From: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com (61-79-list-digest)
To: 61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: 61-79-list-digest V3 #418
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61-79-list-digest Tuesday, November 16 1999 Volume 03 : Number 418



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - 1965 F-250 Gearing
FTE 61-79 - After Market body parts
FTE 61-79 - wrong torque specs(II)
FTE 61-79 - 72 fe motor losing oil...
FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon
Re: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon
FTE 61-79 - Re:hop up 170
FTE 61-79 - Re:FE for sale
FTE 61-79 - F-E head torque & Dana offsets
FTE 61-79 - RE: Oil eating F-E's ?
FTE 61-79 - Starters, 400 = 460?
FTE 61-79 - Keyrings
FTE 61-79 - Aluminum vs. Cast Iron Intake for FE Big Block
Re: FTE 61-79 - 1965 F-250 Gearing
FTE 61-79 - alternator wiring
Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings
RE: FTE 61-79 - Modified or Midland
Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings
FTE 61-79 - Boo-Boo's
FTE 61-79 - 390 Stuff
Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings
FTE 61-79 - Clutch Z-bar crosses
RE: FTE 61-79 - Boo-Boo's
Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings
Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings
Re: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon
Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings
FTE 61-79 - Split manifold for I-6 240/300?
FTE 61-79 - Windsor designations ?

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 07:03:46 EST
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 1965 F-250 Gearing

In a message dated 11/14/99 11:12:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
AndyMFJ684 aol.com writes:

> I have a 65 ford 250 with a 352 it has very low gears in the 4 speed trans
> and the rear is there some way I could adjust the trans to have better
> pickup and speed

You will not be able to "adjust" the trans but I bet you have a "low" set
of gears in the rear-end. My 66 has a 4:56. Fortunately, (for me) I don't
like to hot rod it around. The rear gears are something you can change.
Check the door tag and/or axle for a code. Someone will be able to help you
from there.

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (HELP!---I need 15 x5 factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 07:38:01 -0600
From: "Lorin Missall"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - After Market body parts

I am looking for doors for my 76 F100. Was wondering if anyone had any =
experience with aftermarket doors from JCWhitney. I haven't start digging =
though junk yards yet, but was curious if anyone had any info. Thanks

Billy

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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 06:10:52 PST
From: "Stephen Brown"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - wrong torque specs(II)

Thanks,
for the advise, my wife was more understanding than I thought she'd
be(scary):-)....... Now that I've shown how little I know about mechanics,
I guess I'll show how little I know about Fords.
My wife was outside looking at my truck w/me and asked,"Why does it say
CUSTOM on the side of a completely STOCK truck?" to which I answered
"well....because its a Ford.":-) She just gave me a funny look and said
"Whatever"..... Does anyone else Know what Ford considers custom? Now my
truck has pwr brakes,auto trans.,other than that it doesn't have power
anything,no chrome(except grill & the words CUSTOM) It still has the
original plastic plate on the dash where the radio is supposed to go.


Stephen B.
71 F250 Custom

______________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 08:25:23 -0600
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 72 fe motor losing oil...

>>My truck is suddenly eating (losing) oil!

My truck suddenly (really!) started using oil. I don't think it's thru
the rings/valves; as the spark plugs are fine.

For FE engines; is there a common thing that causes rapid oil
lose?

Josh,

On any engine that starts losig oil like you described, I would look for the
oil pressure sending unit first. They tend to crack and leak profusely
without warning. If you have lights instead of guages, you would never know
the difference until the knocking began.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 08:38:11 -0600
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon

>> So you are of the opinion that new trucks are cheaper to own than
old trucks? Have you ever priced out the cost of replacing an emissions
part on an old truck?? Or a TPS on an "old" truck?? How about a MAS
on an "old" truck?? Maybe you should be spouting your advice on the
"New" truck list.

Let me explain it to you in short words you'll hopefully understand,
this list is about loving and keeping old trucks running. We (as in the
royal We) are here to give advice and moral support on the weakness
"We" have for old trucks. I used to drive a modern truck, aside from a
lack of torque and fuel economy, it was made of less than adequate
stuff.

