From: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com (61-79-list-digest)
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Subject: 61-79-list-digest V3 #437
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61-79-list-digest Saturday, November 27 1999 Volume 03 : Number 437



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - 65 F100 & lead additive
FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge
FTE 61-79 - Re: GT 500 FE Heads and Headers
FTE 61-79 - Breakfast
FTE 61-79 - Apprenticeship
Re: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge
RE: FTE 61-79 - Transmission Lube
FTE 61-79 - GT 500 FE Heads
FTE 61-79 - Transmission Lube
FTE 61-79 - Highboy Gas Tanks????
Re: FTE 61-79 - more bio
Re: FTE 61-79 - Transmission Lube
FTE 61-79 - It's alive
Re: FTE 61-79 - Highboy Gas Tanks????
Re: FTE 61-79 - It's alive
Re: FTE 61-79 - It's alive
Re: FTE 61-79 - It's alive
FTE 61-79 - Cast Iron FE Rocker Arm Stanchions
FTE 61-79 - T18 Rebuild kits sources
Re: FTE 61-79 - Cast Iron FE Rocker Arm Stanchions
FTE 61-79 - As If!
FTE 61-79 - As If!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Cast Iron FE Rocker Arm Stanchions
FTE 61-79 - FEs/Bio
Re: FTE 61-79 - Transmission Lube
Re: FTE 61-79 - It's alive
Re: FTE 61-79 - Transmission Lube
Re: FTE 61-79 - As If!
FTE 61-79 - GT 500 heads

=======================================================================

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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 02:40:24 -0800
From: John Lord
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 65 F100 & lead additive

After a long period of time the valve seats have to wear out (recess) without
lube, the reason is that when the exaust valve contacts the seat it is so hot it
will weld it self to the seat then when the valve opens it rips a bit of the
seat away (the amount is so small it takes years). The problem with propane is
10 times as bad as gas. Exaust valves with "roto" caps tend to slow the wear
down because the valve is spinning as it contacts preventing the welding action.

Most old heads running their original cast iron seats will last longer than
those that have been thorough a valve grind. From the factory most exaust seats
were induction hardened (only the first few thousands of an inch are tougher)
and grinding the seats can remove the hardening.

Additives may help for a time but the only real permanent solution is to have
hardend sets put in.

My opinion is that when the time comes to do the work do it right and dont worry
about it again.

(Valve / Seat grinding and the instalation of guides and seats are what i do to
make extra pocket money)

Bird Sandi M CNFB wrote:

> Roberta wrote:
>
> so I haven't but I'm getting the impression from some of the recent comments
> that perhaps I should begin>
>
> Roberta,
> This was a big concern of mine when they dropped the lead many years ago in
> California. The one person I trust with my truck (he's a master mechanic on
> OLD vehicles, shows and races a 55 Chevy but loves my Ford), told me that if
> I didn't add the lead additive, the unleaded fuel would burn my valves and I
> would eventually have to replace them with new "harder" ones. I don't
> question him on anything, so I've just taken that as the gospel, but I've
> been doing it religiously on both my 65 F100 and my 43 Ford 9N tractor, and
> so far everything is still original on both and both are still running
> perfectly.
>
> However, just because I do it, doesn't mean I know for sure that it has to
> be done. Seems to me that there are a lot of people on this list that
> really do know the answer/mechanics to this one. Anyone care to jump in and
> explain this one to us? And any possible ideas on the best additive to use.
> There are quite a few out there and because I use so much of it, between the
> truck and the tractor, I usually head for the least expensive.
>
> Sandi & Hank
> 65 F100
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 07:47:43 EST
From: SMOKEY5209 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge

Any of the gang know when Pigeon Forge 2000 will be held?
thanks
Ed
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 07:01:37 -0600
From: "InkDezJim"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: GT 500 FE Heads and Headers

