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Subject: 61-79-list-digest V3 #419
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61-79-list-digest Tuesday, November 16 1999 Volume 03 : Number 419



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

RE: FTE 61-79 - Starters, 400 = 460?
RE: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings
RE: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings
RE: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings
RE: FTE 61-79 - Modified or Midland
FTE 61-79 - unleaded gas
RE: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon
RE: FTE 61-79 - wrong torque specs(II)
RE: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings
Re: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon
RE: FTE 61-79 - Re: Prolonging death 351
FTE 61-79 - Re: Custom Badge (Was wrong Torque Specs II)
RE: FTE 61-79 - Custom analogies
RE: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon
RE: FTE 61-79 - F-E head torque & Dana offsets
RE: FTE 61-79 - Custom analogies
RE: FTE 61-79 - "Custom" trim
RE: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon
RE: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon
RE: FTE 61-79 - unleaded gas
RE: FTE 61-79 - Split manifold for I-6 240/300?
RE: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death in my 351M...
RE: FTE 61-79 - Aluminum vs. Cast Iron Intake for FE Big Block
RE: FTE 61-79 - Aluminum vs. Cast Iron Intake for FE Big Block
FTE 61-79 - Selling My truck!!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Selling My truck!!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings
Re: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon
Re: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon
FTE 61-79 - Re: Split manifold I-6 240/300?
RE: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon
RE: FTE 61-79 - Rare parts, radio?
FTE 61-79 - Old vs. New
Re: FTE 61-79 - unleaded gas
RE: FTE 61-79 - Old vs. New
RE: FTE 61-79 - Rare parts, radio?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Old vs. New
FTE 61-79 - keyrings
FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon
Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Split manifold I-6 240/300?
RE: FTE 61-79 - Starters, 400 = 460?
FTE 61-79 - Clutched Automatics
FTE 61-79 - Sizing of building
RE: FTE 61-79 - Starters, 400 = 460?
Re: FTE 61-79 - unleaded gas
Re: FTE 61-79 - Old vs. New
Re: FTE 61-79 - Aluminum vs. Cast Iron Intake for FE Big Block

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 06:30:30 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Starters, 400 = 460?

All the large V-8's have the same bolt pattern for the starter and the same
drive so they all interchange but I suggest you use the type with the
selenoid mounted on the starter for the 460 since it was designed for that
application and has more torque than the "standard" positive engagement
starter. Here at the plant we call them three pole and four pole because
the better one has all four poles solidly bolted to the frame where the
positive engagement 3 pole has a moveable pole which reduces the torque
output due to larger clearances etc.. Otherwise they are the same starter
in every way.

I burned up two 3 polers before I switched to the 4 pole and haven't had any
trouble since :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> I am (I think) ready to start my transplanted 460 in my 79
> F250 and was
> wondering if the starter from the orgional 400 will work on
> the 460.
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 06:48:25 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings

I generally use the same church key for everything.....why do you need more
than one? :-) I have spares but they all do the same job :-) Course now
with screw off caps they aren't really needed very often :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> church van) house keys, etc. Then I have one big ring for
> all of my church
> keys.
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 06:49:38 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings

Yeah and if they are all ford keys, they all look the same too :-(

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> confusing enough
> espicialy when your trying to find the ignition key.
> Travis
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 07:00:40 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings

Yes, that's very true. We could probably wire EDM you a very nice aluminum
characature of any size or shape for.....Oh.......say about $483.42 or so
:-)

When someone retires we make a desk name doflingy for him with an oak base
and his name in script out of 1/2" alumininum plate about 1" tall letters
all hooked together but with holes cut out for the letters etc.. They look
real nice but I would hate to put a price on them. They are done in our
"Spare" time :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> We are Land of the Consumers. If I may quote Arlo
> Guthrie--"You can get
> anything you want..."
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 07:04:03 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Modified or Midland

To be Frank with you, I don't even know it there "Is" a Midland plant? I
just keep hearing the name so I repeated it (like a dumb parrot :-)) :-)
- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> I am not familiar
> w/ the "Midland" Ford plant. Every M-block I've ever seen
> was cast at either
> the Michigan Casting Center (MCC) or the Cleveland Foundry
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 04:20:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Daniel DiMartino
Subject: FTE 61-79 - unleaded gas

exactly how bad is unleaded gas on older engines? i heard and
read many things about long term damage to valve seals but never
encountered anyone who had a motor go bad due to "use of
unleaded gas". are newer valve seals that protect and make up
the difference in lack of lubrication worth the effort and
cost?? i don't feel adding a gas substitute everytime i fuel up
is something i want to do, plus it's expensive, unless i could
have it added automaticly like some 2 stroke engines do. anyone
ever seen this or know if a mixing unit is avalible in such an
application? i'm lazy and haven't really researched it.