Preach on, Brother Steve!! I get the same ##!% from people all of the time,
even SWMBO. "Why don't you get a new truck?" Let's see, I figure at least
$600 a month payment for what I would buy, another $50 or so a month on
insurance. Let's see, 600 times 12 comes out to 7200 plus 600 on insurance
equals $7800 per year. I could turn Henry into a #1 Concours show truck for
that kind of cash!

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 10:00:13 -0500
From: Ted Wnorowski
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon

At 08:38 AM 11/15/99 -0600, you wrote:



>Let's see, 600 times 12 comes out to 7200 plus 600 on insurance
>equals $7800 per year. I could turn Henry into a #1 Concours show truck for
>that kind of cash!

AMEN!!!!!!
Say it again brother!!!!!!!!!!

Ted Wnorowski
Bellevue,OH
' 64 F-250
352 transplant
4 speed



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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 11:18:09 EST
From: DWeaver232 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re:hop up 170

Unless you want to keep it totally stock you would probably be better off
putting in a 250 out of a 69/70 era passenger car. Almost 50% increase in
displacement. Rebuilding a lager engine will always give you more bang for
the buck.

Terry Weaver
78 F350 (the beast)
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 11:24:21 EST
From: DWeaver232 aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re:FE for sale

For those of you in the Denver area, the local pick in save has a 66 Galaxie
with a 4-barrel FE engine in it as of Sunday. Looks like most of it is there
except for the carb.(didn't spend a lot looking at it as I'm into 460's) Cost
would be about $130 for thelong block. Fairly easy to pull at this yard as
all the car's are up on stands and they have rolling aframes to pull engines
with.

Terry Weaver
Thanks for the list have learned alot
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 12:21:23 -0500
From: pdesanto Cinergy.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - F-E head torque & Dana offsets

> From: "Stephen Brown"
> Subject: wrong torque specs ?
> Hey everybody, I just replaced the head gaskets in my 352, I got them all
> tourqed
> down, when I realized that I was reading the specs for a 460!
> The tourqe for the 352 is supposed to be 85-90lbs and the 460 is
> 130-140lbs!
============================================================================
=====
Steve, just to be safe, I'd take those bolts out and check em. That's a lot
of over torque and you may have stretched some of the bolts. Better to check
now than have problems later on due to improper head clamping. Phil
>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++
> Subject: RE: Dana axle offsets ?
> If I were looking for a compatible mate for it I would try a Dodge first
> or
> large body Jeep since they use the same offset (at least the same
> direction)
> as ford. The punkin is offset to the driver side on Ford, Dodge and Jeep
> so
> may actually even be the same axle, not sure?
============================================================================
========
Are you sure about that? All the Jeeps I've been "intimate with", have the
pumpkin on the passenger side, including the old Cherokee I have now. I
always thought Ford was the only one with it on the drivers side.....maybe
not ? Later, Phil


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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 12:35:07 -0500
From: pdesanto Cinergy.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Oil eating F-E's ?

> From: Josh Assing
> My truck suddenly (really!) started using oil. I don't think it's thru
> the rings / valves; as the spark plugs are fine.
> For FE engines; is there a common thing that causes rapid oil loss?
============================================================================
Josh, something else to check if you have no major leaks is the oil return
holes in the head. They let oil return to the pan after running off the
valvetrain. If they get plugged up with gunk and debri, oil builds up in the
valve cover until it gets up to the valve stems. After that, engine vacuum
will suck it into the engine and burn it. (even with good valve seals) They
can burn a BUNCH of oil this way, but usually smoke pretty bad. Over the
years, I've seen this happen often on F-E's, Windsors and "lesser" engines
from the General, so check it out too. Good luck, Phil



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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:48:28 -0500
From: "Brent Cole"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Starters, 400 = 460?

From: Brent Cole FEDERAL-MOGUL on 11/15/99 01:48 PM


To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
cc:
Subject: Starters, 400 = 460?

