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Subject: 61-79-list-digest V3 #241
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61-79-list-digest Sunday, July 11 1999 Volume 03 : Number 241



=======================================================================
Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1961-1979 Trucks and Vans
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In this issue:

Re: FTE 61-79 - How do I remove bed Bolts????
FTE 61-79 - FE Availability
FTE 61-79 - Hi all
FTE 61-79 - 67 mercury 1/2 ton FOR SALE
FTE 61-79 - Re: Emissions testing, etc.
FTE 61-79 - 78-79 Bronco prices ...
FTE 61-79 - Re: Looking at 74 Bronco Needs Help
FTE 61-79 - bed bolts
FTE 61-79 - rare NP435 ???
Re: FTE 61-79 - trannys
FTE 61-79 - Re: FE's and oil consumption
FTE 61-79 - Re: trannys
Re: FTE 61-79 - FE availability
FTE 61-79 - highboy power steering conversion kit
FTE 61-79 - Flood Fun
FTE 61-79 - speedometer cable swap?
FTE 61-79 - 435 Transmission Conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - Ford Country
Re: FTE 61-79 - 351M pistons in a 400M application?
Re: FTE 61-79 - 435 Transmission Conversion
Re: FTE 61-79 - trannys

=======================================================================

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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 05:43:57 EDT
From: TBeeee aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - How do I remove bed Bolts????

In a message dated 7/10/99 1:08:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mikepacheco uswest.net writes:

> There is an article in Classic truck magazine this month, looks like
> they used a torch !(August)

If the bolts are shot why not? I think someone mentioned concern of
cutting into the chassis with an acetylene torch. The best way to avoid this
is not to allow the torch to heat the chassis. The tip should be
concentrated on the precise area you wish to cut. With practice you can
easily score through just the nut and never even touch the threads on the
bolt. Then you'd use a chisel to pry the nut away from the bolt. This
allows you to recycle the bolts. What.....you don't have a torch? No
aresenal is complete without the poor-man's torch. A chisel and a BFH. Use
it to "crack" the nut by striking it at a 90 degree angle to the bolt. Crude
but very effective.

Stock Man
1967 Galaxie 500 Convertible (I need factory rims)
1967 F-250 FE 390 4wd
http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.hometown.aol.com/tbeeee
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 05:04:48 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - FE Availability

> What were the first and last years FE engines were put into trucks?

'65-'76. possibly a few early '77's.
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 05:14:32 -0500
From: ballingr ldd.net (William L. Ballinger)
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Hi all

> Hi, I've got a question. I have a '69 Ford truck with a 390 2bbl from "a
> car from 1972" I'm told. My father-in-law has owned this truck for its
> entire life. He's had 2 360's in it, the 390 is not the original engine.
> Could someone help me out with how to find a code on the engine block to
> determine what it really is? Thanks for your help.

They stopped using FE's in cars in 1970. You can get the rough vintage
of the engine from the casting numbers, but not the displacement. The
little tag on the intake is about it, it gets lost or the wrong one put
on pretty easily.
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 05:49:41 -0500
From: "commodore"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 67 mercury 1/2 ton FOR SALE

I found this and thought I would post it
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Johnny Bravo
Newsgroups: alt.autos.classic-trucks
Sent: Friday, July 09, 1999 7:21 PM
Subject: 1967 Mercury 1/2 ton


I have a 1967 Mercury 1/2 ton for sale. It's sound and running -- it's a
perfect project for someone looking to restore one. Mostly original parts.
$800 Canadian.

Saskatchewan, Canada cd.king home.com

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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:38:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: hodgson2 ix.netcom.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Emissions testing, etc.

List member "luxjo thecore.com" in a recent reply post really clarified what I meant to say in my
original post re registering your Ford truck in some other "performance friendly" state. The idea
is that this would be your "second home," you could even have an official lease for a nominal
amount (if needed) to prove your connection with the out-of-state address. [Humm, this sounds like
a possible new enterprenureship opportunity! ;-)]

As for the Kyoto treaty, between now and 2008 a lot of things are bound to change, and the big
money interests in this country won't allow our economy to be wrecked by any mere treaty; the U.S.
Senate ratifies and negates treaties, and Senators are too easily bought and sold for that to
happen.

Direct FTE content: What year did Ford quit using the two-piece 16" wheels (split rim) on F-250
trucks?

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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:04:10 -0400
From: "Serian"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 78-79 Bronco prices ...