=====
Daniel DiMartino

1968 F-250 soon to be a 4x4
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:01:13 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon

From SWMBO's stand point You go to work to earn money then you come home and
spend all your time working on your truck and when you spend $300 on parts
it seems like a lot of money. They don't see the big picture and they see
you out in the shop instead of taking them shopping or working on the trim
in the bathroom or landscaping the yard etc.. Women don't seem to see the
economic side of the issue and then when they do try to see it what they see
is $300 worth of tools you only use once in 3 years and every time you work
on it you have to buy more tools so that by the time you count tools, parts
and time they figure you are better off to have a new truck which requires
no maintenance. Sad to say, in some cases, they have a solid case against
us but if you discount the time element old trucks are, by quite a margin,
less expensive than new ones and we have the added satisfaction of making
them suit our own concept of what a good truck should be :-) This concept
is another one women have trouble with. "Why can't you be satisfied with
just driving it like "everybody else"" "Why do you have to be different?"
"I never get to spend time with you anymore, you're always out there working
on something"

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> even SWMBO. "Why don't you get a new truck?" Let's see, I
> figure at least
> $600 a month payment for what I would buy, another $50 or so
> a month on
> insurance. Let's see, 600 times 12 comes out to 7200 plus 600
> on insurance
> equals $7800 per year. I could turn Henry into a #1 Concours
> show truck for
> that kind of cash!
== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 05:22:30 -0800
From: "Hogan, Tom"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - wrong torque specs(II)

Actually Ford is not the only maker whose "Custom" trim line is the lowest
available option equipped. I had a rice burner p'up (Mitsu-something sold
by pentstar) that was a custom trim line. Vinyl seats, am radio, 4 spd vs 5
spd trans, smaller engine no cruise control etc. In the 70's thru the 80's
the custom was the starter trim line. Ford then had other packages: Ranger
and Ranger XLT in the 70's Lariat started sometime in the 80's. These
offered cloth seats, am-fm radios etc.

I always thought that Custom meant that you had a base truck cause you were
going to customize it later anyway and didn't want to pay for a bunch of
options you were going to remove anyway. Anyone have a better explanation?

Tom H.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Brown [mailto:snoopytl1 hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 6:11 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - wrong torque specs(II)


Thanks,
for the advise, my wife was more understanding than I thought she'd
be(scary):-)....... Now that I've shown how little I know about mechanics,

I guess I'll show how little I know about Fords.
My wife was outside looking at my truck w/me and asked,"Why does it say
CUSTOM on the side of a completely STOCK truck?" to which I answered
"well....because its a Ford.":-) She just gave me a funny look and said
"Whatever"..... Does anyone else Know what Ford considers custom? Now my
truck has pwr brakes,auto trans.,other than that it doesn't have power
anything,no chrome(except grill & the words CUSTOM) It still has the
original plastic plate on the dash where the radio is supposed to go.


Stephen B.
71 F250 Custom

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 05:27:52 -0800
From: "Hogan, Tom"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings

If properly motivated I could probably make some keyfobs from leather that
would say anything you want.

Tom H

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bill Brox [mailto:bill online.no]
Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 11:22 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings


Hi all.

Do you have keyrings for every car over there,,, I mean a keyring that says
F-100, or F-250, also one for Galaxie, or Aerostar or whatever..... over
here I can only find Ford,,, not telling what kind of Ford it is ?

Just wondering.....

Bill




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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 06:35:15 -0700
From: William Whited
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon

Gary, That was a great one. My ex was like that didn't want me to have an older
vehicle and work on it, now that she is is gone it is like wow you can really
work on those trucks and keep them working. Too bad her loss. My current
girlfriend thinks it is the coolest thing that I can work on them.

William A Whited
74 F100 Ranger Supercab 390
77 F150 Custom 460
El Paso, TX
Semper Fi 224

"Peters, Gary (G.R.)" wrote:

> >From SWMBO's stand point You go to work to earn money then you come home and
> spend all your time working on your truck and when you spend $300 on parts
> it seems like a lot of money. They don't see the big picture and they see
> you out in the shop instead of taking them shopping or working on the trim
> in the bathroom or landscaping the yard etc.. Women don't seem to see the
> economic side of the issue and then when they do try to see it what they see
> is $300 worth of tools you only use once in 3 years and every time you work
> on it you have to buy more tools so that by the time you count tools, parts
> and time they figure you are better off to have a new truck which requires
> no maintenance. Sad to say, in some cases, they have a solid case against
> us but if you discount the time element old trucks are, by quite a margin,
> less expensive than new ones and we have the added satisfaction of making
> them suit our own concept of what a good truck should be :-) This concept
> is another one women have trouble with. "Why can't you be satisfied with
> just driving it like "everybody else"" "Why do you have to be different?"
> "I never get to spend time with you anymore, you're always out there working
> on something"
>
> --
> Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
> 78 Bronco Loving, Gary
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
> --
>
> > even SWMBO. "Why don't you get a new truck?" Let's see, I
> > figure at least
> > $600 a month payment for what I would buy, another $50 or so
> > a month on
> > insurance. Let's see, 600 times 12 comes out to 7200 plus 600
> > on insurance
> > equals $7800 per year. I could turn Henry into a #1 Concours
> > show truck for
> > that kind of cash!
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:56:18 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Re: Prolonging death 351

