From: owner-61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com (61-79-list-digest)
To: 61-79-list-digest ford-trucks.com
Subject: 61-79-list-digest V3 #308
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61-79-list-digest Monday, August 30 1999 Volume 03 : Number 308



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
Visit our web site: http://www.ford-trucks.com/
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=======================================================================
In this issue:

RE: FTE 61-79 - 78 Super Cab Motor Swap problems
Re: FTE 61-79 - 64ish Muffler & Exhaust Exit Location
RE: FTE 61-79 - C6
RE: FTE 61-79 - new site
FTE 61-79 - Mustang list
FTE 61-79 - 69 Bronco brake system upgrade
FTE 61-79 - pi
FTE 61-79 - Rear disc for 9"
FTE 61-79 - 1965-66 Inner Fenders
Re: FTE 61-79 - Mustang list
FTE 61-79 - Fw: Firewall data plates
FTE 61-79 - Re: -- Firewall data plates
FTE 61-79 - New purchase, lots of questions.
FTE 61-79 - 79F250 w/39.5's and Poor Breaks
FTE 61-79 - Power Brakes, Hydro :-)
RE: FTE 61-79 - Power Brakes, Hydro :-)
RE: FTE 61-79 - Rear disc for 9"
FTE 61-79 - 427 block casting
FTE 61-79 - SPEAKERS???
RE: FTE 61-79 - SPEAKERS???
RE: FTE 61-79 - Power Brakes, Hydro :-)
FTE 61-79 - NOS
FTE 61-79 - NOS again
Re: FTE 61-79 - NOS again
Re: FTE 61-79 - Fwd: ' 64 Radiator
FTE 61-79 - Wheel bolt patterns
FTE 61-79 - Eheel bolt patterns
RE: FTE 61-79 - Rear disc for 9"
FTE 61-79 - 67' power disc upgrade woes
Re: FTE 61-79 - SPEAKERS???
FTE 61-79 - 3spOD
Re: FTE 61-79 - NOS again
Re: FTE 61-79 - Fwd: ' 64 Radiator
Re: FTE 61-79 - 427 block casting
FTE 61-79 - Whistle tranny and new tires?
Re: FTE 61-79 - 427 block casting
FTE 61-79 - Three Speed with Overdrive Problems
FTE 61-79 - Web Page
Re: FTE 61-79 - 67' power disc upgrade woes
Re: FTE 61-79 - 427 block casting
Re: FTE 61-79 - three speed with overdrive problems
Re: FTE 61-79 - 427 block casting
FTE 61-79 - RE: Brake Bleeding
FTE 61-79 - 300 swirl piston
FTE 61-79 - Clutch Adjustment
FTE 61-79 - 1972 ford f-100 engines-302
FTE 61-79 - 460 Carb Change
FTE 61-79 - 1965-66 Inner fenders
Re: FTE 61-79 - 427 block casting
FTE 61-79 - 330ci trk engine
Re: FTE 61-79 - 330ci trk engine
FTE 61-79 - Horsepower

=======================================================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:20:04 -0400
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - 78 Super Cab Motor Swap problems

Technically, any part that has a torqe sequence to tighten it "should"
be loosened in the same manner to prevent potential warpage or seating
etc.. In practice I doubt that it's very important except for such
items as aluminum heads which have relatively high torque applied and
are prone to being affected this way.

The main cap should probably be loosened on both sides enough to take
the pressure off the cap before removing the one bolt as suggested but I
would not move the cap or disturb it in any way if I could help it. You
don't want any oil seeping behind the inserts to interfere with heat
transfer.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Loosen each bolt on the affected cap consistently then
> replace the one bolt
> with the correct bolt and re-tighten that cap to specs.
>
>
> > Another quick question is how strong is the oil pick
> up tube? Mine
> does
> > not seem to budge from the old oil pump and I wondering
> how much force I
> can
> > use to remove it.

There are 3 methods for attaching the tube to the pump I know of:
Press, bolt and pipe thread. When you do any bottom end work on your
engine.....ALWAYS REPLACE THE PICKUP TUBE AND SCREEN!!! Don't use the
old one, ever (unless you just put a new one on). They are pretty
strong but use some judgement based on the design.
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 05:09:57 PDT
From: "White Wolf"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 64ish Muffler & Exhaust Exit Location

>The muffler in my '64 crewcab sits directly under the
>rear seat area significantly heating the floor as I
>remember as a kid in the back, and the exhaust exits
>out just behind the right rear door. At idle one must
>keep the door closed or else!
>

This is exactly how mine was when I bought my truck. I quickly had pipe
coming out the rear installed..


Corey Johnson

______________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:39:07 -0400
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - C6

Yes! Be carefull! I didn't notice this differnce and had my linkage
backward while filling the tranny after the install and it was in low
gear instead of park!!!.....engine running, me in front filling the dang
thing, thinking it was in park.....I still get goose bumps thinking
about the potential for disaster there, revving the engine once in a
while etc.....

There are actually two, opposing, linkages used on the c-6 and may even
involve two different valves (not sure). Valves may be the same and
only the orientation of the lever makes the differnce as mentioned
below. In any case check the operation before starting the engine.....

