From: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com (61-79-list-digest)
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Subject: 61-79-list-digest V3 #365
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61-79-list-digest Friday, October 8 1999 Volume 03 : Number 365



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

FTE 61-79 - Leaking Water
Re: FTE 61-79 - standard cab/ supercab swap?
RE: FTE 61-79 - Internally or externally balanced 460?
FTE 61-79 - I-6 Website
FTE 61-79 - Re: Knock Detectors
[none]
FTE 61-79 - 1976 F150 for sale
Re: FTE 61-79 - I-6 Website
Re: FTE 61-79 - I-6 Website
Re: FTE 61-79 - starts - dies
Re: FTE 61-79 - Stainless & Chrome
Re: FTE 61-79 - Unibody ?
Re: FTE 61-79 - NO OIL PRESURE!
Re: FTE 61-79 - Internally or externally balanced 460?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Internally or externally balanced 460?
Re: FTE 61-79 - Front hub removal (74 f250 4x4)
Re: FTE 61-79 - Internally or externally balanced 460?
FTE 61-79 - wheels for sale
Re: FTE 61-79 - Howling
Re: FTE 61-79 - standard cab/ supercab swap?
Re: FTE 61-79 - lightening bolt
Re: FTE 61-79 - 73 F250 P/S
FTE 61-79 - Door Seal Install
Re: FTE 61-79 - Door Seal Install
RE: FTE 61-79 - starts - dies
Re: FTE 61-79 - 73 F250 P/S

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:15:07 +0100
From: dave peters
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Leaking Water

I have a 1972 F-100 that leaks all the water from the water jacket within 2
minutes from the backside of the engine where the clutch bell housing
connects.
Other than this problem, the engine runs fine.

Does anyone know if there is a freeze plug in the back of the engine? I
was hoping this might be the problem, rather than a cracked block.

TIA


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Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:28:16 -0600
From: William A Whited
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - standard cab/ supercab swap?

Wish, Come on now we had the discussion about terms before. The SUPERCAB (not
extended cab) of my 74 is 139 and my 77 long bed is 133.

"William S. Hart" wrote:

> > With my growing family it is getting harder and harder to all pile into
> > the 77' and go for a ride. Is it at all possible to swap out my
> > standard cab long bed for a super cab short bed, or a super cab with a
> > custom made flatbed?
>
> I think you will have to fiddle with the cab mounts, and go with the flat
> bed ... if I remember right the regular cab long bed is 133" wheel base
> while the extended cab-short bed is 140 and the Super Camper Special (F350)
> is a 139" wheel base ...
>
> anyone got corrections on that one ???
>
> Just my $.02
> wish
>
> 96 Mustang GT 4.6L
> 73ish F100 4x4 6.4L
> http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish
>
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- --
William A Whited
74 F100 RANGER SUPERCAB 390
77 F150 CUSTOM 460
SEMPER FI


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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:28:49 -0400
From: "Clem Salek"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Internally or externally balanced 460?

>Ultimately as you all may know I am swapping the 4spd for an auto.....so do
>I need a special flexplate (whatever the term is for the auto flywheel) for
>this if it is externally balanced?
>
>David

Why's everyone swapping out the 4 speeds for C6's? I started with a 4
speed/300, went to a 4spd/302, then a C6/460, and swapped to a 4spd/460. I
think the 4spd/460 is an excellent combo. Don't get me wrong...the C6 is a
great tranny-as far as automatics go, but the slushboxes are so
finiky...4spds are soooo much more durable.

Clem
"Recon Unit 1"
'79 F350 4x4,460,NP435
10Ton PTO winch

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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:15:25 EDT
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - I-6 Website

The I-6 website that I saw only had one line:

"Replace with FE"

Sorry, Kid Marino, couldn't resist!!!!!!

CJ
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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:21:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Lee
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Knock Detectors

Gary,

This is the advantage of a knock detector. You can run
enough initial advance to get good low speed power and
economy, but under a heavy load and knock conditions
occur, the total advance backs off so that you get all
the usable power that the fuel will produce and no
wastful knocking.