> As some of you may know, I've been looking for a '78-79 Bronco over
the
>past few months. I've found one that I really like and seems decent, but I
>just want to know if the price is right. It's a '79 Bronco Ranger XLT.
>Rebuilt 351/C6.
> The truck had 141,000 on it and the motor had only about 40K on the
> rebuild. The guy
>wants $6000 firm...I think it's a little high with the lack of interior and
>needed body work. I figure you are the experts, so what would something
>like this go for...or what do trucks like this bring. I'm located in Mass,
>just south of boston if that makes any difference.
>
>Thanks alot,
>
>Dan

I got mine locally here in northeastern Pennsylvania from
a private owner ... virtually rust-free, strong 351M engine,
4 speed manual transmission (T-18), NP205 transfer case.
needed a rear main seal and a good cleaning of the bell
housing and flywheel, new clutch disc and pressure plate;
'bout 80k miles, redone interior, and factory new tailgate.
It cost me $700.

Personally, I consider 4 digits on *any* kind of vehicle to be
a bit pricy, especially when that first digit isnt a 1, or on really
nice vehicles, a 2. :-P

(btw: those modern, flimsy, underbuilt and overcomputerized
pieces of shtuff, definitely do not qualify as a "really nice vehicle")

$6000 ? Not unless you *really* like it, and it is in better than
factory-new condition ... maybe with some high perf modifications.

(at least, thats my opinion on the subject ...)



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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 07:02:11 PDT
From: "H. Lee Purvis"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: Looking at 74 Bronco Needs Help

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:58:37 -0400
From: Joe & Jen DeLaurentis
I'd say grab it NOW!!!! Autokrafters, Wildhorses 4X4, Jame Duff, and others
have body parts that you can weld in place. There are fiberglass tubs
avaiable as well. Like you said, the PS and auto alone are worth that.
Wildhorses wants about $1200 for an orginal PS setup and Advance Adapters
wants about $500 for just the C4 tailshaft.
Lee
- ---------------------------

Subject: FTE 61-79 - Looking at 74 Bronco Needs Help

Hi group,

I am looking at a 74 Bronco with and Auto/302 and power steering, its
only down side
is the heavy rust in the drivers side rocker and floor...Is this a truck
to fix or stay away???I know the auto/ power steering is worth the $1000
there asking..
Like to here from you
Joe



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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:11:16 -0400
From: "Serian"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - bed bolts

> Group, what is the trick to removing bed bolts???
> I know my truck has 30 yrs of dirt and rust
> but there is no straight shot at the bolts with air tools???
> Is there a trick or special tool???
> Joe

The trick and special tool I used to take the rusted-to-heck
bed off my '83 F150 was to cut the bed out from around the
bolts, then hammer a 1 1/4" ID, 1/2" thickness, 5' long
galvanized steel pipe from the hardware store over the bolt,
then rock it until it breaks.

I don't think those engineers at the factory ever designed
those things to come off the same way they went on ...
maybe the trick is to get one of the designing engineers
to take 'em out with tools from around the house ... :-P


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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:15:54 -0400
From: "Serian"
Subject: FTE 61-79 - rare NP435 ???

> I'll just see about rebuilding my NP435, or look for a used one.
> They are very rare. Call the junk yards, and their response is
> pretty quick, "nope".

Hmm ... how close to northeastern Pennsylvania are you ?
I know of a salvage yard around here that has lots of 'em.



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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:23:04 -0700
From: Don Grossman
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - trannys

Mark Flynn wrote:

>
> But; I'm ready to give up, cause I'm not ready to spend $1200 on one.
> I'll just see about rebuilding my NP435, or look for a used one. They
> are very rare. Call the junk yards, and their response is pretty quick,
> "nope".
>
> Mark

They shouldn't be that rare, although "rare" means different things in
different parts of the country. The best trucks to find them in are from the
early 80's 2 wheel drives and the cost should be more in the range of $250
for a full service yard and $150 at a UPI. That is unless you need the 4x4
version.

Not really sure where you are at but there are some around my area N.
Cali. I can't find a Dana 60 front axle even with $1500 cash in my pocket.

The T-18 should be a direct bolt in as long as the input shaft has the same
number of splines.

Laters

- --
Don Grossman
duckdon pacific.net
99 Contour
63 F-100 4x4


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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:03:53 -0700
From: Vogt Family
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: FE's and oil consumption

On Fri, 9 Jul 1999, am14 daimlerchrysler.com wrote:
>
> All you folks talking about replacing your valve seals and still consuming large
> quantities of oil, this is something for you to study about.
>
> All FE's I've been around are notorious for wearing the valve guides.....
> Especially those that have a high lift cam and stiffer than factory valve
> springs. The only way I found to "Cure" the problem back when I was racing
> them, was to have Bronze valve guides installed, and this was very expensive
> then and probably cost Megga bucks by now. (this was in the very early 70's or
> maybe the very late 60's) I had a set of '67 427 heads on my 428SCJ and I had
> them done. Can't remember the exact cost, but seems like it was about $40 per
> guide. That works out to be $640 for a set, and seems to be about what it cost
> me. This did not include any valves - just guides and the work to install them
> and ream them to size.