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> One more diff between a 4x4 C6 & a 2x4 C6 - The Gearshift
> Selector input
> lever. My 79 Bronco had one that is above the shaft. The C6 I
> got from a 79
> Supercab Donor had it's hanging down. Yup, can relate to the
> different output
> shaft & housing! Been there & changed that!
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:58:51 -0400
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - new site

Jeremy, I've seen this done with other groups and with at least a small
amount of success but I think you will find that sites that restrict
discussions too much become very stuffy and people don't stay too long,
nor do they learn much. The beauty and also one of it's biggest
drawbacks of this list is the family like nature of the patronage and
freedom of expression allowed here.

We are like family and able to discuss personal things sometimes which
makes it a really nice place to be but this also leads to considerable
mail traffic which some (including myself at times) can't handle so I
guess there is room for both types of list for the same topic. Pay
attention to what Ken says though, he is not lying to you about the
costs or time required to maintain a site like you suggest.

I prefer this type of list environment in spite of any of it's drawbacks
so plan to remain loyal to Ken's concept of list strategy but you have
my blessing :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> I am thinking of starting a new web site devoted to ford
> trucks....Its Free.
> I have never posted here though i've been subscribing for
> about 3 years.
> The site will have message boards, picture gallery (you can
> post your own
> pictures) and links to other ford truck links....
> if your interested let me know....
> taco21 mediaone.net
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:09:49 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Mustang list

Could/would someone post me a WWW list where I could get information on
performance figures for the 80's and 90's Mustangs??? Not for me, but a
coworker.

Thanks
Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:23:00 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 69 Bronco brake system upgrade

>>Whatever you get, make sure it works with your linkage and preferably one
that sits level on the fire wall for easier bleeding later.

I'm going to mildly disagree with Gary on this one. When you are bench
bleeding the master cylinder, it needs to be level on order for air to
escape completely, but when you install it on the truck it needs to be
tilted with the rear lower than the front. There was a specific warning in
my last mc not to bleed it on the car, but bench bleed it first. As I think
about it, the 69s may have used a level mc as original equipment. All I own
now is 79 and later. They all tilt when installed.

>>You guys with mushy brakes who have bled them till you drop should look at
the proportioning valve as already mentioned.

On this point I am in 100% agreement.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:33:33 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - pi

>>Isn't any value of Pi an approximation? When I wash my truck and I'm
figuring the length of the hose coiled on the side of the house, I use 3.
It works pretty well. We put a man into orbit and brought him back with 4
decimal places. I heard someone did find the value of Pi a few years ago
and it's probably a precise number; however, does it have an automotive
application? Spreadsheets are great, but I wonder how many decent engines
were rebuilt using a tape measure, because calipers and a mic were too
expensive. Before you get in your truck, make a 360 deg. turn. You'll still
get where you're going...:) Just my 0.0200000 cents.

You are correct, Scott, when you said all values for pi are an
approximation. Numbers of this type are called irrational numbers. (Now
there is an opening if I ever saw one.) It is irrational because it cannot
be expressed as a ratio which we know better as fractions. Whether
calculated to 2 places or 2 million, it would still be an approximation.
BTW, there are lots of irrational numbers. Euler's constant, represented by
e, or the square root of any number that is not a perfect square (2, 3, 5,
7, 11, 45, etc.), plus lots more.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:46:14 -0500
From: "John LaGrone"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Rear disc for 9"

>>Don't lincolns use the car bolt pattern (5 on 4.5?) versus your truck
pattern (5 on 5.5?)

This is what I was told when I was wheel searching.

- -- John
jlagrone ford-trucks.com
1979 F150 Custom LWB Regular Cab 351M C6 (Henry)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/jlagrone/henry.home.htm
Dearborn iron rules!!!!
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:59:41 EDT
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 1965-66 Inner Fenders

Does anyone know whether the Inner Fender Apron for a 1966 F-250 4x2 is
unique to that model or do they all interchange between models? If so which
years are they the same? Thanks in advance.

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (HELP!---I need 15 x5 factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:05:21 -0400
From: kpayne ford-trucks.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Mustang list

am14 daimlerchrysler.com wrote:
>
> Could/would someone post me a WWW list where I could get information on
> performance figures for the 80's and 90's Mustangs??? Not for me, but a
> coworker.
>
> Thanks
> Azie
> Ardmore, Al.
>

Azie,

Here you go, this is from the Fordnatics web site. Normally
I would just give the address but I know that you can't surf
the web from your location so here you go:

"To subscribe, send a message to 50natics-request lists.best.com.
If you want the digest, put the following on a line by itself
in your message:

subscribe

And if you want the live list, use the following command:

subsingle
"

Later,
Ken Payne
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:16:35 -0700
From: "Steven Salas"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Fw: Firewall data plates

- -----Original Message-----
From: Steven Salas
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Saturday, August 28, 1999 10:09 PM
Subject: Firewall data plates


>Does anyone know how to decode the firewall mounted data plates. My buddy
>just bought a real nice '72 F250 Ranger XLT. Unfortunately the drivers
door
>has been replaced and the only other data I can find is whats on a plate
on
>the firewall. It reads something like this : 4-316 TF2 8
> ---- -------------------
- -
>------------------- B
>Thanks in advance. Steve
>
>



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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:30:45 EDT
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: -- Firewall data plates

The firewall plate should still have the full Warranty Number on it which can
be used to decode some information. The information you posted does not look
complete. Also Ford sometimes put a Truck Specification List commonly
referred to as a "Build Sheet" under the seat between the springs and
padding. You will need to pull the seat to remove it and be extra careful
because they crumble easy. Happy hunting.