Dan Lee
'53 F100
400C-4V


> In my experience, an engine that is prone to
knockcan
>not be set up to run efficiently and therefore will
>not get very good
>mileage unless you allow it to knock. I've tried
>retarding the sparkon
>many engines to eliminate the knock but they still
>knock under certain
>conditions no matter how you set them up and if you
>retard the sparkenough
>so there is "no" knock it will not even run.


>All the M blocks I've had do the same thing. If you
>attempt to advancethe
>timing so you can get some economy out of them they
>will knock yoursocks
>off :-( This is undoubtedly the result of cam
>design, ignition timingand
>combustion chamber design. The 460 can be run at
>fairly highcompressions
>on regular gas with no trouble, many others can't.
>I backed my bronco down till I was pretty satisfied
>with the knock atlow
>speed/heavy load and noticed a very pronounced loss
>in power and itbegan to
>surge at cruise. The difference between that and
>where it is now isonly a
>few degrees, about 4 I think and just adding two more
>makes it all but
>undriveable since you can't allow any pressure on it
>at low speeds. I'm
>running 8 degrees right now and at 10 it cruises much
>better and getsbetter economy but knocks too much
>going through the gears.

=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:30:29 -0700
From: Jeff Harsha
Subject: [none]

If anyone is interested, my neighbor in the little industrial park my =
office is in has a 1976 F150 custom 4X4 longbed with 360, 4speed, AC(not =
currently working but complete). It also has PS/PB. It is in pretty =
decent shape, no rust, runs good, has step bumper with hitch and dual =
tanks. It is light and dark green. Has 120,000 miles and needs =
upholstery, not much else. He wants $2,500.00 for it. If you are =
interested I'll put you in touch with him The truck and I are in =
Clovis, Ca.

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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:38:30 -0700
From: Jeff Harsha
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 1976 F150 for sale

If anyone is interested, my neighbor in the little industrial park my =
office is in has a 1976 F150 custom 4X4 longbed with 360, 4speed, AC(not =
currently working but complete). It also has PS/PB. It is in pretty =
decent shape, no rust, runs good, has step bumper with hitch and dual =
tanks. It is light and dark green. Has 120,000 miles and needs =
upholstery, not much else. He wants $2,500.00 for it. If you are =
interested I'll put you in touch with him The truck and I are in =
Clovis, Ca.
(sorry I left the subject off on the first post...I'm just getting used =
to the email program I switched to...)

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Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 19:08:20 -0400
From: Tony Marino
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - I-6 Website

Grumble grumble grumble..... ;-)

Tony has more important things going on right now, sorry to those who have
e-mailed me asking for information-- I'll return to being a normal human
being after the year 2000. Right now it's a 50/50 chance.

Unfortunately, I'm not Y2K compatible...

Tony
tony pscico.com
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.pscico.com/~tony


BDIJXS aol.com wrote:

> The I-6 website that I saw only had one line:
>
> "Replace with FE"
>
> Sorry, Kid Marino, couldn't resist!!!!!!
>
> CJ
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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:31:33 -0600
From: "Danger"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - I-6 Website

> The I-6 website that I saw only had one line:
>
> "Replace with FE"
>
> Sorry, Kid Marino, couldn't resist!!!!!!
>
> CJ
........

Hehe,... I'll second that motion.

Danger


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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:50:33 -0600
From: "Danger"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - starts - dies

> If you don't care about economy or tipin and want good starts, put a
Holley
> on it......:-)
>
> --
> Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
> 78 Bronco Loving, Gary
.............

Both of my 69 F250's are equipped with Holleys & 390 4 bbls, and I
honestly haven't noticed a problem with economy or tipin.

If the Holley isn't a good carb for economy or tipin, then what is? I
thought that the adjustable accelerator pump circuit provided off idle
performance when adjusted properly? 11-14 MPG from a 390 in a full size
truck seems reasonable to me. How many MPG's would you consider to be
economical?