The C7AE-A was a generic FE head, at least from a performance standpoint. It
had standard combustion chambers. If it did in fact come from a Mustang,
then it should be drilled like the GT heads on the exhaust side. If so, it
will rely on holes to the sides of the ports, not above and below. The
latter is the standard FE configuration. In Cougars and Mustangs they had to
use a different bolt pattern to allow for clearance to the shock towers. If
you do have the "non-standard" bolt pattern, you can drill and tap the heads
to a standard pattern and use a generic truck header. Some headers have
flanges that will allow you to drill them to match (at least part of) the
head's bolt pattern. I have GT heads and am doing both on mine, figuring
that having 4 bolts per port instead of 2 can only help prevent infamous
header warp. As far as headers go, if you want inexpensive, Either Hooker
or Hedman (can't remember which, but I think Hedman) makes a truck header
with the GT pattern that my local speed shop sells for 167.99. I have never
found inexpensive shorties though.

Jim E.
'69 F-100 2WD



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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 08:17:06 -0800
From: "O'Connor"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Breakfast

CJ,
If you ever make it to North Carolina, I'll buy you breakfast. Keep on
trucking.
Tim 66F100
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 08:57:28 -0800
From: "O'Connor"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Apprenticeship

I was there during the 60's and 70's but didn't do much repair on cars
except for the occasional muffler or emergency water pump. BTW, my first
new car was a 66 Mustang. When we were at home, we couldn't afford cars to
play with and so I tinkered with lawn mowers and motor scooters. Didn't
have my first car unitl I was 19 (56 Ch*%#). Later, I had a 78 CJ5 Jeep (in
the late 80's). It was constant repair and was a rust bucket. Had to
repair the transmission too. When the 66 F100 arrived, we started a full
restoration while trying to drive the thing daily. Most of our knowledge
(my son and I) came from trial and error, common sense, asking questions
from friends/dealors, the shop mamual and the ever present FTE list. It
will come with time and patience. Good Luck.
Tim 66F100
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 09:07:39 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Pigeon Forge

Didn't this just get answered?

SMOKEY5209 aol.com wrote:
>
> Any of the gang know when Pigeon Forge 2000 will be held?
> thanks
> Ed
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 07:24:20 -0800
From: "Hogan, Tom"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Transmission Lube

This has been discussed before. I remember that someone ditched the 90Wt
for engine oil and his shifting improved noticably. I think the consensus
was that the lighter oil is an improvement in this case. BTW I would start
checking E-bay for a used set of Helms manual and use the chilton to keep
your jackstands off that dirty shop floor. Better application for the
chilton's manual :0)

Tom H.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Kiernan, Denny [mailto:dennyk wenet.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 8:11 PM
To: FTE
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Transmission Lube


Any opinions on this one? The owner's manual for my '72 F-100 360 2WD
4-speed manual, with140K on it, recommends engine oil SAE 50 for the
transmisson. The Chilton book recommends SAE 80 or 90. (I'm in the San
Francisco Bay area, where the temp almost never goes below 25 or above
105.) I would just ask a mechanic here, but I still haven't found one
that seems to know what he's doing.

Denny
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:14:51 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - GT 500 FE Heads

Hey Danger,

They have the standard 8 holes (vertical)....I'm liking the bigger combustion
chamber, this should lower the ratio a little, since I'm not sure if you can
get anything less that 10:1's for the 428....

Thanks!

CJ
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:14:44 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Transmission Lube

Denny,

Definitely go with the 50wt....it really makes that tranny easier to
shift!!!!!!!!!

I switched over from the 90wt stuff and it made a BIG difference...

CJ
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:49:39 EST
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Highboy Gas Tanks????

Has anyone attempted to put in an oversize gas tank in their highboy? At the
same time, removing the tank behind the seat???? I'm hoping to avoid the dual
tank setup again....

CJ
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 08:43:31 -0800
From: Tim Bowman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - more bio

CJ:

Nice bio and it was sure a pleasure to meet you out here in Tukwila,
WA. I hope to get to Denver sometime in the next 6 months on business.
If you'll bring your Ford Truck out, I'll buy dinner ; (same offer
as CJ has when he's travelling).

I'm off to look at a '56 p/u project today. Just can't get them out of
my blood.