This must have been a new technology or something back then because the
price has certainly come down since then. However, the teacher of my
engine machining class, a man who knows more about this sort of stuff
than anyone I have ever met, is not too supportive of bronze valve guide
inserts. He claims that though bronze is a good material for a
conventional bearing, that in valve guides it tends to halfway embed the
grit and wear at the valve stem. The guide life is long, the valve life
is not.

A better choice is a chilled iron guide, it goes in the same hole but is
iron all the way through. I know this doesn't sound like much of an
upgrade from an integral guide in the iron head, but the grade of iron
used to make the guide is higher than that used to pour the head. Now
that I read back and notice the "racing application" I should also say
that one advantage of the bronze guide is lower friction, if you are
concerned about squeezing every drop of horsepower out.

> Let me also say that even though I've seen some pretty sloppy valve to valve
> guide clearances, I've never known this to really cause oil consumption in the
> amounts you guys seem to be experiencing. The seals always did a good job of
> controling this for me, even on some pretty sloppy clearances. On the FE's I
> would look elsewhere for excessive oil consumption.

I haven't seen the original question, but had to throw my hat in at the
valve guide issue, but do they have seals at the exhaust? For a while
some people considered it unnecessary because there was no vacuum in the
exhaust but did not take into account the venturi effect of the gases
flowing bu the lower end of the guide or the funnel-shaped wear of the
upper end.

Birken
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:15:56 -0700
From: Vogt Family
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Re: trannys

On Fri, 09 Jul 1999, Mark Flynn wrote:
>
> > Rev. is the same over and back for NP435 and T-18, at least for
> > 78/79 vintage. Neither has synchronized first. T-19 does, but have heard
> > that some T-19's don't have granny first.
> >
>
> Yep; all the specs I've seen, show that T-19s don't have a granny. Which
> is fine by me. Don't want a granny, don't need a granny. Even when I
> drove big trucks years ago, I almost never, ever used the 1st gear,
> (although that was a 10 speed). Unless you're rockcrawling; there's no
> need, which is why I was looking for a T-19.
>
> But; I'm ready to give up, cause I'm not ready to spend $1200 on one.
> I'll just see about rebuilding my NP435, or look for a used one. They
> are very rare. Call the junk yards, and their response is pretty quick,
> "nope".

They sure as heck aren't rare around here (No. Ca), where are you
located? If I was in school right now I could round one up for you in a
flash but that's an hour's drive away from here. Even the local yards
ought to have some, though.

Still, think about rebuilding it, because if you get a used one, who
knows...did you ever think about a T-18? I don't think you'd know the
difference. Are they interchangable as far as driveshafts, anybody?

Birken
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:35:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: barry mitchell
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - FE availability

This disucsion kind of links up to a question I have. My son has a 64
F100 great motor with a dead 6cyl. He also has a 390 from a wrecked 76
F150. Since the first year they for the The FE in these trucks was 65
will the mounts retro fit into the 64 or does he need a swapor maybe
some garage engineering. Thanks.
===
Barry Mitchell-Many projects going on:
V8 Pinto (mine)
429 Torino swap (a buddy's)
76 Ford 4X4 460 swap (same buddy's)
64 F100 390 swap (son's)
63 unibody converted to 4X4 (stepson's)
82 F250 rebuild (mine)
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?

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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:07:37 EDT
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - highboy power steering conversion kit

I found a place in Denver that supplies an integral steering box, shaft, drag
link etc....to replace the Mickey ram/sensor setup. They call it a "kit". I
guess you can install it yourself or else they will. It mounts on the outside
of the frame, and it works real nice (I drove a converted 74)....it looks
like a good solution for someone who doesn't want to chase around for
parts....I think it uses a Dodge steering box...the place is B&H Used Pickup
Parts (303) 791-8211.

Even though I'm going to still convert over with the 78-79 Ford box, I
figured I would pass this on....

CJ
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:21:22 EDT
From: JUMPINFORD aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - Flood Fun

Well we lucked out last night, no more rain. But we did get to have our fun.
We used a closed section of road that still had a foot of silty mud on it,
and had the unofficial Las Vegas Mud Drags. My friends, I think If I wasn't
so attached to this town, Id leave the desert for the swamp. We were havin
all kinds of fun out there. Hit the mud at 40, bog ya right down to 20, but
I could roost mud farther than anyone out there! Bein 2wd, it got a lil
squirly in the turn around, but I did all right. Only got stuck once. I got
hung up on a sand bar hidden by the water. Imagine, a sand bar, in the
center of Las Vegas. Oh well just thought Id share. I'll see ya folks
around.