Danger
danger csolutions.net


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Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 17:26:34 PDT
From: "George Litton"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Stainless & Chrome

As always, with dis-similar metals, use anti-sieze to prevent galling.
Stainless is very prone to galling, and heat expansion, if used on exhaust
bolts[i.e. fuel injected 460's in 87 & newer trucks].


>From: "Danger"
>Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Stainless & Chrome
>Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 03:08:46 -0600
>
>
> > I need to know if using a regular chrome plated nut on a stainless bolt
> > would have any adverse affects? It's only temporary until I can find the
> > right stainless nuts. I'm having a heck of a time finding "5/16-24 and
> > '3/8-24 stainless nuts. No luck at Lowe's, Ace Hardware, or any of the
>auto
> > parts stores. I e-mailed Totally Stainless 3 days ago and still haven't
> > gotten a reply. If anyone knows a reliable source, PLEASE let me know.
> >
> > As always thanks,
> >
> >
> > Ted Wnorowski
> > Bellevue,OH
> > ' 64 F-250
> > 352 transplant
> > 4 speed
>............
>
> The best place to start your search would be your local yellow pages
>under "bolt". I'd think that there should be a nut & bolt supply house
>which
>provides hardware for the local businesses. It seems like an aircraft
>mechanic would either have stainless in stock or know of a nearby supplier.
>
>Danger
>danger csolutions.net
>
>
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>

______________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 17:44:12 -0700
From: Dennis Pearson
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Unibody ?

Thanks for your message at 11:41 AM 10/7/99 -0700, Bill Deacon. Your
message was:
>Why did Ford decide to make the Unibody? Was it strictly a styling thing?

In my opinion, yes. And they are very stylish (again, IMHO).

>Are there any problems and/or characteristics that these trucks have
>compared to their conventional counterparts from the same era?

Well, my Unibody is one of the main loves of my life, but I don't really
use it as a truck, per se. Likewise, I wouldn't think a 4WD Unibody would
be very practical, especially an off-road vehicle. There seems a lot of
potential for twisting the body out of good shape. Ford must have agreed,
since all their 4WD trucks were not Unibody.
Also, I have heard of some points of the body/bed being susceptible to
rust, but I haven't experienced that yet, or at least haven't found it.
I'm about to get into a long-term project preparing my truck for paint
(eventually). I'll have to deal with any rust as I find it. In my
climate, I shouldn't find much.

Anyway, I guess the two main reasons I like my truck so much are the
distinctive looks (wraparound rear window short bed) and the 351C, which,
of course has nothing to do with an original Unibody engine (mine was a six).

I have a feeling the value of these trucks will soon be appreciated in the
marketplace because of their relative scarcity. So I guess if you like to
speculate, there is another positive point for the Unibody...


>
>
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>
>
Dennis Pearson in Kennewick, WA

1962 Unibody, short box, big window--351C
1966 F250 Custom Cab, 352, 4-speed
1962 short stepside (big empty space under the hood)
I shortened this to only FT's

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home.att.net/~dlpearson/levi.htm
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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:58:03 EDT
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - NO OIL PRESURE!

In a message dated 10/6/1999 9:21:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
us5zahns earthlink.net writes:


'71 F350. It was running good for about a week and then suddenly there is
no oil pressure showing on the gauge. I installed another gauge today and
still no pressure showing. I start it and it makes slight noises from the
lifters but not the kind you would expect if there was no oil getting to
them. Since it did have pressure when I first started it I was wondering if
anyone knows where I should start looking. >>

There are several things that could cause this. Based on the recent rebuild
and if rags that are not lint free were used inside the block, they leave a
tremendous amount lint that will significantly block the suction screen and
reduce the oil pressure. Has another path opened up for the oil to take such
as increased bearing clearances? If this a mid or rear sump are the little
bolts and gasket that hold and seal the suction line to the pump as they
should be? If it is a front sump was the suction line pressed on properly
on? It is doubtful that the oil pump has failed. Check the two hex plugs
under the intake manifold to be sure they are not bleeding pressure off. I
would pull the oil pan immediately and verify the suction line screen and fit
up to the pump. Also pop a main cap looking for abnormal wear. Having
something block or introduce air to the pump will definitely reduce pressure.