Wrong list Gary! :-) There is a Ford Truck list for guys like you too but
this is not the one :-) We build old trucks on this list and we keep them
running and we LOVE them too so your commnet (Below) is not appropriate for
this group :-) The newest truck legally discussed on this list is 79. I
don't think there are any "New" 79's out there anymore so.........:-)

I personally can relate to this Comment :-( I have lots of money but it
get's spent on other things because I have a family. I typically run my
trucks till they won't run and then I have a just reason to spend some money
to either, fix the old or buy new. Since I know from vast experience that
fixing the old will be cheaper even though the truck may be rougher riding,
noisier and get less economy, it's still cheaper to drive and it's all mine,
not shared with the bank and it can be "customized" to suit my taste without
scrapping some trim package or other accoutermnets which I am still paying
for in my truck payment etc..... If I choose to spend the money and time it
can also be made to run as quietly and smoothly and economically as "ANY"
new truck too :-)

Many on this list are not in my financial position where they have "choices"
so are here to learn how to best keep their vehicles running for the least
cost. This is what this list is "really" about so, again, this comment is
out of line IMNSHO :-( I can afford to buy a new truck, any kind I want but
choose to spend my money on other things. My family doesn't understand this
so I guess I don't expect others to either but that's how I see it :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Problem is: It takes serious money to rebuild old, worn equipment
> and is generally NOT worth time unless, you have some "personal"
> love of the vehicle. That's why they make NEW trucks, to replace
> the old. If one can't afford to fix-it, then buy something you don't
> have to fix! "G"
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 06:22:36 -0800
From: Tim Bowman
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Custom Badge (Was wrong Torque Specs II)

Stephen:

The Custom emblem is simply a trim designation by Ford. It does not
mean in any way the truck has been customized. The Custom in 1971 is
your more basic truck with little exterior or interior adorning. The
models step up to Sport Custom, Ranger, and Explorer, I believe, in that
year.

Keep your hands on that radio block out plate, it's probably as rare as
the AM-FM radio option.

- --
Tim Bowman
Burien, WA
tkbowman uswest.net
71 F100 Sport Custom
(360, 4 Speed, Factory AM-FM)

>snip
for the advise, my wife was more understanding than I thought she'd
be(scary):-)....... Now that I've shown how little I know about
mechanics,
I guess I'll show how little I know about Fords.
My wife was outside looking at my truck w/me and asked,"Why does it say
CUSTOM on the side of a completely STOCK truck?" to which I answered
"well....because its a Ford.":-) She just gave me a funny look and said

"Whatever"..... Does anyone else Know what Ford considers custom? Now
my
truck has pwr brakes,auto trans.,other than that it doesn't have power
anything,no chrome(except grill & the words CUSTOM) It still has the
original plastic plate on the dash where the radio is supposed to go.


Stephen B.
71 F250 Custom


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:49:42 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Custom analogies

Yes, it's custom because they have to change the assembly line to put less
stuff on it. The "High Volume" trucks have all the junk on them because
most buyers want, at least, a minimal plush package. The "Custom" line is
actually a low volume configuration so can rightly be called "Custom" :-)

We used to make positive engagement starters, 4.5" and 4" and also the 4
pole and some for AMC with a longer shaft. The 4.5" was our "High Volume"
starter and that line ran 24 hours on the same part but with different
housings for different applications. The 4" was considered the "Low Volume"
and the others were "Specials", only run occasionally. Eventually the 4"
became the "High Volume" and the 4.5" was discontinued and now the Gear type
or PM starter has replaced all of them and is now the "High Volume" starter
:-) I guess in this case you might call the "Specials" "Custom" but each
type had it's own assy line so it's not really a good analogy :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> I always thought that Custom meant that you had a base truck
> cause you were
> going to customize it later anyway and didn't want to pay for
> a bunch of
> options you were going to remove anyway. Anyone have a
> better explanation?
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 07:03:34 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon

Thanks for your message at 08:01 AM 11/16/99 -0500, Peters, Gary (G.R.).
Your message was:
>>From SWMBO's stand point You go to work to earn money then you come home and
>spend all your time working on your truck and when you spend $300 on parts
>it seems like a lot of money. They don't see the big picture and they see
>you out in the shop instead of taking them shopping or working on the trim
>in the bathroom or landscaping the yard etc.. Women don't seem to see the
>economic side of the issue and then when they do try to see it what they see
>is $300 worth of tools you only use once in 3 years and every time you work
>on it you have to buy more tools so that by the time you count tools, parts
>and time they figure you are better off to have a new truck which requires
>no maintenance. Sad to say, in some cases, they have a solid case against
>us but if you discount the time element old trucks are, by quite a margin,
>less expensive than new ones and we have the added satisfaction of making
>them suit our own concept of what a good truck should be :-) This concept
>is another one women have trouble with. "Why can't you be satisfied with
>just driving it like "everybody else"" "Why do you have to be different?"
>"I never get to spend time with you anymore, you're always out there working
>on something"

...and all this compounded with the time we spend at the computer getting
educated and exchanging information about our Ford Trucks...