I am (I think) ready to start my transplanted 460 in my 79 F250 and was
wondering if the starter from the orgional 400 will work on the 460. I know
many of you have done this swap, so this ought to be an easy one. Thanks for
the information.

Brent






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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:22:24 +0100
From: "Bill Brox"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings

Hi all.

Do you have keyrings for every car over there,,, I mean a keyring that says
F-100, or F-250, also one for Galaxie, or Aerostar or whatever..... over
here I can only find Ford,,, not telling what kind of Ford it is ?

Just wondering.....

Bill




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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:19:07 -0700
From: "Danger"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Aluminum vs. Cast Iron Intake for FE Big Block

What are the advantages and disadvantages of aluminum vs. cast iron
intake manifolds? I've heard that aluminum heads on an iron block may have
difficulty maintaining a seal because of the different expansion rates. This
sounds logical to me, but wouldn't an aluminum intake combined with cast
iron block & heads also have similar difficulty maintaining a seal? Don't
aluminum blocks have steel sleeves? What about the type of antifreeze used?

:: insert more questions here :: ????

TIA
Danger
danger csolutions.net
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.csolutions.net/myth/


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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:37:33 EST
From: TWL1911 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 1965 F-250 Gearing

Hey
On your 65 i would leave it stock, because when you get to messing with gear
ratios it takes alot of time and money, i would leave it that gear because
as of now you are gonna have a really fast accelerating truck i would sugest
to bounce the motor up before messing with gearing. and all those 352s need
is a cam, aluminum intake and a 4bbl carb to have a really good engine.
travis
66 f 250
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:14:18 -0600
From: "don"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - alternator wiring

Wonder if anyone can help me with the wiring on a alternator. 79 Ford
truck.
Guy before me cut wires all up so I have no idea where all wires go. My
harness has two plugs on it. One plug has two prongs and supplies the hot
wire (to solenoid I believe) I do not believe the other plug is used, it has
4 prongs on it.
Then, I know the ground wire is on that has screw on the alternator, but
where do the black and red plug go. I hate to burn up a new alternator.....
donb midtnn.net

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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:41:22 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings

Thanks for your message at 08:22 PM 11/15/99 +0100, Bill Brox. Your message
was:
>Hi all.
>
>Do you have keyrings for every car over there,,, I mean a keyring that says
>F-100, or F-250, also one for Galaxie, or Aerostar or whatever..... over
>here I can only find Ford,,, not telling what kind of Ford it is ?
>

Bill,

We are Land of the Consumers. If I may quote Arlo Guthrie--"You can get
anything you want..."
Exactly what are you looking for?

I'm sure one of us could find it for you....Right, gang?


Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:50:00 -0700
From: "Dave Resch"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Modified or Midland

>From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
>Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Modified or Midland
>
>But, as long as we are on this, the 400 flywheel is
>drilled for a different clutch than the 351 so
>beware if you try to replace your clutch that there
>are two clutches for this engine and the bolt
>patterns are different.

Yo Gary, et al:

I have seen references to this, but last time I looked up a flywheel through a
dealer, Ford listed the same part number for both 351M and 400. Maybe both
pressure plates use the same holes or the flywheel is set up for both clutches?
I don't know. (I can assure you that the 351W clutch will not fit on an M-block
flywheel, after involuntarily testing that theory for Summit Racing a couple
years ago.)

>Since the 400 was already in production they could use
>the same tooling to make the 351 by simply changing
>the crank and pistons and apparently they had more
>production capacity on that line than the windsor line
>so the 400 was "modified" and made in the "Midland"
>plant and the blocks were cast in the "Michigan Casting
>Plant" so to keep it separate from the "Windsor" and the
>"Cleveland" they called it the "M".

Your chronology of the 335 family development is correct, but I am not familiar
w/ the "Midland" Ford plant. Every M-block I've ever seen was cast at either
the Michigan Casting Center (MCC) or the Cleveland Foundry (CF). Both blocks
and heads were cast at both plants, as well as intake and exhaust manifolds.