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (HELP!---I need 15 x5 factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:51:25 -0400
From: Steve Schaefer
Subject: FTE 61-79 - New purchase, lots of questions.

Hello guys/gals. I have been lurking in the list for 1 1/2 years now, answered a
couple of questions, but for the most part, taking in the valuable information on
this list. I have a couple of questions for the list. First of all, I already have
a 77 F-250 Extend cab long bed and allot of mechanical ability, the new truck is a 76
F-350 Crew cab cab chassis (don't hate me, I know allot of people have been looking
for both of these trucks). I bought it at my local salvage yard (basically I bought
a rearend and the rest of the truck came with it:>)). It originally had a 360 and a
4 speed. I also bought a 460 and c-6 out of an E-350. My question is will the frame
mounts (stations) from the E-350 work on the F-350. I can drill new holes if I have
too, but will this put the motor in the proper position in the frame. Second, will
the exhaust manifolds from the van work within the truck frame. The last question,
where can I find replacement panels for such things as; rear rocker panels, and rear
floor panels. Thanks for all the answers in advance.

Steve S.
77 F-250 (yellow/purple, barney)
76 F-350 Crew cab (soon to be a rollback)
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/8663/

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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:58:04 -0700
From: "Chris Samuel"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 79F250 w/39.5's and Poor Breaks

Hi, Wayne.

SNIP
>Does anybody know if there is a "performance grade material" pad that I can
use?

Use a soft pad, not a metallic. Carry spare pads as they are going to wear
fast. They will go even faster after a long hill &/or hard stopping.
Perf. Pads are generally harder and may work better when hot, they will be
worse when cold. Hot, you know will happen so you can plan for to a degree.
Cold, you will regret when you don't stop until ya hit something.

>Will "Grooving" the pads work any better than stock....or maybe cross
drilling the front rotors?

Do NOT cross drill the rotors! Do not be "Grooving" the pads. Both will
make your problem worse not better. Both will work for cleaning Water off
the disk, but I'm guessing your problem is on the street.

>I have 1500 PSI at each corner when I stomp on them (I have disc front &
rear). I know this is acceptable (really the limit for standard brake
tubing), so more PSI is out of the question.

Replace every rubber line with Braided Stainless Teflon hose*. You can build
it yourself, but you won't be "DOT APPROVED". I believe that you can get DOT
Approved lines for some trucks. Mine? Non-DOT. 100% Improvement. 100% Safer.
Not "DOT" Approved. *Reason is; Rubber lines swell with pressure (Old ones
more then new) and the Stainless ones just don't.

>I am running 39-1/2" x 18" Wide Boggers...that might be the REAL
problem......not the brakes.

You got it!
Breaks work by turning the kinetic energy of you truck in motion in to
Thermal energy, or heat.
Your problem is that your breaks are not big enough to do the job with your
big tires. Breaks are sized not only for weight, but for the lever
(wheel/tire Radius) that works against them. Most breaks are sized with a
safety factor built in. 39" you exceeded the over build in them.
Check your calipers. Single piston or multi piston? You want the multi
piston and correct master cylinder. Multi Piston gives a more even
application of hydraulic pressure across the pad.
I have known several people that have added a second caliper to the front;
and several others who replaced the front disks with larger aftermarket.
You should also look into rear disks and an adjustable Proportioning Valve.
BUT.
Start with the simple things first.
Soft Pads.
Replace the Rubber hoses with Stainless.
Swap Calipers if possible.

MUEL


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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:43:11 -0400
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Power Brakes, Hydro :-)

Well gang, I got that lincoln almost stripped and that hydro booster is
really neat. It's definitely going into the bronco along with the power
steering pump which goes with it. I will have hard, good brakes very
soon now :-) I also kept the steering column for both the auto linkage
and the cruise control steering wheel just in case :-) The Speedo says
89k miles and I beilieve it might be right based on the condition of
some of these parts :-)

If anyone needs trim or body parts for a 78 continental let me know cuz
it's going to the yard soon :-) I'm keeping the front seats, wire
harness, AC, motors etc. but don't have any use for the trim or body
panels, doors, glass etc..

It was a grand old car but the frame was shot so I opted to strip it
rather than restore it :-(

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:14:59 -0500
From: Dave Jacobs
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Power Brakes, Hydro :-)

Did it have a 460 in it? If so, I would be interested in the AC bracket. If
it held a York compressor. Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: Peters, Gary (G.R.) [mailto:gpeters3 visteon.com]
Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 8:43 AM
To: '61-79-list ford-trucks.com'
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Power Brakes, Hydro :-)

Well gang, I got that lincoln almost stripped and that hydro
booster is
really neat. It's definitely going into the bronco along
with the power
steering pump which goes with it. I will have hard, good
brakes very
soon now :-) I also kept the steering column for both the
auto linkage
and the cruise control steering wheel just in case :-) The
Speedo says
89k miles and I beilieve it might be right based on the
condition of
some of these parts :-)

If anyone needs trim or body parts for a 78 continental let
me know cuz
it's going to the yard soon :-) I'm keeping the front
seats, wire
harness, AC, motors etc. but don't have any use for the trim
or body
panels, doors, glass etc..