>--
>Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
>78 Bronco Loving, Gary
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
>--
>
>> even SWMBO. "Why don't you get a new truck?" Let's see, I
>> figure at least
>> $600 a month payment for what I would buy, another $50 or so
>> a month on
>> insurance. Let's see, 600 times 12 comes out to 7200 plus 600
>> on insurance
>> equals $7800 per year. I could turn Henry into a #1 Concours
>> show truck for
>> that kind of cash!
>== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:19:06 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - F-E head torque & Dana offsets

> > Subject: RE: Dana axle offsets ?
> > If I were looking for a compatible mate for it I would try a Dodge first
> > or
> > large body Jeep since they use the same offset (at least the same
> > direction)
> > as ford. The punkin is offset to the driver side on Ford,
> Dodge and Jeep
> > so
> > may actually even be the same axle, not sure?
> ==================================================================
> ==========
> ========
> Are you sure about that?

Yup.

> All the Jeeps I've been "intimate with", have the
> pumpkin on the passenger side, including the old Cherokee I have now. I
> always thought Ford was the only one with it on the drivers side.....maybe
> not ?

Check the Dodge trucks, full size ... also the Jeeps it depends on the year
and model of them ... a buddy with an 85 and an 88 Grand Wagoneer has his on
the driver's side ...

Just talked with him briefly (isn't messaging great?) and he said that for
the FSJ's for sure, the Quadratrac has a pass. side diff and the others all
use the driver's side ... that's for the Cherokee and the Wagoneer (Full
Size) and the Grand Wagoneer (he's got 2 I can get pics if you need them)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 07:26:26 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Custom analogies

Thanks for your message at 09:49 AM 11/16/99 -0500, Peters, Gary (G.R.).
Your message was:
>Yes, it's custom because they have to change the assembly line to put less
>stuff on it. The "High Volume" trucks have all the junk on them because
>most buyers want, at least, a minimal plush package. The "Custom" line is
>actually a low volume configuration so can rightly be called "Custom" :-)
>
My '62 and '66 are both Custom Cabs and are the De Luxe models. That is
the genesis of model names, though. Remember the Fairlanes being the top
of the line? As new more luxurious models developed, the Fairlane
gradually (annually) slipped in prestige. Also, the consumer gets used to
(bored with) a product name and needs to be stimulated constantly into
wanting the "new" and "special." All part of the planned obsolesence
scheme of our economic system....

OK, now off the soapbox...
Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:29:32 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - "Custom" trim

> Actually Ford is not the only maker whose "Custom" trim line is the lowest
> available option equipped.


> I always thought that Custom meant that you had a base truck
> cause you were
> going to customize it later anyway and didn't want to pay for a bunch of
> options you were going to remove anyway. Anyone have a better
> explanation?
>

Hahahaha ... that's a good thought ... but digging back a ways, wasn't the
custom actually the top of the line when it first came out ? If you had the
Custom cab in the earlier years wasn't that the "fancy" one (for a truck) ?

Also the Custom was a base for the full size Ford's too ... but that's back
in '57 or whatever (not something I can remember new, but have seen it) But
it seems like a 51 or so Custom Ford would've been mid line at least, if not
higher ...

If you want a real example of how names shift from top to bottom, follow
Buick through the 50's and 60's ... heck its still going ... Century used to
be the top of the line, now its barely clinging to the bottom (or did they
finally drop it this year?)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:32:34 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon

Only at work.....at home I can't get near the computer cuz SWMBO is on it
all day :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> ...and all this compounded with the time we spend at the
> computer getting
> educated and exchanging information about our Ford Trucks...
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 07:33:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Daniel DiMartino
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon

as long as were talking about TRUCKS, look at the new ones
today, I don't even call them trucks anymore! SUV's, no way!!
no, i own a Ford F250 with a heater and a bench seat, thank you.


=====
Daniel DiMartino

1968 F-250 soon to be a 4x4
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:35:45 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - unleaded gas

> exactly how bad is unleaded gas on older engines? i heard and
> read many things about long term damage to valve seals but never
> encountered anyone who had a motor go bad due to "use of
> unleaded gas". are newer valve seals that protect and make up
> the difference in lack of lubrication worth the effort and
> cost??

Okay, lets clear up some stuff ... the problem isn't the seals themselves
(though it may damage them, they are cheap to replace) the real problem is
the valve SEATS in the head ... those are not hardened and will just get
pounded out of the head if they are not lubed with the lead or other
additive.

This is really only a problem if the motor is run hard often ... my truck
had been used for hauling steel to MO and back, when I pulled the heads,
some of the valves were sunk nearly 1/4" ... most were a good 1/8" back into
the heads ... its amazing how much better it ran after the hardened seats
were put into it ...

If you are just cruising around and keep the work load to a minimum, you
probably won't notice it ... but I'm hoping to never have to mess with mine
again, so i put the hardened seats in ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:36:56 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Split manifold for I-6 240/300?