I also subscribe to the theory that there is no "official" name associated w/
the "M" designation, as I have never seen it in an official Ford document and
the author of my favorite M-block book (Tom Monroe) says so. Obviously, the
"modified" name has a pretty big popular following, though.

Dave R (M-block devotee)


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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 19:07:07 EST
From: Bad4dFilly aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings

Well I guess I'm a true blonde......my house key has one of thos plastic
covers on it in the shape of a house......y'know, just incase I forget! LOL
Now all I need is a Ford truck cover for my truck key!!!!

*~*~Lisa and Envy~*~*
*~*~SIlly boys...trucks are for GIRLS~*~*
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 17:16:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Ballinger
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Boo-Boo's

>I put a nice 460 together only to discover that the
>timing cover had a
>bad
>spot in it and coolant came out in a nice thin stream
>about 6' in the
>air
>when it warmed up during the cam breakin. Replaceing
>a timing cover
>always
>means eventual leaks because you never get the front
>seal quite as good
>as
>on a stand and you have to glue part of the pan
gasket >back together
>etc..
>Heart breaking but it had to be fixed :-(

It reminds me of time I was putting a 351W together
and had the remains of two vintages laying around.
Put it together and went to mount the water pump and
realized much to my dismay that I had just put the
reverse rotation serpentine belt front cover on when I
needed the standard rotation v-belt cover. Anyone
who's done a Windsor (or like Gary, a 460) cover twice
knows how much fun the front pan seal is to get back
in right.

DOH!


=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 17:29:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Ballinger
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 390 Stuff

Does anyone know who makes a rear sump oil-pump pickup
for the 4X4 FE? I looked in the Melling book and
can't seem to find it. The counterman at Ford says he
can't find one in their book either, but my friend who
usually comes through is on vacation. Just needing a
source.

The 390 is at the machine shop. And I'm getting
anxious to get it back together. I still need to find
the adjustable rockers and cup-style pushrods for it
without getting robbed. I wish I could find a set of
the Sealed Power shaft and rocker assemblies all
together new (or even slightly used) and priced right.
The rockers alone are about $200 according to the
counterman. He didn't have a price on the assemblies
or pushrods. I'm using the CompCams 270S-10
224d .050 and .518 lift, so I have to have the
adjustable rockers. (I'd want them for the hydraulics
too really)


=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 20:36:34 EST
From: TWL1911 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings

Hey Lisa
dont feel bad right now i have about 26 keys on my key ring and the scary
part *is* each one i have a use for! now tell me thats not confusing enough
espicialy when your trying to find the ignition key.
Travis
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 19:45:57 -0600
From: Brett L Habben
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Clutch Z-bar crosses

Folks,
Anybody know what range of years/applications of clutch Z-bars/bellcranks
will work in my '75 F100 w/300? I'm scrounging all the parts to convert
from an automatic to a standard. I've got the underdash pedal and
linkage down through the floor, the frame ball stud bracket, and engine
ball stud. Is this a 73-79 only item, or will 67-72's also work? How
about FE's also, or is this a small block/six only item?
Thanks for any info,
Brett
Super75cab
___________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 21:05:27 -0500
From: Marvin Meyer
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Boo-Boo's

Bill;
You're not the only one, same has happened to me. The 429/460's are
notorious for passage corrosion I glass bead mine upon visual inspection.
Hope you have a spare around.
Marvin
meyer strat.net


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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 18:45:34 -0800
From: "Jerry Godsey"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings

I have two rings, one for my car keys (Aerostar van, 88 F-150, E-100, Dodge
church van) house keys, etc. Then I have one big ring for all of my church
keys. You should see it! If I leave it in my suit pockets for too long it
puts holes in 'em!
maybe some day the church'll get rich and we'll change over to a credit card
or eyeball recognition!
Blessings,
Jerry Godsey
- -----Original Message-----
From: TWL1911 aol.com
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings


>Hey Lisa
>dont feel bad right now i have about 26 keys on my key ring and the scary
>part *is* each one i have a use for! now tell me thats not confusing enough
>espicialy when your trying to find the ignition key.
>Travis
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>

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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 19:01:12 -0800
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings

Thanks for your message at 06:45 PM 11/15/99 -0800, Jerry Godsey. Your
message was:
>maybe some day the church'll get rich and we'll change over to a credit card
>or eyeball recognition!

