure that it
will give period. If the spring is further compressed into stack up or coil
bind then and only then will it give higher pressure, I.E.: infinite.
This spring as you describe is in fact being used in this application as a
regulator.
As Steve pointed out the pressure is the combination of the spring force
over the diaphragm, with atmospheric pressure balancing out across the
system. The only way to achieve higher pressure in this situation is to have
the supply pressure be greater then the pump output capability, or to
increase the spring rate. If you pressurize the supply side of the pump it
is possible to simply over ride the pump; then the question becomes one of
why is the pump there?

> If the last mechanism in the line indeed does have a regulator then the
> static pressure in the output line would determine the pump output
> pressure and you would be absolutely right :-)

In the case of the Carb the orifice size of the needle and seat and in some
cases the needle spring are primarily designed to meter flow; however they
will to a degree function as a pressure regulator. The leverage of the float
provides the primary pressure regulation. In EFI there is all most always a
regulator. In both cases the better designed systems use a bypass regulator,
with the bypass returning to the tank.
The pump output pressure will be at its maximum at all times until the
system is at a greater pressure then the pump is capable of(the knee point
of the spring), at this point the pump is in the bypass mode and is
effectively producing no pressure.
However the "fuel system" pressure may vary, due to the volume being used.
Under normal operating conditions the fuel system will not have fuel
pressure greater then the maximum pressure capability of the pump(s).
Optimally designed systems will pump out of the tank, to the Carb(EFI) only
the amount that is needed, and supply it at the required pressure. This is
a complex system on anything but a steady state engine, so most systems are....


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