It was a grand old car but the frame was shot so I opted to
strip it
rather than restore it :-(

--
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary

http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
--

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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:57:46 -0400
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Rear disc for 9"

I think it was the center hub that caused the problem in the case I
mentioned, not the bolt circle and I believe it was the 74 merc with the
large center hub so the 67 pickup wheels wouldn't fit or something like
that. I believe the earlier 9" axles had smaller hubs but still had the
5.5" bolt circle.

This is all strictly old man, damaged memory so don't take it to the
bank :-) Give me a few days and I will try to verify some of this for
you. I have two wheel styles out back, some have smaller center holes.
(maybe I got rid of those, not sure)

BTW, I don't think the lincoln wheels will fit a 4x4 but I'm sure they
will fit a 2x4 truck. These are very nice, factory, forged,
multi-spoked or ribbed, aluminum wheels in very good condition and I
don't think I will have a use for them so they may come up for sale :-)
I already have a set of OEM 5 slot forged 6" wheels for my PU and they
will fit a 4x4 (had them on the van :-))

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> Are you sure on this ? I know our 69 Cougar with a 9" has
> the same bolt
> pattern as my 96 'stang with an 8.8" in it ... and there's no
> way these will
> bolt on to my 73 1/2 ton with a 9" in the rear ... I'll try
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:52:54 -0700
From: Brian Koss
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 427 block casting

This weekend I was asked to take a look at a friends boat. The shop they
have it at is having a difficult time identifying the motor because it is a
Ford and not Chevy. I went expecting a 351 and found what I believe to be a
427 side oiler. It has the screw in freeze plugs and the cross bolted
mains. The build date on the heads is July '65. The casting number on the
block is C5AE-A. I was unable to check the stroke length becuase we did not
have any tools. Does anybody have info on the casting number?

Unfortunately the motor was unwinterized last year and they are getting
water in the oil. It is not in the cylinders because the motor starts and
runs fine. The guy at the shop ran it without oil to show them how water
collects in the oil filter socket. The mechanic is not that knowledgable
with big ford engines and not very anal about keeping things clean. He
removed the valve cover and let it sit uncovered for the last month.

If the block turns out to be bad I offered to buy the core off of them for
the core charge. Can anything cool be built with the internals other than a
making a 390 with 427 crank and rods. The only difference seams to be the
bore. I already have a 428 CJ and a 390 GT but a 427 side oiler in my truck
would be COOL.


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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:11:08 EDT
From: Bad4dFilly aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - SPEAKERS???

Hey y'all! How hard is it to find 5" speakers for door panels? My dad says
that's the only size that'll fit in my '77. Is this an uncommon size???

*~*~Lisa and Envy~*~*
*~*~SIlly boys...trucks are for GIRLS!!~*~*
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:32:13 -0500
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - SPEAKERS???

> Hey y'all! How hard is it to find 5" speakers for door panels?
> My dad says
> that's the only size that'll fit in my '77. Is this an uncommon size???
>

5"? I thought it was 6.5 or something ??! Th eproblem I had was I was
cheap when I bought speakers so they didn't have the offset holes to line up
with the ones in the door ...

I tried 5" one time, they didn't fit well at all, I think you need to
remeasure those ... unless they changed the size of the door hole sometime
during production ...

Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 4.6L
73ish F100 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:33:52 -0500
From: "William S. Hart"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Power Brakes, Hydro :-)

> Well gang, I got that lincoln almost stripped and that hydro booster is
> really neat. It's definitely going into the bronco along with the power
> steering pump which goes with it.

They were using the hydro that far back ? Wow, and I thought the plumbing
nightmare on my GT was cool and new :) There really is nothin new is there
?


> I will have hard, good brakes very
> soon now :-) I also kept the steering column for both the auto linkage
> and the cruise control steering wheel just in case :-)

yeah the hydro brakes work very well, but I can't tell for sure if its the
hydro's or the discs that really give my pedal that great feel and plant
your face against the windshield (right CJ?)


Just my $.02
wish

96 Mustang GT 4.6L
73ish F100 4x4 6.4L
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.public.iastate.edu/~wish

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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:38:42 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - NOS

Gary C'mon now... I thought you were into restorations.

NOS = New old stock.

You've probably been told a couple hundred times by now, but I'm on digest and
at work only, so I couldn't resist answering prior to opening the remainder of
the digest.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:46:35 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - NOS again

Gary writes: >>Based on my understanding of this I once bought a NOS camshaft
that had been
on the back shelf in an autoparts store for several years.

That is New Old Stock. New being that it has never been sold/used. Old being
that is out of date. Not for current production. (I think the Mfg Co's use 7
years for this, but I may be wrong).