- --
Tim Bowman
Burien, WA
tkbowman uswest.net


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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 12:30:05 -0700
From: "Kiernan, Denny"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Transmission Lube

Hogan, Tom wrote:
>
> . . . BTW I would start
> checking E-bay for a used set of Helms manual and use the chilton to keep
> your jackstands off that dirty shop floor. Better application for the
> chilton's manual :0)

Is there one particular book that is regarded as the bible for the '72
F-100?

Denny
'72 F-100 360 2WD 4-speed manual, with140K on it
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 17:11:09 -0600
From: Stu Varner
Subject: FTE 61-79 - It's alive

I fired the new engine today for the first time and man I am telling you
what, it is smooooth!!!!

I will give more gory details later on tonight! Right now, I must go get
the family who are all at grandmas house.

stu
Nuke GM!
Now, with a running truck after over 1,000 hours of work and 23 months out
of service! 8^)


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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:25:45 EST
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Highboy Gas Tanks????

In a message dated 11/26/99 11:51:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, BDIJXS aol.com
writes:

> I'm hoping to avoid the dual
> tank setup again....

Hey buddy---with 428 cubes your gonna need to mount a fuel tank on the back
of that bed!

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (HELP!---I need 15 x5 factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee

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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:27:14 EST
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - It's alive

In a message dated 11/26/99 6:06:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
nukegm ford-trucks.com writes:

> I fired the new engine today for the first time and man I am telling you
> what, it is smooooth!!!!

Congrats on the first firing! Big hurdles all done....now its time for the
final stretch.

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (HELP!---I need 15 x5 factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 17:48:57 -0800
From: "Charles T."
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - It's alive

Congrats Stu! I know how you feel. I fired my new 460 last week. I only
have headers right now. My neighbors are a little upset over the 20 minute
break-in. Today I replaced two rotors, all wheel bearings and the back drums
in preparation for new brakes.

Here it is:
www.hal-pc.org/~charlest/ford.html


Charles
1979 F150 4x4 (460 swap)

> I fired the new engine today for the first time and man I am telling you
> what, it is smooooth!!!!
>
> stu



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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 16:36:57 -0800
From: Don79XLT
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - It's alive

GREAT JOB!!!!!!!
Don
At 05:48 PM 11/26/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Congrats Stu! I know how you feel. I fired my new 460 last week. I only
>have headers right now. My neighbors are a little upset over the 20 minute
>break-in. Today I replaced two rotors, all wheel bearings and the back drums
>in preparation for new brakes.
>
>Here it is:
>www.hal-pc.org/~charlest/ford.html
>

Don
'79 Bronco Ranger XLT, 400,4.11's open diff,LT235x16",np205,and C6
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 19:38:57 -0500
From: "Ted and Sarah Freeman"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cast Iron FE Rocker Arm Stanchions

Anybody have or know where I can get the cast iron (tall) stanchions that
support the rocker arm shaft for an FE head? If you have some for sale,
please email me privately.

Does Ford Motorsport/SVO have them??

- -Ted

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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 19:23:46 -0600
From: Brett L Habben
Subject: FTE 61-79 - T18 Rebuild kits sources

Folks,
Anybody know any sources for T-18 rebuild kits?
Thanks,
Brett
Super75cab
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 17:30:30 PST
From: "White Wolf"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Cast Iron FE Rocker Arm Stanchions

Cant get them at the auto store? I haven't tried myself but today I ordered
my 16 new rocker arms at Gateway Auto Supply.


>From: "Ted and Sarah Freeman"
>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>To:
>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cast Iron FE Rocker Arm Stanchions
>Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 19:38:57 -0500
>
>Anybody have or know where I can get the cast iron (tall) stanchions that
>support the rocker arm shaft for an FE head? If you have some for sale,
>please email me privately.
>
>Does Ford Motorsport/SVO have them??
>
>-Ted
>
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______________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 17:33:32 PST
From: "White Wolf"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - As If!

______________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 17:46:05 PST
From: "White Wolf"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - As If!

Whoops, sorry about the blank post...

Anyways, as I was saying, As if I wasn't having enough problems with the
truck lately I noticed last night as I was driving home that my turn signals
are not working when my heater is on!!!!
The left doesn't work at all and the right works at about a 3rd the speed
of normal, and then turn off the heater and all is well.