From experience I think it is most likely something on the suction side due
recent work in that area. I mentioned on this list sometime back that a
friend of mind drove his 460 over ten miles with the oil pump shaft removed
and no obvious harm, but his engine had 90K miles and thus less prone to
seize up. He had just finished working on the distributor and managed to
knock the oil pump drive out, did you have the distributor out lately? Good
Luck
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:26:16 EDT
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Internally or externally balanced 460?

In a message dated 10/7/1999 9:44:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
David.R.John deluxe.com writes:


Therefore it should be internally balanced right? Well when I pulled the
motor to address my blowby issue I recall seeing a lobe (a weighted thingy)
behind the harmonic balancer does this suggest externally balanced. I do
not recall seeing any weights on the flywheel (I will double check). >>

Normally I would say you were right, but this block casting number does not
show up in my book (byTom Monroe). It may mean someone used a harmonic
balancer and weight from a newer engine. Or it could be a newer engine with
a really hard to read casting number.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:40:14 -0700
From: "Bill Beyer"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Internally or externally balanced 460?

Don't be too quick to take the numbers in that book as gospel. The 351M
block casting # I have is D7TE-A3B and it's not in the book. The Cleveland
2V heads I have are casting # D4AE, also not in the book. They've been
cleaned and painted so the #s are very easy to read.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"

- -----Original Message-----
From: SHill48337 aol.com
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Internally or externally balanced 460?


>Normally I would say you were right, but this block casting number does not
>show up in my book (byTom Monroe). It may mean someone used a harmonic
>balancer and weight from a newer engine. Or it could be a newer engine
with
>a really hard to read casting number.



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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:40:55 EDT
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Front hub removal (74 f250 4x4)

In a message dated 10/7/1999 11:12:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
kbaillie home.com writes:


it, not like a regular nut that a socket would fit over) is this all
that's left to be removed before the drum will slide off? >>

Yes, there is the lock nut you see plus a washer behind it with another
identical nut behind that. As for the socket, your friendly auto parts
dealer will be happy to sell you one for around $20, got mine at NAPA. And
yes it may slide off if the drum if it is not grooved and trapping the shoes
(in which case you will need to loosen the adjusting wheel for the brake).
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:52:16 EDT
From: SHill48337 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Internally or externally balanced 460?

In a message dated 10/7/1999 6:43:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
bbeyer pacifier.com writes:


block casting # I have is D7TE-A3B and it's not in the book. The Cleveland
2V heads I have are casting # D4AE, also not in the book. They've been
cleaned and painted so the #s are very easy to read.
>>
I agree as I have found some other inconsistencies there also.
Burt Hill Kennewick WA 1972 F-250 4x4 460
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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:38:48 EDT
From: JJJJJGRANT aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - wheels for sale

aluminum five stars, fairly new 15x7, $150.00 i'm looking for a set of the
chrome wheels that came on the 95 and 96 f150, if anyone has a set let me
know.

jeff grant
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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:48:34 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Howling

In a message dated 10/7/99 6:43:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
luxjo thecore.com writes:


cruise/accel, but is quiet on decel/coast :-). >>

When mine went out it would only whine at steady speed. If I got on it or
backed off, itd go away. Towards the end it was really getting loud too. I
suggest getting that thing checked out, as Mine was so bad when I took it in,
they had to rebuild the case due to a bearing spinning.

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:11:14 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - standard cab/ supercab swap?