> Did some later 300 engines have split (two-piece) exhaust
> manifolds, and if
> so, what years?
>

Check the EFI years (85+) ... from what they tell me this is an excellent
option as it frees up the exhaust flow without losing torque ... also makes
for dual exhaust and cool noises :)

Though not quite like a 50 Chubby with split manifold and glass packs :)

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:39:38 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death in my 351M...

> Yes it does.
>
> > I've heard the 400 can be made to run
> > real strong if you know the right tricks and I read somewhere
> that the 400
> > has the longest stroke of any Ford V8.


Yes and No ... it has the longest of any PUSHROD V8, but the new V10 and
5.4L V8 both have 4.16" strokes ... I think the Powerstroke Diesel takes the
cake though with a 4.18" stroke ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:47:06 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Aluminum vs. Cast Iron Intake for FE Big Block

> What are the advantages and disadvantages of aluminum vs. cast iron
> intake manifolds?

Advantages:

Lighter weight, cooler look (?!?), dissipates heat much faster, generally
higher performance (hard to find a stock aluminum manifold for these old
trucks :)

Disadvantages:

Easily stripped holes, dissipates heat faster, higher performance, prone to
warping ...

notice I have the heat both times ... if you are looking to keep things warm
in the fuel mixture, its going to be harder to do, you'll get a greater
gradient through the runners as you go from near the block to the carb ...
but it may not be enough to effect things.

Also listed twice is the higher performance, you can get too high and kill
your motor so it only runs at 5000+ rpm's, not good for a street motor, but
if you pay attention when you're buying it, you likely won't have that
problem.

The holes are easier to strip, so the FE's that have valve cover bolts in
there will have these stripped sometimes, you can probably heli-coil it, but
that costs money so it can be deducted if you are buying the manifold used
...


>I've heard that aluminum heads on an iron block may have
> difficulty maintaining a seal because of the different expansion
> rates.

Yup, they make some cool new gaskets to help with this ...

> sounds logical to me, but wouldn't an aluminum intake combined with cast
> iron block & heads also have similar difficulty maintaining a seal?

Yes. but there isn't as much heat or torque on things here ... remember
you've got the head bolts holding tightly to keep the head from flying off
the block, the intake manifold isn't bolted nearly as tightly (what 1/2 the
torque at most ?)... generally this hasn't been much of a problem, though it
has happened I'm sure.

> Don't
> aluminum blocks have steel sleeves?

Yup ... think how fast an aluminum sleeve would wear ...


> What about the type of
> antifreeze used?
>

Your machine shop can make a recommendation, I know CJ's builder had him put
some stuff in his motor ... to prevent the corrosion, but he had aluminum
heads too...

> :: insert more questions here :: ????

Okay ... what application are we talking about ? 351M,W,C? FE ???


Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:47:41 -0600
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Aluminum vs. Cast Iron Intake for FE Big Block

Doh, just looked at the subject as I sent my last message out ... its for an
FE...

What manifold are you looking at then ?

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 5spd 4.6L
73ish 1/2ton 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 07:50:55 PST
From: "James Stepke"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Selling My truck!!

Would anyone be interested in buying my truck??
Here are the details and i am located in northern michigan:
1979 FORD f150
4x4
400M V8
141,000 miles
AC
Dual Tanks
Long Bed
Special Indy 500 Edition!!
4.11 Gears
Limited Slip Rear
C6 Tranny
Very NIce Shape, would looke better with a paint job!!
Intermintent Wipers
Runs good, has an exhaust manifold leak!!
I will post pictures soon!

Will take Best Offer!!

Thanks
James

______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:08:26 PST
From: "James Stepke"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Selling My truck!!

I forgot, It also has a Gear Vendors OD!!

Thanks
James

Would anyone be interested in buying my truck??
Here are the details and i am located in northern michigan:
1979 FORD f150
4x4
400M V8
141,000 miles
AC
Dual Tanks
Long Bed
Special Indy 500 Edition!!
4.11 Gears
Limited Slip Rear
C6 Tranny
Very NIce Shape, would looke better with a paint job!!
Intermintent Wipers
Runs good, has an exhaust manifold leak!!
I will post pictures soon!

Will take Best Offer!!

Thanks
James

______________________________________________________
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______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:28:06 -0800
From: "Jerry Godsey"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings

Took me a couple of seconds to figure that one out, Gary. I'm only forty,
so those days of having to have an implement to open bottles is kind of
fuzzy in my mind.... LOL
Blessings,
Jerry Godsey
- -----Original Message-----
From: Peters, Gary (G.R.)
To: '61-79-list ford-trucks.com'
Date: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 3:53 AM
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings


>I generally use the same church key for everything.....why do you need more
>than one? :-) I have spares but they all do the same job :-) Course now
>with screw off caps they aren't really needed very often :-)
>
>--
>Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
>78 Bronco Loving, Gary
>http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
>--
>
>> church van) house keys, etc. Then I have one big ring for
>> all of my church
>> keys.
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>

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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:32:39 -0800
From: "Jerry Godsey"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon

Okay, I'm lost. What is SWMBO?
Jerry (Confused in cyberland) Godsey

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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:34:17 -0500
From: kpayne ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon

Daniel DiMartino wrote:
>
> as long as were talking about TRUCKS, look at the new ones
> today, I don't even call them trucks anymore! SUV's, no way!!
> no, i own a Ford F250 with a heater and a bench seat, thank you.
>

I'd have to disagree. The Supy Dutys are the best thing
Ford's made in a long time.