Darrell Duggan
74 F-350 "Tweety"
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 17:04:29 EDT
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - speedometer cable swap?

I'm putting a 205 transfer case (married) under my 69 F-100 4x4 (swapping out
the little Dana 21). Looks like I'm going to have trouble with a speedometer
cable since the newer ones have a plastic "snap on" kind of dealy on the
instrument cluster end, and I'm pretty sure my 69 speedo has a "screw on"
dealy receptacle....

Don't think the old one will work in the new transfer case since it will be
too short....

Anyone dealt with this, or maybe had a custom one made???

CJ
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 17:04:22 EDT
From: BDIJXS aol.com
Subject: FTE 61-79 - 435 Transmission Conversion

Just a little info for those who might be interested. All 435's are not the
same. The older model (at least the 69-74) in the F-100 4x4's with the
married Dana 21's are different from the later model (I think 76-79) with the
married 205's. The bolt pattern on the back and the output shafts are
different. If you want to upgrade to the new 205, you'll most likely need to
use a newer 435 as well, as well as the newer adapter....

I still haven't gotten the transmission mount details worked out, but I will
once I get the engine in....probably have to custome-fabricate something...

CJ
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 20:32:10 -0500
From: Michael
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - Ford Country

Where are all of these early ford trucks for sale? We seem to have a
shortage of them in Oklahoma.

Kathy & Christine wrote:

> After taking a drive into town today, I've changed my mind about selling
> my F-100. Within a space of about 8 blocks, I saw 3 late 60's - early
> '70's Ford trucks with For Sale signs on them... One was a F-250 4x4,
> midnight blue.... gorgeous... one was primer black lifted 4x4 w/ roll
> bar... one was a cherry red flareside, it just sparkled... I thought
> about how mine could look if I can just be patient and not freak out
> about money. Then get this... just 2 miles down the road from me sits a
> '69, blue and white, hardly no rust, no dents, just a little mossy from
> sitting out uncared for.. and its sign said "make offer." I bet it
> doesn't run, either, and some lucky person's gonna grab it up for next
> to nothing, and turn it into a beauty.... all of those, and I've already
> got what I want sitting not 30' away from this desk and paid for, to
> boot. Am I nuts, wanting to sell it??? Yes, I concluded, I was nuts,
> but *whew* I got over it within a couple days! Thanks, and keep all the
> good info coming :)
>
> Kathy
>
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:03:01 -0500
From: Michael
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 351M pistons in a 400M application?

Try a stroker piston from Keith Black. Almost the same but the pin height is
much shorter.

Bill Beyer wrote:

> 351M pistons + 400 crank = lots of bad noises when you start up the engine.
> The 351M crankshaft has a stroke of only 3.50 vs. the 400 which has a stroke
> of 4.00. Since they both use the same rod & block, to make up the difference
> they make the compression height of the piston different for the 351M from
> the 400. Bottom line the 351M piston would stick out of the block at TDC and
> hammer into the head to the tune of beaucoup $.
>
> "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brent Cole
> To: Truck List
> Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 3:09 PM
> Subject: FTE 61-79 - 351M pistons in a 400M application?
>
> >I have noticed, looking for pistons for my 400M rebuild, that there seems
> to
> >be some difference between the 351M and 400M pistons. I have learned about
> >using the 351C pistons in a M application but what are the differences
> >between the 351M piston and the 400M piston? Reason I am asking is forged
> >flat top pistons are available for the 351M engine (but not the 400, as far
> >as I know). If they will swap, the added cost of a forged piston might
> >offset the cost of bushing the rod for the different size wrist pin of the
> >351C pistion. Any info?
>
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:25:46 -0700
From: MC
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - 435 Transmission Conversion

Man, am I glad I read that! I have been wanting to convert my Dana
21 to a 205 ever since I got my truck but either couldn't find one, or
couldn't afford it when I did. I just got done replacing the original
Dana with an identical one out of my parts truck about an hour ago. I
was at the beach last weekend and did just fine in 2wd all weekend until
I intentionally dug a hole with the back tires. When I put it in 4wd,
the front tires instantly dug in, so I put it in reverse and tried
backing out. The tranny popped out of gear once, but the second pop was
the transfer case exploding. It is literally in two pieces! I didn't
want to put in another Dana, but I don't have the parts to convert to a
205 at the moment and I wanted to drive my truck.

If you have any more info on this swap, please send it my way. One
of these days I will actually get it done. I'm running the same set up
as you: 1970 F-100 4x4, NP435 w/married Dana 21. Thanks.

- --
Matt Cozad
When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.

[||||||]=[|00|]=(|¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_¯_)


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Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:20:43 EDT
From: IanBoss69 aol.com
Subject: Re: FTE 61-79 - trannys

In a message dated 7/10/99 11:27:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,....

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