In a message dated 10/7/99 11:11:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
wish iastate.edu writes:


bed ... if I remember right the regular cab long bed is 133" wheel base
while the extended cab-short bed is 140 and the Super Camper Special (F350)
is a 139" wheel base ...

anyone got corrections on that one ??? >>

Looks good to me. I did a few measurements because I was thinking of turning
Tweety into a Supercab Shortbed. Then I started thinking, what good is a
10,000 GVW with a shortbed?

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:17:58 -0500
From: "Howard Bottles"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - lightening bolt

I have a late '73 F250 Custom 3spd on the tree that has a rubber mat instead of
carpet, and it has the gear and lightening bolt in the center where the 4 spd
gearshift would be. I believe the mat is original equipment

FWIW......
Howardb

Alex Beshirs wrote:

> >Someone writes: >>what's the deal with the gear and lightning bolt on the
> >rubber
> >> flooring? I haven't seen it again on any ford trucks as I rummaged
> >> throught them in the salvage yard.
>
> >If I'm not mistaken this is early '60's and maybe 50's emblem for the 6 cyl
> ford
> >trucks.
>
> >Azie
> >Ardmore, Al.
>
> I got a ' 68 F-100, and I got it on mine, so I reckon it ran on into to the
> late 60's at least.
>
> Plowboy
> Dallas, Tx
>
> Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up
> and hurry off as if nothing happened -- Winston Churchill
>
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>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:20:09 -0700
From: Dale Blanchard
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 73 F250 P/S

Bret Godfrey wrote:
>
> I have the 77' p/s setup that is shot and in need of
> replacement. I was talking to a guy I work with, and he said that a p/s
> unit off a 1 ton international truck would bolt right up to my frame and
> pitman arm, which would allow me to get rid of all that power assist
> sh*t. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing, or had any experience with
> it.
>
> Bret G.
> 77' f250
> 4x4
>
> == FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

I just replaced mine on a 73 F-250 with a rebuilt one from
auto Zone for about $200.00. Should have done it 15 years ago.
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Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:44:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: crewcab altavista.net
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Door Seal Install

A few weeks ago I posted a query about better ways to
install a door seal. One potentially useful post
indicated that Dennis Carpenter had a great write up
on it in their catalog. I waited patiently for their
catalog, and lo and behold, nothing there.

Whoever has that version of the catalog, would you
please Pmail me? I'd love to get a photo copy or
a scanned version of the procedure.

There's gotta be a better way than how I did it, and
the weather is gonna turn wet soon, so need to seal
up at least the front doors!

Jeff '64 F100 CrewCab

- ----------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 01:05:47 -0400
From: Ted Wnorowski
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Door Seal Install

At 12:44 AM 10/8/99 -0400, you wrote:
> One potentially useful post
>indicated that Dennis Carpenter had a great write up
>on it in their catalog.

The Carpenter catalog that I've got, has a write-up about
installing the deluxe anti-rattler kit that they sell. I believe it is last
years copy.


Ted Wnorowski
Bellevue,OH
' 64 F-250
352 transplant
4 speed



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Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 00:34:54 -0700
From: sdelanty sonic.net
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - starts - dies

Gary wrote:

> The two wires you speak of are the
>"start" and "Run" circuits and the start circuit only has voltage when the
>ignition key is in the full start position to engage the starter. That wire
>is actually energized by the start relay when the key is turned. The other
>wire has about 8 volts on it in the run position and is only energized when
>the key is released. Unlike the start wire it receives it's power via the
>ignition switch.

Gary, if you're talking D-spark here, that's not quite right.
The "run"(red) and "start"(white) wires are connected like you
describe, but when they are energized they should have 12volts on
them. If the run wire (red) only has 8 volts on it then something
is wrong as it's connected to 12 volts right thru the ignition switch.
There is no resistor ballast in that circuit.
The only resistor ballast is in series with the coil.


Steve
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.sonic.net/~sdelanty

== FTE: Uns*bscribe and posting info http://www.ford-trucks.com/faq.html

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Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 03:39:35 -0400
From: Tony Marino....

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