Ken Payne
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:43:08 -0500
From: "Don Haring, Jr."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Split manifold I-6 240/300?

>According to Tony M, the late '80s and early '90s 300 I6s had split
>exhaust manifolds. He uses them on his trucks as he doesn't want
>headers either (I can't blame him, I finally got mine to seal last
>week). They will be better than that cheesy stock manifold that is
>obviously too restrictive in terms of exhaust flow. You will need a
>blocking plate for the intake manifold as the intake and exhaust were
>designed to be mated together. One other option would be to get an
>Offenhauser 1bbl intake (Clifford does not make 1bbl intakes). These
>will also improve air flow through the intake over the stock intake,
>but still not be as radical as the 4bbl intake I did. I can tell you
>that with my 4bbl carb (500cfm), I am getting better mileage than when
>I had the stock 1bbl carb setup. This may be partly due to 1) better
>exhaust flow through the headers, 2) higher compression over the worn
>out stock engine, 3) tighter upper end (valves not leaky, etc.), or 4)
>less fuel through smaller primaries unless i step on it. The truck
>does seem to be much more powerful than before, and definitely does
>run better. Good luck on your project and if you have any questions,
>please don't hesitate to contact me. Thanks!!


HI Dave,

Thanks for the advice. I was able to find my old Clifford catalog last
night, and I saw that their intake manifold doesn't work with the stock
exhaust manifold and must use headers. I gather you have a similar set-up
from your note.

I looked again at my PAW catalog and it looks like the Offy intake could be
used with the stock exhaust manifold. That would allow me to use the stock
or maybe the split one and not go to headers. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind
having the set-up you have, but that's more money in the end, and I'm on a
fairly tight budget ... although if I 'm going to go through the effort, I
want something cool for my money.

The PAW catalog does not list a 1-bbi intake manifold. Do you know who
sells it?

There are two Offy mainfolds shown (both are 4-bbl) for the 240/300. One is
a dual plane for low-end torque ($190). The "Series C" is a mid-range
manifold ($170). I assume I would want the dual plane for city driving. I
haven't decided whether keep the stock 1-bbl manifold or go with a new
manifold, and use either a 2-bbl or 4-bbl carb. You said it, and everyone
else says that you actually get better gas mileage with a 2 or 4-bbl carb,
so I figure since this is a daily driver, I'll probably go with something
more drivable and powerful. Figuring out the right combination is what I'm
still working on.

So many decisions! It's fun to plan things like this, especially before
money starts flying out of your pockets. :)

Thanks,
don

- --
Don in Philadelphia
Internet Director, Keystone Chapter FCA | 66 Falcon Deluxe Club Wagon
Falconaut: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://fedora.net/falconaut | 61 Falcon Futura
Keystone: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://fedora.net/falconkey | classic scooters and bicycles


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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:49:33 -0800
From: "Hogan, Tom"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon

She Who Must Be Obeyed. Wife, girlfriend, significant other, life partner,
etc.

Tom H

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Godsey [mailto:godzilla lightspeed.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:33 AM
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon


Okay, I'm lost. What is SWMBO?
Jerry (Confused in cyberland) Godsey

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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:53:46 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Rare parts, radio?

Which reminds me, I have an am/fm radio from a 78 lincoln I will be throwing
away. Don't know if it works or not but it's all there. It worked in the
car but the antenna was busted so don't know how good it is.......shipping
may be a problem and don't know when I might get it boxed up but it's there,
for now.......:-) Maybe some time this week I'll see if it works and let
you know. If I need a radio I will buy a new one, I'm not interested in 100
points, pure stock :-) My next one will be a CD anyway.....this one is just
a radio.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Keep your hands on that radio block out plate, it's probably
> as rare as
> the AM-FM radio option.
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 12:06:12 -0500
From: "Gary L. Perry"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Old vs. New

Sorry! gang, thought I'ld get something started as humor,
but must have been in BAD mood at time I wrote posting.
I've had/have lots of "old" trucks, mostly Ford, and have
had mood swings when you just wanna call junkman to
haul-away what you've got after spending $$$$ and too
much time on and Then not have it work.
I work for the General and always get ribbed for driving
my old Fords. They "buy new" to not have any problems.
Maybe their preaching "got" to me. I promise not to send
any more nasty posts, and ask for Forgiveness.
"G"
P.S. I love the 70's Fords, best models ever built.

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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:05:03 -0600
From: Larry Schmiedekamp
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - unleaded gas

Daniel

I think its the valve seats that gets damaged. The unleaded gas burns hotter.
Causing the valve seats to burn and thus loseing compession. When I build and
older engine I always have the machine shop
install a harder seat into the exhaust valves.