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:59:01 EDT
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - NOS again

In a message dated 8/30/99 12:49:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
am14 daimlerchrysler.com writes:

>
> That is New Old Stock. New being that it has never been sold/used. Old
> being that is out of date. Not for current production. (I think the Mfg
Co's use
> 7 years for this, but I may be wrong).

The only thing I'd add to what Azie has said is that NOS really should be
stated as "New Old Stock" from "X" Manufacturer. I say that because many
times people advertise items for sale as a new old stock Ford part and in
reality it turns out to be a new old stock replacement or reproduction item.
Frustrating as well as deceiving if your expecting an original Ford Part.


Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (HELP!---I need 15 x5 factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
1966 F-250 I6 240 2wd LWB Flare Side
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 03:49:08 -0700
From: "Danger"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Fwd: ' 64 Radiator

>> I haven't gotten any list mail at all today. So while I'm
> > testing, I need to know where to get a new radiator for my ' 64 F-250. I
> > know of a couple of places, and I know it's been discussed before. I
> > don't need anything special as far as x-tra cooling and so forth. I'm
> > just trying to get other peoples experiences so I can shop around .
............

You might want to browse the page at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.godan.com/gdifrm.html
for more info about radiators.


Danger


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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:03:16 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Wheel bolt patterns

William H. writes: >>Don't lincolns use the car bolt pattern (5 on 4.5?) versus
your truck
pattern (5 on 5.5?)az

Yep sure do. I'm hoping to unbolt the mechanics of the rear disc from the
lincoln rear and bolt them to the truck rear but have the rotors & anything else
that needs it) redrilled for the truck bolt pattern. I dream a lot, but that is
what I'm hoping for.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:13:15 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Eheel bolt patterns

Gary writes: >>9" all use 5.5 circle AFAIK on the full size at least.

Naw. Trucks use a larger bolt pattern (5.5") whereas cars use the 4.5.

Get in outta the Sun Gary!!!..

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:54:54 -0400
From: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"
Subject: RE: FTE 61-79 - Rear disc for 9"

Guarantee you the 78 or 74 large body ford family cars (linconln, merc,
etc.) all have the same pattern as the trucks but the center hub hole
size does vary between applications for some odd reason and of course
4x4's have the large center hole too :-) I will attempt to verify some
of this in the next few days for you :-)

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> >>Don't lincolns use the car bolt pattern (5 on 4.5?) versus
> your truck
> pattern (5 on 5.5?)
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:32:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas Trotter
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 67' power disc upgrade woes

I have been acquiring the parts necessary to update my 67’ F-250 to
discs. So far, I have purchased the spindles, new discs, calipers,
caliper brackets, dust shields and brake lines from a local wrecking
yard. Unfortunately, when I picked up the parts, I found out that they
were harvested from a 78’ F-350. They appeared to be the same as the
F-250 so I kept them. Recently, however, I purchased an F-350 vacuum
booster and master cylinder, which appear to be very different from the
F-250 units.

I’m told that it is important to have matching brake system parts, so I
have some real concerns. My questions are…

 Will the F-350 spindles fit on my 67’ I beams?
 Do I have to use the F-350 Vacuum Booster & Master Cylinder
and, if so, will it fit my 67’ firewall & pedal assembly?
 The F-350 unit certainly is larger that the F-250 unit, does
this mean that it’s better? Do I even want to try to fit it to my
truck? My girlfriend tells me not to worry, size doesn’t matter…but
she drives a Honda.

If anyone can help, I surely would appreciate it.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:39:52 EDT
From: IanBoss69 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - SPEAKERS???

lisa, crutchfield has 5 1/4" speakers from lots of different companys, their
website is www.crutchfield.com, their catalog is also free and full of
everything you'd need for your stereo system,,,,my advice though is to cut
those door panels to fit 6" speakers,,or even 6x9", which is what my truck
has, i think they sound much better than the 5". or you could build a box
for behind the seat to fit 6x9s, you can also buy them (the boxes) for about
25-30 bucks.

Ian
79 F250 4x4 4spd 351M
True Blue Ford Blue
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:38:38 -0400
From: am14 daimlerchrysler.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 3spOD

Jeff G writes: >> a relative has a 1971 f100 swb with a three speed trans with
a knob on the
dash to engage the overdrive, he needs repairs on the overdrive unit, but
can't find anyone that knows anything about the unit, he says its factory
ford, i figured it may be a dana/spicer piece, but he says its part of the
tranny.
if anyone knows anything about these units please let me know.

I'll try. Borg Warner units were optional thru the '73 model year. I've been
into several and will help you as much as possible, but I have no literature on
one. I have an Exploded view of one in a 1960 Motors Manual, and that is what I
use. The only thing complicated about the OD is the sprag (one way) clutch. It
has roller bearings on the outside of a cage that is a bugger to reinstall, and
nearly impossible with out someone that has been into one previously. (been
handed down from Old mechanic to young wanna be by demonstration).. If you have
a Fax, I can bring my book in and copy the exploded view and fax it to you.
Parts may be a bit hard to find.

Azie
Ardmore, Al.


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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:00:37 -0500
From: Larry Schmiedekamp
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - NOS again

I think your right azie. The law requires the Mfg. to make stock avaible 7
years after discontinuing it.