....or mark-across-the-forehead-recognition. That must be how my trucks
recognize me. I can tell by the facial (grill and headlights) expression
they know it's I coming to drive. I'm waiting for that Cleveland to fire
up before I even get in...That might even spook me...


Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 19:15:54 -0800 (PST)
From: canzus seanet.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Prolonging death 351/Steve's sermon

At 08:38 AM 15:11:99 -0600, John LaGrone wrote:

> Let me explain it to you in short words you'll hopefully understand,
>this list is about loving and keeping old trucks running. We (as in the
>royal We) are here to give advice and moral support on the weakness
>"We" have for old trucks. I used to drive a modern truck, aside from a
>lack of torque and fuel economy, it was made of less than adequate
>stuff.
>
>Preach on, Brother Steve!! I get the same ##!% from people all of the time,
>even SWMBO. "Why don't you get a new truck?"

Thanks John, the support is appreciated, you are correct in
saying the costs of owning a new truck far exceed the cost
of a fine old Ford. With a base price in the high teens, and
options reaching 30K, thats a h*ll of a lot of parts and paint.
You see, as tall as I am, I don't fit into too many "mini" trucks,
and I *LIKE* big old trucks. I hope the lister didn't take offence
to what I said, But I did wait about 5 calm-down hours before I
replied to his post.

Just to make this a "legal" FTE post, The "cracked manifold" I was
told the '68 390 had turned out to be Mechanics Error. He used new
bolts on the exhaust manifolds. They're about 2" long, and bottomed
out in the holes. So a new set of gaskets are in order, as they're
burned beyond recognition. This alledged mechanic (moron) didn't use
any anti-sieze either.
I went and talked to my buddy who works at the same shop, There on
an engine stand is an Honest To God '66 HiPo 289, I say "Wow, a HiPo289"
one of the mechs says "Yeah, it's for a Mustang". I start to snicker and say
"NKay" Brad (my Bud) laughs and says " He's forgotten more about these
than you'll ever know." Then starts talking about the '57.....


Steve & the Rockette
68 F100, 390cid, FMX
63 F100, 292cid, 3speed
72 Capri 2000, hers
73 Capri 2600,tube frame going in.....
73 MGB GT, Our Toy
94 SHO, SWMBO's
97 Contour, Mine

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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 19:15:56 -0800 (PST)
From: canzus seanet.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Keyrings

At 03:41 PM 15:11:99 -0800, Dennis Pearson wrote:

>We are Land of the Consumers. If I may quote Arlo Guthrie--"You can get
>anything you want..."

The ultimate Turkey Day tune, "Alices Resturaunt Massacre".
Brings back memories of football overload, and a bad movie....

Steve & the Rockette
68 F100, 390cid, FMX
63 F100, 292cid, 3speed
72 Capri 2000, hers
73 Capri 2600,tube frame going in.....
73 MGB GT, Our Toy
94 SHO, SWMBO's
97 Contour, Mine

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 01:07:09 -0500
From: "Don Haring, Jr."
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Split manifold for I-6 240/300?

Did some later 300 engines have split (two-piece) exhaust manifolds, and if
so, what years? I don't want to use headers on my 240, but I would consider
these manifolds if they are available at my local junkyards, and if they
offer any advantages. Is a dual exhaust system beneficial on a straight
six?

I will be rebuilding the 240 in the springtime and I want to consider some
different options before making any decisions. I'm looking for some mild
improvements, but am mostly concerned with having a reliable engine for
city use.

Thanks,
don

- --
Don in Philadelphia
Internet Director, Keystone Chapter FCA | 66 Falcon Deluxe Club Wagon
Falconaut: http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://fedora.net/falconaut | 61 Falcon Futura....


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