Problem elimitated..

Larry



At 04:20 AM 11/16/99 -0800, you wrote:
>exactly how bad is unleaded gas on older engines? i heard and
>read many things about long term damage to valve seals but never
>encountered anyone who had a motor go bad due to "use of
>unleaded gas". are newer valve seals that protect and make up
>the difference in lack of lubrication worth the effort and
>cost?? i don't feel adding a gas substitute everytime i fuel up
>is something i want to do, plus it's expensive, unless i could
>have it added automaticly like some 2 stroke engines do. anyone
>ever seen this or know if a mixing unit is avalible in such an
>application? i'm lazy and haven't really researched it.
>
>
>=====
>Daniel DiMartino
>
>1968 F-250 soon to be a 4x4
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
> >== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html
>
>

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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 12:35:57 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Old vs. New

Glad you stuck that "'s" on there buddy.....:-) It was humorous but.....I
get picked on a lot over this issue so it struck a chord you may not have
planned on.....:-) I'll fight to the death for my right to keep junk around
my place.....even if I have to keep it in a barn now due to neighbors moving
in all around me :-) I hate to admit it but now that my junk is all on
shelves and my floor is clear I actually like the look of it :-) I used to
call it my "Treasure Pile" which title was given it by SWMBO in a fit one
day. Haven't give up one piece of that pile either, it's all on shelves now
:-) There is one spot in my new work shop you have to wear a hat though
because the oil in one of the diffs is leaking through the ceiling
boards......:-) Got to clean that up one day......some day.....before it
rots out my new 3/4" OSB and 2x8 joists :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> P.S. I love the 70's Fords, best models ever built.
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:42:22 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Rare parts, radio?

Thanks for your message at 11:53 AM 11/16/99 -0500, Peters, Gary (G.R.).
Your message was:
>Which reminds me, I have an am/fm radio from a 78 lincoln I will be throwing
>away.
Before you throw anything away, check out

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=dlpearson

Scroll down to the car radios. These have been gathering dust in my garage
for years. A couple years ago I couldn't give them away at a yard sale I
had...

One man's junk...



Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:44:47 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Old vs. New

Thanks for your message at 12:06 PM 11/16/99 -0500, Gary L. Perry. Your
message was:
> I promise not to send
>any more nasty posts, and ask for Forgiveness.
> "G"
>P.S. I love the 70's Fords, best models ever built.

...and you were doing so well up until the end...You must have asbestos
skin...The 70's?


Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:44:44 -0600
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - keyrings

>>Hey Lisa
dont feel bad right now i have about 26 keys on my key ring and the scary
part *is* each one i have a use for! now tell me thats not confusing enough
espicialy when your trying to find the ignition key.

Travis and Lisa and everyone else,

The number of keys on your key ring detrmines the weight of your key ring
which determines the stress you place on your ignition switch. It is not
very pleasant to have the ignition swith break off in your hand. BTDT. Also
all of that mass hanging in the breeze will make a nice round semicircular
scratch on the lower dash panel. The set of keys I regularly use with each
vehicle has no more than 5 keys on it. My keys are split into five keyrings
two of which separate so there are really seven rings. There are 3 vehicles,
the house, work (1 of which is a master that fits 98% of the building doors
and that ring still has about 15 on it. We even have keyed light switches!),
and an extra set of odds and ends duplicates that include a spare vehicle
door key. I never get locked out of my own vehicle anymore. There is a spare
gas cap key in each glovebox. If I take off a single key, that's the one I
need. I don't carry all of my keys all of the time, my pants wouldn't stay
up! I tried to count up my keys and stopped at 60.

I am looking for a set of Ford logo leather key sheathes that were popular
in the 50's. They have a little double headed screw that holds the keys in,
then the keys fold out like knife blades. Gary and Azie know what I mean. I
had several years ago but didn't realize their value and wore them out. One
was from the first Ford dealer in Killeen. Hindsight....

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:51:04 -0600
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon

Steve said: >>You see, as tall as I am, I don't fit into too many "mini"
trucks, and I *LIKE* big old trucks.

At 6'2" and 218, I fully understand.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:00:41 -0500
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Re: Split manifold I-6 240/300?

BOY! THE FUN STUFF I MISS WHEN I DON'T HAVE A RELIABLE E-MAIL!!!!!

8-)

At 11:43 AM 11/16/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>According to Tony M, the late '80s and early '90s 300 I6s had split
>>exhaust manifolds.

Yup-- 87+ when they started fuel injection.

>>I am getting better mileage than when
>>I had the stock 1bbl carb setup. This may be partly due to 1) better
>>exhaust flow through the headers, 2) higher compression over the worn
>>out stock engine, 3) tighter upper end (valves not leaky, etc.), or 4)
>>less fuel through smaller primaries unless i step on it.

I would like to throw in a ridiculous figure-- I drove down to Marietta
Ohio to deliver a compter to Stu's pop, and it was a 2 hour drive for me...
Since I put my 300 4V into my '76 F-250, with 4:10 gears, NP435 tranny, and
new 33 inch BFG mudders, I would just like to say that much to my
amazement, I got 17 miles per gallon chuckin' 60 mph (approx 2600, 2700
rpm) the whole way!