At 12:46 PM 8/30/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Gary writes: >>Based on my understanding of this I once bought a NOS
camshaft
>that had been
>on the back shelf in an autoparts store for several years.
>
>That is New Old Stock. New being that it has never been sold/used. Old
being
>that is out of date. Not for current production. (I think the Mfg Co's use 7
>years for this, but I may be wrong).
>
>Azie
>Ardmore, Al.
>
>
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>
>

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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:07:22 EDT
From: "Gerald Ash"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Fwd: ' 64 Radiator

I saw several 60's trucks today in the back of a mans field. There is two
pickups and several one tons.
Augusta
Georgia


- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Danger"
Reply-To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
To:
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Fwd: ' 64 Radiator
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 03:49:08 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>> I haven't gotten any list mail at all today. So while I'm
> > testing, I need to know where to get a new radiator for my ' 64 F-250.
I
> > know of a couple of places, and I know it's been discussed before. I
> > don't need anything special as far as x-tra cooling and so forth. I'm
> > just trying to get other peoples experiences so I can shop around .
............

You might want to browse the page at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.godan.com/gdifrm.html
for more info about radiators.


Danger


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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:05:26 -0700
From: "Danger"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 427 block casting

> The casting number on the
> block is C5AE-A. I was unable to check the stroke length becuase we did
not
> have any tools. Does anybody have info on the casting number?
..........

I'm looking at a chart which shows 3 different possibilities....

1) 330HD/3.875 Bore

2) 1965 390/4.05 Bore

3) 1965 427/4.23 Bore top-oiler

..... There is no mention about cross bolt mains


Danger


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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:36:16 CDT
From: "Bill Richardson"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Whistle tranny and new tires?

Okay ya'll here's the deal with my transmission. I installed a B&M shift
improvement kit. During the installation a hole on the seperator plate that
was supposed to be drilled to 1/8" was drilled to 3/16". All the rest of the
install went okay. I started it up and drove around the block a few times
easy. Then I drove it a little faster and when I did a slight whistle sound
could be heard. It shifted okay, but just made a weird sound.
I'm also looking for tires and i found some that will be for sale this
weekend. They are 275/60/15 BFGs on American Racing 15x10s. I wanted to know
if these will fit. The truck is still at it's stock height. Do I need to
worry about the backspacing? If so what is it? thanks

Bill Richardson
1979 F-100 2wd

______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:12:39 -0400
From: Brent Cole
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 427 block casting

According to my book, I have a C5AE-D and a C5AE-H are all listed as 427s
but I don't have a C5AE-A. The timing of July and the letter A seem to
conside though. I'll keep looking. Wow, what a find!

Brent

- -----Original Message-----
From: Brian Koss
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, August 30, 1999 11:58 AM
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 427 block casting


>This weekend I was asked to take a look at a friends boat. The shop they
>have it at is having a difficult time identifying the motor because it is a
>Ford and not Chevy. I went expecting a 351 and found what I believe to be a
>427 side oiler. It has the screw in freeze plugs and the cross bolted
>mains. The build date on the heads is July '65. The casting number on the
>block is C5AE-A. I was unable to check the stroke length becuase we did not
>have any tools. Does anybody have info on the casting number?
>
>Unfortunately the motor was unwinterized last year and they are getting
>water in the oil. It is not in the cylinders because the motor starts and
>runs fine. The guy at the shop ran it without oil to show them how water
>collects in the oil filter socket. The mechanic is not that knowledgable
>with big ford engines and not very anal about keeping things clean. He
>removed the valve cover and let it sit uncovered for the last month.
>
>If the block turns out to be bad I offered to buy the core off of them for
>the core charge. Can anything cool be built with the internals other than a
>making a 390 with 427 crank and rods. The only difference seams to be the
>bore. I already have a 428 CJ and a 390 GT but a 427 side oiler in my truck
>would be COOL.
>
>
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:07:27 -0700
From: "O'Connor"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Three Speed with Overdrive Problems

Jeff,
The shop manuals have the instructions on how to repair the overdrive.
When taking them apart, the instructions had a problem when I did mine. I
put it together differently than the instructions also. There isn't much
that can be bought new for them. I was able to have a machinist redo part
of it and I made the two spring retainers inside while buying the bushings
and seals from Ford. It would help to know the type of O/D that is there.
Is the ID tag still bolted on the case. It should read sosmething like
T85N-1A which is the Borg Warner Number and the Ford number would be C5T3C.
They are a lot trickier than a straight transmission. You can't get the
input shaft out the front like a regular transmission- it has to come out
the back. They are heavier too and you must take them out as a unit or
parts wil fall all over the floor. For used parts, try Fatsco
1-800-524-0485 ask for Mike or Blumenthal's 405-232-9557.

Tim F100 SWB, 352 Custom Cab with O/D and Power Steering

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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:24:52 -0400
From: David Henderson
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Web Page

List Members:

I have finally put up a web page with pictures of both Brownie and the 300 I6 I
rebuilt this summer. You can get there by either following the link at the end
of my signature and then clicking the Brownie link, or by clicking
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dasc.vt.edu/henderson/ford.html . For those of you who have always
wondered why I am like I am, go to my main page. It should be self explanatory
;^). Thanks and I would appreciate any and all comments on the page, the
truck, and the engine.