This keep up Im gonna have to get a new truck... I love to work on my
vehicles but not 4or5 days a week.

______________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 20:45:15 -0500
From: "Ted and Sarah Freeman"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Cast Iron FE Rocker Arm Stanchions

I know they have rocker arms and some even have the shafts, but I can only
find the aluminum stanchions. I have a little more cam and stronger valve
springs than what I had and don't want to use aluminum if I don't have to.

- -Ted

- -----Original Message-----
From: White Wolf
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Cast Iron FE Rocker Arm Stanchions


>Cant get them at the auto store? I haven't tried myself but today I ordered
>my 16 new rocker arms at Gateway Auto Supply.
>
>
>>From: "Ted and Sarah Freeman"
>>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>>To:
>>Subject: FTE 61-79 - Cast Iron FE Rocker Arm Stanchions
>>Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 19:38:57 -0500
>>
>>Anybody have or know where I can get the cast iron (tall) stanchions that
>>support the rocker arm shaft for an FE head? If you have some for sale,
>>please email me privately.
>>
>>Does Ford Motorsport/SVO have them??
>>
>>-Ted
>>
>>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>______________________________________________________
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>

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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:22:27 -0800
From: "S.Harkema"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FEs/Bio

>I have a set of C7AE-A FE heads, and I'm told they are for a 67 Shelby >GT 500.

>I thought GT500s only came with 428s or is that for the 68 model year.
>Pardon my ignorance, I'm FE challenged...

> Steve Crist's book say's they came from a 67 352, 390, 410 428 w/o air

I have a set of these on my 428 and the only differences I can see are
larger intake ports and 16 exhaust manifold bolt holes


>Over the years some have tossed their FE's in favor of a 351
>W/C/M(whatever) with all the work involved with swapping engine >families.
> is there some insurmountable problem with the FE352?

Any FE is a fine engine.I think all FEs have a reputation for less than
stellar gas mileage but with proper tuning they will get decent milage.
There were a ton of 352s built and they were the work horse of FoMoCo in
the 60's and I'm sure with the proper combo of intake cam and exhaut you
could build a real screamer.

>punishment at places like Pismo Beach where the 390 with uncapped
>headers would zing us around the backside of those sand dunes wide open >in 3rd gear, with us laughing all the way

This statement brought back fond memories and inspired me to post a
little bio myself.
My name is Scott Harkema, I'm 41,married,two children,live in Reno and
I own three Fords.
91 stone stock Explorer,excellent little truck tho not as sturdy as my
older Fords but a well built all season vehicle.
84 F-250 4x2 S/C,not some of Henry's finest work.Smog choked 460 with a
carb.Vacum lines everywhere.Comparing it to the Explorer I can tell fuel
injection is obviously the way to go emmision wise.
Saving the best for last 76 F-250 4x4 I have owned this truck over 20
years and have had a 360 two 390's and a currently have built 428 in it.
Odometer show over 240,000 on it but I think it is the only part I
haven't rebuilt or replaced on the whole truck:)
In the early 80's I spent alot of time in the dunes with it. Air down
the tires,open the headers and tear it up.Towed a sand drag buggie to
the races on occasion and I would race the truck and the buggie.Had a
blast. 3/4 ton a bit heavy for racing,but I was still kicking a little
bow tie butt in the drags
Then got into off-road racing in the late 80s,early 90's.Towed the car
with it and used the truck for pre-run and chase duties.Way too heavy
for high speed off road duty compared to the 1/2 ton 4x2 pre-runnners
but I never broke it to the point I couldn't drive it home.
After that I got into rock crawling with my early bronco friends I
suffered alot of body damage but had a heck of a good time.
As all this was going on I would go wheelin' at least twice a week in
the hills around Reno.On one of these trips I flipped it on it's side at
about 50 mph.Insurance totaled my truck.Bought a new fender and door
junked the bed and built a real nice flat bed for it and painted the
whole truck primer gray .Ran it that way until wife, children, house
etc. came along.Got tired of tying grocerys camping gear etc on the flat
bed. Located a decent bed and primed it and stuck it on.
Truck then started another less intense life as a travel trailer
towing,occasional off-road truck.
Started picking up good glass,interior and body parts as time and money
allowed and worked on the body one panel at a time until I was ready to
park it. I then picked up a third vehicle to drive and then tore the
truck completly apart and did countless more hours of body work on it,
shaved all the chrome and emblems, and painted it and installed all the
new parts I collected. Truck went from a primered beater to a nice truck
in 2 months.After doing all that body and paint work I can guaratee it's
rock crawing and pre-running days are over,but we still go wheelin' on
occasion.
The 76 now sits in the garage most of the time.We take it on cruise
nights,some off road poker runs and I drive it to work on nice days.
They have just built a sand drag track 30 miles from here so .....
I use the 84 to tow the trailer now don't need the 76 for that,could put
a little more cam in it,I'm getting a new set of headers for it anyhow
could put the 600 AFB on the 84 and get a 750 AFB for the 76 and
....kick a little bow-tie butt in two milleniums with the same truck??
Better get out to the garage and get to work.
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:50:39 EST
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Transmission Lube