>I looked again at my PAW catalog and it looks like the Offy intake could be
>used with the stock exhaust manifold. That would allow me to use the stock
>or maybe the split one and not go to headers. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind
>having the set-up you have, but that's more money in the end, and I'm on a
>fairly tight budget ... although if I 'm going to go through the effort, I
>want something cool for my money.

Personally, if you are on a tight budget, get the intake manifold you can
use with your stock exhaust manifold, and run it that way, because once you
go to split manifolds, you'll pay out the BEGEESUS for a decent custom
exhaust system, and if you run hedders, tuning, and sealing become major
headaches in a hurry. But that's just my opinion, and hey, what do I
know?! 8-)

If you can get away with running that better intake for a while, and then
later on when you have more money to spend, poppin' the dual manifolds on
it, that'll be a better thing to do, or I would just wait and do it all at
once, that way you feel the difference immedately, rather than in smaller
increments with each improvement.. 8-)

>and use either a 2-bbl or 4-bbl carb. You said it, and everyone
>else says that you actually get better gas mileage with a 2 or 4-bbl carb,
>so I figure since this is a daily driver, I'll probably go with something
>more drivable and powerful. Figuring out the right combination is what I'm
>still working on.

I'm gonna get flamed for this I'm sure, but this is what I tried-- I tried
Holley 390 Cfm 4 barrel, and it was nothing but crap right out of the box,
then I tried a Carter 600 (which I currently run) and once I got the
accelerator pump hooked up right, it runs just great-- but wanting to put
the carter on another motor, I put an Autolite 2100 on and found out it was
worse than the Holley! The smaller 4 barrels just seem to meter much
better because you aren't using them all at once like you are with the 2
barrels, and slightly off idle, that was my big problem-- I coudln't
restrict gas enough at lower Rpm's and then get enough at mid-upper, and
the setup of the carter made that configuration work beutifully. IMHO.

>So many decisions! It's fun to plan things like this, especially before
>money starts flying out of your pockets. :)

Yeah, just print that statement out and stick it somewhere over your
toolbox while you are cussing yourself for diving head first into doing
it.. (smile) but that's what makes it all fun!

Tony
tony greenman-systems.com

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:29:42 -0800
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Starters, 400 = 460?

Gary wrote:
>All the large V-8's have the same bolt pattern for the starter and the same
>drive so they all interchange but I suggest you use the type with the
>selenoid mounted on the starter for the 460 since it was designed for that
>application and has more torque than the "standard" positive engagement
>starter. Here at the plant we call them three pole and four pole because
>the better one has all four poles solidly bolted to the frame where the
>positive engagement 3 pole has a moveable pole which reduces the torque
>output due to larger clearances etc.. Otherwise they are the same starter
>in every way.

Gary, I think I'm lost on this "3-pole"/"4-pole" deal...
Are we talking about the field coils?
All of the DC stater motors I'm familiar with have these field coils
or "poles" in multiples of two. 2-pole, 4-pole, etc..
I've never seen one with 3 poles, and can't imagine why such a thing
would exist in a DC motor.
I also am not sure what's up with the "movable pole" thing?
Is one of the poles not stationary? Why? What moves it and when?
I've been inside quite a few Ford (and other) starters, and I must
confess that I don't think I've ever seen a "3-pole" starter, nor
one with a "movable" pole.
Can you explain for me a bit more about the construction of these
starters? Do you have an exploded drawing of one you could send me?

I think I'm confused... help me out please!

Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 14:27:07 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Clutched Automatics

Tom writes: >>I remember reading some silliness in a hot rodding mag about
someone using a
clutch in an automatic. Always passed it off as a typo.

Naw. MOP*R did it back in the 60's to their famous 727. Only had to use the
clutch when stopping or stopped and to initially take off. The rest was
automatic. Don't remember how it worked out, but they ran them in Drag races
for at least a couple of seasons if not more. Must not have panned out too
good, cause it never went into production.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 14:50:00 -0500
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Sizing of building

Gary writes: >>BTW, if anyone is thinking about building a work shop/storage
building.........calculate what you think you need, double it, then multiply
by something to the power of..........

I second that. Mine is 40'X60' and much too small.

Azie
Ardmore Al.


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 15:21:20 -0500
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Starters, 400 = 460?

They actually both have 4 poles. The lever contains the pole which is
pulled in by the field windings like a selenoid. The pole pulls the lever
end which is attached to the drive and this pushes the drive out into the
flywheel at the same time the contacts in the starter energize the starter
motor. 3 of the poles are bolted to the frame the fourth is attached to the
drive lever under the dust cover. Because it is moveable it will never
generate the same torque as a solid pole so the selenoid version is
stronger.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> All of the DC stater motors I'm familiar with have these field coils
> or "poles" in multiples of two. 2-pole, 4-pole, etc..
> I've never seen one with 3 poles, and can't imagine why such a thing....


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