Dave H

- --
_
_| ~~. David Henderson
\, _} DHenders VT.Edu
\( Gig 'em Aggies! '93

Currently at:
Interdepartmental Genetics Program
2010 Litton Reaves Hall
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540)231-4773
(540)231-5014
DHenders VT.Edu
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dasc.vt.edu/henderson/dhenderson.html
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:46:37 -0700
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 67' power disc upgrade woes

Douglas Trotter wrote:

>
>  Will the F-350 spindles fit on my 67’ I beams?

This someone else will have to handle. My best guess would be to also use
the F-350 I beams

>  Do I have to use the F-350 Vacuum Booster & Master Cylinder
> and, if so, will it fit my 67’ firewall & pedal assembly?
>

You don't have to use the F350 booster and m/c but the will work fine. The
F-150 M/C might have a larger bore so with F-250 brakes you might not have
as much peddle travel but if you stick with the F-350 stuff you will need
it.

>  The F-350 unit certainly is larger that the F-250 unit, does
> this mean that it’s better? Do I even want to try to fit it to my
> truck? My girlfriend tells me not to worry, size doesn’t matter…but
> she drives a Honda.

I'll leave that one up to you and your girlfriend ;)

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net
99 Contour
63 F-100 4x4
43 GPW


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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:49:59 -0400
From: "Ted and Sarah Freeman"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 427 block casting

Something else to watch out for....a lot of the marine engines had a reverse
rotation.

I guess a change of the cam shaft, dist and oil pump would take care of
that, though.

The applications listed below are what I have as well. I believe that only
the 427 offered the cross bolted mains, though. But again, the Marine
application could play by different rules.

I hope it turns out well for you!

Later,

- -Ted

- -----Original Message-----
From: Danger
To: 61-79-list ford-trucks.com
Date: Monday, August 30, 1999 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 427 block casting


>> The casting number on the
>> block is C5AE-A. I was unable to check the stroke length becuase we did
>not
>> have any tools. Does anybody have info on the casting number?
>..........
>
> I'm looking at a chart which shows 3 different possibilities....
>
>1) 330HD/3.875 Bore
>
>2) 1965 390/4.05 Bore
>
>3) 1965 427/4.23 Bore top-oiler
>
>..... There is no mention about cross bolt mains
>
>
>Danger
>
>
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>

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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:51:14 -0700
From: Jeff Harsha
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - three speed with overdrive problems

I have one on my 69 f100 which I just got working after much fooling around. It
works very well once you figure it out. What can I do to help?

JJJJJGRANT aol.com wrote:

> a relative has a 1971 f100 swb with a three speed trans with a knob on the
> dash to engage the overdrive, he needs repairs on the overdrive unit, but
> can't find anyone that knows anything about the unit, he says its factory
> ford, i figured it may be a dana/spicer piece, but he says its part of the
> tranny.
> if anyone knows anything about these units please let me know.
>
> thanks, jeff grant
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:03:34 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 427 block casting

In a message dated 8/30/99 4:56:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
oldparts ford-trucks.com writes:

>


Dont forget the 390 GT.


Darrell Duggan

74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:00:16 -0400
From: Ken Payne
Subject: FTE 61-79 - RE: Brake Bleeding

Forwarded for: "Peters, Gary (G.R.)"

Some of you are sending me private messages in respons to queries on the
list which, IMHO, should be aired on the list so I ch*nge the address
when I feel it is appropriate so all can share the inf*rmation. If
anyone objects to this, please let me know in your post (each time) and
I will honor your request for privacy :-) Sometimes I make a general
reply, meaning to ch*nge the address and forget to change it, please
forgive me when I do that :-) My reasons for this are both to inform
others who may have the same question but also to air my wisdom in case
I make a mistake and someone, more knowledgeable than myself, catches it
and corrects me :-) (Yes, Virginia, I am learning too :-))

The "Residual" valve in the proportioning valve keeps the pads against
the rotor so that immediately after applying the brakes the wheels
should be fairly hard to turn by hand but after bouncing over a few
bumps the forces involved will tap the pads back just a tad so they are
not quite so tight, otherwise you would burn up the rotors. Without the
residual valve you will have to pump the brakes like a mad man to get
enough pedal to safely stop at speed and even then you will be
dangerously close to bottoming out on the floor. There are probably
degrees of this depending on whether or not the valve is doing
"something". Sitting on blocks in the shop will not give you a true
picture of how the this valve is working because in use it relys on some
interaction with the pavement irregularities to "adjust" the pads. On
the road, if this is not working, you will have to pump the brakes up a
lot more than you will in the shop because they will recede more in use
and thus will have to be moved more to get results (more pumps).

The proportioning valve (rear portion) biases the input pressure so that
the rear is not getting as much as the front. It uses the resistance of
the front and rear, along with a balancing spring via ports in the valve
to regulate this. This part of the valve rarely causes trouble due to
its design.

Air can be trapped in the MC between the bleed holes and outlets and
with it tilted the bubbles stay out of reach of any passages. When you
bring the MC level the air travels along the top of the cylinder and
eventually finds either the bleed hole or the outlet and so can be
pushed out in either direction.