In a message dated 11/25/99 9:11:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dennyk wenet.net writes:


4-speed manual, with140K on it, recommends engine oil SAE 50 for the
transmisson. The Chilton book recommends SAE 80 or 90. >>

Use what the manufacture recommends and you can not go wrong. Yes, it is
supposed to be Engine Oil SAE 50 not Gear Oil 80 or 90. Just as an aside,
the 50 weight Engine Oil is the same weight/viscosity as 90 Gear Oil. They
use a different scale for Engine Oil and Gear Oil. The main reason Ford
calls for the Enigne Oil is that the additives are different, and they were
trying to avoid, for one, the sulfur in the Gear Oil. This list had quite
a discussion of this last year and it seems many people had the Gear Oil in
their tranny. The only problem that could occur from this would be some
discoloring and pitting of the brass parts, which in turn become brittle and
may break. Many still think 90 weight gear oil is heavier (higher viscosity)
than 50 weight engine oil, honest it is not. Yes, gear oil is designed to
run in the heavy duty environment and situations required in lubing gears,
preventing channeling and etc. But, 90 gear is not of a heavier weight or
higher viscosity than 50 engine. Hope I stated it better than last year.
Good question, good luck.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 23:17:11 -0500
From: Ken Payne
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - It's alive

Way to go Stu!!! Nothing like the smell of the paint on an
engine the first time she warms up!

Ken Payne
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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 20:39:01 -0700
From: "Kiernan, Denny"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Transmission Lube

SHill48337 aol.com wrote:

> Use what the manufacture recommends and you can not go wrong. Yes, it is
> supposed to be Engine Oil SAE 50 not Gear Oil 80 or 90. Just as an aside,
> the 50 weight Engine Oil is the same weight/viscosity as 90 Gear Oil. They
> use a different scale for Engine Oil and Gear Oil. . . .

Well, I think I can safely say I would never have figured that one out
on my own. Thanks very much, also to Tom Hogan, and CJ, for answering my
query.

I feel embarassed that, being such an amateur, I cant contribute
anything to this forum except questions. The only way I might be able to
pay anything back would be if any of you all did oil painting as a hobby
(or a profession, for that matter). That's the only thing I'm a real
expert in (besides cab driving). I've been painting for fifty years and
have learned a thing or two about drawing and painting materials,
techniques, and history. If any of you just happen to be into this, feel
free to email me and I can probably tell you anything you want to know.

Denny
'72 F-100 360 2WD Manual everything, 140K

I even spent the summer of '64 on the Jersey boardwalk airbrushing Big
Daddy Roth-type Dragsters and stuff on sweatshirts (without having the
slightest idea what I was doing -- I would get the local hot-rodders to
tell me how the cars were supposed to look.)
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Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 02:49:04 EST
From: IanBoss69 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - As If!

welcome to my world,,,,

Ian
79 F250 4x4 4spd 351M
True Blue Ford Blue
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