One thing gravity bleeding will not do is move a trapped bubble which is
why short, quick jabs at the pedal are necessary to get it all out and
why bench bleeding of the MC prior to installation is usually required
to get it all out. The problem with bench bleeding it that if you let
the fluid drain out in the process of installing it, the bench bleeding
was in vain.

The most effective way I've found to bleed MC's is to use short tubes in
the outlets and have them bend back into the resivoir with ends
submerged. With new systems with the angled MC's you have to use a
little ingenuity to get them level for best results. I honestly don't
understand the concept of tilted MC's if the bleeders and ports are not
set up to work with the design but the book says even these have to be
level to ensure getting all the air out so.....??

I have all 78's with level, cast iron MC's so it's a piece a cake for me
and I haven't had to actually do much with the newer ones so have no
real first hand experience with tbem, just repeating what my video and
instruction guide that came with my bleeder kit said.

- --
Michigan, Pot Hole Jumping,
78 Bronco Loving, Gary
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.thewowfactor.com/bigbroncos/detail.cfm?detailid=167
- --

> > 5..if you still have mushy brakes it could be the retension valve
> > in the proportioning valve body allowing the calipers to receed
> > too far (turned out to be my problem)
>
> If it is very hard to turn the rotors with my hands, wheel and tire
> off, can I be sure that this is not my problem? I am on my second
> proportioning valve, one from a boneyard and one brand new one from
> Ford.
>
> > 7..ALL MC'S MUST BE LEVEL, EVEN THE TILTED ONES, to get the air
> > out so some vehicles actually have to be unevenly jacked up to
> > get it done right.
>
> would be pushed out the lines. So my question is, why does it need
> to be level?

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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:00:07 -0500
From: "Brett L. Habben"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 300 swirl piston

Darrell,
Have you gotten any more info on those 300 pistons with the swirl? I tore
my 300 down and with one torched piston and some cylinder wear it looks
like it's time for a rebore$$$$...
Do you know anything about the different combustion chamber shapes on 300
heads? The later EFI heads have a heart shaped combustion chamber that I
am guessing goes with those pistons you mention. Which heads do you
have? I would be willing to call the machinist on the phone if you don't
know the specifics.
Any info, as usual, is greatly appreciated.
Adios,
Brett
Super75cab


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:23:42 -0700
From: "Christeen Bradley"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Clutch Adjustment

OK Guys, I feel like Ian! In the last week, I've had the voltage
regulator,brake lights, brake line and now a clutch adjust problem. All on
different days. Ahhh, the clutch. My clutch with the pedal fully released,
barely keeps the clutch engaged. If I depress the pedal even a half inch,
the clutch disengages. I've tried to adjust the clutch rod both ways but it
either gets worse ( rod longer) or no change (rod shorter). Is my clutch or
related components bad? Right now, the contact point is still real high on
the pedal, but I can fry the tires.??????

Confused in Portland

Thanks in advance,
Scott
1966 F-100 351C Granny low 4-speed

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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:49:39 -0700
From: Don or Bub
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 1972 ford f-100 engines-302

i own a 72 f-100 that has a 302 c.i.d.
close to 300'000. my engine has seen better days and is going to sleep
for good soon. i was wondering what is a good place for reliable engines
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:00:46 -0500
From: Kevin Grabow
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 460 Carb Change

I want to change the 4 bbl carb on my 1979 460 with an Edelbrock
Performer Series. I purchased the carb and started to take inventory
on what needs to be done. I need to change the fuel pump because
the stock one has to much pressure and Edelbrock has just what I
need, surprise. I also need to re-route the fuel line and add an
adapter
to make my stock air cleaner fit and purchase a linkage kit.

I'm changing the carb because the current one needs to be re-built
every year and I think it's just worn out. Even after making all the
changes
the new Edelbrock will cost less than a new Holley from Ford. I don't
want a re-man carb, I want new.

Anyone have any experience in this area with the Edelbrock Performer
Series carb's and a 460? If I'm just inviting trouble I'll stick with
the stock carb. Thanks!

Kevin Grabow
1979 F250 460 2wd
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:32:34 -0700
From: Eric
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 1965-66 Inner fenders

I believe they are identical in the 65&66, but I recently discovered that
the 6cyl and V8 trucks use different radiator supports and inner fenders.
The differences in the rad supports will be obvious if you see them side by
side. However, the differences in the inners are not - have a look where
the inner meets the rad support at the bottom of the radiator. I'd be
interested in other opinions as I was quite puzzled by this when looking at
parts for my '66 V8 and saw they were not the same. Originally I surmised
that my Merc and other Canadian trucks had slightly different sheet metal,
but I now think otherwise.

Regards, Eric

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:28:26 -0500
From: "Jason & Kathy Kendrick"
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 427 block casting

JUMPINFORD aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/30/99 4:56:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> oldparts ford-trucks.com writes:
>
> >
>
> Dont forget the 390 GT.

Sorry, Darrell, only the 406 and 427 were offered with the crossbolted
mains. The 390 Gt was a plain jane 2 bolt block. The 406 had C2AE and
C3AE casting numbers.

Jason
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